Jail Time on ECRP...

[isBrainDed]

Just now, Krish Roshan said:

Playing a crim solo is completely different to in a gang, I have been followed/questioned by officers just for being in colours (even had one that aliased my face for being part of a gang and questioned me) it really does stop me from going to places while being a criminal , i stopped going to the pier due to PD just checking my charges and searching my vehicle it really does get to a point where its boring, getting a .50 getting chased by PD/SD rinse repeat

I played in a gang and was part of a big gang war and many shootouts with cops.

And yeah, of course cops target colours. It would be stupid not to

[KaetoKit]

+1, AT LEAST lower them a bit.

Even with the varied opinions said on this thread and around the community, we all gotta agree that the times are indeed long in general and that it is possible to both shorten these jail times while still giving a crim rper reasonable and effective punishments for their committed crimes.

[Freclan]

I think a threshold multiplier should be introduced for jail times, say if you reach 3 hours in time there is a multiplier that decreases your time in jail for charges added that go over the 3 hours. Say if you get 2 counts of murder and felony evasion, the two counts of murder will take you to 3 hours in jail, then a multiplier comes into play and decreases the felony evasion from one hour down to 30 minutes. So the multiplier would be at 0.5x and would only come into play once the 3 hour threshold is met. I think this is a good compromise between the two opinions.

[DaMasterSplinter]

2 hours ago, isBrainDed said:

I played in a gang and was part of a big gang war and many shootouts with cops.

I don't wanna be toxic or anything, but crim back in the days is not 1% close to what it is right now. ( From server rules to new In-game stuff  )

[josh weathers]

At one point when I did a bank robbery I spent 8 hours irl for the charges after all it was a hostage situation. But u should not have to sit in jail for 8 hours that’s way to long so big+1 on this

[Alllbyyy]

9 hours ago, isBrainDed said:

Or you know, maybe they don't try to always win and surrender and they only get the gun charge? 

We see someone with a gun, we approach them as we have too, at that point its THEIR decision if they will take a loss and surrender for lesser charge, or if they will try and win and risk getting more time, but at that point that's on them and not on PD.  

 

I seen multiple people who have started to understand that, they will rather comply with us and surrender for lesser time.

It is not about surrendering we roleplay as a criminal, we shouldn't surrender. But the fact is that I wanna see a change to lower the sentence, I didnt say to lower to a point that everyone do crimes and kill cops. I still want that hype energy every time I evade. The main thing is people dont want to go to jail for 10hours off a situation that last 10 minutes that is the main thing. 

[Roderick]

6 hours ago, Liam Frankenstein said:

You just went straight into one point and left out the most important parts, It's not only about arrests/pursuits. I mean I was in situation days ago where I risked everything to save a gang member of mine and took cop as hostage but I was still hesitating whether I should do that or not [ saving an important gang member ] just because of the jailtime I would receive. There are many roleplay situations that are being avoided not just pursuits/arrests because of the jailtime is way too long. I am not saying it can hugely improve the roleplay but I believe it can add some more fun and rp experiences to everyone. That's why I think this suggestion should be looked at and taken into consideration. 

And that is a problem why, exactly? Taking a LEO hostage is not something any criminal would do without any form of hesitation, realistically speaking. Actions have and should always have consequences, jail time included.

OT: I do think jail time for some commonly occuring charges would be pretty okay, i.e. Felony evading from 60 to 45 or something like that. I do not think a cap is a great idea. In the past, when there was such a cap, it became evident that quite a number of people would perform unrealistic actions as they knew there was a prison cap anyway.

[Dimja]

26 minutes ago, Roderick said:

And that is a problem why, exactly? Taking a LEO hostage is not something any criminal would do without any form of hesitation, realistically speaking. Actions have and should always have consequences, jail time included.

OT: I do think jail time for some commonly occuring charges would be pretty okay, i.e. Felony evading from 60 to 45 or something like that. I do not think a cap is a great idea. In the past, when there was such a cap, it became evident that quite a number of people would perform unrealistic actions as they knew there was a prison cap anyway.

The problem is not the fact that you are being charged and face time, but the problem is the amount of time...

[Jbacon]

11 hours ago, Liam Frankenstein said:

That's the point isn't it? people comply and surrender just because they're too afraid to spend 10hrs on jail while crim rp and gangsters shouldn't be about surrendering to cops at all. It's kind of rivalry so I believe reducing the jailtime would improve the crim rp, give PD/SD even more pursuits and roleplay to do around

 

massive +1 to the suggestion. 

PD has enough pursuits to follow, and pursuits and shoot outs are not what I would consider RP situations, as it ends up PD rps with them selves for the bulk of the situation. I am not an advovate for ACTION RP, I would much rather patrol around and hand out a speeding ticket or talk to civilians at highend.

 

9 hours ago, Liam Frankenstein said:

You just went straight into one point and left out the most important parts, It's not only about arrests/pursuits. I mean I was in situation days ago where I risked everything to save a gang member of mine and took cop as hostage but I was still hesitating whether I should do that or not [ saving an important gang member ] just because of the jailtime I would receive. There are many roleplay situations that are being avoided not just pursuits/arrests because of the jailtime is way too long. I am not saying it can hugely improve the roleplay but I believe it can add some more fun and rp experiences to everyone. That's why I think this suggestion should be looked at and taken into consideration. 

Hostage situations are one of the most dreaded RP situations cops find themselves in because the opposing side offers nothing in exchange for everything. Meaning you drive away we get a hostage that is generally involved in the crime and is getting paid later.

 

7 hours ago, Krish Roshan said:

Huge +1 

Not trying to be rude or anything but have you played on a criminal before? Being in DOC is very boring and it really does stop you from experiencing other RP opportunities the fines are annoying but its realistic but the time for what your doing is extremely boring and every time ive been in DOC all i do is put on a movie and tab in and out to move around.

It has been a dogs day since i have been active on my criminal, but I have served a 12hour sentence where I didn't have enough time to watch a movie because I was generating rp, rather then relying on other players to create it for me. I had created a prison gang, where we were hustling other inmates for a % of their stamps they earned. We had guards that we would negotiate with for favors, in exchange for favors. TBH it was a good RP experience, mind you this relays on others wanting to RP and not afk for it to work.

 

 

7 hours ago, DaMasterSplinter said:

at people should start to understand that they need to surrender, why? Why am I supposed to surrender if I have a gun on me and we both know it's hard to get guns around. Have you ever seen criminals pull over and comply to pd of he has murder of a gov employee on his record. 

 

Yes i have and frequently do.

[Alllbyyy]

13 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

PD has enough pursuits to follow, and pursuits and shoot outs are not what I would consider RP situations, as it ends up PD rps with them selves for the bulk of the situation. I am not an advovate for ACTION RP, I would much rather patrol around and hand out a speeding ticket or talk to civilians at highend.

 

Hostage situations are one of the most dreaded RP situations cops find themselves in because the opposing side offers nothing in exchange for everything. Meaning you drive away we get a hostage that is generally involved in the crime and is getting paid later.

 

It has been a dogs day since i have been active on my criminal, but I have served a 12hour sentence where I didn't have enough time to watch a movie because I was generating rp, rather then relying on other players to create it for me. I had created a prison gang, where we were hustling other inmates for a % of their stamps they earned. We had guards that we would negotiate with for favors, in exchange for favors. TBH it was a good RP experience, mind you this relays on others wanting to RP and not afk for it to work.

 

 

Yes i have and frequently do.

I made the suggestion about JAIL TIME, i didnt make this suggestion for PDvsCRIM. DOC rp has evolved in the last year. Please remain on the topic.

[IAmTurtle]

First off aren’t jail times ic? And if so treated that way.

 

secondly I think that jail time is fine. Even after spending 4+ hours on multiple times over the years, it comes down to how you spend your jail time that counts not how long you have it.

[Alllbyyy]

1 hour ago, IAmTurtle said:

First off aren’t jail times ic? And if so treated that way.

 

secondly I think that jail time is fine. Even after spending 4+ hours on multiple times over the years, it comes down to how you spend your jail time that counts not how long you have

it comes to a point that it is not ic anymore, it comes to a point that you get punished oocly to roleplay as a crim.

 

and what do you mean with “ if jail time is ic, then treated that way”.How do you want me to treated? You want me to make an IA report?

Edited August 7, 2021 by AlbertoPanchino

[isBrainDed]

 

5 hours ago, AlbertoPanchino said:

it comes to a point that it is not ic anymore, it comes to a point that you get punished oocly to roleplay as a crim.

 

and what do you mean with “ if jail time is ic, then treated that way”.How do you want me to treated? You want me to make an IA report?

PD/SD doesn't do anything regarding penal code, we can make recommendations, but its commissioners who change it in the end.

So technically you can take it IC, would be stupid but thats another story.

[Killa]

Massive +1

[pasha9]

+1 

 

[bob karlsson]

+1 

[ChrisBlunt]

+1

Edited August 15, 2021 by ChrisBlunt

[ChrisBlunt]

On 8/6/2021 at 12:31 PM, DaMasterSplinter said:

I would like to start by thanking @AlbertoPanchino on this thread as it is really needed.

So first of all Jason and Brainded both gave only 2 examples about situations but we both know that there is a million other situations that can happen. 

To start with Jason, I do believe that some people might abuse the cap but that does no mean you gota give the man 7 hours. You are saying don't stay in the area of a shootout for longer then 15 mins no one does that. You say that not each situation should end in a shootout true, because wasting bullets on PD is useless you are just losing more money and if you get injured rip with your jail time. In the end we would like to give more rp, cause it does limit your rp cause you be thinking no I should not do that cause it gives me and extra hour in DOC. 

Now to respond to Brainded, you believe that people should start to understand that they need to surrender, why? Why am I supposed to surrender if I have a gun on me and we both know it's hard to get guns around. Have you ever seen criminals pull over and comply to pd of he has murder of a gov employee on his record. 

 

To make it more clear, we ALL know some people just add charges just to give you a longer sentence and if the officer does not like you... You can rip at Doc for a good time. 

Let me give an example, I am on my bike and I get pulled over for reckless as I am going 175, that's the first charge here 20 mins, I have on me an illegal .50 that's 1 hour in addition. I don't want to go to jail for 1 hour and lose my gun cause personally I lose all my weapons to PD. I decide to take the race, if I evaded, I secured the 1 hour from the felony evading. While evading I will defo be driving like a crazy man to be able to escape, there you go felony public endangerment +1 hour. They gave me demands to pull over I did not, +35 mins for failure to comply. I end up getting rammed by someone else and I go to jail, +10 minutes for wearing a mask. In total for evading and not losing my gun I will be going to jail for 4hours 5 mins. And that's if I did not have a heavy with attachments. 

 

Now let's talk about the factors that while evading make your thing way more harder. 

You are evading in a sports car, you have multiple cruisers behind you, a t20 and a heli, maybe a couple of 8f drafters. if you are not a good driver/ have good fps. I will be praying for you. 

You are evading on a bike, you will have for sure 1 hakuchou behind you a heli and couple of cruiser. From past experience, we saw PD chasing someone on a bf with 3 bfs 1 hakuchou and 1 traffic bike ( https://streamable.com/j2xe91 ) . All that for just one bike like come on, you might say you can report through IA icly but how  would a criminal know pd regulation if he can't access them. 

Let's not mention those 3 black akumas at La Mesa Precinct where some of people will be using them to be able to keep up with the bikes. Or the drag that some officers be using cause the hakuchou can't keep up with a drag. 

Finally, you can't expect a criminal that is know for killing cops to pull over and surrender like a good boy, that's against his Character's RP. 

I would say rather than keeping:

the gun charge at 1 hour it should be made to 35 mins 

The evading charge at 1 hour should be made to 45 mins 

The public endangerment at 1 hour should be made to 45 mins 

The reckless operation at 20 mins to 10 mins the same as the camera

The failure to comply should be at 15 mins 

The face concealment I find it a stupid charge and it should be made to 5 mins

Now for the murder, I would say it can stay at 1 hour and if any kind of other murder charge is added rather than adding 1 hour the next charge should add 20 mins. 

Example: attempted murder of a gov employee - - > 1 hour + murder of a gov employee - - > +20 mins. Or the opposite. 

Cause PD sometimes just add an accessory to murder for all the people on scene cause they were on the scene. 

About the fines:

I find it weird that you get accessory to attempted murder of a gov employee, that charges is like 45 mins and if you read it, means nothing but you pay 14k fines. I believe if the charge is lowered with anything like attempted or accessory the fines should go down. 

Thanks for reading this reply and I hope everyone understand our point of view. 

 

Jules. 

+1

[Havana]

if youre gonna murder a bunch of cops your character should never see the light of day again, yet the day after you can get out and act like nothing happened. thats the unrealistic part.

If i can wait 45 minutes for my truck to load and then another 45 to get unloaded for a couple grand, you can wait 2 hours after murdering someone and running from the cops/

Edited August 16, 2021 by Havana

[ArcAngel]

I agree somewhat with this thread.

I feel on one hand you should face consequences for your actions, but on the other hand, it's not fun for anyone to be in jail for 6-7 hours. I've seen someone get 12 which is excessive.

I feel like charge times should still stand as they are but there should be a cap of 4 hours for consecutive jail sentences.
So if someone get 10 Felony evasions, they should get 4 hours max regardless.

This is a community that is supposed to be fun for ALL who play, whether legal or criminal. 
It's 10x harder to be a criminal, if we want to keep the ratio fair and balanced there needs to be some give for criminals.

Perhaps a compromise that only certain charges are exempt from the cap,
I.E Murder
Modifiers involving LEO's Such as battery of a gov. employee, attempted murder of a gov, employee.
 

Edited August 16, 2021 by arcangel

[Trevor Zelias]

On 8/6/2021 at 12:15 AM, jason said:

There was a cap a while back.

Players would reach the cap then do anything and everything they wanted to because everything after that cap had virtually no consequences. They'd literally reach cap off of reckless operations and a felony evasion charge then just get into massive shootouts, rack up 7 murder charges, and have no consequences for it.

Change your methods, lower the severity of your crimes, or don't get caught.

This makes sense fully, but one thing that makes no sense is the suspension of licensing. Since it is 2-3 days IRL time and we get jailed from 15 mins to 16 hours I think. Seeing the suspensions and such should be looked over a bit and changed with hours instead of days. and make it so people that do get arrested for driving without it and such gets added more hours every time and that it pauses while in either jail/prison and then when they are out it starts going down. This is a game about driving GTA is like 90% of it and same goes for RP servers its like 85% driving then and such. So 2-3 days OOCly for me seems a lot.

[jason]

That doesn't stop you from driving or being driven around. You can also take this issue up with the commissioners and get a lot of support from the community to back your complaint. 99% of things people don't like with charges and government policies can be solved IC if you just put the time and effort into it.

[Destuin]

42 minutes ago, jason said:

That doesn't stop you from driving or being driven around. You can also take this issue up with the commissioners and get a lot of support from the community to back your complaint. 99% of things people don't like with charges and government policies can be solved IC if you just put the time and effort into it.

I presume the commissioners then are voted for by the public etc icly? And aren't just OOCly assigned/appointed?

[K1net1K]

+1

The faction leaders in DOC do a fantastic job trying to keep things realistic and fun for the player base whenever it's possible. But with that being said we all know the RP in DOC is limited. That's why the community has had an issue with an over abundance of DMs in prison.

Serving a 10 hour sentence in a scenario where RP is limited, and at times restricted due to the number of DOC staff currently online, is bound to cause these kinds of issues.

Now I understand there needs to be consequences for a players actions and they need to be more taxing as the severity and consistency of the crimes grow. That being said, *ANY* player serving a six hour sentence in a restricted RP setting is now being punished as a player. Not as a character.

In my opinion there should be a cap to the amount of time a player can  spend in prison. Any charges not accounted for after a player meets said cap should be added as fines that are increased incrementally in some fashion.

 

I know it's hard for crims to make money, which is true, but that's an entirely different topic of conversation that can be addressed on another thread.

 

 

[K1net1K]

I've never been an LEO so I'm unsure of how steep the learning curve is currently. Hopefully this wouldn't make it too difficult to train new players.

 

Just my two cents.