Make gang wars more interesting

[Kables]

I've been part of a few wars during my time roleplaying a criminal on ECRP. Only one of those wars, I felt was justified with its reasoning, the other times I felt the reasoning was weak and its obvious that war was declared only because the opposing faction has nothing better to do. Then the war goes as follows; you get robbed relentlessly, baited into shoot outs, harassed/hounded if you are alone or are in small numbers, and you can't roleplay with your friends unless you are in doors or are in a secluded area. The demands to end the war is usually either “give us money” or “strip your colors and disband.” Which, I personally feel a “rich” faction asking for money doesn't make much sense to me, and telling someone to disband something you've worked hard to build up isn't fair on an OOC level. It's basically robbing you of your current roleplay, and that's what we're all here to do.

 

Yes, I realize ECRP tries to simulate a real life experience as much as possible, but even then there are rules that attempt to make things fun and fair for everyone, and I believe war should come with rules as well.

 

I only have a few ideas so far. I'd love to see more on this matter, so please feel free to contribute!

 

First off, I believe that wars can be declared way too easily. I think it would be a good idea if a faction leader has put in some sort of forum request in order to declare war against another faction. They must provide a reason, along with proof if applicable. Once approved, the war can begin but can only last for thirty days, and if the thirty days arrives with no compromise made, the war must end.

 

Alternatively, a war could be more of a “last person standing” thing. If you die a war related death, you must strip your gangs current colors and wear civilian clothing until either the thirty days are up, OR there is one faction still standing wearing their colors. After the war is over, you'll be allowed to put your colors back on. There could even be war threads that faction members can post on, similar to faction threads, stating how their character has died or if they are still alive, or just to write out their story so far.

 

I think if there are rules applied to gang wars, it would bring further roleplay to the table, rather then just the constant barrage of robbing and shoot outs. People would be forced to be more strategic, and clever. Keep in mind, I realize my ideas aren't the very flushed out, and they have some flaws to them, but I'm not intending this to be a +1/-1 thread per se, (but you can still, by all means!) it's more that I'm curious if anybody else has any ideas as to how we can make gang war roleplay better, and more interesting. Please share your thoughts and your ideas! I'd love to hear them! 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Kables

[alexalex303]

So basically you'd like an OOC crutch for weaker factions to lean on when stronger factions fight them? 

The timing of the post makes it seem like you have a personal vested interest in stopping a certain war, and not about good RP with friends.

You said that the demands of money or disbanding are unreasonable. Let's say that you pay money, and then you can do good RP with friends, that's reasonable if good RP is all you want, no? Similarly, disbanding is a reasonable option if all you want is good RP with friends.

It seems that what you want is the ability to act though, not be able to back it up, and have OOC restrictions in being brought back to reality. NCZs are already a huge OOC crutch for this, and adding even more is going to kill criminal RP.

[thesilentwrath]

It should be like with a death counter, lets say gang 1 have 50 members and gang 2 has 25 members, after those deaths have been depleted the standing faction without reaching their member death toll cap wins, it should also allow for KOS while in at war but yeah this should allow to follow all NCZ rules or maybe have a rule that the KOS is only allowed outside the city out in the country side, within the city current rules still apply i think this would make gang wars more fun and not hands up get robbed system, but before a war begins and starts with this system it should be approved for by an admin on the forums by providing IC proof of what caused the war, this way wars will last a few days to a few weeks the most and maybe even add turfs back into the game in which when you lose the war you lose land, and the incentive to owning land can be you earn taxes on the land that goes into the gang Treasury to fund black market weapons.

Edited November 27, 2019 by thesilentwrath

[Kables]

22 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The timing of the post makes it seem like you have a personal vested interest in stopping a certain war, and not about good RP with friends.

Not at all! I have no intentions of "stopping" the war with this post. I actually haven't logged on a lot these past few months, and even now during my "return" I can't log on a lot due to my job becoming very busy during the holidays. So I'm often staying past my hours, and by the time I get home it's late, and I have to do other RL things to get ready for the next day. Like I've stated above, I've been part of more than one war, and it's the same every time. So the timing of this post is in fact due to the current war, but it's also to address what I've been thinking about for awhile, but haven't posted since, like I said, I've been pretty inactive lately. These are merely ideas to make gang wars more interesting, and if you have any ideas, share em! 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Kables

[Floatey]

Completely agree. This is an amazing post that I can get behind and I believe you and I have even spoke about in private. War makes it completely unlikely to even be able to roleplay outside of camera zones or interiors where people can't find you. It feels like war makes it a chase to win after which color finds who first. I also firmly believe that wars contribute to a lot of rules being broken even if the person realizes it or not. People get caught up into what they are doing and like to point fingers and play the blame game once one shot pops off. 

 

I personally hate how you can be in a massive gang war  shoot out end up at MD and then an hour later you end up in another one. It just seems extremely unrealistic to me and almost not needed. It's like a fight to the death until one gang drops out or meets demands. Also, wars tend to lean on robbing the opposite gang at any chance you get. Getting robbed more than once in a span of an hour is completely frustrating not to mention just feels like a big target at that point. You just went and bought all your items back just to be robbed again and have your car stolen to be chopped. 

 

Just a side note I would like anyone who is going to comment on how this has to do with our current war not to. That is a completely IC issue and doesn't need to be spoken on OOC when were just expressing how we could make war's more enjoyable for everyone!

[Floatey]

42 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The timing of the post makes it seem like you have a personal vested interest in stopping a certain war, and not about good RP with friends.

It disappoints me that you look at this post this way. If anyone knows Brandy or some of her group of friends she roleplays with all we do is strive is to make new RP for eclipse. We enjoy doing very basic roleplay on top of the criminal to get us outside of just shooting, robbing, and making drugs. Wars and being chased makes it nearly impossible for this to happen. 

[Bala]

I think there is perhaps some truth to the 'opposing faction has nothing better to do'. I think that also ends up pushing factions at least in part, to fight the cops more also because PD/SD are the only factions equipped enough and with enough numbers to provide something resembling competition.

Is it good for the criminal community that they two most powerful factions are close allies, with unbreakable ties? No, probably not, but it is at least supported by months of roleplay by these factions to those ends. You can't force them to fight each other if they don't want to, because it's like voiding all the roleplay that came before it.

There are some negative behaviours, that ideally you wouldn't want the official factions to do, but then if you leave your dog at home all day with no stimulation, it's going to bite holes in your couch and piss on your carpet. Criminals have been neglected for months from updates, updates that would give them something to strive for, something to work for.

So they look for any kind of fix of excitement, to keep logging in. There is only so much standing around, talking that a criminal faction can do. They need to be criminal and right now, frankly, the script doesn't support it well enough to justify three factions with 40-60 people.

The certain war that @alexalex303 referenced, has come about because partly because of boredom but partly because each official criminal faction is given the same tools but they are not equal factions, either IC with their clout or OOC with their numbers. There is a very clear pecking order.

The current situation is unfortunate, because I like The Wanted a lot, in my experiences overall they have been on average the best role-playing faction of the three official but they're also probably the most passive. This war is a little bit like two jock bullies kicking the crap out of the fat kid. The strong will always prey on the weak.

Where I think perhaps we are failing though is that we have an environment where the victim is resorting to sticking to safe areas in order to be logged in at all AND the attacking units are overwhelming in numbers and aggressive to the point where the victim can't breathe.

If it was me, I'd do two things.

• Firstly, I'd tell people to stop using No Crime Zones as ways to avoid IC punishments.
• Secondly, after significant events such as a big shootout between warring factions, i'd have a timeout period where the aggressor members of the event can't attack the victim members unless they are provoked by them. The timeout period, how significant an event was and whether it's provocation to attack them while on cooldown would be at admin discretion.

The reason why is just so people can role-play normally at least for a little bit amongst themselves. It is still a roleplay server and as much as wars might be IC, if you're being hunted like a dog 24/7 it's going to kill your motivation to play.

[MrUntouchable215]

When you brand yourself as a criminal faction, you bare the weight of your empire possibly crumbling at some point in time. Nothing is forever and on a server that's based around RP, if you talk that shit you have to walk it as well, otherwise you get exposed. As a criminal enterprise, your goal should not only be financially secure, but to also maintain a level of control, monopoly and build/maintain beneficial and long term relationships. For legal jobs you have plenty of factions and options. You have LSC, Bayview, MD, PD, SD, DOC, DCC, etc and when you choose to pick the criminal portion of ECRP, you are making exactly that, a choice. We've had territories in the past before and the result remained the same during times of war. It didn't just start and end at the capture point, but it did serve as a time where you had to fight your hardest.

 When you have time at your disposal, it's best to not waste it. Make money, form relationships, build build build and build and never stop building. If you roleplay as a small street gang and you're fine with that, that's an okay choice but if your ambitions are even higher, a small street gang can turn into a small militia in the future. You're not limited to your initial RP and with time, things change. You can mold with the times or build around it but again, those are all choices.

 

-1 Simply because the more restrictions you add onto something, the less freedom your RP has and when that happens, RP decreases and you're left with "This is how you do it, so only do it this way" I cannot get behind that.

I can also tell you, boredem isn't even 30% of the reasons Zetas went to war with wanted and the fact that people are even mentioning something like that says a lot, especially when the reasons were given to you in immense detail during an IC meet. To act like we have no reason is honestly insulting to say the least.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[KariOne]

9 minutes ago, GOAT said:

• Firstly, I'd tell people to stop using No Crime Zones as ways to avoid IC punishments.
• Secondly, after significant events such as a big shootout between warring factions, i'd have a timeout period where the aggressor members of the event can't attack the victim members unless they are provoked by them. The timeout period, how significant an event was and whether it's provocation to attack them while on cooldown would be at admin discretion.

I like this. Knowing that as soon as you die from a shootout you'll most likely go to parking lot, get your car, and instantly start getting pursued again isn't too fun a lot of the times. I like this timeout idea.

[MrUntouchable215]

Edit: (Unneeded post)

Edited November 27, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[Hootless]

13 minutes ago, GOAT said:

• Firstly, I'd tell people to stop using No Crime Zones as ways to avoid IC punishments.
• Secondly, after significant events such as a big shootout between warring factions, i'd have a timeout period where the aggressor members of the event can't attack the victim members unless they are provoked by them. The timeout period, how significant an event was and whether it's provocation to attack them while on cooldown would be at admin discretion.

The timer is by no means a bad idea and should maybe last around 1-3 hours, and I couldn't agree more with you when it comes to NCZ's and how they are used.  You also have to understand that if it is profitable and there is value in having an alliance between two large factions theirs no reason that there shouldn't be one. There is a value in PD working with SD is there not? Criminal RP is already extremely bottle-necked and definitely needs changes but i believe that these changes would only make it more stale. Forcing wars to have an end date doesn't make sense because gang rivalries don't end until one group is gone or if something is negotiated. If a war is declared on a faction and they simply don't want to fight it they could just be inactive for the duration of the war then pop back up like nothing ever happened. Criminal RP has been a dirty portion of RP for a long time, and what i mean by that is its a blood sport. Only the finest criminals make it through and thrive and thats how it should be, I feel that majority of the changes spoken about in this thread only add crutches and push it away from being a competitive area of RP. 

[Copes]

I'm gonna try to remain neutral and refrain from bias when responding to this post.

While I agree with the idea of spicing up gang wars, i'm not a fan of forcing an end to the rp. If a reason is valid it should be up to both sides to decide on when that conflict is to conclude or someone ceases to exist. With an idea such as that in place, gangs will never run the risk of being killed off. When putting in almost a year of my life into this project that risk was always resting over my shoulders.

I know where this post is coming from. Its less about winning/losing and more so about the roleplay that surrounds "vice" tier wars where one group is gang banged until they lose motivation to play. There is no rp outside of meetings and its a pvp server 24/7 for us now. Word, I feel ya. Do I have a solution? No.

1 hour ago, GOAT said:

• Firstly, I'd tell people to stop using No Crime Zones as ways to avoid IC punishments.
• Secondly, after significant events such as a big shootout between warring factions, i'd have a timeout period where the aggressor members of the event can't attack the victim members unless they are provoked by them. The timeout period, how significant an event was and whether it's provocation to attack them while on cooldown would be at admin discretion.

Agree with these ideas 100%. May be difficult to enforce, but a viable solution nonetheless. 

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

So basically you'd like an OOC crutch for weaker factions to lean on when stronger factions fight them? 

Although the post mentions a crutch I don't agree with, anyone who is familiar with our group knows we're passionate about roleplay and less about who's better at the video game. Direct your attention to the emphasis on placing rules in order to promote further roleplay. I have no problem fighting stronger factions that can kill us off (i.e Zetas and Triads) so long as we can take a breather here and there to do what we're here for. If there's no roleplay on a roleplay server? Bet. Ima head out.

[alexalex303]

3 minutes ago, Copes said:

Although the post mentions a crutch I don't agree with, anyone who is familiar with our group knows we're passionate about roleplay and less about who's better at the video game. Direct your attention to the emphasis on placing rules in order to promote further roleplay. I have no problem fighting stronger factions that can kill us off (i.e Zetas and Triads) so long as we can take a breather here and there to do what we're here for. If there's no roleplay on a roleplay server? Bet. Ima head out.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a gas station looking at nicely modded cars. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For one reason or another, you are at war with an alliance of two of the strongest gangs on the server. Not being able to get a breather to do what you want, is roleplay. It's their force projection. The fact that they are so strong that you do not get to do what you usually do, is part of roleplay.

[cheatonus]

19 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a gas station looking at nicely modded cars. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For one reason or another, you are at war with an alliance of two of the strongest gangs on the server. Not being able to get a breather to do what you want, is roleplay. It's their force projection. The fact that they are so strong that you do not get to do what you usually do, is part of roleplay.

In many roleplay games I've played in the past two larger factions wouldn't be able to ally together and declare war on a smaller faction. There were rules if engagement in place to prevent larger factions from ganging up and trouncing smaller factions. This prevents people's ooc time investments from going poof overnight. Also, any declaration of war between factions had to have a valid RP reason and admin approval. It would have been a terririal dispute, a business competition issue, or repeated and continued disregard of borders or something of this nature. General disrespect would have been laughed out the door as a reason, especially in the case of a larger group attacking a smaller group. Granted these were mostly text based games back in the dark ages of the internet, but we still followed largely the same ruleset in regards to things like meta and powergaming and NRP. Most of this can still apply to this more modern setup. The idea that RP is always fluid and changing is true, but it's also a game played by humans and the players playing the characters need respected OOCly for their time and efforts sometimes in lieu of IC things. If this wasn't the case we wouldn't need rules, admins, or any OOC intervention at all. Violence "just because" shouldn't happen between large factions. At the very least both sides need to OOCly agree to go to war and an admin should rubber stamp it. There should be some sort of diplomatic process and reasons beyond respect for mass killing and citywide warfare. Just my 2 cents. 

[Copes]

2 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a gas station looking at nicely modded cars. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For one reason or another, you are at war with an alliance of two of the strongest gangs on the server. Not being able to get a breather to do what you want, is roleplay. It's their force projection. The fact that they are so strong that you do not get to do what you usually do, is part of roleplay.

You're a bit naive to the point here. I expect to have realistic consequences thrown my way. Lets say for example that all we do is sit at our station and race. Fuck it up cuz', go for it. Bottom line is, we aren't asking for the ability to rp what we want, we're asking to have even a sliver of an opportunity to play the game rather than gta online with demands thrown in at every given moment. Again, I don't know the solution but I hope you get my point. I've said all I need to say. Take care.

1 minute ago, cheatonus said:

In many roleplay games I've played in the past two larger factions wouldn't be able to ally together and declare war on a smaller faction. There were rules if engagement in place to prevent larger factions from ganging up and trouncing smaller factions. This prevents people's ooc time investments from going poof overnight.

I've preached from the beginning of my journey here that roleplay isn't meant to be balanced. Thanks for the input but I disagree with the idea of limiting ones power and rp.

[taysha]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a gas station looking at nicely modded cars. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For one reason or another, you are at war with an alliance of two of the strongest gangs on the server. Not being able to get a breather to do what you want, is roleplay. It's their force projection. The fact that they are so strong that you do not get to do what you usually do, is part of roleplay.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a convenience store selling guns in public. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For example, the most revered gang would realistically not be able to sit in public .1 miles away from the most popular place in the city. For example, if the cops saw the Nine Trey Bloods sitting at a gas station on 5th avenue in New York, they would be swatted instantly. But, the fact that Los Zetas are able to sit in public with no repercussions at all, is shitty roleplay. 

[alexalex303]

Just now, taysha said:

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what roleplay is. Roleplay is not just sitting at a convenience store selling guns in public. Roleplay is having realistic consequences for actions. For example, the most revered gang would realistically not be able to sit in public .1 miles away from the most popular place in the city. For example, if the cops saw the Nine Trey Bloods sitting at a gas station on 5th avenue in New York, they would be swatted instantly. But, the fact that Los Zetas are able to sit in public with no repercussions at all, is shitty roleplay. 

Zetas do get swatted at the store, quite often. That's an IC repercussion for IC actions. This thread is about OOC rules for IC actions.

Unless your point is to make standing at a store against the rules, I don't see how it's relevant.

[taysha]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Zetas do get swatted at the store, quite often. That's an IC repercussion for IC actions. This thread is about OOC rules for IC actions.

Unless your point is to make standing at a store against the rules, I don't see how it's relevant.

Initially your point was supporting good roleplay so, I don't see how you can criticize The Wanted for sitting at a gas station away from the public, while supporting Los Zetas sitting at their convenience store at the most public part of the city. Seems a bit biased in my opinion. 

 

[MrUntouchable215]

(Ima stop posting cuz ima just end up roasting everyone) Delete this please, I'm too ghetto for forums.

I will say this though. For months people bitched and moaned about how all of the official and non official gangs hold hands and how we should fight and the moment we do, people complain again. I'm honestly kinda dumbfounded, not gonna lie.

Edited November 27, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[JayGamble]

45 minutes ago, taysha said:

Initially your point was supporting good roleplay so, I don't see how you can criticize The Wanted for sitting at a gas station away from the public, while supporting Los Zetas sitting at their convenience store at the most public part of the city. Seems a bit biased in my opinion. 

 

It also sounds bias when you reply to him, name dropping us. Your gas station is still in "public" and if "RP" is what you're about, you would recognize the fact that you're occupying a major gas station, on a major highway that would RPly be extremely populated. Instead there is a "rust-like" set up, used for baits, sick RP I guess. Everywhere should be considered "in public" unless it's in an isolated area, ie. nothing receiving major traffic in proximity.

[Ezrya]

-1 honestly. I don't think forcing members to leave the war because they died or putting a timer will help improve war RP. Yes getting chased constantly and being outnumbered can get boring eventually trust me im aware but as others have stated when you decided to follow criminal RP and join a gang this is the RP you signed up for. At some point especially as a criminal faction your going to make enemies along the way. In the end wanted is suffering the IC consequences for our actions. Plus not all wars have to end with disbanding or paying a certain amount of money. The whole war between zetas and wanted hasn't even been going on that long who know's how it will end.

3 hours ago, GOAT said:

• Firstly, I'd tell people to stop using No Crime Zones as ways to avoid IC punishments.
• Secondly, after significant events such as a big shootout between warring factions, i'd have a timeout period where the aggressor members of the event can't attack the victim members unless they are provoked by them. The timeout period, how significant an event was and whether it's provocation to attack them while on cooldown would be at admin discretion.

As for this timout idea I definetly like this, getting chased constantly or dying then going to parking lot just to get robbed again by the same faction can get boring. Plus I agree with the NCZ idea. Can be really annoying and just odd RP to be chasing a rival gang member just for them to hide in an NCZ to avoid IC consequences of the war. On a final note as someone in the wanted I have been having quite a lot of fun with this war to be honest and experienced nothing but good RP from all factions involved, having a timer or end date on this RP would just ruin the experience.

[Marca]

I can understand that money can lead to a peaceful resolution. However I do not agree with the disbanding part. It seems like if you want a group to disband, it's because of OOC reasons and not entirely IC. 

I do think more could be gained or lost in this. Currently it just seems like occasional team deathmatch between groups and short bragging rights after.

[Msato]

Not even going to waste my breath on this. 

There was no war for months, we have tried our hardest to avoid this exact situation. At the end of the day sometimes you have to show your strength. War is not because "we have nothing to do" it is purely based off of IC mistakes and roleplay. For the people who are claiming this war is founded on "disrespect alone" it shows how uninformed you actually are with your gangs higherups, there are many reasons for it all of which are IC and I'm sure if you asked your higherups they might be honest enough to fully explain the mistakes. Next time a gang war occurs IRL lets see if the declaring side gives their opposition 5+ warnings of their mistakes. This wouldn't happen, they'd be shot on the spot.

Maybe come back and make a post on the diplomatic of war, when you've been in a high enough position within a criminal faction to witness what goes on behind the scenes. Instead of returning after a long hiatus on the server and creating a post blatantly tailored towards helping your faction.

The hand holding attitude is something I've never understood, the people at the top worked hard for what they have and never had their hand held at all, why should the weaker side who is essentially trying to gain this same goal at the end of the day be helped by ooc structures? Keep wars IC. 

People complain when there is peace and the same people complain when there is war. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by CallumMontie
Decided to waste my breath.

[WindEZ]

Honestly people already say this you wanted to be part of a gang right ? You call them family and everything but the first hour of the war people run at Bayview to change their colors ( non rp ? ) thing that come back to normal thanks to your leader .I understand how war can be harsh i have friends in wanted, and i need to clap them but is just business sirs .

Instead of making a topic here you could find a way to recruit more soilders and fight the war or find another way to stop it.Put more time in RP then forum hate would be my end point . Nobody mentioned that we want your gang to be kicked from the server , but if you dont want that just fight .

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by DimaDan

[Bala]

8 hours ago, CallumMontie said:

Not even going to waste my breath on this. 

There was no war for months, we have tried our hardest to avoid this exact situation. At the end of the day sometimes you have to show your strength. War is not because "we have nothing to do" it is purely based off of IC mistakes and roleplay. For the people who are claiming this war is founded on "disrespect alone" it shows how uninformed you actually are with your gangs higherups, there are many reasons for it all of which are IC and I'm sure if you asked your higherups they might be honest enough to fully explain the mistakes. Next time a gang war occurs IRL lets see if the declaring side gives their opposition 5+ warnings of their mistakes. This wouldn't happen, they'd be shot on the spot.

Maybe come back and make a post on the diplomatic of war, when you've been in a high enough position within a criminal faction to witness what goes on behind the scenes. Instead of returning after a long hiatus on the server and creating a post blatantly tailored towards helping your faction.

The hand holding attitude is something I've never understood, the people at the top worked hard for what they have and never had their hand held at all, why should the weaker side who is essentially trying to gain this same goal at the end of the day be helped by ooc structures? Keep wars IC. 

People complain when there is peace and the same people complain when there is war. 

In my post, I think there is a bunch of reasons for what is going on right now. I talked with Gamble a few days ago about this war and he laid it out for me pretty much, what it's all about. But also, even from a cop point of view, I can see that you guys are starved for real competition, starved for script updates and starved for reasons that matter to do things.

I'm not a Triad or a Zeta or a Wanted. I'm pretty much as neutral as I possibly can be in this discussion. I do think a lot of the more questionable behaviour that comes from factions.. comes from a place of boredom. For PD and SD, this war makes confiscating stuff so much easier but we're not the UN, we're police departments.

I think these wars would be a lot healthier for all the participants and the role-play would be better if there was not only some regulation about them, but also, something to aim for besides in-character pride. 

The hand-holding attitude for me is pretty simple since I don't have a horse in this race that I want to win, I just want as many people logging into the server. From a server point of view, if you hitting a faction so hard that they don't want to log in then there is a problem. From a server point of view, if factions are in no crime zones to avoid getting hit, there is another problem. Obviously you guys have your points of view and I can understand that for you guys, you feel slighted and you just want to look after your own factions and preserve your own faction's credibility.

This war is in part to all factions getting equal opportunities, but all factions not being equal.  If we had a more dynamic, faction controlled system like I suggested below, then at the very least, there is an objective and it's for something. Because what is currently happening does seem from the outside, to just be a war of attrition under the weaker side decides enough is enough.

With my suggestion, it's very likely that zetas and triads would monopolise the criminal enterprises in the city as they kind of do right now but there would be actual stakes to it. 
The gun delivery system is server owned, the chop shops are server run, the drug labs are server run. You can only really roleplay you run them and tax people, but if they get destroyed, there's no consequence to that right now. It gives other factions the chance to be opportunists and for things to happen with a little more structure.

If the devs/admins took some time to invest time and resources into improving the criminal side of things, things would pop, for sure. I've been in PD for nearly nine months and if there was more to do as a criminal, i'd even consider picking a side but right now, it just seems a little aimless and random.