STOP THE BACKUP

[Ritchie Stones]

6 hours ago, Bala said:

If i might be so bold, I think that we're at a moment in the server where we have to be really careful about these sort of significant changes, because I don't think we can afford the luxury of pissing any section of our player base off and alienating them out of the server. 

I'm of the opinion that these sort of situations are somewhat born of a lack of communication between the core legal factions, the illegal factions and the legal/illegal faction management teams and perhaps worse, the absence of an actual strategy for an overall direction of the server. Something that we have seen eat away at the community for years now.

DOC shouldn't be leaving the prison to come fight criminals, in the current climate I can see why they are chipping in.

Cops grab the heaviest weapons they can, in the anticipation that, criminals will be rolling around armed to the teeth. Criminals roll around armed to the teeth in anticipation that cops will be rolling around armed to the teeth.

It's a constant fucking hamster wheel and all it does is spawn pissed off cops that are used to having the upper hand more often than not and pissed off criminals that get mowed down with very little chance of a favorable outcome.

• LFM, FM and the official legal/illegal faction leaders to discuss the best way forward on this subject and to work out a solution that EVERYONE lives by. There is fuck all point in having every random crim or cop spilling their guts but we don't control our factions, our faction leader does so it's on them to make sure their faction adheres to this. I include myself in this, PD doesn't belong to me, i'm just a member but if everyone has a say, no one does.
   
• Suspend any new imports of the biggest armor and the OP weapons immediately. People could use their stock piles as and when, but the route to new imports of these would be closed.
   
• Give a fixed window of opportunity for criminals to use or refund the armor/weapons in question, with a published end date, say like a month or two from now. That way everyone knows that one way or another this has an end date.
   
• At the end of the window of opportunity, wipe any remaining armors/weapons that are out of balance but also at that point, reduce the cop 200 APs to an amount that still gives them a slight edge but more in line with what is available for crims.
   
• Periodically, criminal factions could get controlled deliveries from The Cartel of some heavies and armors that are more closely moderated. Not dissimilar to what Ballin used to do with the plane crashes in the Alamo Sea. There is a finite amount of weapons and once they are used or confiscated, that is it until the next one.
  
  By the same token, in the instances where the roleplay calls for it (like the latest Shadow terrorist stunt) or the controlled deliveries by the Cartel, the use of the OP weapons by law enforcement factions would be allowed by Legal Services on a timed basis.

Everyone needs to accept that the balance should always be somewhat in favor of law enforcement because order always has to be eventually restored but that shouldn't mean a back hand for criminals either. Criminals should always have a chance to win but a likelihood to lose.

Also, controversial but if law enforcement agencies can team up, then I think in the circumstances where it's RP driven, illegal factions should be able to team up once again as well.

I think just putting a limit on how much guns a person can have, sounds good enough, a refund. Sounds good. I think a limit would be very feasable, but not weapons that decay fast like chrisy proposed 

[Ritchie Stones]

8 hours ago, Phantas said:

To be fair eclipse is pretty lax allowing assets to be horded and acquired over time. A lot of the big servers will remove houses after 2 weeks to a month of inactivity, alongside weapons and items decaying over a week to a month. They also have more indepth systems around business management. Unsure how much time devs and staff are willing to put into a reworking of major aspects of current ecrp but if they decide to expand this community into GTA6 with its eventual arrival they consider going towards the direction @Chrisy and @HobGoblin. If they dont plant to expand into GTA6 and continue to keep GTA5 as there main project hopefully they dont fear to do some big changeups to ECRP

Always measuring up to less sucsessful servers for their tactics yet wondering why server is running empty by the day. 
 

there is a reason eclipse stands out. Because it does things differently… stop aiming down

[Scar.]

1 hour ago, Ritchie Stones said:

I think just putting a limit on how much guns a person can have, sounds good enough, a refund. Sounds good. I think a limit would be very feasable, but not weapons that decay fast like chrisy proposed 

quite possibly the worst take i've read so far.

gun decay = more guns in rotation, meaning more deals, meaning more interaction, meaning more roleplay, meaning more fun.
Chrisy's point is most valid so far.

[Bala]

We don’t need to limit the amount of guns, let’s face it, this is Eclipse, we want gun fights to happen.

Just think I speak for everyone here when I say that we don’t want them to be unbalanced. 
 

Perhaps something to consider is how houses work, because right now they’re essentially unraidable stash spots and you need a warrant to raid one.

Perhaps if the stashes were a little more in world, then that would keep a more natural lid on the amount of guns people have stashed.

Throw in some safety deposit boxes for a small amount of safe storage and you’re laughing.

[Earl Mud]

I said this in another thread but a way to prevent pvp mentality would to be having some reward for crim rp. Idk what that would look like though but if we can cultivate a culture in the crim world for rp instead of rolling labs fights with cops would be a lot less and then they wouldn't have to escalate to calling so much backup. 

[Earl Mud]

11 hours ago, AnakinB said:

This is the main issue, most crims agree PD should have the advantage, the issue is they have EVERY advantage, They're allowed to call backup from other factions, they're allowed to pager, they're allowed every unit to chase, they're allowed to take helicopters out for every chase, they have no risk asset wise. as compared to the crim experience when its the exact opposite. It just isnt even remotely fair for the crim experience, it should not feel like a chore to interact with law enforcement but it does.

 

Good post bala a look of good points.

also remove combat mg mk2 from everyone shits disgustingly broken

To add to this recently I decided to evade. No weapons no violence. I was in a goddamn patriot which is slow as shit and they had a helicopter and 8 cars on me for simple evasion xD

[Phantas]

14 hours ago, HeadShot said:

Maybe illegal faction management can look into implementing an official alliance system where certain gangs who qualify can call on eachother for help, obviously it would have to be very specific but if every f4 gang could each have ONE other faction as an official alliance to call on I think that would be a good change in the right direction 

It be easier to balance around removing the tools pd was given over 5-6 years to combat gangs working together than to allow gangs working together again

[Clank]

1 hour ago, Lincoln Derose said:

wait no guys, PD are right this is extremely balanced and is very fair and fun for both sides! 175 AP is extremely fair.

https://streamable.com/8clhzu

Fairly certain your shots arent registering here, headshots negate a majority of armor. PD does not have 175 armor value.

[Spizor]

Can we stop providing irrelevant clips and statements that are not even true? LEO does not have 175 AP, and never has. If you can't contribute to this discussion positively then it'll be locked

[Hubie]

6 minutes ago, Spizor said:

Can we stop providing irrelevant clips and statements that are not even true? LEO does not have 175 AP, and never has. If you can't contribute to this discussion positively then it'll be locked

this is just not true, it was once 200 AP and now it is 175.

[Hubie]

27 minutes ago, Clank said:

Fairly certain your shots arent registering here, headshots negate a majority of armor. PD does not have 175 armor value.

even if they weren't, there is no way you should be tanking 6-8 headshots from ANY rifle from that range. 

[Hubie]

This will be my last reply to this thread. The server needs a serious change, otherwise it’s simply just going to die down due to the severe imbalance. I am not Anti-PD, nor do I dislike them or their rp, this is literally just my opinion. 

    First off, back-up-breach. Currently there are 120 members of the police department, 40 Government agents, 65 DOC guards, and 100 members of the sheriff's department.

    Now I understand that PD/SD should be helping each other and I 100% agree if there is a shootout both SD/PD should be there. If there is a chase that leads into one another's juror, then yes, they should assist with it. I see nothing wrong with SD/PD helping each other. Do I think that DOC and THE GOVERNMENT should be coming to shootouts? Absolutely not. Why in the fuck would DOC EVER leave the prison other than food runs. Why would GOV risk their life? It rply makes 0 sense whatsoever and if you think otherwise, I truthfully don’t know what to tell you. 

    Moving onto the pager mechanic within every Government faction. I think this should simply be removed. I do understand that IRL SWAT carry a pager. At the end of the day this is a game, a RP server to be exact. This is not about winning or losing, this is truthfully about the fairness within a game. Every criminal faction is limited to 30 people and cannot seek backup from another gang. Which again makes sense to me, as that could be very unfair to PD/SD, and any other criminal faction. I think this should apply to DOC/GOV. I fully agree and think SD/PD should help each other. 

    Now onto Weapons/Armour. My opinion on the current weapon “meta” for criminals, is truthfully, it’s shit. The Combat MG MK II is literally THE best gun on the server and is really broken. It takes around 4 bullets to kill someone without AP, which is absolutely ridiculous, and should be changed. I personally think all MK II’s should be removed. I also think the Armour should be changed a lot. I think cops should be limited to 50 on normal patrol but I think METRO and GND should get 100 AP with appropriate apparel. I think criminal factions should get limited to only ordering 50 AP and or 75 AP to balance things out.

I think this is the most important one. GND raiding labs / CIs. It is honestly insane how many snitches there are within the server from the criminal community. The only reason people are snitching is because GND is simply paying WAY too much for information. I also think GND are really just “investigating labs” due to them knowing it's open which ICly they wouldn’t know. Maybe I’m wrong but lab raids happen way too often, a lab getting raided within the day is just absurd. It has even gotten to the point of a singular lab being raided multiple times throughout a 12-hour time period. I may be wrong with there being a lot of CI's this is just what I thought due to the amount labs get raided.
 

Edited May 26, 2025 by Lincoln Derose

[Tomvd682]

Remove all Mk2s serverwide, lower the AP cap to 100 serverwide, and make mk2 guns deteriorate over a month or two instead of the week or two as suggested, to keep everyone more satisfied and circumvent 2 weeks of an absolute shitfest rampage. After that period, LFM will be able to control all the supply and stock and tweak things as they deem necessary.

I don't think this is a complete "fix" to anything, but it's definitely a first step in the desired direction.

[Bala]

For the record, at least in my mind, the whole point of usadding a bunch of labs was so that they could be raided and people would just go use a different one. You ain't supposed to be constantly at the same one.

I just think maybe the rotation might be scuffed or others have different ideas.

[Earl Mud]

1 minute ago, Bala said:

For the record, at least in my mind, the whole point of usadding a bunch of labs was so that they could be raided and people would just go use a different one. You ain't supposed to be constantly at the same one.

I just think maybe the rotation might be scuffed or others have different ideas.

Rotation is def scuffed. Its the same 8 labs over and over. 

[Rizza]

26 minutes ago, Bala said:

For the record, at least in my mind, the whole point of usadding a bunch of labs was so that they could be raided and people would just go use a different one. You ain't supposed to be constantly at the same one.

I just think maybe the rotation might be scuffed or others have different ideas.

Half of the labs should never open due to locations like the GOV labs, airplane scrap and a few others. Afghan due to mega desync issues which staff know of but still opens. I'm not asking for all good labs to be in rotation, they should just never open a few of em as locations are not realistic or have a server issue with em.

[Alexx.]

6 hours ago, Lincoln Derose said:

wait no guys, PD are right this is extremely balanced and is very fair and fun for both sides! 175 AP is extremely fair.

https://streamable.com/8clhzu

You and @Rage. were desync'd when you hopped out the car, i was shooting at Nick and he was Tposing and shit so probably why it took a min to drop George as your hits didnt register. We dont have 175AP, we never did.

[Chilo]

7 hours ago, Lincoln Derose said:

First off, back-up-breach. Currently there are 120 members of the police department, 40 Government agents, 65 DOC guards, and 100 members of the sheriff's department.

    Now I understand that PD/SD should be helping each other and I 100% agree if there is a shootout both SD/PD should be there. If there is a chase that leads into one another's juror, then yes, they should assist with it. I see nothing wrong with SD/PD helping each other. Do I think that DOC and THE GOVERNMENT should be coming to shootouts? Absolutely not. Why in the fuck would DOC EVER leave the prison other than food runs. Why would GOV risk their life? It rply makes 0 sense whatsoever and if you think otherwise, I truthfully don’t know what to tell you. 

    Moving onto the pager mechanic within every Government faction. I think this should simply be removed. I do understand that IRL SWAT carry a pager. At the end of the day this is a game, a RP server to be exact. This is not about winning or losing, this is truthfully about the fairness within a game. Every criminal faction is limited to 30 people and cannot seek backup from another gang. Which again makes sense to me, as that could be very unfair to PD/SD, and any other criminal faction. I think this should apply to DOC/GOV. I fully agree and think SD/PD should help each other. 

Those numbers are their total members, at no one time will you ever see more than 30 players on duty from any of those factions. Also majority of the time when DOC is called, it’s for CERT which is not the entire department and this usually happens when PD/SD are low on units, literally them only 4 or 5 people on shift. Even when CERT is called, there is probably only a few people on and when they do respond, it’s for scene security. There was one time I believe that DOC responded to a larger scene outside of what I described above, and the result was almost everyone who responded getting killed. So even when DOC sends CERT to assist PD and SD, there isn’t really that big of an advantage for LEO as most of the time, DOC stays back for scene security and there is always a few people  who are asked to remain at the prison

I hope this adds some context.

[Danny_V]

1 hour ago, Chilo said:

Those numbers are their total members, at no one time will you ever see more than 30 players on duty from any of those factions.

You say that ... but: LEO factions regularly OOC pager people into the server if they want an RP scenario.
Dont have the people online to confront a large armed group or conduct a raid? Maybe don't do that RP... build a case and wait for a time where you have the numbers.

Just as crims aren't allowed to call people in, then LEO's shouldn't either.
To me that's a blatant double standard where a portion of the community would get punished if they do it, when the LEO players do it regularly, and it's deemed fine.

 

[DaddyShrood]

32 minutes ago, Danny_V said:

You say that ... but: LEO factions regularly OOC pager people into the server if they want an RP scenario.
Dont have the people online to confront a large armed group or conduct a raid? Maybe don't do that RP... build a case and wait for a time where you have the numbers.

 

I can't speak for any other faction but at DOC if you press a pager, I'd say circa 20% of the time people actually turn up. Pagers aren't this magical thing which spawns half of the faction in suddenly. Yes they have their uses but I feel that they're being massively way overstated.

[Normal]

On 5/21/2025 at 1:15 PM, RAttlesnake7473 said:

Now with shadows being T4? I believe and having Combat mg mk2 i just don’t see why this is a thing.

Do you know there is ic reasoning behind shadows getting that? And nobody is mad at us having it when they buy them, only when they die and now it gets used against them....

[Bala]

15 hours ago, Danny_V said:

You say that ... but: LEO factions regularly OOC pager people into the server if they want an RP scenario.
Dont have the people online to confront a large armed group or conduct a raid? Maybe don't do that RP... build a case and wait for a time where you have the numbers.

Just as crims aren't allowed to call people in, then LEO's shouldn't either.
To me that's a blatant double standard where a portion of the community would get punished if they do it, when the LEO players do it regularly, and it's deemed fine.

 

There are some days where people are paged 2-3 times and there are days when no one is paged at all, so i'm not sure what you mean by regularly.

It's more than it's on a case by case basis AND usually in relation and in reaction to something that said large armed group has done or on the off chance we get to do a raid, which is again not really that often.

The criteria for using the pager is large scale situations, warrants and training sessions. Not for every run of the mill situation.

It's only a double standard if you assume that we're intended to be treated the same, we're not. Our roles within the server are completely different and while we all share the server rules, our faction rules and specifically on those around the pagers are well regulated to the satisfaction of the server staff.

So, yeah, it is fine.

[alexalex303]

I think people are providing half-solutions to their problems. A number of players have suggested that law enforcement no longer use pagers. Let's say that happens and pagers are banned today. What happens when a certain gang or another decides to shoot cops when there's only 6 cops connected to the server? 

National guard? Staff team on admin duty? FAAA with attack helicopters? What should be the thing that stops you from wiping all cops at that time? Unless you just want it to be nothing?

[Danny_V]

3 hours ago, Bala said:

There are some days where people are paged 2-3 times and there are days when no one is paged at all, so i'm not sure what you mean by regularly.

It's more than it's on a case by case basis AND usually in relation and in reaction to something that said large armed group has done or on the off chance we get to do a raid, which is again not really that often.

The criteria for using the pager is large scale situations, warrants and training sessions. Not for every run of the mill situation.

It's only a double standard if you assume that we're intended to be treated the same, we're not. Our roles within the server are completely different and while we all share the server rules, our faction rules and specifically on those around the pagers are well regulated to the satisfaction of the server staff.

So, yeah, it is fine.

you DO realise this whole discussion is opened up to evaluate the current state of the rules and consequenses it has on gameplay right? All rules are made up.. Everything (we do here) is made up.

I'm simply stating the fact that LEO groups can legally backupbreach, if crims do it, it goes to the forums.
I'm simply stating the fact tht LEO groups can OOCly call people into the city if they want to do cerain Roleplay scenarios, if crims do it, it goes to the forums.

Those are two pretty substantial exemptions to server rules. I'm happy to hear that FM is well regulating the use of pagers, as I can imagine that could easily go out of hand.

And by substantial I mean that IF crim factions were to be allowed to utilize them the way that LEO's can, it would be a HUGE gamechanger. And I think everyone would agree with me there.  I'm not advocating for that change, I don't want that change. I think they should remain a rulebreak, I'm simply saying that I think LEO factions should not be exempt of those rules.

Now, back to my opinion on this matter:
I'm truly baffled by the "cops are supposed to win" argument that keeps being floated around. Everyone seems to say they want fights and chases. But why is it then, that whenever there's an ongoing chase, there's 10+ cruisers and air1 that join in. Why is it that in ongoing gunfight other LEO factions get called for backup. I understand that on an individual level it makes IC sense to join in, as it's your character's job. I'm talking about the OOC consequenses: Its getting to a point where the LEO backup just shuts down potential outcomes of scenarios. Cops truly are supposed to win, your input as a criminal player is merely limited to deciding when they win. I've heard "it's not worth it" numerous times, when it comes to scenarios involving cops. and if the outcome of roleplay scenarios is predestined with an L for one party. guess what? that party will stop engaging with said scenarios. And therefore it's unhealthy for the community overall. "Cops are supposed to win" is an unhealthy mindset.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree we don't want to reach a point where the extent of roleplay for criminal players is choosing when and with what charges they go to DOC.

Secondly i'm observing that it's kind of becoming a "SHROEDINGERS argument" where the backup doesn't matter because if backup show up they all die, and therefore it's not a problem. But simultaneously they should also have access to that backup because "LEO's are supposed to win those scenarios."

Its kind of funny how often these types of forum threads pop up now. And I think there's an underlying conversation to be had.
Instead of discussing the symptoms. I would love it if FM/LFM would send out a questionaire and mediate this conversation. In my opinion, these threads have become too frequent to ignore, or brush aside as if it's "Just another cop vs. crim thread"  

[Bala]

6 hours ago, Danny_V said:

you DO realise this whole discussion is opened up to evaluate the current state of the rules and consequenses it has on gameplay right? All rules are made up.. Everything (we do here) is made up.

You can state what you like, the people that make the decisions on these things aren't reading the thread.