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Dashingly

What better RP would you like from The Gut Pushers?

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Yo dogs, Dashingly aka Leron Davis here to discuss a matter for the betterment of the server. Recently my faction The Gut Pushers (specifically me, @Phil McGee and @WoogeTV) have been accused of breaking rules, being hurtful oocly, and being bad rp'ers. I want to clear the air a bit, share my POV and hear your comments and suggestions about what we can do better. I don't want this to turn into a hate thread, but truly let us know how you feel, what rubbed you the wrong way, or whatever and we'll explain our side.

I hope this thread is allowed to stay on the forums, I hardly ever see discussion threads and I would like them to occur more because I feel like they can be very productive, like this one will hopefully be.

So to start, I've been playing this server for like 10 months or so and have been pretty active on the server/forums. I've always taken the server pretty seriously (in regards to not breaking rules), but also like to have fun. A while back Phil, Deshawn, Niko, Lewis and I made a faction called The Gut Pushers. Since then, we've received quite a bit of hate lol, I feel like we have a bad reputation but am not sure exactly why (which is partially why I made this thread). I feel like people don't like us because of actions that we do ICly (that are within the rules), and they grow an OOC disdain for us and they spread shit or whatever oocly to make us look bad. People who have never interacted with us before have talked shit on our rp and call us rule breakers, which again, I think is unfair. I think that we play by the rules, and do have good RP despite what players that we've been at war with think. In fact, I believe a lot of players are pretty hypocritical (which is what a lot of this thread will be about) and a lot should look in the mirror before accusing us.

Expanding on what I mean by people disliking us for IC things and then taking it ooc (despite us being within the rules), here is an example. In the past month we've been reported a fair amount of times, all of which have been rejected:

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7500-mask-9160_3466-mask-2687_3144-stranger-5928_5805-mask-9633_4196-stranger-180_966-mask-7254_4439-mask-1663_324-cal-harrow-8796_3123-mask-8056_1155-rules-532535/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7306-deshawn-davis-and-leron-davis-531-deathmatch-5519-non-roleplay/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7234-leron-davis-and-acquaintances-value-of-vehicles-requirement-5519/

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7508-5747_9862-6217_1031-death-matching/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7392-scotty-turf-leron-davis-55-non-roleplay/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7377-phil-mcgee-failfear-rp/)

I'm sure I missed a few, but you get the point. All of the reports on us have been rejected, and we have been found to not have broken the rules in any of our reports. When people grow an ooc hatred for us, I think they look for reasons to try and get us removed from the server, thus the reason for all the reports. On the flip side though, while all of the reports against us have been denied, all of the reports that we have made on others recently have been accepted:

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7460-rdm-531-deathmatch-mask-3725_460-gaiustavi/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7273-rdm-mask-3206_5644-mask8592_8687/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7184-stranger-476_8030-failrp-fearrp-meta-gaming/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/6437-tavi-patronus-meta-gaming-utilizing-waterfail-rp/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7388-fearrp-9002_9398/)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7371-failfear-roleplay-id-1685_190/)

I'm sure I missed a few there as well, but you get the point again lol. I find it hypocritical that we're accused of being rule breakers and bad rp'ers when all forum reports made against us have been denied, and when we make forum reports on the players that report us, they've been accepted. We get the wrap of being rule breakers from some kind of internal circle jerk of gut pusher haters, yet when taken to the forums we're found not guilty.

I'm not saying we're saints, the admins know we're not, but its shitty and hurtful for rumors to be spread when they're untrue and hurt our rep. When we're made out to be such horrible people for the server, admins take notice and we can definitely feel that on the forums. In a lot of the threads where we're being reported, I feel like the admins that handle the reports seek to get us punished by bringing in his or her feelings to the thread. See these threads here:

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7500-mask-9160_3466-mask-2687_3144-stranger-5928_5805-mask-9633_4196-stranger-180_966-mask-7254_4439-mask-1663_324-cal-harrow-8796_3123-mask-8056_1155-rules-532535/?tab=comments#comment-34791)

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7306-deshawn-davis-and-leron-davis-531-deathmatch-5519-non-roleplay/)

In both of these threads, the admins both bring in their feelings about what they think that we did wrong, and didn't judge the thread based off of if there was an actual rule violation. I'm not saying that these admins have an OOC disliking of me, but when they hear rumors that we're bad for the server, why wouldn't they want to try and get rid of the bad rp'ers? I mean realistically if I was an admin, and I heard from many people that a certain individual was always breaking rules and a general troll, I would also try and seek to get them removed for the greater good of the server. That's why it's hurtful to our reputation when people claim things that aren't true about us.

This doesn't just hurt us when we're being reported, but it also hurts us when we make reports. In reports that we make, I feel like admins seek to call our character into question or seek to make the reported parties look better or not guilty, when they should be a neutral party. Here's an example:

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7273-rdm-mask-3206_5644-mask8592_8687/)

In this thread Phil is reporting 2 players for deathmatching, the admins reviewing this thread claimed that they heard some noise that wasn't there that would have exonerated the reported parties. When Phil slowed the video down, the admins abandoned that theory and essentially tried to groom a response from the reported players, by asking them specific questions to try and exonerate them. When it is found that they are in fact guilty, Phil gets punished for metagaming for saying the word "Health" while he is in a panic for his IC life. While it's definitely incorrect for someone to say health while they're in character, I challenge any person to link me a thread where someone is punished for such a mild metagaming that no one was around to hear (except me on the radio). This thread bolsters my points that we're being sought out for rule breaks, while others get treated fairly.

 

 

 

To move onto my other point, which was that we're accused of being bad RP'ers I'd like to bring up @Triple Seven's statements he made about us in our most recent report seen here: 

(https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/7500-mask-9160_3466-mask-2687_3144-stranger-5928_5805-mask-9633_4196-stranger-180_966-mask-7254_4439-mask-1663_324-cal-harrow-8796_3123-mask-8056_1155-rules-532535/)

We're made out to be horrible RP'ers because we attacked cops who were trying to arrest our downed friend. I ask you all in the community, is this reasonable? This sort of thing happens on a daily basis, have any of your criminal characters, ever shot at the police who were trying to arrest a fellow gang member? Well that's what I was being reported for, and in the thread we're being made out to look like shit.

Triple Seven says this: "The situation in the video supplied as evidence for the report shows extremely bad RP,"

I would like Triple Seven, cops, and criminals, all to tell me what better RP could we have done there? Would you have rather us attacked the police straight on? We took the high ground and surrounded them from all angles, leaving the cops completely defenseless so that we could save our friend from life imprisonment. We made an attempt to get him revived before the script killed him off. Would you guys have rather we waited for the cops to get him to a hospital, got him arrested, then got in a swat transport truck before we made our attempt to rescue him? Would that have been better RP? Or did you just want us to completely leave our man down, when we had a superior numbers advantage and height advantage?

Triple Seven also said this: "The injuries of the man are not important, he is brutally injured by the script and that should be roleplayed ICly, saying he only hit his head a little on a pole at low speed is no excuse."

I believe this would be horrible RP, why would you treat every wound the same if a player is downed? I get that there is a script and all of that that makes them die in several minutes, but saying that we should RP every person downed as if they would die is really bad rp. Should you RP someone's grievously injured because they get kicked in the thigh once when they're at half health the same way you would treat a person who has been shot with an ak47 30 times across the body?

 I'd like to call out Triple Seven specifically now, because of his comments about us that really rubbed me the wrong way and how hypocritical of a statement it was.

https://plays.tv/video/5a9565d75640647ff4/murder-death-kill?from=user

^ in this video you can see triple seven, and his gang do the exact same thing that we did except worse. Triple Seven was shot down by several police officers with high caliber pistols, and his gang members kept driving back and forth in gun fire, ramming police, then getting out and fighting them head on in a gun fight. @Triple Seven since you consider what we did, as horrible RP, what would you consider this? Where you and company do the same thing, except you are downed from many gun shot wounds (our player fell off a bike at low speeds), and your gang members fight them behind small cover on the ground? 

I'm not trying to turn this into a call out thread, but merely to bring to light inconsistencies and hypocritical behavior that work against us unfairly. We get called shit RP'ers who break the rules, but hardly get in trouble from the forums. An admin says that we have horrible RP, yet does the exact same thing that we do. This unfair treatment that we get, is getting out of hand, players do what we do on a much larger scale on a daily basis but don't get accused of being shit rp'ers. We try to follow the rules as best we can, despite what people think.

To conclude, in this thread I hope I've given you some of our POV on some stuff that we go through. I believe that we are given unfair treatment, we do things that other players do, but we get heat for it. I believe that players that have an OOC disdain for us try to find ways to get us banned, and I want that to stop because it hasn't worked thus far, and it hass just wasted both our times and the admins times. I do want players to tell us what more we could do to RP better, I know that our RP level isn't as high as it could be, but I'm not sure exactly what you guys want from us specifically. 

I want people to give us ideas to have better RP, I want anyone who has a problem with my faction to please bring it to light so that we can try and solve it together, in a public setting. Anybody can give their comments or concerns, but specifically I would like to hear from the following players if they wish to speak on it: @Gaius @GaiusTavi @Steven_Doherty @Jbacon @ImSuspensee @Triple Seven @SteScotland @MrKantonine @civexr 

^ I respect all of the above players opinions, and would value them greatly as they've all been on the receiving end of my RP.

I promise I will take all of your comments into consideration and hope this thread stays alive long enough to hear them. And I hope this thread betters the server.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I had several hours to kill on an airplane lol. Thanks for reading, 

Leron.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dashingly
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 I would echo all that is said above by Leron and I think the evidence put forth speaks for itself. This is not our opinions, theses are facts and figures which if you approach from a purely logical point of view clearly display s " the pot calling the kettle black" 

We spent 2 hours in a OOC meeting with Admin s and left under the agreement that we all try and elevate our RP. The 2 examples put forth of us harrasing the exiled were Photo bombing a picture and ruining a wedding by getting the radio which were rediculous. The very next day @MrKantonine blocked @WoogeTV into a store in a super car. Rammed me off my bike and slammed into a tree. And 2 other exiled members attempted to KOS me. This agreement didn't even last 8 hours before we got attacked. 

The baiting that you claim is just a symptom of the rules. Yeah sure we could clip you in smaller groups with no RP but then we get done for DM. We need to initiate to do anything and to be honest 99% we came out on top.

And even after we were moaned at about our gang was too small to take on your gangs which we disagree with, we recruited other groups to help us in our war and that wasn't acceptable either as you were losing all your turf etc. Wether you feel it was valid is in another report. This resulted you taking your ball and going home.

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My bad , I saw you respond to an OOC insult report regarding Steve Ranchman so I assumed that was you as why else would you be responding to it. I have no idea who you are IG either.

So whomever Ranchman is he can respond if he so wishes regarding that specific point. 

Edited by Phil McGee
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I am responding because no one else wants to.  I gave you a reason and you immediately went on the defensive and showed you were not willing to listen.

 

Like literally,  we do not care about the criminal aspect anymore.  Its not fun.  The criminal aspect of the city is now run by people who want the same 'RP' as you do. 

Hope you enjoy and hope the city enjoys it too. 

Edited by MrKantonine
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5 minutes ago, MrKantonine said:

I am responding because no one else wants to

I was referring to the report regarding the ooc insults not this one.

 

5 minutes ago, MrKantonine said:

Like literally,  we do not care about the criminal aspect anymore.  Its not fun.  The criminal aspect of the city is now run by people who want the same 'RP' as you do. 

Hope you enjoy and hope the city enjoys it too

It's this type of poor attitude that is trying to be treated. I'm my opinion you , whoever you are as I have no idea why Leron tagged but he must have felt you are feeling wronged in some manner, lost the war after asking us to not come at you guys with so few people. We did exactly what was asked of us and complain again when the war is won.

And yeah we will have " fun" as will the other 80% of the server.

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6 hours ago, MrKantonine said:

Well for a start you can begin by not constantly trying to bait a gang that out number you 5 to 1.  Realistically that would be asking to be murdered which isn't exactly fearing for your life.  

We never ever fight an unfair fight, we even the odds by splitting your group up and picking you off in pieces. We don't try to get ourselves killed. You're asking us to fight head on, because it gives you the advantage.

 

3 hours ago, MrKantonine said:

and to be perfectly honest, you are too late with this post.  Everyone you have tagged has had enough with the criminal RP on the server so we have all went legitimate.

 

Do what you want, we just don't care anymore.  Just leave us out of it.

It's never too late to try and better yourself/environment, and if everyone feels the way you do then fine. 

I'm not going to purposefully avoid you icly, because I don't think that's realistic.

2 hours ago, MrKantonine said:

Sam Sutherland... Why are you tagging me in this if you dont even know who I am IG?

Dang lol, I thought you were Stephen we home invaded, do you know his forum name by chance.

 

1 hour ago, MrKantonine said:

Like literally,  we do not care about the criminal aspect anymore.  Its not fun.  The criminal aspect of the city is now run by people who want the same 'RP' as you do. 

That's partially why I made this thread, I want to know how I can make it fun for both of us, instead you're just being combative and not constructive. 

Not to call you out specifically, but you killed me with no RP at the scene near chop shop and then reported Phil hours later because he killed you for killing me. Is that the type of RP that you like to do?

 

If no one else wants to respond as you say Sam, I'd be fine with that. I at least tried haha.

Edited by Dashingly
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Hello Gutpusher. this is Stephen that you home invaded. I don't feel that I have anything that I can help you with fixing your RP to be fun as the Gutpushers. I have read this post many times and it seem like you have already gotten the answers to all your questions and defended yourself against those points. I don't feel that arguing or fighting about what does and doesn't make your "style" of "RP" fun for others is worth going into. Simply its not fun, to be taunted/baited then chase into NCZ where you taunt/bait then chase away from the NCZ only to go around the block and end up right back where we were. or simply wake up walk out of the house and have a gun to your head 2 weeks in a row. Not saying anything about you being wrong or right in how you play its just not fun dealing with it and arguing about it to be ignored or retaliated against. I appreciate the premise of this post but just don't feel that it can be constructive enough to change how most of us feel. I doubt that this will help you much but I tried to be as honest and not combative as possible

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20 minutes ago, Jagsniper said:

Hello Gutpusher. this is Stephen that you home invaded. I don't feel that I have anything that I can help you with fixing your RP to be fun as the Gutpushers. I have read this post many times and it seem like you have already gotten the answers to all your questions and defended yourself against those points. I don't feel that arguing or fighting about what does and doesn't make your "style" of "RP" fun for others is worth going into. Simply its not fun, to be taunted/baited then chase into NCZ where you taunt/bait then chase away from the NCZ only to go around the block and end up right back where we were. or simply wake up walk out of the house and have a gun to your head 2 weeks in a row. Not saying anything about you being wrong or right in how you play its just not fun dealing with it and arguing about it to be ignored or retaliated against. I appreciate the premise of this post but just don't feel that it can be constructive enough to change how most of us feel. I doubt that this will help you much but I tried to be as honest and not combative as possible

yo Stephen. TY for your honesty and telling us how you truly feel. I respectfully disagree with the points you make about us taunting you because we're in an NCZ. And I'm sorry that you didn't like when we robbed you outside of your house. I don't see us stopping home invasions or running and baiting out a few enemies to get them alone, that's just our play style. I don't think the receiving end of a robbery or house invasion ever has fun, but people rob and rob houses all the time so I'm not sure why we seem to get singled out the most.

Thank you for your post, I honestly really appreciate it.

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Not attacking Steve Dohertys house several times over the span of a week would help as I'm fairly certain you died as a result of that multiple times, if not every time, and that might be a breach of NLR. @JackD248last I checked you just got off a permaban for your third case of death matching, and that's far from the only thing on your admin record, so please don't talk about what's good rp and what isn't as your history shows that you have no idea what that means. The main thing that seemed like it was bad RP was the war. It's not breaking the rules as there's no rules against this currently, but the entire basis of the war revolves around you guys being able to respawn and having less to lose than us. You took on a group 20 times your size because if we killed you worst comes to worst you lost a pistol and have to wait 30 minutes to interact with us again, whereas if you manage to single out one of our members and kill them you can get an AK. We've wiped your whole group multiple times, there was one day where we killed Leron 3 times over the span of several hours, I personally killed him one of those times, yet they continued to take hostile action and carry on this war that has no real end or outcome, it's just a case of being able to disrupt whatever we were doing. In Phil's report on Tavi he's following around a large group of people by himself that he's claiming are terrorists, so he knows that they're dangerous and outnumber him, yet that doesn't seem to make him think that he should maybe leave them alone? It might not be breaking the FearRP rule but it isn't very good RP. The use of no crime zones by your gang was incredibly annoying too, and also not very good RP. You declared war on us from inside the bank after you got chased there for robbing Steven Black, and then stayed inside there so we couldn't take any hostile action, not to mention the numerous other times you'd flee to a no crime zone in order to not face retaliation to your criminal actions. One time Phil stole Rudy's car and then fled to the hospital in a stolen car in order to not face us taking action, even though rp'ly there'd be cops there who would do something. While you guys may not be breaking the rules when you play it seems like you're not trying to do any more than the bare minimum, or you're unintentionally finding loopholes that the rules don't cover. The thing with the war isn't just on you guys either, as wars seem to bring out the worst in everybody, and I hope that the rules regarding them are changed because as of now they're not very fun to be a part of when the people you're at war with refuse to end it even though they should rp'ly because they just want to be able to kill people when they play. When all you can do when you play is just have to kill people, because anything else that you do gets disrupted and turned into a gunfight it makes you question why you're playing on an rp server. 

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25 minutes ago, Spergburger said:

Phil stole Rudy's car and then fled to the hospital in a stolen car in order to not face us taking action

In my defense I stopped to pick up Ragh who was outside the doors and would have dipped back out within seconds if he wasn't having PC issues. I would be quite confident in losing you all at any point, especially in a super car.

 

28 minutes ago, Spergburger said:

In Phil's report on Tavi he's following around a large group of people by himself that he's claiming are terrorists, so he knows that they're dangerous and outnumber him, yet that doesn't seem to make him think that he should maybe leave them alone?

What can I say ,I'm a patriot. And it's not like I was 10ft behind them tailing them all the time but was hiding and calling the cops. This is good RP, I know it's frustrating for you as it led to your gang being harassed by the cops and resulting in numerous reports but that's not our fault.

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What's the purpose of this thread if your going to negate anything said to you and counter it with, not our fault. Your just mad. We do nothing wrong.

I've been part of many successful and mature communities. All having a strong feeling for something called ruleplay over roleplay. Just because its "OK" by the rules, does not dictate it is "OK" to do IC. Because you have the "Rights" to kill someone, doesn't mean its ok to do so. It's this elitist mentality through all gangs partaking in this which is why the roleplay deemed acceptable for "Criminals" is so low that you have to literally skirt around rules.

To me it just looks like a thread in an attempt to goad and get reactions from people, take the criticism on board whether you agree with it or not. To call people out to comment on your RP and then when they do turn it round into a "I did nothing wrong, Your fault" is exactly why noone can be bothered to give you the time of day.

So take on board what people say, or close the thread. It looks poor on the community as a whole.

 

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7 minutes ago, JackD248 said:

@Spergburger My Dear Friend,

I am very sorry that you are not happy with our roleplay and question why we play on a roleplay server and i send my deepest condolences your direction for the upset i have caused. I am also glad to hear you know about my admin record, it's not a secret nor is it covered in the new GDPR law however i must say, you are one intelligent person to know that, one thing you haven't noticed is that it has been removed...

In regards to you saying i don't know what good RP is i quote the definition of the variable noun "roleplay" it is as follows: "Role play is the act of imitating the character and behaviour of someone who is different from yourself, for example as a training exercise." I am very sorry you don't feel as though i am matching this definition and i will really try and change my behaviour within Eclipse RP. Perhaps, i should drive a squad of phantoms trucks into law enforcement officers vehicles and then pull heavy calibre automatic rifles out of my anus; it seems like you would prefer for me to roleplay something like that or what i would deem Roleplaying As A Terrorist however @Spergburger it's with my deepest regrets that role playing a terrorist would be a direct breech of the rules thus, i am afraid i cannot reenact you'r exceptional roleplay standards you set.

I honestly do not wan't you to carry on feeling upset regarding my way and style of roleplay and hinder your roleplaying experience therefore, i will change one thing and one thing only, the amount i care about how you feel regarding my RP and that my friend is next to none i regret to inform you. I will continue roleplaying the way i choose to roleplay and i will follow rules and avoid any possible "terrorist" RP in which you may be advising me to enter into.

All the best for the future @Spergburger and have a wonderful day/evening

 

Kindest Regards,

Mr Roleplayer 

It wasn't removed, it was modified. You still deathmatched, for the third time. Another problem I personally see with you/your gang is the toxicity on the forums. If you don't give a fuck, then fine, don't give a fuck, but don't think people will change their mind about you or the style your play. If you don't care about other people's criticism, then fine, but don't expect them to change their mind about your, in my opinion, horrible RP. And please don't come about "this is cyberbullying", because it really isn't. I wouldn't waste my time on such a stupid concept. 

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11 minutes ago, Jetbino said:

What's the purpose of this thread if your going to negate anything said to you and counter it with, not our fault. Your just mad. We do nothing wrong.

It's not negating anything, it's disagreeing with their POV and discussing it which leads to a healthy discussion. Who are you IG may I ask? 

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@JackD248 Don't know where you're getting the terrorist rp from, we never once said we were terrorists, Phil was claiming we were to the police, and I wasn't involved in either of those situations so what you're saying is pointless. @Phil McGee you're twisting what happened. There's a difference between calling the cops on a rival gang to disrupt their supply chain, and following them around driving right up to them with only a fence to separate you and the so called "terrorists." As seen in the video you were within shooting range, which I believe you were doing to bait them but that's besides the point. If you think that scenario was good rp then I obviously can't help you. 

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@JackD248 On an unrelated note it doesn't say anything in the rules about not being allowed to rp being a terrorist, it says that isn't a valid reason for death matching. I would hope someone who makes as many reports as you and who is just coming off of a ban for not knowing the rules would be more well versed in them. 

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Just now, Spergburger said:

and following them around driving right up to them with only a fence to separate you and the so called "terrorists." As seen in the video you were within shooting range,

They drove up on me and I left. I'd have thought they would shown some restraint on an international airport runway, sadly I was mistaken.

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They drove up on you because you were sitting out in the open. Obviously this shouldn't be happening at an airport but there isn't really anything we can do about that since the shipments go random places. I don't think the shipments should go to the airport either, but that's out of my control. You were also doing illegal stuff at an airport too though so you're not exempt from your statement. 

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5 minutes ago, Spergburger said:

You were also doing illegal stuff at an airport too though so you're not exempt from your statement. 

Trespassing is a misdemeanor, shooting illegal weapons would be a felony. The 2 are polar opposites. And I would agree it's a poor place for a shipment to come in.

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