Face Mask Rules GC-06 , GM-20. Fail RP.

[Nex]

I'm going to cut straight to the chase and then go into some details later in the message. Sorry for the long post in advance.

TL:DR : So I've just wasted a good 30-45 minutes of good RP with a medic because of a rule.

I'm frustrated because I took all the RP steps to do it right and the medic (will only give her name if needed) was so awesome ... enjoyed the experience a lot.

I want to really wear a mask(more as a fashion component THIS IS MY OOC REASON) . in game without being bruteforced by any cop that passes by me to take it off .The mask itself (OX BLOOD DOME FILTER) only covers the nose/mouth and my character stands out easily. You could identify me from a mile away. I take it off with RP involved asking them to step back a bit etc. RPing the situation out. And they get even more pissed when I do that.

I tried to RP my way out of it for medical reasons etc. I was confronted by a few cops saying that I should get a license / permit call it what you want. In order to wear a mask " lawfully".
But  most times literally 2 seconds of a cop seeing me this happens:

Every cop comes in my face and starts spazzing out saying "TAKE OFF YOUR MASK" 20 times like I'm doing a robbery or some shit. In an angry voice.
Ask me why I'm wearing a mask. Get some RP going, some interaction. I'm bored of this already and I haven't even been here for so long.

Some guy literally showed up and again after 2 seconds..."asked" me to take the mask off. I asked him nicely to tell me why I can't wear one....Without no more RP between us he goes like. " Take it of or I'm gonna fine you / write you a citation or w/e". ( "good RP")

So the RP with the medic ended when the admins or whoever they were. Told the medic that she is not allowed to give me that....After she RPed giving me a notice  for my mask.
And....now comes the fun part admin told her that I SHOULD RP WEARING ONE DOING /MY /ME...
How do you RP that? Without the character having an actual mask on his face.....this breaks the RP so hard...it would be such a bad RP experience....it's not even funny. Am I supposed to spam the chat ? /wears a mask for health reasons .....

Anyway here are the rules I'm talking about

GC06 :
(a) No individual, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, shall:
(1) Be present on foot within public property, or property of the State of San Andreas.
(2) Hold any manner of meeting or demonstration.

(b) The provisions of subsection (a) of this section are only a general citation if the face obstruction is not removed upon request by a Law Enforcement officer, and if not committed in relation to a crime, whereas then it shall apply to GM#20.

(c) The provisions of subsection (a) do not apply if the concealment is done during masquerades and other entertainment events that are deemed appropriate by the city (such as Halloween), or where there's reasonable cause e.g. motorcycle protection or medical reasons.

(d )Individuals that are continuously stopped and written up for GC-06 will be liable for prosecution for failure to comply at the discretion of the handling officer. This would also result in the GC - 06 escalating to a GM - 20.

This turned out into more of a rant than it should have been.

I understand that people will still wear masks they are there for a reason.
My problem is with every cop coming into my face and ruining my RP that I'm having with someone.

I would be having a good RP with others at times and out of nowhere a cop would see me....turn back from their way and start spitting into my face...yelling at me to take my mask off.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nex

[NotYourAlpaca]

I could not agree more. 

[Bala]

I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your post, but I'd like to remind you that this is an in-character issue and should remain as such.

[Nex]

It is both ic and ooc details. I can't post this on gov website with these details @Bala.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nex

[tylxrrr]

I think this is more of an in-character issue. You could complain to the commissioners or protest for better policing or something. I am guessing that the admin probably thought the notice for health reasons is alt-rp? Alt-RP is very broad and it is definitely frustrating not knowing what is alt-rp and what is not. If it turns out that it was denied as it is alt-RP, then you could make an alt-RP request to carry around some type of ID that shows you have to wear a mask for health reasons. You could then show the cop your ID and have a /do like "/do There would be writing that states 'This person under law has the right to wear a face covering due to medical reasons'" or something along those lines.

[Nex]

@tylxrrr Thx for the info. 

But we both know that if a cop would see a /do with the example you showed.. They would give 0 shits and still try to find a way to force it on me.
They got pissed when I tried to RP it out. I got no doubt that doing what you suggested will have the same effect.

I followed the rules both IC and OOC and I've been given bad RP in exchange, that's what's ticking me off.

And I'm posting here and consider it both IC and OOC because the post itself contains too much OOC info to be posted anywhere else.
And if posted in the IC section I would have to miss out on many details that would make the post what it's meant to be.

[tylxrrr]

3 minutes ago, Nex said:

@tylxrrr Thx for the info. 

But we both know that if a cop would see a /do with the example you showed.. They would give 0 shits and still try to find a way to force it on me.
They got pissed when I tried to RP it out. I got no doubt that doing what you suggested will have the same effect.

I followed the rules both IC and OOC and I've been given bad RP in exchange, that's what's ticking me off.

And I'm posting here and consider it both IC and OOC because the post itself contains too much OOC info to be posted anywhere else.
And if posted in the IC section I would have to miss out on many details that would make the post what it's meant to be.

Yeah, I mean it is up to the cop if they care. I am sure there are cops IRL that don't care if you have medical reasons or not. That is the IC part. You could IA report them, etc.

[Nex]

1 minute ago, tylxrrr said:

Yeah, I mean it is up to the cop if they care. I am sure there are cops IRL that don't care if you have medical reasons or not. That is the IC part. You could IA report them, etc.

A cop IRL wouldn't see someone with a mask on that covers mouth / nose...and it's obviously used for medical reason.
Then ask them to take it off without getting any info about why they are wearing it.
They could...but that would be just plain stupid. As you didn't bother on getting any info about the illness the guy has and could get your own life in danger. 

[tylxrrr]

22 minutes ago, Nex said:

They could...but that would be just plain stupid. As you didn't bother on getting any info about the illness the guy has and could get your own life in danger.

Yeah, the point is that they could. That is why it is an in-character issue. There are no OOC rules behind it. Either the cop cares or they don't. Simple. You can then figure out what you would like to do ICly. RP injuries or something depending on your character. Not sure if that would be alt-RP but I would check with staff to be sure.

[Nex]

@tylxrrrHow would it be a IC issue if the cop does not show any regard for his wellbeing? It's on the lines of FearRP rules? It's simply bad RP in general....

Also don't take it the wrong way ...but determining if it's IC or OCC is not the issue here...and will not help fixing it either.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nex

[ArcAngel]

As others have stated, this is an IC issue.

It is Enforced on an IC level because the law created is IC.

 

In terms of realism, prior to covid, there are very minimal reasons to be wearing a mask. Where I live you can only wear a mask for religious or medical reasons, and while you want to RP a medical reason, you've been told by administration your best viable option is to roleplay it instead.

I have seen people roleplay a hijab using the cloth mask without a face part but it still covers identity. If there was a mask that looked like a medical grade mask I'm sure it wouldn't be such an issue, but there isn't.

On a final note this post seems like more of an issue with policing which again is an IC issue.

Laws are not created by cops in real life, they are created by the government and UPHELD by the police. Would you berate a janitor for the way he is payed to clean?

Work with what you have available to you and move forward with IC means to improve or change laws.

[jason]

Moved to discussions subforum.

[Nex]

4 hours ago, arcangel said:

As others have stated, this is an IC issue.

It is Enforced on an IC level because the law created is IC.

Then , by your own rules I would be able to call out fail FearRP and report every police officer that forces me to take it off without asking any questions while sitting in my face.
If that were the case and I had saved all POV's , I could have roughly reported ~20 officers. And I doubt they would have been dealt with in any way.

In terms of realism, prior to covid, there are very minimal reasons to be wearing a mask. Where I live you can only wear a mask for religious or medical reasons.

Why would you assume that that is the way it should be just because of your limited knowledge or because you didn't see it where you live ? There are plenty of deadly diseases that are airborne and have people wear a mask for a long time. (Yes deadly...people don't die just because of covid)

I have seen people roleplay a hijab using the cloth mask without a face part but it still covers identity. -> Not relevant to my situation.

If there was a mask that looked like a medical grade mask I'm sure it wouldn't be such an issue, but there isn't.
People who have to wear a mask for a long time will usually get them stylized and with a hidden ventilating / purifying system in them.
The mask that I'm specifying OX BLOOD DOME FILTER  looks like a regular stylised medical grade mask .  Covers only mouth and nose , looks like it has a hidden ventilation system and is red. ? How is this not realistic ? Proof if needed https://imgur.com/apKdsbD This looks almost exactly like the one I'm talking about. It's just red in game.

On a final note this post seems like more of an issue with policing which again is an IC issue.

**You see it as an IC issue that can be dealt with IC. I see it as bad RP in general. The only problem here is that my point makes sense in RP.
I shouldn't have to go to a police officer and tell him how to do his basic duties in real life. He would have undergone training and having experience in the field would know how to deal with a small issue like this.

Laws are not created by cops in real life, they are created by the government and UPHELD by the police. Would you berate a janitor for the way he is payed to clean?
Not relevant as I explained in **.

Work with what you have available to you and move forward with IC means to improve or change laws.


As an ending. @arcangel Please don't take what I say personally or in a hateful way , for IRL reasons I want to RP with a mask on hence why I'm dedicated to this topic and I may come out sounding angry at you. Which is not the case.
Also I don't want to compare this server to others , because they are not comparable. But I haven't had to deal with this issue anywhere else.

 

[dawpi]

The law is  the law, and it will be enforced. If you wish to suggest certain changes to the penal code, it would be best if you use the government website and write them up as an In-Character (IC) email and sent it to @Lewis (Lewis Langley) on those forums, and a change may happen, you never know! 

[Nex]

Thank you for your time and  help @dawpi !

As I stated , I followed the law. Both IC rules and OOC rules.
Got everything in place for a good RP. And I was given bad RP experience in return by the rules that I followed themselves and what a couple officers instructed me to do in RP. ( getting a license / permit for the mask from medics)

I am also aware that the mask rules are in place because people rely on /alias for everything . I got a negative opinion on that too ..but that's not the matter here.

And about writing IC on the government website. I would probably get a negative feedback just like I did here.

Telling me its an IC issue, while I clearly stated OOC reasons for the having the discussion in the first place...how is that supposed to fix anything?

That just looks like the easy way out with 0 effort. After I went through the effort in stating my point of view and providing information in @arcangel's message. Everything has been ignored.

I can't as 1 person change the rules you had in place for who knows how long. I see that now.

I understand now that nothing can be done after hearing answers from Administration , Support Staff and a few other members.

Sorry for wasting your time with this and I hope no one got offended in any way.

Thank you for your help.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nex

[Nex]

After taking time to consider some options. I will follow the advice given and will take this to IC.

Although I consider some of my points should be taken in consideration regardless.

 

[SaltyPython]

I will say that back when this rule was introduced, I recall there being an OOC reason for this law being introduced; everyone would wear masks everywhere all the time (like at the bank - which was borderline non-RP, try going into a bank pre-covid times with a skull mask and see how far you get)

So OP has a point in making this discussion an OOC one, it's really not just an IC thing as to why the law was introduced. With that being said, I think it's kind of a necessary evil to stop people from wearing masks all the time even when they really wouldn't have a reason to realistically. And I think it's better to be punished ICly (through fines) than OOCly (as a rule break).

EDIT: I'm a derp. OP is having IC problems of cops being too aggressive. Yeah, that's an IC thing.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by SaltyPython
actually read the topic instead of being a monkey

[Victor Einhart]

You should have the certificate you say the medic gave you ready at all times. You need to realize that every single other person on the server that has a mask on wears it to play into the alias system and the IC laws were created to combat against this because there was no reason not to wear one. You also need to realize everyone argues over everything with officers and the default is not to believe you if you don't have some kind of evidence to show us. Get that certificate out. Show us. If you chill out and roleplay with the officers and actually give them the certificate you say you got, the officers shouldn't bother you. This doesn't mean they can't ask you for ID to verify who you are, though. If they do continue to bother you about the mask, it becomes something they can actually get into trouble for IC because of the passage you highlighted that gives exemptions for medical reasons.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Nex]

@SaltyPython There's multiple things I'm having issues with . Cops being to aggressive is one of them. Cops failing to RP the scenario I presented them considering is totally realistic and not NRP in any way. Is another thing.

Also walking around with a mask that only covers half your face when your character is plenty distinguishable, I don't see why every cop would come in my face and start spazzing out.

Also how the issue was handled and the RP was broken. Nobody likes it when you are having a good RP time then something that doesn't make any sense pops up and ruins it.
I don't want to go on a rant again...so I'll stop here , I just felt like I needed to answer you.

One thing I wanted to point out specifically. I talk about this with IRL experience behind.
@SaltyPython you said :
"everyone would wear masks everywhere all the time (like at the bank - which was borderline non-RP, try going into a bank pre-covid times with a skull mask and see how far you get)"
Because you didn't see it as often pre-covid does not mean that people didn't have to wear masks for certain illnesses and go into banks with masks on. It wasn't common. That's all.

Also the mask I'm mentioning actually looks looks like a regular stylised medical grade mask. Not a skull mask. 

Also I'm not calling for Co-vid in game...as that would be mixing. I've provided the doctor with the details and went through with 30-40 minutes of RP to determine the illness / stages etc.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Nex

[Nex]

@Victor Einhart I will follow through with this situation in IC. I already have planned out what I will do.

I am sad I didn't think of recording all the instances I'm talking about when blaming the cops for fail RP. You don't have to take my word for it.
But there would have been at least 15-20 instances. Gathered in 2 days.
I wouldn't have brought it up if it weren't so frustrating to deal with. And get interrupted every 5 / 10 minutes. Sometimes when I'm mid RP with someone else and actually having fun.

[SaltyPython]

29 minutes ago, Nex said:

@SaltyPython There's multiple things I'm having issues with . Cops being to aggressive is one of them. Cops failing to RP the scenario I presented them considering is totally realistic and not NRP in any way. Is another thing.

Also walking around with a mask that only covers half your face when your character is plenty distinguishable, I don't see why every cop would come in my face and start spazzing out.

Also how the issue was handled and the RP was broken. Nobody likes it when you are having a good RP time then something that doesn't make any sense pops up and ruins it.
I don't want to go on a rant again...so I'll stop here , I just felt like I needed to answer you.

I understand how you feel, and I realize that it sucks when you feel that your RP is ruined. Unless the rules have changed, you can't really report them unless you've incurred some losses either. But, if you feel that they have acted in a non-RP way, you can get evidence of this and make an OOC IA-Report. You can also act on it ICly if they're just too aggressive and don't necessarily ruin RP.

29 minutes ago, Nex said:

@SaltyPython you said:
"everyone would wear masks everywhere all the time (like at the bank - which was borderline non-RP, try going into a bank pre-covid times with a skull mask and see how far you get)"

Because you didn't see it as often pre-covid does not mean that people didn't have to wear masks for certain illnesses and go into banks with masks on. It wasn't common. That's all.
Also I'm not calling for Co-vid in game...as that would be mixing. I've provided the doctor with the details and went through with 30-40 minutes of RP to determine the illness / stages etc.

I didn't say you were calling for COVID in-game, I was setting the scenario as a real life example (obviously going into the bank with a facemask right now is significantly more acceptable.)

The skull mask comment, as an aside, was simply an explanation as to why the law exists. Not necessarily accusing you of wanting to wear a skull mask all the time for no reason, just providing context.

Lastly, if you have the IC certificate, then as Victor said above, you've gotta be ready to RP about it all the time. Compare it with someone blatantly smoking weed in front of cops in a medical marijuana-only state, cops would always ask you if you have a good reason, and they may not always be nice about it, cause, well, that's how American cops can be sometimes.

Edited May 14, 2021 by SaltyPython
Clarification

[Cyrus Raven]

Quote

(c) The provisions of subsection (a) do not apply if the concealment is done during masquerades and other entertainment events that are deemed appropriate by the city (such as Halloween), or where there's reasonable cause e.g. motorcycle protection or medical reasons.

There's a pretty easy workaround, no where in the penal code does it state you need a medical license or permit by MD to wear a mask for ''medical reasons'', instead it states that you need reasonable cause, medical reasons being one of them. 

Building a character as being a germaphobe or someone with a medical disease that requires usage of the mask could be done and if a cop still fines/arrests you for it then you can deal with it IC'ly (IA report, Legal recourse, etc...). This might not be the intent of the law, but as it is written the law does NOT require a permit or medical letter for you to RP using a mask for ''Medical Reasons''.

Any and all info in this reply relating to IN-CHARACTER actions should not be used as this is an OOC forum and reply. To avoid any sort of metagaming, read the penal code, think outside the box and use the law in your favour. If someone still breaks that law in a way you think is unlawful then there are IC ways to deal with it, although tedious and timely.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Cyrus Raven

[Nex]

Thanks @Cyrus Raven After careful consideration I have taken the matter to IC and will deal with it appropriately.

One of my big issues was with how it was enforced by Police officers. Being too forceful and not bothering to engage in a discussion with me.
Also the fact that my RP was broken mid interaction by an admin's decision. Which led to me posting this under frustration.

But like I said, Will take care of this IC. Already got a good feedback from a couple of officers.

Edit:
Ah missed a point .no where in the penal code does it state you need a medical license or permit by MD to wear a mask for ''medical reasons''
That information was provided by me IC from 4 police officers I had interactions at different times. And both parties told me to get a license for it.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Nex

[TheCactus]

@Nex maybe it's too forceful because 90% of the people won't remove it otherwise. Again, as the others have said, all the more or less relevant aspects of this discussion shouldn't have been brought up OOCly.

[jason]

As this discussion has long since been concluded, it will now be locked & archived.

Thank you for participating.