STOP THE BACKUP

[Diabolical]

their needs to be a fair policy to both legal and criminals, if the rule to "call backup unless planned " is enforced. why should crims who have to pay for weapons graft their gang tier pay for armour and any arrest bills have to fight the entire 3 major legal factions to win a  scene,  why is it very heavily "cops should win" mindset over " skill and planning to win and define the city. 

this makes it so unfun for crims  because in the worst case scenario a gang is fighting another gang then the cops then sheriffs then doc then gov. like how is that going to be fun for any crims or rewarding. just seems to me its driving the criminals into frustration. 

[Rosalia Hall]

im not going to make this an leo vs crim thing because it goes no where. 

all of DOC/GOV shouldn’t be back up for lab raids and gang fights. for example; ALL of DOC tonight left the prison unsupervised to come to a PD/SD vs gang fight. PD/SD lost the fight and DOC came and continued the fight to the point DOC was blsing me and putting me in trunk mid active gunfire and a corrections officer was my arresting officer. I genuinely don’t care that I lost a gun or ended in DOC but if gangs cant call backup, why can 4 legal factions come and fight just so cops receive a W? it isn’t realistic and i truly do understand it isn’t meant to be easy to win vs LEOs but this is just overkill atp.

[Tylerwalk]

Huge +1 and I have a feeling the entire crim based will agree. 4 factions assisting each other on top of a ooc pager is just so unfair.

[CharlesXiao]

+1

This happens way too often, DOC shouldn't leave the jail unless a transport is needed. I don't know what changed in the last 2 1/2 years warranting them to leave DOC to assist in a shootout but its mental. If SD/PD can't win a fight with well over 30 members each I think their IC training should be revised considering they already have unlimited assets from FL.

[Diabolical]

additional note: 

i have tried several times and i know others have, to do a breakout rp scene to be rejected due to not on duty DOC guards or not enough, so when DOC attend to calls for a shoot out, its also taking away from the rp scenes that could of happened within DOC also, not considering DOC is limited on what to do for rp based on my previous suggestion of better DOC for more rp. it just all piles together

 

[AnakinB]

if DOC leave for shootouts it should be allowed for criminals climbing out since no guards are there watchin 

[Eliza]

ive always personally thought it's a bit silly to have prison guards show up to law enforcement scenes for extra numbers in shootouts. However in my experience, it doesn't happen too often, and I would prefer it over the national guard showing up instead.

 

Just as a general reminder while it's early, if we can't act civil in this thread, it will be archived.

[DaddyShrood]

The way to look at it is that you should never be able to wipe the government. In reality, the government would throw every man dog and pigeon at whomever is attacking them until they were subdued. Also, as a long time member of DOC you'd be surprised how little we actually get called out to the city, and often by the time we even turn up everyone's dead and all the crims have ran off. 

[alexalex303]

6 hours ago, RAttlesnake7473 said:

This happens way too often, DOC shouldn't leave the jail unless a transport is needed. I don't know what changed in the last 2 1/2 years warranting them to leave DOC to assist in a shootout but its mental. If SD/PD can't win a fight with well over 30 members each I think their IC training should be revised considering they already have unlimited assets from FL.

I'll tell you what changed, you got what you asked for; gangs now have 200 AP readily available to them but cops only have 150 AP. Gang now have MG MK IIs and cops do not. Gangs are better armed and armored than cops, and guess what they do with that? they fight cops. Just like you said you wouldn't when you asked for cop loadout nerfs.

If you don't want DOC to come, it'll be National Guard and if it's not National Guard, it'll be Air Force, whatever, the point is that you should not be able to routinely wipe all law enforcement on the server, as has been happening the past week or so.

DOC doesn't just sit in their Kamachos ready to be called by PD/SD. They have to deploy, get in CERT loadouts and stuff. If you're still at the place where you wiped most of PD/SD 15 minutes later when DOC arrives. What are you doing? What are your goals? To just keep shooting until there's no one left to shoot? 

Edited May 21, 2025 by alexalex303

[Scar.]

+1

Never liked the backup breach rule, criminal alliances are highkey pointless, less rules more RP <3.

In my opinion that rule should just be removed !

[Rosalia Hall]

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I'll tell you what changed, you got what you asked for; gangs now have 200 AP readily available to them but cops only have 150 AP. Gang now have MG MK IIs and cops do not. Gangs are better armed and armored than cops, and guess what they do with that? they fight cops. Just like you said you wouldn't when you asked for cop loadout nerfs.

If you don't want DOC to come, it'll be National Guard and if it's not National Guard, it'll be Air Force, whatever, the point is that you should not be able to routinely wipe all law enforcement on the server, as has been happening the past week or so.

DOC doesn't just sit in their Kamachos ready to be called by PD/SD. They have to deploy, get in CERT loadouts and stuff. If you're still at the place where you wiped most of PD/SD 15 minutes later when DOC arrives. What are you doing? What are your goals? To just keep shooting until there's no one left to shoot? 

1) 200 AP isnt readily available to crims. Yes, it is out there but it isn’t something easily accessed or cheap. Cops have 150 AP but can change it out multiple times during a fight using FL. 

2) We may have better guns but you guys have 4 factions and ooc pagers to use to continue the fight. Most gangs have 10-12 people on at a time, even if our guns are better, the overwhelming numbers of LEOs we fight outweights that. 

3) The point of this is that we understand we are not meant to win easily but we should not be fighting waves of 30-40+ just to try and get away from a scene. I have rarely fought DOC but I have witnessed them showing up to raid labs (prior to a gunfight happening), helping in house raids, etc. In my specific situation last night, half of them weren’t in CERT gear. I didn’t wait around for more to show up - I shot the ones in the path to get to my vehicle and was met by 2 tarvs of DOC who sprayed me down. We did not have the intention to fight cops but unfortunately, they instantly shoot and involve themselves which is fine because its their job but you cannot expect us to not try to fight back. We lose a shit ton of money, cops lose nothing. We have to not only fight LEOs for our belongings but multiple other gangs so yes, we are all frustrated that the W mentality of “cops shouldnt lose” is the constant mindset. DOC and GOV shouldn’t be involved every single time cops start losing. 

Edited May 21, 2025 by Rosalia Hall

[alexalex303]

Just now, Rosalia Hall said:

1) 200 AP isnt readily available to crims. Yes, it is out there but it isn’t something easily accessed or cheap. Cops have 150 AP but can change it out multiple times during a fight using FL. 

2) We may have better guns but you guys have 4 factions and ooc pagers to use to continue the fight. Most gangs have 10-12 people on at a time, even if our guns are better, the overwhelming numbers of LEOs we fight outweights that. 

3) The point of this is that we understand we are not meant to win easily but we should not be fighting waves of 30-40+ just to try and get away from a scene. I have rarely fought DOC but I have witnessed them showing up to raid labs (prior to a gunfight happening), helping in house raids, etc. In my specific situation last night, half of them weren’t in CERT gear. I didn’t wait around for more to show up - I shot the ones in the path to get to my vehicle and was met by 2 tarvs of DOC who sprayed me down. We did not have the intention to fight cops but unfortunately, they instantly shoot and involve themselves which is fine because its their job but you cannot expect us to not try to fight back. We lose a shit ton of money, cops lose nothing. We have to not only fight LEOs for our belongings but multiple other gangs so yes, we are all frustrated that the W mentality of “cops shouldnt lose” is the constant mindset.

1. Cops can change it by becoming frozen scrolling through a long menu, taking a long time in a shootout while a crim can just drag a fresh body armor in the slot, instantly; the only downside is that they pay for it.

2/3. You misunderstood my post. It's not that you're not meant to win easily, you're not meant to win full stop. Winning for the criminals shooting the cops should be getting away, not successfully wiping all law enforcement on the server. If you start wiping DOC, there will be more factions called, because you simply shouldn't have that as your goal, and I don't understand how this is not already clear.

[Rosalia Hall]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

1. Cops can change it by becoming frozen scrolling through a long menu, taking a long time in a shootout while a crim can just drag a fresh body armor in the slot, instantly; the only downside is that they pay for it.

2/3. You misunderstood my post. It's not that you're not meant to win easily, you're not meant to win full stop. Winning for the criminals shooting the cops should be getting away, not successfully wiping all law enforcement on the server. If you start wiping DOC, there will be more factions called, because you simply shouldn't have that as your goal, and I don't understand how this is not already clear.

I think you’re misunderstanding as well. 

We aren’t asking or expecting to win against cops. As stated, fighting cops is never the intention (atleast I speak for myself) - I was fighting another gang, cops showed up, DOC got called due to “low unit numbers”. Not because we were actively sitting there trying to wipe cops, we were trying to get away as in my experience, no criminal wants to fight cops and avoids it like the plague because it is unwinnable. 

The issue is the recent spike of using DOC/GOV for numbers in raids and gunfights. I am not speaking on the clap crews who go and purposely fight cops.

 

[Diabolical]

looking over a lot of this, its a debate between "this is how real life is" and "its a video game make it fair", although i think police should have good odds for immersion but this is a video game and rp to have fun, we cannot say "oh irl cops would win so they have to in rp" that's just forcing rp, if we are trying  follow the "irl the cops would win" then why are cops allowed unlimited ammo unlimited stacks of armour in their car, cops shooting cars to despawn them? when blocking a funnel, either the staff decide hey "this is a game lets make it a fair battle" or "this is intense rp" and enforce some changes, 

to stick onto the topic, despite what equipment crims get, they have to pay for it our of their own hours and playtime not free to the gangs after hitting a certain rank, even once the gang has reached a tier that gives them new guns, its "pay for it, dodge gangs, dodge cops" due to the nature of how much we have to invest into just getting a gun I dont feel i should be fighting 4-5 waves of factions. 

on top of this with often labs being close to main roads or cops speed trapping in ear shot range of labs the crims have a rough experience. this is GTArp we all came here to roleplay and have fun and in order to achieve fun their needs to be a balance to factions in order to keep it fair. 

this isnt a hard core rp server, this isnt a cop roleplay group, this is Eclipse Roleplay where we come to have fun with friends, cops are not going to be mad for losing free guns. 

[RJThompson]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I'll tell you what changed, you got what you asked for; gangs now have 200 AP readily available to them but cops only have 150 AP. Gang now have MG MK IIs and cops do not. Gangs are better armed and armored than cops, and guess what they do with that? they fight cops. Just like you said you wouldn't when you asked for cop loadout nerfs.

but again Mr Steel, lets say its peak times you still get 40 PD, 40 SD, Insurgents, Gunships, Heavy Sniper MKIIs. us getting 200aps its just a step in the right direction. and i understand we can have as many with mg mk2s as possible but lets be completely real. cops are aloud to have 1 or 2 MG MK2s per faction(if I'm not mistaken) so lets say they have 4 in the fight. crims wont have more then 2-4 people with a MG also due to it being hard to get their hands on also import its 37.5K plus attachments and the ammo PD would get for free it would be 50k + if your not in a gang that doesn't import them, add 20-40% tax which is 60-70k plus the 200ap you think is so easy to get(which is really isn't) would be 30k + tax lets say 40-45k. that kit would be minimum 80k or up to 115k. so it wont be often you'll see a 200ap and mg mk2. 

 

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

DOC doesn't just sit in their Kamachos ready to be called by PD/SD. They have to deploy, get in CERT loadouts and stuff. If you're still at the place where you wiped most of PD/SD 15 minutes later when DOC arrives. What are you doing? What are your goals? To just keep shooting until there's no one left to shoot? 

No, sometimes we have injured people who RPly you don't want to die. also their guns etc and if for example rooks have a member caught after such fight. we will get suppressed because there's always one detective that runs away to remember to situation so they can make a case file. so the last thing someone needs is to have their gang member there stuck. as well as the 3 hours in DOC + just 1 charge of murder of a GOV is 20k fines. if someone gets charged stacked + lose their gun and armour as previously explained. they will lose 110k for their kit plus 30-50k in fines, 3 hours of their time played wasted. but then again i guess that the risk we take if we wanna have gun/give fun to cops because as we all know. cops love it JUST as much as crims xD

this wasn't meant to reply and be sarcastic or rude, just to shed some light as i don't think you've been in the crim world lately man  

[MrSilky]

3 hours ago, RJThompson said:

us getting 200aps its just a step in the right direction

Hell no.

If anything, military grade weapons should be completely removed from all sides (other than those super rare 1 per year situations) and armour should be capped at 100 for PD and 50 for crim (100 for special imports).

Also just to clear a common misconception - PD and SD’s armour is mostly 50/75AP. The only people with access to 150AP is ~10-20% of the roster, and even then they are only utilised for specific RP reason, not general patrol. 

I understand the frustrations of involving other factions in these situations, and I will look into this and address this as it shouldn’t be frequently happening, but ask yourself the root cause of the issue.

This is a roleplay server, let’s focus on that.

[EL Doggo]

4 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

Hell no.

If anything, military grade weapons should be completely removed from all sides (other than those super rare 1 per year situations) and armour should be capped at 100 for PD and 50 for crim (100 for special imports).

 

this right here, this right here ladies and lads, this fucking right here

+1 to that statement 

[RJThompson]

30 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

If anything, military grade weapons should be completely removed from all sides (other than those super rare 1 per year situations) and armour should be capped at 100 for PD and 50 for crim (100 for special imports).

time to remove all mk2s from both sides including snipers unless certain situations, and pd with 100 ap and crims with 50 ap seems perfect. and go back to aks and pumps and special imports of other weapons. +100000000 to this!!

 

32 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

I understand the frustrations of involving other factions in these situations, and I will look into this and address this as it shouldn’t be frequently happening, but ask yourself the root cause of the issue.

see for once, someone actually takes this discussions seriously and seems like they actually wanna make it more fun and fair! but the root is wanting fun and fair rp. not what seems to be crims are here for PDs enjoyment which sometimes. seems to be the case! definitely not all the time i must admit but sometimes

[CharlesXiao]

59 minutes ago, RJThompson said:

time to remove all mk2s from both sides including snipers unless certain situations, and pd with 100 ap and crims with 50 ap seems perfect. and go back to aks and pumps and special imports of other weapons. +100000000 to this!!

I f/w this heavy. Love the combat mg mk2 to death and use it frequently but i just don’t think it’s the healthiest thing for the server with it being a 3-4 shot w/o AP. I think Carbine and AK MK2s are fine but exclusively for factions that are T7+ such as Rooks and Lost. Now with shadows being T4? I believe and having Combat mg mk2 i just don’t see why this is a thing. What’s the point of our tier system if a T4 faction gets quiet literally the most OP weapon (excluding sniper n shit)

 

Removing the MK2s but keeping the most common ones such as carbine and ak for those factions that have grinded to be in a high place would be sweet

[Rizza]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

Hell no.

If anything, military grade weapons should be completely removed from all sides (other than those super rare 1 per year situations) and armour should be capped at 100 for PD and 50 for crim (100 for special imports).

Also just to clear a common misconception - PD and SD’s armour is mostly 50/75AP. The only people with access to 150AP is ~10-20% of the roster, and even then they are only utilised for specific RP reason, not general patrol. 

I understand the frustrations of involving other factions in these situations, and I will look into this and address this as it shouldn’t be frequently happening, but ask yourself the root cause of the issue.

This is a roleplay server, let’s focus on that.

icl a whole new post needs to be made about "military weapons" which realistically are the mk2s. Just need to be removed. Boring for little crims fighting for their life's against cops and the average crim when they only have a .50 IF that. The average crim has mk2 AP now. Go back to mk1s and maybe pump mk2 as it was released earlier than other mk2s. 

As for this top, it sucks having to fight 3 legal factions with a gang that may only have 8-12 people logged on. Sometimes its even 4 factions. People are stating it very rarely happens and I'm sorry that's just bullshit. In what world would I have GOV and DOC pushing me in a apartment raid? If people really want to see how many times it happens, a lot of us crims have a lot of POVs of DOC/GOV pulling up whilst we are still trapped in a lab or a roof or whatever it may be. Stick to your RP jobs as DOC guards or GOV workers. If the governor gets kidnapped yeh fair enough, but gang on gang conflict or even getting raided at a lab, DOC and GOV should not attend. If its not going to work and they keep coming, crims should be allowed to call a ally gang.

Its not about winning and losing, its about being fair as its a game.

[Rizza]

10 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I'll tell you what changed, you got what you asked for; gangs now have 200 AP readily available to them but cops only have 150 AP.

150AP not 200AP.

[Ritchie Stones]

…. Maybe crims arent supposed to be having a shootout 6times a day. Maybe this server was ment for RP and doing things under the radar like deals and cooking, selling drugs.

[AnakinB]

12 minutes ago, Ritchie Stones said:

Maybe this server was ment for RP and doing things under the radar like deals and cooking, selling drugs.

ive fought PD at labs more than I have fought crims at labs since ive came back.

[Rage.]

15 minutes ago, Ritchie Stones said:

…. Maybe crims arent supposed to be having a shootout 6times a day. Maybe this server was ment for RP and doing things under the radar like deals and cooking, selling drugs.

literally everything you listed has a chance to stem off into a gunfight… which is about 90% of gunfight reasons anyways (cooking drugs)

Edited May 22, 2025 by Rage.

[Ritchie Stones]

1 minute ago, Rage. said:

literally everything you listed has a chance to stem off into a gunfight… which is about 90% of gunfight reasons anyways (cooking drugs)

Aight !! Lets go back to private labs ! No more troubles