Chop Shop Changes

[Jaackla]

Currently it takes 8 mins to chop a car
that means in 1 hour IRL you can chop 7.5 cars
The better the car the more money but more or less your getting 3k a go

So 3k a car x 7.5 cars = 22.5k in 1 hour

Now you wont ever make money like that because you would have to have 1 car after another there when in reality you chop the car then you have f all and run around until you find somewhere and then find a car to steal and do the same thing. So you aint making anywhere near that money

Also gangs have started controlling chop shops and taxing everyone now to come in and chop a car
Police are always around chop shops so its hard to chop a car unless a big gang is there but then you lose money that way too

The timer on a chop shop needs to come down a lot and the money for cars needs to rise
because it really is pointless chop shopping because its only the gangs that make the money from the tax per car that comes in
Doing a bus driver job gives you more money in a 1 hour time period and you dont risk going to jail
Chop shopping needs to become viable again because atm it really isnt worth it

[Swagmiku]

+1 There needs to be more reward as  opposed to the risk from doing this in my honest opinion. A lot of other things need tweaking but this would be a good start. 

One of the main complaints against this particular argument/suggestion you're proposing is that it would be too easy/unrealistic for a car to be chopped in anything less than 8 minutes. Some would call for more time to be added, but frankly, adding more time would just make it not worthwhile. Besides, taking apart/chopping a whole car in 8 minutes is already short and kinda unrealistic.

 

My suggestion would be to remove the timer entirely, why? Because it just makes sense. If an aspiring criminal went through all of the potential trouble of stealing a car (Which can play out in a variety of different scenarios and not always succeed mind you.) It should at least make sense that the criminal in question drops off said stolen car to said chopping area, collect their cash, then walk away. Why sit there and look after the car for so long when it shouldn't be your problem?

 

What are the effects of everything I just mentioned above? I'll try and lay them out on the table below as best as I can in my current tired state:

 

- Car thefts would definitely happen a lot more often.

- Owners of cars would DEFINITELY go to greater length to realistically park their cars securely and safely. (How many times have you passed a random car just sitting on the road? Seriously, who does that in the real world?)

- The potential for car theft role play on both the thieves and owners side increase substantially. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it should be expected in this kind of roleplay environment.

- Expensive cars would definitely be targeted more than their less expensive counterparts, in my opinion, if you have an expensive car (That isn't an import.) chances are you've been playing on the server for a while, and have either some money saved, or a ton of money saved, or somewhere in between. I feel for these people in particular because I feel like expensive car owners will have the loudest voices in this thread. I am not entirely aware of the process, but as a bit of relief I would suggest stolen cars be comped entirely for free, or for a small price at Mors, with maybe an hour or thirty minute timer starting when the car is chopped.

 

As for the activity being more lucrative? To be honest, I've never chopped a car, but using your calculation of 3k a car x 7.5 cars = 22.5k in 1 hour  ....22.5k in one hour is probably the most you can get, but its also an unattainable figure given the amount of in between time that goes into stealing and chopping a car, so if we're being realistic here, you could probably get away with chopping 1 or 2, maybe 3 cars of you're really going at it and super flawless in your craft. (Unlikely). So 22.5k becomes 6-9k an hour.

 

Is this good enough? In my opinion, no. Its pretty darn dejecting if you ask me.

 

The reason I also feel this needs to change is because in all honesty....being a criminal feels like it isn't that lucrative sometimes, those who play criminal characters have to go through a lot of risk vs. reward to get what they want and collect some sweet sweet cash in the end. This does not factor in just being caught by the law, but the prospect of being caught by other gangs and individuals, here in Los Santos anyone can fuck you over if they felt like it. Its all a part of playing the game. But part of the game is also providing a great RP experience at the very end of things, when criminals are rewarded for their dastardly deeds, they do more, and more! What does this do? Provide roleplay! For who? Well, anyone!

 

Sorry if this seemingly went on and on, admittedly I'm a bit all over the place with my thoughts on the situation, I feel like a few things need changing, this would be a nice start.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully we get some good ol' counter arguments!

[VeridianPhantom]

The only thing I'll add to this, is whoever is paying out the cash at the chop shop, is probably also the "guy" working there, thus it would make sense for you personally to not have to stick around for the chopping of said car, if you get the cash then walk away and thus the car begins getting chopped up.

 

So, proposition is, remove timer, increase cash payout to be better than the legal jobs. Not marginally better, but good enough to matter.

 

As for gangs taxing you, well... Get in good with the gangs mate or don't do it alone. That's just an RP thing, if cops wanna camp them, there's what... 4 chop shops? Can't all be guarded by police at all times, they got better things to do than sit there 24/7.

[Jaackla]

Just to counter the high end car subject

Currently in shop shops (i think from what ive been told) the higher end cars are worth a bit more in the chop shop so they are already targeted but it is very rare to come across a high end car thats not in a NCZ, i think ive seen 1 or 2 that have been able to be robbed but more or less its the cars worth 3k that you can steal which are the standard cars

There 100% needs to be more reward in chopping just because of how high risk it is, how much police are over it and the jail time and criminal record you can get for pretty much pennys

[Teca]

If timer is to be removed then breaking into the car needs to be more complex in my oppinion to counter balance it in a way.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Teca

[TheCanadian]

14 hours ago, Jaackla said:

The timer on a chop shop needs to come down a lot and the money for cars needs to rise

The timer should not come down, i think a factor you are forgetting about is the fact the owner should be given a reasonable window of time to have a chance to get the car back. Anything that would go down to lets say 3-5minutes it would narrow the window of time for the owner to put out a BOLO or hunt it down and get to chopshop significantly. At that point it wouldnt be fair for the owner of the vehicle as they would have little to no chance to retrieve it. 

14 hours ago, Swagmiku said:

My suggestion would be to remove the timer entirely, why? Because it just makes sense. If an aspiring criminal went through all of the potential trouble of stealing a car (Which can play out in a variety of different scenarios and not always succeed mind you.) It should at least make sense that the criminal in question drops off said stolen car to said chopping area, collect their cash, then walk away. Why sit there and look after the car for so long when it shouldn't be your problem?

Maybe an in-between could be interesting? No way an instant chop would be healthy for the server in my opinion. This would be way, way too easy for the thief and make BOLOs for stolen vehicles nearly useless. The owner would have such a short window of time to intercept the thief on his way to chopshop it wouldn't be reasonable. Perhaps you can 'drop it off' at the chop while the mechanics are working on it, allowing you to go and get another vehicle but with the risk of the owner being able to sneak it and get it away while you are no longer looking over it? Im sure there could be a lot of counters to this suggestion, just looking for alternatives of OP's and your suggestion.

14 hours ago, Jaackla said:

Now you wont ever make money like that because you would have to have 1 car after another there when in reality you chop the car then you have f all and run around until you find somewhere and then find a car to steal and do the same thing. So you aint making anywhere near that money

Now keep in mind, 3k is the minimum you can get, once you know the locations that a lot of people tend to leave their cars or you set up a proper operation to chop you can make more than the numbers you have mentioned. You can also get much higher value cars if you rob people for the ones they are in, you just have to be properly organized and have the required firepower.

14 hours ago, Jaackla said:

Also gangs have started controlling chop shops and taxing everyone now to come in and chop a car
Police are always around chop shops so its hard to chop a car unless a big gang is there but then you lose money that way too

You have a choice not to chop and wait for our operation to be over (i.e bigger situation going on we have to tend to) or pay the small fee to keep the rest of the money the chop yields. Personally i do not think the amount the chopshop gives should be changed based off of IC events/issues such as people 'owning' the chopshop and taxing its users. 

I do have a biased point of view as i am part of the group that 'takes over' chopshop and does the contracts to tax people using it, but i think it is really great RP. It would be much easier and lucrative to just rob them all but that wouldn't be as enjoyable for either side. I do not think the interactions at the chopshop would be the same if you could instantly chop the vehicles.

 

14 hours ago, Swagmiku said:

- Expensive cars would definitely be targeted more than their less expensive counterparts, in my opinion, if you have an expensive car (That isn't an import.) chances are you've been playing on the server for a while, and have either some money saved, or a ton of money saved, or somewhere in between. I feel for these people in particular because I feel like expensive car owners will have the loudest voices in this thread. I am not entirely aware of the process, but as a bit of relief I would suggest stolen cars be comped entirely for free, or for a small price at Mors, with maybe an hour or thirty minute timer starting when the car is chopped.

You make a decent point here and the expensive cars are targeted heavily when spotted by those who can take them on and rob their owner. Though the amount that they will be targeted versus their less expensive counterpart will probably not change change as there are so many chebureks, warreners, or other much less expensive vehicles. I disagree with the yellow highlighted text though unless you meant for it to apply just to the very cheap cars, then maybe i would agree. There has to be a cost for your vehicle to be chopped because you failed to park it in a safe spot, got mugged, or any other scenario. If there isnt then the vehicle owner can just take their 2 most expensive cars out of their garage when they go offline or know they wont need it for awhile and let their buddies get the cash for the chop with little to no cost for the owner.

 

4 hours ago, Teca said:

If timer is to be removed then breaking into the car needs to be more complex in my oppinion to counter balance it in a way.

This could be interesting, but on the other hand the main risk would now move to the lockpicking of the car and i can see a lot of arguments also being made against that such as being exposed in the open for too long. Maybe a skillcheck could be added? as the better you get and more cars you chop you would get better over time and improve your efficiency with chopping vehicles? I have absolutely no idea how this could be added or if its possible, just thinking of other options. 

 

13 hours ago, VeridianPhantom said:

So, proposition is, remove timer, increase cash payout to be better than the legal jobs. Not marginally better, but good enough to matter.

Making it instant would be bad for the above mentioned reasons having to do with the owner getting it back along with removing a decent amount of RP having to do with it. But i also think making it instant AND increasing the cash payout would be making it way too lucrative. 

 

I'm unsure whether to +1 or -1. Lots to think about, and sorry for the long ass read.

Edited March 21, 2019 by TheCanadian

[Swagmiku]

24 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

The timer should not come down, i think a factor you are forgetting about is the fact the owner should be given a reasonable window of time to have a chance to get the car back. Anything that would go down to lets say 3-5minutes it would narrow the window of time for the owner to put out a BOLO or hunt it down and get to chopshop significantly. At that point it wouldnt be fair for the owner of the vehicle as they would have little to no chance to retrieve it. 

Maybe an in-between could be interesting? No way an instant chop would be healthy for the server in my opinion. This would be way, way too easy for the thief and make BOLOs for stolen vehicles nearly useless. The owner would have such a short window of time to intercept the thief on his way to chopshop it wouldn't be reasonable. Perhaps you can 'drop it off' at the chop while the mechanics are working on it, allowing you to go and get another vehicle but with the risk of the owner being able to sneak it and get it away while you are no longer looking over it? Im sure there could be a lot of counters to this suggestion, just looking for alternatives of OP's and your suggestion.

Now keep in mind, 3k is the minimum you can get, once you know the locations that a lot of people tend to leave their cars or you set up a proper operation to chop you can make more than the numbers you have mentioned. You can also get much higher value cars if you rob people for the ones they are in, you just have to be properly organized and have the required firepower.

You have a choice not to chop and wait for our operation to be over (i.e bigger situation going on we have to tend to) or pay the small fee to keep the rest of the money the chop yields. Personally i do not think the amount the chopshop gives should be changed based off of IC events/issues such as people 'owning' the chopshop and taxing its users. 

I do have a biased point of view as i am part of the group that 'takes over' chopshop and does the contracts to tax people using it, but i think it is really great RP. It would be much easier and lucrative to just rob them all but that wouldn't be as enjoyable for either side. I do not think the interactions at the chopshop would be the same if you could instantly chop the vehicles.

 

You make a decent point here and the expensive cars are targeted heavily when spotted by those who can take them on and rob their owner. Though the amount that they will be targeted versus their less expensive counterpart will probably not change change as there are so many chebureks, warreners, or other much less expensive vehicles. I disagree with the yellow highlighted text though unless you meant for it to apply just to the very cheap cars, then maybe i would agree. There has to be a cost for your vehicle to be chopped because you failed to park it in a safe spot, got mugged, or any other scenario. If there isnt then the vehicle owner can just take their 2 most expensive cars out of their garage when they go offline and let their buddies get the cash for the chop with little to no cost for the owner.

 

This could be interesting, but on the other hand the main risk would now move to the lockpicking of the car and i can see a lot of arguments also being made against that such as being exposed in the open for too long. Maybe a skillcheck could be added? as the better you get and more cars you chop you would get better over time and improve your efficiency with chopping vehicles? I have absolutely no idea how this could be added or if its possible, just thinking of other options. 

 

Making it instant would be bad for the above mentioned reasons having to do with the owner getting it back along with removing a decent amount of RP having to do with it. But i also think making it instant AND increasing the cash payout would be making it way too lucrative. 

 

I'm unsure whether to +1 or -1. Lots to think about, and sorry for the long ass read.

You've made multiple good points, especially on my proposal you highlighted in yellow. I didn't realize how game breaking that would be until you pointed it out. So thanks!

I've read your comment and would like to add my own opinions shortly (As soon as I'm done eating this deliciw sandwich and getting home!)

[xxxJustTimmy]

19 hours ago, VeridianPhantom said:

So, proposition is, remove timer, increase cash payout to be better than the legal jobs. Not marginally better, but good enough to matter.

+1 

[st3fan333]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:44 AM, Swagmiku said:

+1 There needs to be more reward as  opposed to the risk from doing this in my honest opinion. A lot of other things need tweaking but this would be a good start. 

One of the main complaints against this particular argument/suggestion you're proposing is that it would be too easy/unrealistic for a car to be chopped in anything less than 8 minutes. Some would call for more time to be added, but frankly, adding more time would just make it not worthwhile. Besides, taking apart/chopping a whole car in 8 minutes is already short and kinda unrealistic.

 

My suggestion would be to remove the timer entirely, why? Because it just makes sense. If an aspiring criminal went through all of the potential trouble of stealing a car (Which can play out in a variety of different scenarios and not always succeed mind you.) It should at least make sense that the criminal in question drops off said stolen car to said chopping area, collect their cash, then walk away. Why sit there and look after the car for so long when it shouldn't be your problem?

 

What are the effects of everything I just mentioned above? I'll try and lay them out on the table below as best as I can in my current tired state:

 

- Car thefts would definitely happen a lot more often.

- Owners of cars would DEFINITELY go to greater length to realistically park their cars securely and safely. (How many times have you passed a random car just sitting on the road? Seriously, who does that in the real world?)

- The potential for car theft role play on both the thieves and owners side increase substantially. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it should be expected in this kind of roleplay environment.

- Expensive cars would definitely be targeted more than their less expensive counterparts, in my opinion, if you have an expensive car (That isn't an import.) chances are you've been playing on the server for a while, and have either some money saved, or a ton of money saved, or somewhere in between. I feel for these people in particular because I feel like expensive car owners will have the loudest voices in this thread. I am not entirely aware of the process, but as a bit of relief I would suggest stolen cars be comped entirely for free, or for a small price at Mors, with maybe an hour or thirty minute timer starting when the car is chopped.

 

As for the activity being more lucrative? To be honest, I've never chopped a car, but using your calculation of 3k a car x 7.5 cars = 22.5k in 1 hour  ....22.5k in one hour is probably the most you can get, but its also an unattainable figure given the amount of in between time that goes into stealing and chopping a car, so if we're being realistic here, you could probably get away with chopping 1 or 2, maybe 3 cars of you're really going at it and super flawless in your craft. (Unlikely). So 22.5k becomes 6-9k an hour.

 

Is this good enough? In my opinion, no. Its pretty darn dejecting if you ask me.

 

The reason I also feel this needs to change is because in all honesty....being a criminal feels like it isn't that lucrative sometimes, those who play criminal characters have to go through a lot of risk vs. reward to get what they want and collect some sweet sweet cash in the end. This does not factor in just being caught by the law, but the prospect of being caught by other gangs and individuals, here in Los Santos anyone can fuck you over if they felt like it. Its all a part of playing the game. But part of the game is also providing a great RP experience at the very end of things, when criminals are rewarded for their dastardly deeds, they do more, and more! What does this do? Provide roleplay! For who? Well, anyone!

 

Sorry if this seemingly went on and on, admittedly I'm a bit all over the place with my thoughts on the situation, I feel like a few things need changing, this would be a nice start.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully we get some good ol' counter arguments!

I’m just going to pick up on one point;

I go to great lengths to hide my car... it becomes beyond ridiculous. I park my car in the DCC employees car park (Casino) and there hasn’t been a time that someone hasn’t stolen my car or at least attempted to. I’m not even going to say how I hide my bike... all I will say is that it becomes invisible (not a bug) and there’s been a time someone found it! I feel like it’s too easy to steal cars. But I wouldn’t want to make it harder for the criminals to steal cars.

On a side note;

@FatherOsborn When I report a stolen car, is that actually noted down somewhere? Because I reported my car stolen 3 times and every time I came back to check on any findings I’ve been told that my car isn’t reported as stole.

[Swagmiku]

43 minutes ago, st3fan333 said:

I’m just going to pick up on one point;

I go to great lengths to hide my car... it becomes beyond ridiculous. I park my car in the DCC employees car park (Casino) and there hasn’t been a time that someone hasn’t stolen my car or at least attempted to. I’m not even going to say how I hide my bike... all I will say is that it becomes invisible (not a bug) and there’s been a time someone found it! I feel like it’s too easy to steal cars. But I wouldn’t want to make it harder for the criminals to steal cars.

On a side note;

@FatherOsborn When I report a stolen car, is that actually noted down somewhere? Because I reported my car stolen 3 times and every time I came back to check on any findings I’ve been told that my car isn’t reported as stole.

From what I gather. Your vehicles should be safe in most NCZs and working/business areas. I'm not entirely sure though, I could be wrong! You might be under very unique circumstances I'm unaware of haha!

[st3fan333]

Just now, Swagmiku said:

From what I gather. Your vehicles should be safe in most NCZs and working/business areas. I'm not entirely sure though, I could be wrong! You might be under very unique circumstances I'm unaware of haha!

See, I wish that was the case, I'm unaware of any rule like that (except the NCZ). But still as a ((New player)) I wasn't aware of the NCZ rule being implemented in the Bus Depot too and I had my car stolen from there every time; so annoying!

[Swagmiku]

5 minutes ago, st3fan333 said:

See, I wish that was the case, I'm unaware of any rule like that (except the NCZ). But still as a ((New player)) I wasn't aware of the NCZ rule being implemented in the Bus Depot too and I had my car stolen from there every time; so annoying!

Aha! There's a neat little command you can use to check whether you're in an NCZ just type in /ncz lmao!

 

Also, new player huh? If you need any help or just want to get down to roleplaying please feel free to send me a DM! I'll show you the ropes (or try!)

[st3fan333]

Just now, Swagmiku said:

Aha! There's a neat little command you can use to check whether you're in an NCZ just type in /ncz lmao!

 

Also, new player huh? If you need any help or just want to get down to roleplaying please feel free to send me a DM! I'll show you the ropes (or try!)

I'm good now hahaha  thank you  it was just 2 weeks ago when I was new and unaware of anything lol

I managed to grasp it quickly 

 

Thank you!

[MusketDeezNuts]

I was actually thinking of making a suggestion to make the chopshops a new type of turf system. A gang can controll it and get a cut from every chopped vehicle on exchange for protection. That gang can set the prices for the vehicle types. However, the turfs can be taken like the old turf system we used to have.

[TheCanadian]

 

15 hours ago, st3fan333 said:

I’m not even going to say how I hide my bike... all I will say is that it becomes invisible (not a bug) and there’s been a time someone found it!

Im now going to look in every bush in the server to find your bike.

Edited March 23, 2019 by TheCanadian

[TheCanadian]

13 hours ago, MusketDeezNuts said:

I was actually thinking of making a suggestion to make the chopshops a new type of turf system. A gang can controll it and get a cut from every chopped vehicle on exchange for protection. That gang can set the prices for the vehicle types. However, the turfs can be taken like the old turf system we used to have.

this would actually be awesome, +1

[st3fan333]

Just now, TheCanadian said:

 

Im now going to look in every bush in the server to find your bike.

[Mr. Mandude]

Does this mean that god and every man goes around chopping cars? Can't say that's what I expected of the server

[KurtLaser]

I think we need the Chop Shop Managers opinion.

Somebody get Skinny in here.

I quite like the idea of the chopshop being a turf which gangs can fight over. Big money in them taxes.

[CertifiedMixed]

-1 for the very first opinion
+1 for MusketDeezNuts opinion

Only what MusketDeezNuts has said about the chop shop should happen, more fun for factions. 
 

[Saif]

+1, what happened to this?

[ITZ_THE_F0NZ]

+1 I agree, the risk-money ratio simply is NOT enough, the risk you run of getting caught by not only the owner of the car, the police or gang members is a huge factor, the timer needs to come down and the price needs to be increased.

-1

i agree that this price and time should not be massively decreased and increased as car thefts would only go up, bringing us all back to that time where car robberies would happen too often, but I do agree that the level of risk currently does not match up with the money returned. 

[PingasOner]

If you increase the reward, there should be a hotwiring kit, because RPly you wouldn't have the keys to cars? +1

[Xoza]

+1

Should be able to tear apart cars from anywhere as well, only go to a chopshop to black market sell those parts, maybe the back of an auto parts store. Like drug drop offs.

 

Semi Related, and would support difficulty as well as allow increased RP and pay.

 

[Puzzling]

Greetings, while I may be posting this 3 years later, there was an entire chop overhaul implemented!

I would give it a try!

Locked and Archived.