Criminals and Cops Alike

[Marcusandrew31]

OK so I'm starting this Discussion because lately i have seen This server turn into a Criminal vs Cop Sim. which dont get me wrong cops have to do their job, but i wanted to open this to have both the criminals and cops talk to each other here to try and figure out things and compromises for both parties to enjoy the time in the server. Keep in mind i dont mean having cops back up from fights and so on but i mean instead of always harassing criminals , for example the (Cop) and (Azteca) situation, i watched this unfold and i could understand both sides of the story, the person who is a cop and has complete rights to do what he did and the Azteca, a known criminal.  who had just served time in jail and was being pulled over and asked millions of redundant and annoying questions. Cops who do this kind off RP where they just constantly be annoying because they can and nothing is stopping them from it is not fun for anyone, its more annoying and its almost like harassment. this is my opinion... shit on it if you like, but i think that if both parties can just talk to each other on how they feel about the other party, then maybe we can come to some sort of compromise or something like that, i think that would not only be good for the criminal world and Cop world, but for the server too. Please dont turn this into an argument, lets just talk. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Sodapopcurtis

[Qiang]

main issue is as PD officer you can do any thing you want ,house raid, pulling people over and asking them to step out or over a maybe breaking a traffic stop and search him for a firearm when they are in gang color you can do any thing you want and if you friend try to help you is will go over a OOC punishment starting a gun fight middle of the city is very unrealistic and for sure PD will win that war even if they die you still will get the charges so basically is lose situation . and if goes over a IA report you wanna ask them to punish a officer or kick him form the faction when he found a unlicense firearm on you in unrealistic way ? i don't know how some can carry criminal RP protect his family (gang) with out carrying a gun and this happened by people most of them have alt criminal character 

in the same scenario as criminal you can't pull a PD officer you can't bait them you can't kidnap them , you can't CK when every day they looking for you to just bait you or put you in jail because we have OOC rules about it , i know this all sound very bad over a RP server but we need same rules for official criminal faction 

 

[Victor Einhart]

Perhaps if you stopped carrying a gun on your hip, that detective you hate would stop finding it and you wouldn't go to jail.

[Dray]

13 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

Perhaps if you stopped carrying a gun on your hip, that detective you hate would stop finding it and you wouldn't go to jail.

perhaps if a script didnt force a gun to magically hover on your hip. Realistically there isn't going to be a criminal that was previously in prison for murder, walking around with a pistol around his hip like that, they would hide it. It sucks because you arent even allowed to rp hiding it anymore. It is what it is I guess.

[Victor Einhart]

22 minutes ago, Dray said:

a criminal that was previously in prison for murder, walking around with a pistol around his hip like that, they would hide it

You'd think so, but many walk around with it openly.  Maybe they'd run into fewer problems if they tried to hide it like in a bag or something.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Dray]

Just now, Victor Einhart said:

You'd think so, but many walk around with it openly.  Maybe they'd run into fewer problems if they tried to hide it.

they would hide it if they can...is what I am saying.

[Victor Einhart]

Just now, Dray said:

they would hide it if they can...is what I am saying.

You can hide it, though.  Use a bag or put it in your trunk.  Many people choose not to and they say "how could this be happening to me?" when someone sees it.

[kenichis]

I don't get what there is to talk about on an OOC forum. The situation you describe is something IC. Let me paint you this image, just as an example I'll use the Aztecas like you said before:

An Azteca is involved in a pursuit. At the end of the pursuit, several other Aztecas with similar gang clothing and vehicles ambush and shoot down the original officer in the pursuit, before opening fire on the rest and killing multiple people.

Now you tell me that a gang pulls stunts like these, which if they choose to then from an OOC standpoint thats alright. But as a consequence, our IC reaction would be to increase focus on that group. Sounds fair no?

A good example of this would be WCA which disbanded ages ago, but at a time they chose to be the #1 enemy in the eyes of PD. They chose to RP that way and received the consequence.

Now lets say another gang for example, the recently disbanded Tsukoyomi. While they are a criminal group, they keep most of their actions behind the scenes. There are rare ocurrances where we catch them in the act, but most of the time they rarely ever kill officers publicly. Sure we would make sure they're not causing trouble, but they're not our primary focus.

Now which one would you say would make more sense for an officer to target?

IC choices carry IC consequences. I don't think theres really anything to talk about OOCly.

[Mariaaaa]

I wish cops started talking more like cops instead of boys trash talking like it's some competitive game.

[Danyby]

59 minutes ago, Mariaaaa said:

I wish cops started talking more like cops instead of boys trash talking like it's some competitive game.

I wish cops stop buying arrogant walk style, spawn weapons, take out a patriol and start abusing players. 

[Frezas]

Most people commenting here are crims and god oh god, has anyone of you been in PD faction ? I am a cadet and I saw how gangs are stupid like hell, 90% of people are following the same RP as they did an hour ago so it's easy to predict anything that crims do. Furthermore a lot of you are crying about harrasing but guys as with my civilian ALT I saw how you harass non-gang or law players, if you do like that then yes, police will f.... hunt you and nothing more, you attack citizen, police makes investigation, if they see someone who looks like the one who attacked citizen they detain you and mostly they find guns on you, I would understand if gangs rp'd having blocks where they harass people and do their business there, but randomly attacking and stealing cars results in PD randomly searching you and doing things. And furthermore, if you want cops like DOC guards who get suspended for telling you to fuck off then yeah go ahead complain... LET THE GANGS CONTROL ECLIPSE.

[Dray]

5 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

You can hide it, though.  Use a bag or put it in your trunk.  Many people choose not to and they say "how could this be happening to me?" when someone sees it.

a player like myself that has been a part of the eclipse community for a while and roleplaying as a crim, if seen with a bag like you are stating. I am already suspicious in the eyes of some officers where they will just ask me to step out the car for simply speeding. 

[freshprinceIE]

49 minutes ago, Dray said:

a player like myself that has been a part of the eclipse community for a while and roleplaying as a crim, if seen with a bag like you are stating. I am already suspicious in the eyes of some officers where they will just ask me to step out the car for simply speeding. 

And that's it though? Once your out of the car they can't search you or your vehicle. They can only act if they see a gun hanging off your hip, or if there was a prior RP scenario that granted them IC reason to search you. 

I had the same mindset as some of the people in this thread (although not as bad) until I joined an LEO faction. Both PD/SD have a huge amount of IC restrictions based off of IRL laws that dictate what they can do to you. I seen people on this thread saying that they can just house raid as they want, which is just false. Even if a drug table explodes in a house, there is still RP involved to gain permission to access that house.

If PD does break the law by getting you out of a vehicle and searching you, then you can actually solve this ICly, just like IRL where a case might get thrown out. I did my first IA report against PD this week from my crim, and within 12 hours it was resolved in my favour.

Most people in PD/SD do want to RP as realistic as possible. Majority of the time you are thinking that they have no reason to stop you, but maybe you were spotted leaving the scene of a shootout, maybe a store was robbed right beside you that you didn't know. There is always RP going on, and it may of led to you becoming a suspect.

I think that the majority of experienced crims know a lot of these IC protocols, and know not to be stupid. If your a convicted felon, guess what, we know that you don't have a gun license so don't walk around with it exposed.

Majority of crims bring on things themselves. The ones who complain the most are the ones who do the most shit. I've had people piss on my cruiser, kick it, stick dildos on it and then complain in /b when they get arrested calling it unrealistic... 

[Cyrus Raven]

This thread makes me want to host an IC class on how to he a criminal 101.

[Marcusandrew31]

 

9 hours ago, kenichis said:

An Azteca is involved in a pursuit. At the end of the pursuit, several other Aztecas with similar gang clothing and vehicles ambush and shoot down the original officer in the pursuit, before opening fire on the rest and killing multiple people.

This completely makes sense, i understand that a cop can do this. But what i saw some cops do was not stopping some aztecas after a chase, it was a random stop at a clothing store, and the cop was completely abusing his power as a cop, he was being very childish and promoting very poor rp. he asks the same question over and over to the azteca not letting them leave because if they leave they get in trouble if they stay after they haven't done anything they get in trouble, this cop asked 15 times do you have a gun in the car not letting them leave till he got the answer he wanted, annoying and harassing the other group. this is what im talking about, in what country do cops stop people and ask the same question over and over and over and what cop just stops randoms at a clothing store because they are dressed a certain way. if i sagged my pants in real life and wore red i dont think cops would start stopping me and asking if i had a gun in my car over and over. it just doesn't make the rp at that point fun. 

[Marcusandrew31]

8 hours ago, Frezas said:

Most people commenting here are crims and god oh god, has anyone of you been in PD faction ? I am a cadet and I saw how gangs are stupid like hell, 90% of people are following the same RP as they did an hour ago so it's easy to predict anything that crims do. Furthermore a lot of you are crying about harrasing but guys as with my civilian ALT I saw how you harass non-gang or law players, if you do like that then yes, police will f.... hunt you and nothing more, you attack citizen, police makes investigation, if they see someone who looks like the one who attacked citizen they detain you and mostly they find guns on you, I would understand if gangs rp'd having blocks where they harass people and do their business there, but randomly attacking and stealing cars results in PD randomly searching you and doing things. And furthermore, if you want cops like DOC guards who get suspended for telling you to fuck off then yeah go ahead complain... LET THE GANGS CONTROL ECLIPSE.

Again... it doesn't make sense for a cop to stop you after you haven't done anything, and ask you "do you have a gun in the car" over and over. im sure anyone would be annoyed by being asked the same question after you answered, knowing you did nothing wrong. 

[Dray]

8 hours ago, freshprinceIE said:

Majority of crims bring on things themselves. The ones who complain the most are the ones who do the most shit. I've had people piss on my cruiser, kick it, stick dildos on it and then complain in /b when they get arrested calling it unrealistic... 

tell me why before I even involved myself in this post, I knew at least ONE cop was going to say "its the crims that bring on things themselves" lol. its always the crims bro.

[Cyrus Raven]

3 hours ago, Sodapopcurtis said:

Again... it doesn't make sense for a cop to stop you after you haven't done anything, and ask you "do you have a gun in the car" over and over. im sure anyone would be annoyed by being asked the same question after you answered, knowing you did nothing wrong. 

Most times these questions are asked as a way to trick you into lying if cops already know the answer or gathering information. 

 

All of this is available info even for IRL purposes. Cops don't ask "do you know how fast you were going" or "Do you know why I pulled you over" to be nice, they do it to see if they can get some information they might not have from you. Similarly, they might ask questions they know the answer too like "Do you have a gun on you or in the car", knowing you have one, not only giving them further reason to search you, but also allowing them to add further charges if they feel like it. (Example: Providing false information) 

My point is, if you're getting pulled over it is almost always for a reason, whether it's for a traffic offense or another law that you have broke. Trick is to get ahead of them, don't use gang colors, don't walk around with guns, change clothes and vehicles often, especially if involved in crimes, etc... 

You aren't suppose to get off scott free in this server with criminal activity, this applies ten fold if you are a seasoned criminal with a large record. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Cyrus Raven

[Marcusandrew31]

3 hours ago, Cyrus Raven said:

Most times these questions are asked as a way to trick you into lying if cops already know the answer or gathering information. 

 

All of this is available info even for IRL purposes. Cops don't ask "do you know how fast you were going" or "Do you know why I pulled you over" to be nice, they do it to see if they can get some information they might not have from you. Similarly, they might ask questions they know the answer too like "Do you have a gun on you or in the car", knowing you have one, not only giving them further reason to search you, but also allowing them to add further charges if they feel like it. (Example: Providing false information) 

My point is, if you're getting pulled over it is almost always for a reason, whether it's for a traffic offense or another law that you have broke. Trick is to get ahead of them, don't use gang colors, don't walk around with guns, change clothes and vehicles often, especially if involved in crimes, etc... 

You aren't suppose to get off scott free in this server with criminal activity, this applies ten fold if you are a seasoned criminal with a large record. 

 

yes i agree on that, but im not talking about a cop doing his job, im talking about a small percent of cops that have the sense of power ICLY and OOCLY, i dont think when you get pulled over youre asked how fast you were going 10 times in a row after you answered the first time. some cops feel like they are above some others and almost harass others when pulled over. im not saying the pulling over is not  justified, im saying being a child about it once you are interacting with them is unacceptable in an environment where the main goal is to have fun as a whole. 

its almsot like they are trolling the crims because they know that the crims cant do anything about it. 

[Dara MacFadden]

19 hours ago, Mariaaaa said:

I wish cops started talking more like cops instead of boys trash talking like it's some competitive game.

I mean I wish gangsters role played as gangsters instead of (purely for example) mexicans saying easy clap get smoked noobs and using slang from the OOC country they’re from like a British Azteca calling someone a”slag or a puff” same goes.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Dara orkonson

[FrankieP]

Bruh can we stop making these threads now, they go nowhere and are getting kinda cringe.

Edited January 9, 2021 by FrankieP

[Pegasus_]

14 hours ago, Sodapopcurtis said:

 

This completely makes sense, i understand that a cop can do this. But what i saw some cops do was not stopping some aztecas after a chase, it was a random stop at a clothing store, and the cop was completely abusing his power as a cop, he was being very childish and promoting very poor rp. he asks the same question over and over to the azteca not letting them leave because if they leave they get in trouble if they stay after they haven't done anything they get in trouble, this cop asked 15 times do you have a gun in the car not letting them leave till he got the answer he wanted, annoying and harassing the other group. this is what im talking about, in what country do cops stop people and ask the same question over and over and over and what cop just stops randoms at a clothing store because they are dressed a certain way. if i sagged my pants in real life and wore red i dont think cops would start stopping me and asking if i had a gun in my car over and over. it just doesn't make the rp at that point fun. 

America. 

[freshprinceIE]

15 hours ago, Dray said:

tell me why before I even involved myself in this post, I knew at least ONE cop was going to say "its the crims that bring on things themselves" lol. its always the crims bro.

I'm a Crim main btw. Although I've played a little bit less recently (the battlebus got boring), and have played a bit more LEO.

If your reaction is just that crims are always perfect and are not willing to reconsider and think more about a scenario, then I don't know what to say.

I know you ICly, I knew your name before I even met you. You've a lot of time on this server as a Crim, and a high level one too. You should know better than just saying that most cops just want to ruin others RP.

[Victor Einhart]

I'll give you an example of something dumb that happened.  Yesterday there was a significant engagement with law enforcement where many officers were killed.  In the aftermath we saved a bunch of people from death and were transporting them to Bolingbroke prison in a bus.  Given that there was probably still a large number of gunmen looking to kill officers, the Commissioner decided to take out a vehicle with a mounted 50 caliber machine gun.

During the transport, this vehicle is the last vehicle in our convoy with the gun pointing towards the rear.  A guy drives up to us and receives commands to leave, and get back.  He decides to ram the rear of this vehicle with the 50 cal pointing directly at him and he shouts back "n**** i am going this way."  He receives another command to get back or he will be fired upon.  He then decides to overtake the 50 cal and try to challenge this convoy transporting half a dozen cop killers and tries to make a break for Bolingbroke.  Only after the 50 cal actively starts shooting warning shots at him does he pull over and stop.

What am I to make of this?  Is this guy just an idiot?  Is this the crim mindset?  I have no idea but you see people doing absolute donkey stuff like this all the time.

[Marcusandrew31]

3 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

I'll give you an example of something dumb that happened.  Yesterday there was a significant engagement with law enforcement where many officers were killed.  In the aftermath we saved a bunch of people from death and were transporting them to Bolingbroke prison in a bus.  Given that there was probably still a large number of gunmen looking to kill officers, the Commissioner decided to take out a vehicle with a mounted 50 caliber machine gun.

During the transport, this vehicle is the last vehicle in our convoy with the gun pointing towards the rear.  A guy drives up to us and receives commands to leave, and get back.  He decides to ram the rear of this vehicle with the 50 cal pointing directly at him and he shouts back "n**** i am going this way."  He receives another command to get back or he will be fired upon.  He then decides to overtake the 50 cal and try to challenge this convoy transporting half a dozen cop killers and tries to make a break for Bolingbroke.  Only after the 50 cal actively starts shooting warning shots at him does he pull over and stop.

What am I to make of this?  Is this guy just an idiot?  Is this the crim mindset?  I have no idea but you see people doing absolute donkey stuff like this all the time.

again... what police department has a 50 cal mounted machine gun.... but thats besides the point, yes that guy is an idiot and he wasnt looking in chat, that idiot was me lmao, i was driving 80 behind you and never rammed the rear of your vehicle, at least not for me, i should have stayed at least 2 cars back but i ended up stopping and letting you guys do what you need to do. i didnt know the whole situation and i was going there to visit someone when you guys gave me demands out of no where. but yes i was being stupid and i completely understand that. im not saying crims are the perfect players in the server were far from it. but cops arent perfect either. but yes youre right about this completely i was tired and being dumb my bad.