PD/SD RP - Adjustments

[DaMasterSplinter]

RP ADJUSMENT

 

• START :

We all know how the last complaints about PD/SD went with Toxic comments which leaded for the Topics to be taken down or Locked. Myself being in one of the factions, I would like to suggest some adjustments. If you like my ideas I would appreciate a +1 and if you think you can add something to them feel free to reply too ( Make sure it keeps the balance between Crim and PD). I did not see any topic talking about hose points so I decided to add them. 

I don't know English that much but will try my best.

IDEAS :

First of all, we all know about how dying the crim RP is nowadays :

• Performing 10-55's on vehicle because they are gang colored vehicles:

• To start, we all know that when we see a Green/Grey/Red/Brown vehicles, it would be most likely be gang affiliated. The RP should be adjust to... There should be a valid reason to pull over a vehicle that did not violate any traffic rules... Impeding traffic should not be a reason used so often if the vehicle is on the side of the road as we all know this is a game and sometimes we have to leave for a sec then come back.
• None vehicle should be pulled over because they *MIGHT* have guns in the vehicle, unless there was prior rp that lead to that and the rp would be valid for 1-2 hour max. For Criminal factions, if a robbery gets placed and the victim gets killed... both parties should forget what happened and wait for new escalation. The same thing should be applied with PD/SD. We all know that the people inside the vehicles will be armed from a .50 to a heavy.

 

• During the 10-55's :

• I would suggest when the lead unit in a 10-55 is not a detective or a Gang field unit...  The people should not be pulled out or asked about guns unless the reason was related to the weapons or it is an arrest. This will reflect too on the Criminals. They should not try to ambush the officers over a 1st degree speeding ticket or a small thing... All that to remain themselves low and not drag any attention on them ( we all know about the huge ambush that happened on the Highway Bridge all over a 5 mins jail time which lead to a chaos in the community discord). 
• During the 10-55, The officer should not ask the people to step out if they don't have the right to search the vehicle/player (I understand the time officers tell them to step out but does not give the player the reason why, but that is ICly) I already know that a lot of officers abuse this thing and pulls out people cause they know they already have weapons on them, if it is not visible for the officers he should never tell him to step out because he knows he has a gun and then the reason for the man's arrest would be carrying unlicensed/ possession of illegal.... . Officers can rp checking the vehicle for any guns, and while rping if they don't see the gun in their POV the guy in the vehicle should answer with he would not see anything. ( The players should understand the fact that Micro SMG with full attachments might be seen even tho he is "Sitting on it"). Both Parties should not abuse the fact and take it as an advantage. If the vehicle is a normal vehicle let's say an Elegy, the officer can see the interior of the vehicle, but if it is a kamacho with a full door on the sides, it would be hard for a person to be able to see the interior of the vehicle.

 

• Detectives:

 

• Detectives job might change with that as they don't have the right to pull out people of their cars as they are Gang Affiliated, but:

- If they are on an investigation or any sort of that they can pull out the people as they might be involved in a past scene ( Only the detectives involved in prior rp of an investigation, have the right to  do that otherwise he can ask if he can search a vehicle)

- If the vehicle is around an Illegal area and is stationary waiting for someone or scouting the area.

• Detectives should not on a normal search take the radio from the person examine it's frequency then give it back.

 

• OOC TOXICITY :

 

• We all know that there is a lot of Officers that abuse their RP power to arrest other gangs because they just don't like them on their crim or they just want to be toxic with them. The same thing comes back to the criminals, they should not be toxic towards an officer if this officer's alt is a crim in another gang.
• Officers should not be looking and chasing certain type of vehicles just because they hate the gang or hate certain people unless they were assigned to. In this case it would be appreciated from the HC that is assigning those people to pick neutral people to do it towards the gang and try to avoid creating any king of TOXICITY.
• All players should try as much as they can not to create any OOC toxicity from performing specific actions.

 

• Charge Stacking :

 

• This section is one of the most important, it sometimes comes related with the previous section. Not a single officer or any kind of HC should be able to STACK charges on a person. We all know how bad is the economy with the criminals, some are very rich because they made their money ages ago and some are so poor. When placing a charge keep in mind the fines that this person would get. People should not be charged with every single thing you get just because they might have done it or if so.... The fines should be reduced on each charge. 

- EXAMPLES:

In a pursuit, the driver drives recklessly to avoid getting arrested. The charges would be : -Felony evading.

Some officers would like to add felony public endangerment as "yes he ran a pole", reckless driving also, failure to comply, Assault with a deadly weapon against a gov employee if by accident rams a cruiser.

• In the end, this is a game and everyone wants to enjoy it from both sides and there was a lot of times where going on duty was boring because of stack charging the criminals and they will have to serve ridiculous amount of time in jail and pay shit ton of fines.

 

As I already said I am suggesting this rules to be applied in the factions to adjust the RP on the server... and all the rules mentioned above should not be abused by any party in any time.

Thanks.

 

IF THIS TOPIC GETS FILLED WITH TOXIC REPLIES PLEASE DELETE IT

[Freclan]

.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Freclan
dummy

[Bala]

First of all, I wanna take the opportunity to say I respect the fact you've put your time into reading the thread and tried to approach it from as neutral a position as you can. Second, for context I'm a member of LSPD Command with 23 months experience of cop RP in Ecluose. I'm not speaking for LSPD here, but offering my opinion based on my own experiences and all opinions are solely my own.

---

Charge Stacking

With regards to charge stacking, this tends to be a common misconception. Giving someone the crimes they have committed is not charge stacking. However, an example of charge stacking would be for example if I were arresting you and you resisted arrest multiple times on your way to jail. If I turned around and charged you with multiple counts of resisting arrest, I'd be charge stacking. It is not okay for any cop to place charges for things you have not done, so the maximum you will ever get are the charges for crimes you've committed.

It is possible to felony evade without getting those other charges but 9/10 pursuits the person being chased will use the wrong lane of traffic, will hit various things on the sidewalk etc..

That being said, myself and quite a number of cops will often opt to give a person less charges as a reward for IC compliance or demonstrating good role-play with the cops and keeping things IC. It is of course, case by case but we don't personally benefit out of giving people more charges. 

We're a reactive faction, we respond to what you do. You have the choice and the power, you just don't realise it.

---

Gang Vehicles Being Followed By Cops

I'll be honest, I questioned this at first because I did not understand but then you look at the rap sheet of some of these people being followed. Mass murder, leading or participation in organised crime, countless prison sentences, robberies, you name it. The most dangerous people on the server.

I'm not a part of the Gang Field Unit but in my view, the factions who are getting most of their attention are the same factions that are actively attacking and ambushing law enforcement. LSPD and even SD are peacekeeper factions to things in some sort of order, but when you start turning your guns towards us, that is going to pull the aggro on you in a big way.

I don't like referencing real life too much but if you kill cops IRL as an organised crime group, you're going to have police up your ass a lot more than if you killed another criminal. 
GFU to me seems like a mentality shift by PD but given how things go down, it was a natural and necessary evolution.

If criminals conducted their criminal dealings more covertly, I don't think GFU would be a thing to be honest but because some are so obvious and brazen with how they conduct themselves, a response was needed.

---

OOC Faction Toxicity

I'm not going to bullshit people and pretend like every single person in PD is the most well-behaved, polite, upstanding member of the Eclipse Community. We have over 100 people within our faction and every one of them is different in how they think, feel and act while logged into the server. Just like not every criminal is this and that and the other thing. That being said though, some thing that we do not tolerate is friction or toxicity from our faction members and I think we actively look to either resolve those issues or remove the offenders from the faction entirely. In some respects, I think in some ways PD takes it's OOC standards even more seriously than the IC standards.

As for officers having grudges against factions, I would say this to both a cop and a criminal, Having an IC vendetta against someone or a group is absolutely fine and it's a part of role-play but that mentality should stay with your character. The problem is that it does not. People take it to heart and they take it out of game. Criminals do this more than cops but to be honest some cops do it too.

Ultimately, I do think how LSPD chooses to conduct itself is an in-character issue and it's between the faction leaders and server staff if anything needs to be tweaked. I don't think it's a matter of public debate or for the criminal side of the community to have a say in, any more than someone would expect PD to have a say in how criminals choose to operate.

[DeRose]

+1

[Victor Einhart]

On 2/3/2021 at 8:27 PM, DaMasterSplinter said:

The people should not be pulled out

Just want to touch on this point, this is a realistic request and isn't even related to someone being arrested or not. Officers can ask you to step out if they want to try and control the situation, and it's actually a de-escalation measure if they think the person might drive off. Having someone outside the vehicle prevents things from escalating into a pursuit over something silly like a traffic ticket. Look up the US case law Pennsylvania v. Mimms.

If players just put a gun in their trunk and said the words "I'm not answering any questions," you'd almost never be arrested during a traffic stop unless you had outstanding warrants or were doing some absolutely ridiculous driving before the stop even started.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Vigil]

Considering how much RP PD and SD can influence and drive, I personally feel that the exp requirement for a character should be a lot higher that 5,000 to apply for these factions and should more likely be a similar exp requirement that official gangs (50-75k) require for their recruits to show they are really invested in the character.

 

[RAttlesnake7473]

+1

[Xoza]

Greetings,

These threads come up often, because often, someone is not happy with their experience with law enforcement. Just to touch on a few topics beforehand, most seem generally not aware of they should consider when dealing with Police both IC and OOC.

• IC
  1. Law enforcement keeps track of just about everything. If you've had an encounter with police, they know about you, the more encounters, the more they know.
  2. True, Law enforcement doesn't always have the best attitude, because they deal with criminal elements all day. But, it's still IC. Surpisingly, I've not many individuals actually reach out to me OOCly about things.
  3. There's a lot 'behind the scenes' that drives actions, just because you don't know what they are, doesn't mean they don't exist. Very rarely do officers do something, without a good reason, there are a lot of restrictions and regulations. See point 1. for possible reasons.
  4. You can submit a complaint against an officer, this isn't something you can do with any other entity and everything is reviewed.
  5. Yes, officers do get in trouble and challenged for their actions, though you may not know exactly what for and when.
  6. Time served is based on charges acquired. These could span for days or months, they all add up, every action has a consequence.
  7. Law enforcement are trained and continually trained throughout their career.
  8. Law enforcement personnel can say anything to influence a situation or person, just like you can.
• OOC
  1. 90% of it is IC.
  2. Law enforcement is a highly maintained faction with a ton of oversight.
  3. There is motivation for everything.
  4. No one is perfect, very few have RL law enforcement experience. A lot of study, subject matter experts and contacts do exist, to maintain the closest experience to RL.
  5. IC law enforcement is very different then OOC law enforcement. Not only is there are a lot more actions RL law enforcement can take, then we do IC, but our 'IC world' is also different.
  6. Players are often not unreasonable people and respond in kind. OOC toxicity is filtered out very quickly.
  7. Players spend more time 'working', then playing, but it's a type of work they enjoy.

And as @Bala stated.

16 hours ago, Bala said:

We're a reactive faction, we respond to what you do. You have the choice and the power, you just don't realise it.

Now, on to your points.

 

17 hours ago, DaMasterSplinter said:

First of all, we all know about how dying the crim RP is nowadays : - While I agree it could do with some improvements, I also believe there's a lot of potential still.

• Performing 10-55's on vehicle because they are gang colored vehicles:
  • To start, we all know that when we see a Green/Grey/Red/Brown vehicles, it would be most likely be gang affiliated. The RP should be adjust to... - 'Displaying colors' is something that's done IRL as well, however, it's done more discreetly, and even then, police find out these 'codes'.
  • None vehicle should be pulled over because they *MIGHT* have guns in the vehicle, unless there was prior rp that lead to that and the rp would be valid for 1-2 hour max... - Police can pull over any vehicle for just about any reason, further engagement and RP, often requires and has a reason behind it, which follows police policies of which players are required to follow else face consequences IC, and OOC if serious.

• During the 10-55's :
  • I would suggest when the lead unit in a 10-55 is not a detective or a Gang field unit...  The people should not be pulled out or asked about guns unless the reason was related... - As stated, officers can interact with anyone on any level, it's the further actions that require following policies. Officers ask questions, determine facts, actions and motivations, and they should always do so.
  • During the 10-55, The officer should not ask the people to step out if they don't have the right to search the vehicle/player (I understand the time officers tell them to step out but does... - Again, the officer can 'ask' anyone to do anything, and request consent to search vehicles, unless there is more reason to do so without consent, this is ingrained into officers actions for months and there are certain circumstances and permissions, that have been granted a little deviation, especially as situations grow.

 

• Detectives: 
  • Detectives job might change with that as they don't have the right to pull out people of their cars as they are Gang Affiliated, but:... - There's a lot more in Detective RP then people realize and they learn a lot more as well, including questioning and motivation. They often spend hours to months, figuring out intricate details, often more than needed to place charges. Again, law enforcement collects a ton of information about people and their actions.
  • Detectives should not on a normal search take the radio from the person examine it's frequency then give it back... - Why not? Remember, information is key to the job.

 

• OOC TOXICITY :
  • We all know that there is a lot of Officers that abuse their RP power to arrest other gangs because they just don't like them on their crim or they just want to be toxic with them. The same thing comes back to the criminals, they should not be toxic towards an officer if this officer's alt is a crim in another gang. - This is metagaming, if you have any proof of this, please reach out to faction leadership or file an OOC IA report, more often than not though, while it could be begrudgingly, there's still a reason, and one may not help the other.
  • Officers should not be looking and chasing certain type of vehicles just because they hate the gang or hate certain people unless they were assigned to... - There are a lot of cases assigned to a lot of different people, and there's always a motivation behind what people do. If you believe the motivation is OOC, please report it, but we can't tell players that they can't RP with other players because of possible cross character conflicts.
  • All players should try as much as they can not to create any OOC toxicity from performing specific actions. - If you have any concerns about this, law enforcement is heavily moderated, please submit a report to the faction leaders.

 

• Charge Stacking :
  • This section is one of the most important, it sometimes comes related with the previous section. Not a single officer or any kind of HC should be able to STACK charges on a person. - 'charge stacking' is not permitted via policies, however, each and every action has a consequence. If you have questions about charges, the penal code is a public document. Since players aren't jailed for years, fines are higher to permit earlier release, but still have a looming 'debt' to the state.

In a pursuit, the driver drives recklessly to avoid getting arrested. The charges would be : -Felony evading. - Someone simply and only evading, is 'Felony Evading'. Someone evading recklessly, begins to accumulate additional charges, like Reckless Endangerment, Reckless Driving, Hit and Run, and many others, depending on the situation. This is how it is IRL as well, if you look up citizens being charged. They 'face' several crimes, all pertaining to the situation they were involved.

Some officers would like to add felony public endangerment as "yes he ran a pole", reckless driving also, failure to comply, Assault with a deadly weapon against a gov employee if by accident rams a cruiser. - Covered above, situational.

• In the end, this is a game and everyone wants to enjoy it from both sides and there was a lot of times where going on duty was boring because of stack charging the... - I agree, this is a game and everyone should be able to and enjoy playing, however it is also an RP server and actions have consequences. If you roll into a gang hideout and shout some insults, they definitely aren't going to let you leave, with your car, hair, and maybe clothing..

As I already said I am suggesting this rules to be applied in the factions to adjust the RP on the server... and all the rules mentioned above should not be abused by any party in any time. - Many rules for the faction already apply, mostly IC and if broken an breach OOC corruption rules.

In the end, I don't believe anyone is unreasonable, or don't want to have a conversation about it, but it's a conversation that comes up a lot, It's often very broad with 'the whole of', when very often, it's very few, often approved RP or based on information that is not revealed publicly.

If you want a little insight or have any questions, feel free to reach out to an officer IC and there are also community members that stream law enforcement.

[Percival]

As my fellow PD members have spoken, I 100% agree with their comments.

But just to add onto this, gearing towards the IC matters, like it is as is, other than OOC toxicity, much of it is IC. I hate to say this, but the matters can be better or should be dealt with in an IC capacity. With the introduction of the court system very soon to come, it only means Internal Affairs will not be the only entity reviewing law enforcement and criminal conduct. Parties will be given the opportunity to argue their cases in an IC capacity.

 

Again, I would suggest bringing up these matters ICly.

[awp8883]

In my personal opinion, gangs should not have "gang color" cars. It is not realistic to tell everyone what gang your in from your vehicle. If you have a supercar, or a cool classic car, then it makes sense to color it to your gang color, but not every car you own. Clothes make sense, not cars.

[Frezas]

I am in one of the law factions and I can tell you, that as playing officer I abandoned crim alt so I wouldn't make any decisions based on emotion of my alt, but from my experience in the field, those rules about ''Telling people to step out only with valid reason'' doesn't help as they exist, but if someone is rude and is trying to provoke you. You simply ask them to step out, I have performed a lot of 10-55 and if someone is polite with me it goes even without any ticket only with a warning, lets take from IRL, try to be provoking to an officer I dare you, in my country you are going to be dragged out and searched and your home would be searched even if you were 100 kilometers away from them. Gangs should stop make provokations and officers should try to be polite as we are all human beings playing the same game to enjoy. Peace.

[GR_Seb]

On 2/4/2021 at 3:27 AM, DaMasterSplinter said:

To start, we all know that when we see a Green/Grey/Red/Brown vehicles, it would be most likely be gang affiliated. The RP should be adjust to... There should be a valid reason to pull over a vehicle that did not violate any traffic rules.

So to you, pulling over something to be most likely a gang affiliated vehicle not realistic?

 

 

On 2/4/2021 at 3:27 AM, DaMasterSplinter said:

• During the 10-55's :

 

• I would suggest when the lead unit in a 10-55 is not a detective or a Gang field unit...  The people should not be pulled out or asked about guns unless the reason was related to the weapons or it is an arrest.

In real life, only detectives will ask if theres any weapons in the vehicle? No, all traffic officers ask it.

 

 

On 2/4/2021 at 3:27 AM, DaMasterSplinter said:

Detectives should not on a normal search take the radio from the person examine it's frequency then give it back.

The most common way for gang affiliated members to communicate is the radio. Isn't this the best way for a detective to get information?

 

On 2/4/2021 at 3:27 AM, DaMasterSplinter said:

In a pursuit, the driver drives recklessly to avoid getting arrested. The charges would be : -Felony evading.

Some officers would like to add felony public endangerment as "yes he ran a pole", reckless driving also, failure to comply, Assault with a deadly weapon against a gov employee if by accident rams a cruiser.

So, let's say that you have a kamacho and we pull you over. We tell you to show us your licenses, you say no and you start your engine to evade.


Then you start evading from police and we iniciate a pursuit on you.


And the way you're driving to avoid us, you go way above the speed limit, going over the incorrect lane of traffic on a highway, driving over sidewalks, crossing over intersections with a normal 150/180 km per hour in the city, driving around banks and hospitals or the pier. 



And most of the time you'll get yourself one more charge solely by driving around the city cameras.



So, do you believe it's fair for someone that commits 4 crimes to get charged with 1? It's not great but.. it's honestly because of what you do. Simply, evade and drive properly.


I am replying as a user of Eclipse Roleplay and it's my honest opinion despite that I am part of LSPD.

[DaMasterSplinter]

Hello, I would like to thank everyone who made a reply on this post and I will be addressing the new things

 

Everyone mentioned about the fact that you commit multiple crimes why you should be charged by one. To start of we all know this is a GAME and therefore you should keep in mind that everyone is here to have fun. We all know that the charges that get placed are sometimes unnecessary just because Cops have the right to do so.

It comes to the point where PD abuse their in-game power and locks up people behind their PCs for hours and won't enjoy it as we all know the RP in DOC is not nice unless you have  good Rpers with you. 

There used to be 1 or 2 cops that charges everything just to laugh at the people and make fun of them that they are getting locked up and because they hate them. But sadly now these numbers grew a lot and now we have 14-18 cops that would do anything to arrest you which is a bit weird. You might say yes but PD need to be holding the city's safety but at this point the Crim RP becomes useless as they can not roleplay anything without staying after it 4-5 hours behind their screen at DOC doing nothing specially when the IC "lockdown" which legit puts you in a situation where you have to sit there afk as there is nothing to do.  

Maybe changing the prison hours might help but I hardly believe it would happen.

As Papadakis stated above, it s a very common situation the guy will be behind his screen for 2 hours 45 mins, just for evading and not showing the license. PD should consider the fact that criminals should not show their licenses that easy to the officers as it would be poor RP but these people are scared of sitting behind their PCs doing nothing so they just limit their RP. 

I would like to give an example:

A guy get pulled over for speeding ( reckless operation 20 minutes), he decides to evade as he has a gun( illegal firearm 60 mins / Felony evading 60 mins) he drives around in high speed and PD smashes everything around (Felony Public Endangerment 60 mins) then he gets out and attempts to shoot the cop which he fails as they have smgs/pumps with a fat body armor. (att murder of a GOV employee around 65 mins / brandishing a firearm around 20 mins) . All did the man RP as a crim is turn on that vehicle, speed and shoot if he was even able 1 or 2 bullets in the end then he goes to jail for 4 hours 45 mins. Who would like to sit there for that amount of time, I would rather not RP crim at all and server 1 hour and 20 minutes which will be bad to the server as there is not much Crim RP happening.

Everyone does not like how Big gangs fight with big numbers but sadly that's the only crim rp available between 2 rival gangs and they do so cause PD does not give them any good RP back and we all know that.

 

We have seen lately some bans over people that tried to RP with cops but went bad. When a gang related vehicle gets pulled over, backup will be called and they will be pulled out of the car and searched more than 100% as this is what I have encountered being in the 67 Faction we will be back later on that point. If the person who got pulled over has a shotgun/ak/micro/SMG on him it would be Poor RP from himself if he stands still and let the traffic stop roll normally as he is making a high risk of getting himself in jail and he should not. Maybe you can not shoot the cop but if you try to put him in a trunk which is the fastest way and with very low risk as you are not taking your time on the scene or if you are in at north and not on the highway you could maybe cuff him or something else. Cause in the end the guy will be arrested for illegal firearms/ weapon modification if there is any and he will lose his Heavy which cost 40k+ that means he lost around 48k+ and spent 1 hout 30 mins in jail. 

 

Talking about the past interaction I had with PD in the 67 faction. For some reason there is always a cop sitting at the HQ watching us and waits for anyone of us to get in his car and drive then they pull him over and get his license and demands to search the car. ( WE ALL KNOW THERE WOULD BE A GUN IN THE VEHICLE AS CRIMINALS SHOULD HAVE IT AS ITS BASED ON THEIR RP AND ITS A GAME WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO KEEP IN CONSIDERATION TO CREATE SOME ROLEPLAY TO OTHERS AND NOT SEND THEM TO DOC TO SIT BEHIND A SCREEN)

which will end up with him going to jail, sadly after it the cop will go back to the HQ sit there and wait for another one which makes no sense at all after you arrested a gang member to go to the gang HQ, RPLY AND REALISTCLY you should be in fear of this gang to come after you as you arrested one of their own but the DM rules are strict and sadly we cant risk 50k to fight a cop with a fat ass FREE armor and a FREE heavy because we want to show some good rp as we are taking revenge. We all know PD is OP since the beginning and crim rp is not much but to make a balance in RP something should be made.

SPECIALLY with the new GANG FIELD UNIT, where all the cops in it become cops that trashtalks the gang members and makes fun of them, which I find very poor RP for 9 cops to trashtalk a gang member and IC "IA" can not do anything about it. I do not really know how they work but all they do is try to find anything just to arrest us maybe for a IC promotion? And they go out arresting anyone for anything. When you have 2 things related for the same stuff, FACE CONCEALMENT there is the charge and there is the ticket, if you see someone on the road you can give him a ticket and not get him in jail for face concealment only just to stack your logs for a promotion. Cause then why is there even the other charge. Sadly I am typing this to say that our roleplay is being ruined by PD as they do not show any PD RP in their roleplay. Shooting a guy that is running on foot to escape cops, camping at a gang HQ waiting for anyone to commit a crime to arrest him to be promoted when RPLY you should patrol once or twice there and not sit in front of them and trash talking them / making fun of them as they should Fear for their life as RPLY we would all have guns but we put them away to not serve 1 hour time in DOC.

 

PD SHOULD NOT TRY THEIR BEST TO ARREST EVERYONE, maybe 1 or 2 cops can roleplay that but not the whole faction.

 

PD are friends with each other and don't complain about each other so if they see someone they friend with or is higher than them breach any IC rule they wont say anything about it to not be treated badly which I find non-rp as the HC of the faction should provide the best quality of roleplay as they represent one of the most important faction on the server and they should stay away from the OOC toxicity which is kind of going down for now.. 

[Victor Einhart]

1 hour ago, DaMasterSplinter said:

A guy get pulled over for speeding ( reckless operation 20 minutes), he decides to evade as he has a gun( illegal firearm 60 mins / Felony evading 60 mins) he drives around in high speed and PD smashes everything around (Felony Public Endangerment 60 mins) then he gets out and attempts to shoot the cop which he fails as they have smgs/pumps with a fat body armor. (att murder of a GOV employee around 65 mins / brandishing a firearm around 20 mins) . All did the man RP as a crim is turn on that vehicle, speed and shoot if he was even able 1 or 2 bullets in the end then he goes to jail for 4 hours 45 mins. Who would like to sit there for that amount of time, I would rather not RP crim at all and server 1 hour and 20 minutes which will be bad to the server as there is not much Crim RP happening.

What would happen if one of y'all just bought a large transport truck, organized with your truck buddy to block an alleyway, and have your truck buddy run into your passenger seat. Then you disappear under a bridge. This is just one example of things crims can do to EASILY evade police. But very few people do things like this. Very few people actually think of smart strategies when they are committing crimes then they wonder why they get caught. If your time or the items you're carrying are so precious, do some thinking beforehand.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Freclan]

2 hours ago, DaMasterSplinter said:

I do not really know how they work

should probably leave it at that then, you're just making assumptions

[CoastalChain67]

57 minutes ago, Freclan said:

should probably leave it at that then, you're just making assumptions

That one sentence is what you read out of his 1355 words argument, of him trying to find a compromise which can already be predicted, is failing by so far because you're not willing to make compromises for players to enjoy their gameplay on the server. 

The fact that a detective cruiser would just follow you around whilst you're driving following the road rules & regulations and then pull you over when you go 5 over the limit or run a speed light, or fail to yield apparently, is unrealistic if you ask me. There are different tiers of gangs, some are strong, some are weak, the weak ones you can pressure down and keep them under a rule of thumb but the ones of high scale such like the gangs that have official access/cartel access, that can import a stream of heavy artillery and whatnot should be considered armed & dangerous to even approach but the fact that we cannot attack the police officers makes them think we're such idiots with no power, so they just pull over and they just dominate you with their heavy voices "Step out of the vehicle or you will be forced out the vehicle, I'm asking you last time." Say you do that infront of a gang member with mad connections IRL, you'll be wishing it ends well for you IRL but in here there's no connections & ties to a character, it's one person behind their computer screen playing a character with nothing to lose, while we have a lot to lose in that situation, the money we spend, the time we spend doing numerous things to get that grind going, but all you have to do is just order us to step out of the vehicle or force will be used, and there goes the whole gang v. PD mentality, that you've gotta stack charges against the person.

Lately I've had so many gang meetings interpreted by PD, fact is out of 10 meetings only 1 or 2 have been successful without PD just jumping in there and ruining everything while a gang's just trying to create RP ops. Now that right there I believe is piss poor RP standards, fact is we're just stood at a piece of land, most likely a private property not hurting or harming anyone. It's a gang meeting, all armed & dangerous to approach, which I'd think the PD would apply the mentality that it's too risky to approach, due to the fact that we're possibly armed however we're not directly endangering any human population at that point it's just us trying to talk things out, they still think pushing in is a smart idea. Now in a situation like that, there's no winning due to the fact that PD are armed with heavy weapons all of them, they get them for free and the armor they're strapped with is just mad good. They would tank your bullets and before you know it, you run out of bullets. 

If I look at pictures of police officers, they wear light plate carriers that go below their shirt, the one that's 50 armor in the game, they do not wear a giant vest strapped to their body just for regular patrol, only some of them do, which in this case every patrol officers do have them strapped to their chest making them a tank to bullets being fired at them.

We've made so many compromises over the time, I cannot even say made actually, we were forced to make as we weren't provided any say in things, such like the tables just exploding extremely randomly if we had to consider one example. I had 40 tables blow up on me before it even let out one batch as I had just started cooking, even before it could brew a batch of drugs, there goes 320k worth of tables at the rate of 8k$ per table, ingredients worth over 100k, water bottles, the briefcases, all adding them up to over 450-500k worth of items just lost there, which wouldn't be the opportunity of every crim to get them at that rate. They've gotta go through gangs which then charge commission so if it's 10k per table, that's 100k for 10 tables already and 10 tables is a really slow production time, so that means more chances for them to blow up and so on. 

I know all these points are going to be negated, but if you have a moment to think about them and put yourself in the position we're in, you might actually understand what I'm trying to imply. Thanks for reading.

Edited June 27, 2021 by CoastalChain67

[Freclan]

39 minutes ago, CoastalChain67 said:

That one sentence is what you read out of his 1355 words argument

No I read all of it, you're complaining about wanting us to step into your shoes when you haven't even thought of how much planning goes into this sort of stuff from PDs side. Without revealing too much information there are hours of work from PD's side that has gone into documentation and the gang field unit, to say what we're doing is piss poor rp is frankly insulting. PD is a reactionary faction and if you are going around acting like you are El Chapo why are you suprised when there's cruisers following your every move?

 

42 minutes ago, CoastalChain67 said:

Now in a situation like that, there's no winning due to the fact that PD are armed with heavy weapons all of them,

So PD wins in this situation yet you are arguing that we shouldn't go in because we're supposed to think we'll lose? This doesn't make any sense.

 

All in all it's down to how you approach roleplaying as a criminal, I know many smart criminals that I hardly interact with because they know what they are doing yet I come across the same 10-20 people daily because of their actions. Instead of complaining about what PD are doing why don't you change your approach.

[hrxvey]

On 2/4/2021 at 1:27 AM, DaMasterSplinter said:

RP ADJUSMENT

 

• START :

We all know how the last complaints about PD/SD went with Toxic comments which leaded for the Topics to be taken down or Locked. Myself being in one of the factions, I would like to suggest some adjustments. If you like my ideas I would appreciate a +1 and if you think you can add something to them feel free to reply too ( Make sure it keeps the balance between Crim and PD). I did not see any topic talking about hose points so I decided to add them. 

I don't know English that much but will try my best.

IDEAS :

First of all, we all know about how dying the crim RP is nowadays :

• Performing 10-55's on vehicle because they are gang colored vehicles:

 

• To start, we all know that when we see a Green/Grey/Red/Brown vehicles, it would be most likely be gang affiliated. The RP should be adjust to... There should be a valid reason to pull over a vehicle that did not violate any traffic rules... Impeding traffic should not be a reason used so often if the vehicle is on the side of the road as we all know this is a game and sometimes we have to leave for a sec then come back.
• None vehicle should be pulled over because they *MIGHT* have guns in the vehicle, unless there was prior rp that lead to that and the rp would be valid for 1-2 hour max. For Criminal factions, if a robbery gets placed and the victim gets killed... both parties should forget what happened and wait for new escalation. The same thing should be applied with PD/SD. We all know that the people inside the vehicles will be armed from a .50 to a heavy.

 

• During the 10-55's :

 

• I would suggest when the lead unit in a 10-55 is not a detective or a Gang field unit...  The people should not be pulled out or asked about guns unless the reason was related to the weapons or it is an arrest. This will reflect too on the Criminals. They should not try to ambush the officers over a 1st degree speeding ticket or a small thing... All that to remain themselves low and not drag any attention on them ( we all know about the huge ambush that happened on the Highway Bridge all over a 5 mins jail time which lead to a chaos in the community discord). 
• During the 10-55, The officer should not ask the people to step out if they don't have the right to search the vehicle/player (I understand the time officers tell them to step out but does not give the player the reason why, but that is ICly) I already know that a lot of officers abuse this thing and pulls out people cause they know they already have weapons on them, if it is not visible for the officers he should never tell him to step out because he knows he has a gun and then the reason for the man's arrest would be carrying unlicensed/ possession of illegal.... . Officers can rp checking the vehicle for any guns, and while rping if they don't see the gun in their POV the guy in the vehicle should answer with he would not see anything. ( The players should understand the fact that Micro SMG with full attachments might be seen even tho he is "Sitting on it"). Both Parties should not abuse the fact and take it as an advantage. If the vehicle is a normal vehicle let's say an Elegy, the officer can see the interior of the vehicle, but if it is a kamacho with a full door on the sides, it would be hard for a person to be able to see the interior of the vehicle.

 

• Detectives:

 

• Detectives job might change with that as they don't have the right to pull out people of their cars as they are Gang Affiliated, but:

- If they are on an investigation or any sort of that they can pull out the people as they might be involved in a past scene ( Only the detectives involved in prior rp of an investigation, have the right to  do that otherwise he can ask if he can search a vehicle)

- If the vehicle is around an Illegal area and is stationary waiting for someone or scouting the area.

• Detectives should not on a normal search take the radio from the person examine it's frequency then give it back.

 

• OOC TOXICITY :

 

• We all know that there is a lot of Officers that abuse their RP power to arrest other gangs because they just don't like them on their crim or they just want to be toxic with them. The same thing comes back to the criminals, they should not be toxic towards an officer if this officer's alt is a crim in another gang.
• Officers should not be looking and chasing certain type of vehicles just because they hate the gang or hate certain people unless they were assigned to. In this case it would be appreciated from the HC that is assigning those people to pick neutral people to do it towards the gang and try to avoid creating any king of TOXICITY.
• All players should try as much as they can not to create any OOC toxicity from performing specific actions.

 

• Charge Stacking :

 

• This section is one of the most important, it sometimes comes related with the previous section. Not a single officer or any kind of HC should be able to STACK charges on a person. We all know how bad is the economy with the criminals, some are very rich because they made their money ages ago and some are so poor. When placing a charge keep in mind the fines that this person would get. People should not be charged with every single thing you get just because they might have done it or if so.... The fines should be reduced on each charge. 

- EXAMPLES:

In a pursuit, the driver drives recklessly to avoid getting arrested. The charges would be : -Felony evading.

Some officers would like to add felony public endangerment as "yes he ran a pole", reckless driving also, failure to comply, Assault with a deadly weapon against a gov employee if by accident rams a cruiser.

• In the end, this is a game and everyone wants to enjoy it from both sides and there was a lot of times where going on duty was boring because of stack charging the criminals and they will have to serve ridiculous amount of time in jail and pay shit ton of fines.

 

As I already said I am suggesting this rules to be applied in the factions to adjust the RP on the server... and all the rules mentioned above should not be abused by any party in any time.

Thanks.

 

IF THIS TOPIC GETS FILLED WITH TOXIC REPLIES PLEASE DELETE IT

i feel the need to reply to this topic as i have a very strong opinion to what @DaMasterSplinter has said in this. PD has not changed in a long while regarding the power that they have and in my opinion they were balanced when things like joint-freqs were allowed and the backup rule wasnt a thing. PD were made to be slightly more powerful than the average criminal and this was in my opinion the perfect balance, however as criminals have been nerfed, PD has been kept the exact same. (for example the police being able to have better body armor and be able to select their guns from their car regarding the situation that they are put in.). Criminals have had nothing but nerfs in the past few months and i personally believe that the police should be balanced out to be equal with the criminals. I understand that the police should be more powerful than criminals as they are a government funded faction(s) but at the end of the day, this is just a roleplay server.

 

Personally as a criminal on the server, there is almost 0 reason to fight the police due to how powerful they are and alot of the punishments that you get ICly almost feel like an ooc punishment due to the vast amount of time that you can be put into prison. (this is only my first response and if people would like to counter my argument i am more than happy to hear your side of the story).

[Golldy]

7 hours ago, DaMasterSplinter said:

Everyone does not like how Big gangs fight with big numbers but sadly that's the only crim rp available between 2 rival gangs and they do so cause PD does not give them any good RP back and we all know that.

Tbh those two rival gangs should get some more knowledge on how gangs interact to each other IRL. I wouldn't call "big number fights" a RP at all because it's all done mechanically, you just shoot each other out and then brag in DOC about that in front of everyone. There are numerous ways to RP rivalry and make it interesting to everyone, and it doesn't just require taking big guns and going to shoot everything out. Also, the fact that 7 out of 10 criminals freely speaks about how he just clapped someone or how he's a hardcore gangster in front of law enforcement is a big NRP to me. Same as PD should not camp in the middle of gang's turf alone also crims should not show up in public areas with their gang colored cars, exclusive masks (which are also exclusively used during all the illegal activity) and talk about how you're OG gangster and mobster and you f*** everyone up. because it's just random nonsense. And if you do... Then just accept the consequences of having a target on your back, because IC'ly PD definitely know what you do.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Golldy

[Asuna.]

Gangs with rivalries barely ever try to sort out their disputes. Meaning the only RP they have is shooting each other. Maybe if you see a stranded member of an opposing gang have a conversation with them instead of immediately thinking rob and shoot. Creates a better atmosphere and respect among the community. Also if crims want more RP, what is stopping you from creating your own RP like Aztecas and Irish did. Robbing a jewellery store with a full plan and a lot of numbers. RP taking out the cameras and finding out info as to how many security operatives they will have, revise police patrol patterns to find out which time of day this would be best to attack. All of this is just 1 case of RP crims can do but they do not. Crims complain a lot about RP but have a play to win mentality, not speaking for all but I have noticed this over the time of me playing legal and crim.

 

Host events for gangs to interact with each other:

I know that Irish do this often with steamboat, they allow all gangs in to mingle and enjoy themselves as they value the RP as well as the shooting side of gang wars. There is nothing stopping you creating your own RP. If you have any questions about setting up some unique RP, /report 1 always works. 

[DaMasterSplinter]

Hello,

I like the Idea that Einhart gave but sadly it is really hard to set up such a thing first, there would be super behind your car all the time and it will be hard for you to get a gap on it, and not everyone has trucks available everywhere, second of all if the guy blocks them and jumps in the other car they will shoot his tires with micro/carbine/smg because the people in the super would be armed so. Then both go to jail which means you are putting a high risk on the individual to go to jail too, and if he says it was by accident PD will be like "yee yee get in the cruiser" then they charge him and he goes for a good while.

2 hours ago, Bailey Snow said:

have a play to win mentality

So you are saying criminals have a play to win mentality, trust me if we had that or not we always lose lad. Second of all, PD make their best to win every situation, through RP/Rules and everything I have witnessed a lot of situations where cops try to RP anything to win the thing specially if they have ooc issues with this people. I don't know why you are saying that but like in the end we all know who does it.

You are talking about Irish doing some RP stuff, well I was never talking about this kind of RP.

7 hours ago, Freclan said:

All in all it's down to how you approach roleplaying as a criminal, I know many smart criminals that I hardly interact with because they know what they are doing yet I come across the same 10-20 people daily because of their actions. Instead of complaining about what PD are doing why don't you change your approach.

I was myself in PD and I have seen a lot of stuff and I know a lot too, but I won't be sharing it or anything over here. You are saying that we need to change our approach. Gang members should be at their HQ as they should be there RPly if you go there and try to find something to arrest us on it I find it really poor RP.

 

8 hours ago, Freclan said:

should probably leave it at that then, you're just making assumptions

This Topic was very clean, and there is a lot of information in it, so please refrain from any toxicity in it. Thanks.

[Dimja]

10 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

What would happen if one of y'all just bought a large transport truck, organized with your truck buddy to block an alleyway, and have your truck buddy run into your passenger seat. Then you disappear under a bridge. This is just one example of things crims can do to EASILY evade police. But very few people do things like this. Very few people actually think of smart strategies when they are committing crimes then they wonder why they get caught. If your time or the items you're carrying are so precious, do some thinking beforehand.

9/10 times when you do such a block with a truck, PD will pass the charges onto the guy who blocks with a big truck. Example; Accesory to felony evading, accesory to felony public endangerment, accesory to failure to maintain lane, obstruction of justice etc etc.

I am not aware of how many times you have evaded police, but with 10 cruisers chasing you (one or two HSU) and a police chopper, simply going under a bridge that gets blocked with a truck is not making you lose them.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Dimja

[freshprinceIE]

1 hour ago, Dimja said:

9/10 times when you do such a block with a truck, PD will pass the charges onto the guy who blocks with a big truck. Example; Accesory to felony evading, accesory to felony public endangerment, accesory to failure to maintain lane, obstruction of justice etc etc.

I mean yeah... He committed accessory to felony evading so got charged with it. He needed to evade.

Someone tried it once to us at the grove chop. He drove a truck out at the alley, blocking it but he just timed it a bit wrong.

Time it correctly, with a backup plan and escape plan and it can work. Even if it fails, now you've split that pursuit into two pursuits, making it easier for both of you to evade ( when compared with full resources chasing one guy).

Anyway, the point is to try other things to evade. If you drive around with heavy weapons visible, then commit crimes (even speeding), then that's on you.

[alexalex303]

I'd like to bring attention to a very common misconception in this thread, which is to call anything that is inconvenient to you "unrealistic".

A Detective or a Gang Officer getting you out of the car because he suspects that you might have weapons is inconvenient to you. It is not unrealistic.

A Detective or a Gang Officer pulling you over for a minor traffic violation in order to try to escalate into an arrest is inconvenient to you. It is not unrealistic.

In terms of getting you out of the car, it is very well established that a law enforcement officer can and will get you out of the car if he believes you to be armed, which, like everyone in this thread admitted, most gang members are. There is absolutely nothing unrealistic about that. See this: https://youtu.be/vaTPbEGNu-g?t=25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms

In terms of pulling you over for small stuff in order to try to escalate it during the traffic stop, the technical term for is is a pretextual stop. It is used by law enforcement officers extensively, and it was declared constitutional by the Supreme Court. See this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whren_v._United_States

Therefore, I'd like to ask everyone that is trying to have a reasonable discussion, based in facts, and not feelings, to make sure that they do not let their feelings cloud their judgement. You can make the argument that it is inconvenient for you, you can make the argument that it shouldn't happen in a video game. You can make many more arguments.

However, you can not state that it is unrealistic for law enforcement to use known and documented legal techniques against known gang members that are color banging in 2021. That is arguing in bad faith, and using emotions rather than facts, and at that stage, it is very hard to take your complaints seriously.

Edited June 27, 2021 by alexalex303

[Percival]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:14 AM, Papadakis said:

Simply, evade and drive properly.

+1