The Mechanic Issue and the OOC Implications

[Herbo]

I think it's fair to say that right now there's a mechanic issue, whenever I go to LSC I'm lucky to even find a mechanic on-duty and while Bayview does have some mechanics, it's really not a whole lot that I see actively playing. This results in us having to wait a very long time to get vehicles repaired at the shop due to it normally being 1 or so mechanic doing all the work and also insanely long wait times to get mechanic requests answered.

This comes to my suggestion, adding some either item that allows us to use it and it repairs our car to 300 so we can drive it carefully to the mechanics and get it repaired, or change the script and make it vehicles get slower and slower and backfire more the closer you to get 0 and upon getting to 0 they can't drive anymore. I have personally spent a pretty decent amount of money on the server to buy credit vehicles and other such things. It's to the point where the cars I've spent $100+ on, are unusable because no mechanics are responding to mech requests and they're perma stalled.

It's so annoying that I'm completely unable to drive my Corsita which costed around $70-90, my Jugular which costed around $70-90, and my Shinobi which was the same price because mechanics just won't respond to mechanic requests. Along with that if you end up leaving your car somewhere, there's a ridiculously high chance it gets stolen and by the time you get it backed it's perma stalled because the person was a shit driver and/or they just kicked it down to 0 to be a troll.

The literal only solution that their currently is for this problem (campfiring your car) is considered NRP, and while I'm not disagreeing with the fact that it's NRP. I think there needs to be some viable solution figured out for this problem.

[DontSniffSugar]

I would like the idea of being able to fix your cars using a car jack and some sort of tool like a repair kit.

 

Not completely fixing your car, but moreso just getting it just to the point to turn on again.

Edited October 7, 2023 by DontSniffSugar

[Quietthecutie]

4 minutes ago, DontSniffSugar said:

I would like the idea of being able to fix your cars using a car jack and some sort of tool like a repair kit.

 

Not completely fixing your car, but moreso just getting it just to the point to turn on again.

agreed. like the ability to put it at 350 durability or something. enough to get it running again without putting what few active mechanics there are out of a job.

[Bala]

The question really though @Herbo is do you treat the symptom or the root cause off the issues?

• LSC lacks reliable leadership. It changes the owner 2-3 times a year and with it, you never really see an identity or community of people establish. Look at what Lilymay Bryd has done for DCC. Before her, the leadership kept changing hands and DCC suffered as a result
  With a stable leader, you have a base to build. LSC needs not just a leader with ideas but probably a leader with friends. Make that shop into a community of people.
   
• With the increase of the amount of Government Factions to join, LSC was further marginalised and being a mechanic is simply less attractive than a law enforcement, law or government job. In the context of our server, you don't really drive around, you don't get a gun. You're stuck at the same location almost all the time.
  
  I think the bottom line also is that, the server's player base isn't big enough for two large mechanic factions, if you want to have any kind of standard of person working there. If I'm interested in Mechanic RP in this server, i'm taking my ass to Bayview.
   
• The lack of development in the mechanics marginalises their role in the server. The faction is entirely dependent on, players wanting fixes or customisations for their vehicles and nothing else really, some calls to respond to but you are doing that at the cost of those visiting your shop. Beyond that, there is nothing for them to do in the server. Beyond that, it's the same couple of commands with /me and honestly, this isn't a high roleplay server. Our player base needs a different kind of stimulation and mechanics are no different.

If you said to me, Bala, oh wise one, what would you do to rectify this?

• Give the faction to @Chrisy and friends, if they still want to do it.
  All things considered, like I said, at this juncture, it's going to take either someone REALLY into mechanic roleplay or someone with enough willing friends to make it work.
   
• Consider increasing the wage cap just for mechanics in the server to $10,000. 
  Like it or not, money talks and maybe you don't aim LSC at long time players but at people looking to get started. Mechanics are some what of an essential service but they are denied the sorts of RP that
   
• Add an Emergency Starter Kit for vehicles that will start and heal a perma-stalled vehicle enough to get it running again.
  This would be a similar premise to CityBees, you would only be able to use it if less than say.. 2 mechanics were on duty. You don't want to eliminate mechanics going around the map doing repairs but you don't want to inconvenience players either.
   
• Add an auto-repair location at Los Santos Customs and Bayview that will repair a person's car entirely, for $1500, with that money going to the treasury of either Bayview or LSC, depending on location.
  Again, this would be a similar premise to CityBees, you would only be able to use it if less than say, 2 mechanics were on duty. You don't want to eliminate mechanics doing repairs but you don't want to inconvenience players either. If you have to get a repair done either way, you will need to go to LSC or Bayview.
   
• Give mechanics the ability to install car speakers for cheaper than stores.
   
• Mechanics can drop off permastalled vehicles at Mors Insurance for faction $$$.
   
• Spawn "Broken" un-startable civilian vehicles around the map that have different random car issues to fix.
  Each broken vehicle will have different things wrong with it.
  A vehicle might need a fresh oil change or it might need new spark plugs and a wheel change. 
  The mechanic would have to perform the action(s) on the vehicle to fix it and the faction treasury would get money from a successful fix.
  The vehicle would then become an extra civilian vehicles, that can be stolen and chopped.
   
• When fixing a player car at LSC or Bayview, there will be random issues the mechanic has to fix to complete the repair.
  Instead of just the /me's that seem to be binded at times, the mechanics would have certain things to solve on a vehicle when doing a repair. Replacing oil, spark plugs, fan belt, battery, engine coolant. They wouldn't impact the vehicle owner in any way, but a mechanic would have to diagnose the issues and solve them to repair the car.
   
• To respray a vehicle a different colour, a mechanic would have to interact with all parts of a vehicle like they are chopping it.
  Instead of dismantle, it'd be respray.
  Couple successful rotations of the interaction ring would colour a part. So, you'd have to do like bonnet, doors and trunk.
  Something a bit more active than just /me's.

I know we're big on the /me's for our mechanic factions but if I'm honest, they're for nobody. The owner just wants their car and no one else is interacting with the mechanic while they are doing this.

[XeV]

50 minutes ago, Bala said:

The question really though @Herbo is do you treat the symptom or the root cause off the issues?

• LSC lacks reliable leadership. It changes the owner 2-3 times a year and with it, you never really see an identity or community of people establish. Look at what Lilymay Bryd has done for DCC. Before her, the leadership kept changing hands and DCC suffered as a result
  With a stable leader, you have a base to build. LSC needs not just a leader with ideas but probably a leader with friends. Make that shop into a community of people.
   
• With the increase of the amount of Government Factions to join, LSC was further marginalised and being a mechanic is simply less attractive than a law enforcement, law or government job. In the context of our server, you don't really drive around, you don't get a gun. You're stuck at the same location almost all the time.
  
  I think the bottom line also is that, the server's player base isn't big enough for two large mechanic factions, if you want to have any kind of standard of person working there. If I'm interested in Mechanic RP in this server, i'm taking my ass to Bayview.
   
• The lack of development in the mechanics marginalises their role in the server. The faction is entirely dependent on, players wanting fixes or customisations for their vehicles and nothing else really, some calls to respond to but you are doing that at the cost of those visiting your shop. Beyond that, there is nothing for them to do in the server. Beyond that, it's the same couple of commands with /me and honestly, this isn't a high roleplay server. Our player base needs a different kind of stimulation and mechanics are no different.

If you said to me, Bala, oh wise one, what would you do to rectify this?

• Give the faction to @Chrisy and friends, if they still want to do it.
  All things considered, like I said, at this juncture, it's going to take either someone REALLY into mechanic roleplay or someone with enough willing friends to make it work.
   
• Consider increasing the wage cap just for mechanics in the server to $10,000. 
  Like it or not, money talks and maybe you don't aim LSC at long time players but at people looking to get started. Mechanics are some what of an essential service but they are denied the sorts of RP that
   
• Add an Emergency Starter Kit for vehicles that will start and heal a perma-stalled vehicle enough to get it running again.
  This would be a similar premise to CityBees, you would only be able to use it if less than say.. 2 mechanics were on duty. You don't want to eliminate mechanics going around the map doing repairs but you don't want to inconvenience players either.
   
• Add an auto-repair location at Los Santos Customs and Bayview that will repair a person's car entirely, for $1500, with that money going to the treasury of either Bayview or LSC, depending on location.
  Again, this would be a similar premise to CityBees, you would only be able to use it if less than say, 2 mechanics were on duty. You don't want to eliminate mechanics doing repairs but you don't want to inconvenience players either. If you have to get a repair done either way, you will need to go to LSC or Bayview.
   
• Give mechanics the ability to install car speakers for cheaper than stores.
   
• Mechanics can drop off permastalled vehicles at Mors Insurance for faction $$$.
   
• Spawn "Broken" un-startable civilian vehicles around the map that have different random car issues to fix.
  Each broken vehicle will have different things wrong with it.
  A vehicle might need a fresh oil change or it might need new spark plugs and a wheel change. 
  The mechanic would have to perform the action(s) on the vehicle to fix it and the faction treasury would get money from a successful fix.
  The vehicle would then become an extra civilian vehicles, that can be stolen and chopped.
   
• When fixing a player car at LSC or Bayview, there will be random issues the mechanic has to fix to complete the repair.
  Instead of just the /me's that seem to be binded at times, the mechanics would have certain things to solve on a vehicle when doing a repair. Replacing oil, spark plugs, fan belt, battery, engine coolant. They wouldn't impact the vehicle owner in any way, but a mechanic would have to diagnose the issues and solve them to repair the car.
   
• To respray a vehicle a different colour, a mechanic would have to interact with all parts of a vehicle like they are chopping it.
  Instead of dismantle, it'd be respray.
  Couple successful rotations of the interaction ring would colour a part. So, you'd have to do like bonnet, doors and trunk.
  Something a bit more active than just /me's.

I know we're big on the /me's for our mechanic factions but if I'm honest, they're for nobody. The owner just wants their car and no one else is interacting with the mechanic while they are doing this.

homie spitting as per usual, I was a LSC mechanic for a GOOD AMOUNT of time on the OG ledge before the full LSC makeover. Only reason I did it is because the people I worked with then made it enjoyable and everyone was friends. New LSC over the past multiple leadership changes is so bland and meh. Bala is just spewing good ideas that will 100% get overlooked as per usual even tho he speaks for like 95% of the community in his exact words. 

One of the biggest turn offs of being a mechanic was honestly the /me's and /do's cause as bala said "They're for nobody" whats the actual point? your allowed to use macros and keybinds anyway. I remember getting teleported to diff dim and talked to by a staff member for not doing /me's on my own vehicle in the shop. Why would I do RP with myself in the form of text?

Mirror Park Tuning would have bankrupt LSC and Bayview if it was given the time of day by staff or devs, Why? because as bala ALSO said " it's going to take either someone REALLY into mechanic roleplay or someone with enough willing friends to make it work." and MPT had MANY friends ready to try and help, but it was shut down due to only being allowed to be a "sister bayview" and fall under bay views leadership and rules. The server will not wanna see a freelance leader run a gov faction of this magnitude. The easier to control the better. 

 

https://streamable.com/zwhzhs RIP Nate and Marco

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by XeV

[power]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

 

• When fixing a player car at LSC or Bayview, there will be random issues the mechanic has to fix to complete the repair.
  Instead of just the /me's that seem to be binded at times, the mechanics would have certain things to solve on a vehicle when doing a repair. Replacing oil, spark plugs, fan belt, battery, engine coolant. They wouldn't impact the vehicle owner in any way, but a mechanic would have to diagnose the issues and solve them to repair the car.
   
• To respray a vehicle a different colour, a mechanic would have to interact with all parts of a vehicle like they are chopping it.
  Instead of dismantle, it'd be respray.
  Couple successful rotations of the interaction ring would colour a part. So, you'd have to do like bonnet, doors and trunk.
  Something a bit more active than just /me's.

I know we're big on the /me's for our mechanic factions but if I'm honest, they're for nobody. The owner just wants their car and no one else is interacting with the mechanic while they are doing this.

To expand on this, give us minigames. Not the action timer. But even if you just yoink some Among Us tasks and make it so for a mechanic to repair your car they have to successfully beat the minigame 5 times and each time they complete the minigame, output a /me or /do. Heck, if you want to take it even further, if a mechanic fails the minigame then your car gets repaired to a lower standard. 1 win = 200 HP, so depending on how many times the mechanic beats the game, depends on how much they repair the car.

 

2 hours ago, Bala said:

 

• Consider increasing the wage cap just for mechanics in the server to $10,000. 
  Like it or not, money talks and maybe you don't aim LSC at long time players but at people looking to get started. Mechanics are some what of an essential service but they are denied the sorts of RP that

It's hard to convince people to join faction jobs for the money when freelance jobs have received such a large monetary buff, and the only real leg we have to stand in is the social interaction & connections you make through faction jobs. Freelance jobs got buffed, why can't we get a buff too?

[Quietthecutie]

Well Hecc this blew up. 

If we are talking about root causes, I have to agree that mechanic jobs are among the most boring/irritating. I do not think its a monetary issue. Mechanics already make bank. they don't need a raise. they make about as much as any government employee. 

Also I don't think this is a problem with mechanic high command. certainly they do as much for their factions as other commands do. sometimes more. and perhaps we should look at the rate of turnover of high command as just another section of "people leaving cus this job aint worth it."

The problem, Is that its a job that constantly requires you to do repetitive, boring work. there is no fun to be had here. no variety. dudes roll in either wanting a repair or mods and you do the exact same thing every time. even if the well meaning mechanic tries to spice it up with their roleplay, no customer gives a shit so its completely one sided. might as well be roleplaying with yourself. which is why, as previously said, 95% of mechanics just macro it out.

The focus must be on improving the variety and appeal of the mechanic job. be this in amongus minigames or some other way. Cars are so vital to any GTARP server and the fact we are struggling to service them at times is frankly embarrassing.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[Herbo]

To add onto my original post

The main issue I find is that there’s never enough mechanics for us to be able to consistently make mechanic requests, I would be fine with having like 3 mechanics total on duty if it didn’t completely prevent us from using the mechanic request service. 

I personally think that the best change that could be done right now, is changing how the vehicle stalling system works. Make it to the point vehicles can turn on and drive until they hit 0. As you get further and further to 0 your vehicles drives slower, takes longer to start if you turn it off, backfires more, etc. Make this a temporary change until staff/devs/whoever can tackle the mechanic issue. While I agree this might not make the MOST sense, I feel it’s a valid temporary solution to a problem that can be reverted once the problem is fixed.

Like I said in my original post, it’s extremely frustrating that I’m completely unable to use my numerous vehicles that i’ve paid money for because I either crashed it and perma stalled it, or some trolly player went and kicked it down and stalled it because they thought it was funny. I imagine this could be even more frustrating for the people that spent HOURS grinding and roleplaying to buy a car that they can’t drive anymore. 

I have never tried mechanic RP so I cannot make any comments on the RP or even give suggestions to fix it. I think this is something that should be tackled by Bayview/LSC respective command members and staff/devs to figure out a fix.

Hopefully some fix can be figured out because this is a growing issue on the server that I feel like almost every player can agree on the fact it’s an issue.

[jason]

Hi there.

We're currently permitted to supplement roleplay as mechanics at this moment in time if none are online due to this shortage. If this is the case, you can make a /report 1 asking us to roleplay the mechanic with you per @Lewis's internal announcement.

[Demonmit1]

4 hours ago, power said:

It's hard to convince people to join faction jobs for the money when freelance jobs have received such a large monetary buff, and the only real leg we have to stand in is the social interaction & connections you make through faction jobs. Freelance jobs got buffed, why can't we get a buff too?

I had brought this up in a recent post i made a week ago:

I go into more detail in one of the comments in that, but one of the things i had brought up is Faction jobs like Taxi or Mechanic should have some sort of system that pays the player commission for doing the RP job, on top of their base salary. 

for example, as a mechanic, your starting wage is $5500 an hour if you're signed in. other than that, theres no real gameplay incentive to do any of the job requests or work. obviously theres IC and OOC rules that need to be followed, but there should be some sort of gameplay mechanic that incentivizes players to also do the work. (outside of weekly bonuses / employee of the month/week)

My idea for mechanics specifically was they should get a % of the fee for the work they do. so, a car pulls up and pays $850 for a repair? the mechanic that does that labor gets $425. a mechanic is out driving around doing roadside? they should get $1250 of the $2500 roadside repair fee.

obviously specific numbers need to be worked out, but right now there pay for working at the faction jobs actively discourages players from signing up and going through the effort required to join and RP as a faction job player, where Freelance pays double the amount for no upfront RP effort required.

[Benjamin Berg]

I think a simple fix to this, as others have said, would be to keep the auto repair booths open 24/7 potentially for a fixed price.

[power]

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

My idea for mechanics specifically was they should get a % of the fee for the work they do. so, a car pulls up and pays $850 for a repair? the mechanic that does that labor gets $425. a mechanic is out driving around doing roadside? they should get $1250 of the $2500 roadside repair fee.
 

Are we saying they get a cut of the base or labour? If labour then I don't think so, factions already rely so heavily on the hourly income from Gov, so taking away even further from that income that factions make would be a bad idea. I'd be down for them to get a cut of the base price, but I think we need to leave the labour price to the faction treasuries

[Demonmit1]

1 hour ago, power said:

Are we saying they get a cut of the base or labour? If labour then I don't think so, factions already rely so heavily on the hourly income from Gov, so taking away even further from that income that factions make would be a bad idea. I'd be down for them to get a cut of the base price, but I think we need to leave the labour price to the faction treasuries

to be honest with you, i have no idea how the business side works with paying players to work as a mechanic, so i dont really understand your question.

im just saying gameplay wise, players working as mechanics should get paid for actively doing the game mechanics of the job, like doing repairs, upgrades, roadside repair, and tow truck driving, on top of their base salary. 

that shouldn't affect the income/profit of the business, it should just be a gameplay incentive for mechanics to actively engage in being a mechanic, and make more money for doing so, rather than being paid the same as someone who is not actively responding to mechanic requests.

For example. player 1 and player 2 are mechanics. they're both being paid $5500 hourly to stand at the mechanic shop and be there if someone shows up asking for a mechanic to fix their vehicle, player 1 wants to be more active in playing as a mechanic today, so they decide their not going to stand at the mechanic shop and handle the drive in repairs, they're going to be out in the city actively looking for people to help with repairs and respond to roadside mechanic requests. player 2 wants to not be as active today and would prefer to relax while handling the drive up only repairs when they show up. Player 1 is putting in more effort than player 2, but they both are getting paid the same, so theres no monetary incentive for player 1 to be so active. player one should get extra pay from the game for completing more jobs than player 2. 

the reason why there's a shortage of mechanics is the pay is low and there's no gameplay incentive for people to play like player 1, when you can play like player 2 and get paid the same either way. 

People in here are saying the way vehicles work should be changed, or that players should be able to repair their own vehicle, but that doesnt fix the root of the problem. the root of the problem is theres not enough active mechanics playing. there's not enough mechanics playing at a time because the pay is not remotely on par with other options available in game to justify the effort to become and play as a mechanic.

Edit:

just to say, I actively enjoy RPing as a tow truck driver and doing roadside repair. its something i want to do. but im not interested in signing up to work at a mechanic shop and drive tow trucks and do roadside because of how drastically low the pay is compared to freelance work, while also knowing the person standing at the repair shop afk till someone drives up asking for a repair is getting paid the same for way less effort. If i want to chill and make a bit of money, i go fish with friends. if i want to drive around working, i drive trucks. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Demonmit1

[Nunya]

11 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

If we are talking about root causes, I have to agree that mechanic jobs are among the most boring/irritating. I do not think its a monetary issue. Mechanics already make bank. they don't need a raise. they make about as much as any government employee. 

The mechanic job and RP is not boring for everyone. There are some that have genuinely enjoyed mechanic RP and that weren't so concerned about the pay. I personally enjoyed it and at one point was a member of both Bayview and MPT simultaneously simply because I enjoy the different aspects of what is possible. To be perfectly honest, very few care that you enjoy doing that RP and even less notice that you enjoy doing it. If you are an individual that enjoys that RP and works their way up in rank ICly for actually putting in the work there is very little reward(not talking $$) for someone that doesn't make other events, characters or other IC jobs their priority. 
 

[Quietthecutie]

6 hours ago, Nunya said:

The mechanic job and RP is not boring for everyone. There are some that have genuinely enjoyed mechanic RP and that weren't so concerned about the pay. I personally enjoyed it and at one point was a member of both Bayview and MPT simultaneously simply because I enjoy the different aspects of what is possible. To be perfectly honest, very few care that you enjoy doing that RP and even less notice that you enjoy doing it. If you are an individual that enjoys that RP and works their way up in rank ICly for actually putting in the work there is very little reward(not talking $$) for someone that doesn't make other events, characters or other IC jobs their priority. 
 

....what?

Gonna presume this is a language barrier thing but you seem to be agreeing with alot of what i said.

 

"because I enjoy the different aspects of what is possible."

Some Examples? from my point of view when I worked as a mechanic the job was repetitive and monotonous as hell. the only fun came from the social aspect which applies to all jobs. what different aspects? besides doing mods or repairs the only real variance of gameplay is Roadside but with so few mechanics getting roadside out is rare as heck and its never for parking violations, only for callouts.

"To be perfectly honest, very few care that you enjoy doing that RP and even less notice that you enjoy doing it."

This isn't a counterpoint, its core to the problem. if the RP has reached a level where neither the person doing it nor the person receiving it gives a shit, its just busywork for the sake of it. compare this to say, the duties of someone in MD, or PD, or DOC. all of those jobs have opportunities for RP that is varied, interesting and above all, Organic. with parties able to take RP in multiple directions. Mechanic jobs dont have that. 

The only saving grace the mechanic job has its its low entry barrier. its a job that basically anyone with a recently clean record can get and requires minimal knowledge of the city, so its a great way for beginners to get to know the city. unfortunately, this is also one of its biggest problems as its seen as a "beginner" job. once people get comfortable with the city and how it operates, most tend to move on.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[brentplaystv]

Lately playing early am hours on the east coast I've found myself logging out of frustration due to not being able to find a mechanic.. not to mention forget about /mechanic it aint happening.

Let us fix them to a drivable state please!!!

[Demonmit1]

4 hours ago, brentplaystv said:

Let us fix them to a drivable state please!!!

letting players fix their own vehicles doesn't fix the root of the problem. the root of the problem is there's not enough active mechanics. how do you fix that? pay them more to entice people to sign up and play as a mechanic. $5500 an hour is abysmal compared to the 10-14k an hour you can make on average doing freelance civ jobs.

[Nunya]

9 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

Some Examples? from my point of view when I worked as a mechanic the job was repetitive and monotonous as hell. the only fun came from the social aspect which applies to all jobs. what different aspects? besides doing mods or repairs the only real variance of gameplay is Roadside but with so few mechanics getting roadside out is rare as heck and its never for parking violations, only for callouts.

Frankly, one shouldn't presume a language barrier. Role Play is what you make of it as they say and isn't boring to everyone just because you say so. You worked at LSC for a short time which then you would have to join said Roadside division should you have chosen to do so to focus primarily on roadside repairs where there was an option to go out on roadside looking for repairs etc or taking the mechanic requests providing there were enough mechanics still in the shop allowing those to partake in all sorts of RP which can ever so literally lead to all types of "organic" interactions and socializing along the way. If you choose to just sit in the shop and do repetitive monotonous RP, join HR, or PR that was your choice to do so. Whereas, Bayview all that become part of that faction are trained for roadside mechanic requests and can do them. Otherwise, the faction members also have the option of being involved in every division should they choose to apply to do so. The two factions are not at all ran the same from the top down. I've had the opportunity to be part of both factions and there are considerable differences in the two in very many ways beyond the ignorance that the only organic RP can be had from doing roadside interactions.

Not everyone chooses mechanic RP to sit with a speaker and hang out with their pals in or outside a shop motivated solely for easy $$$. There have been a few posts about what people think about the mechanics or lack thereof, when most people choose it just for a paycheck starting out. Some like myself enjoyed role playing fixing cars and occasionally being a mildly menacing mechanic along with some customers as well as fellow mechanics and also enjoyed providing something that was beneficial to the server as a whole like ever so literally being a member of the community that would answer all kinds of questions far beyond any mechanic duties. There have been many people that my thinking outside the box saved them from the side of chiliad, not just their cars. Some actually spend some thought on their particular character arc's beyond having a chill time with the homies. I could have just as soon had my own welcome to the city office which I ever so literally joked ICly with Lewis about. I personally enjoyed interacting with new members of the community answering all of their questions about how to navigate gov website and where to find things and do stuff often not including their interest in becoming mechanics in between repairs, without having to join a faction doing some RP job sitting in a box doing "paperwork", which I already had plenty of experience with and very little actual RP thus chose not to do that anymore.

If you personally need examples, I was a customer once with Liam and he RPly found a slice of pizza under the hood my ass picked it up and took a bite and he was looking up a repair in a manual while I RPly did the repair. It was enjoyable RP for us that doesn't mean it will be enjoyable for everyone. It's all what you make of it if you aren't motivated by money and genuinely want to role play. I've also menacingly dropped wrenches in peoples engines and oops left them there.  For someone that chose to be a mechanic for a relatively short period of time, likely for an easy paycheck in their minds, I would presume they never really wanted to do mechanic RP in the first place and simply looked at it as an easy payday for the short term goals whereas I solely created a character who I ever so literally developed the arc to be a mechanic and had no desire to join other factions on that character despite attempts by others for me to join other legal factions.
 

10 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

compare this to say, the duties of someone in MD, or PD, or DOC. all of those jobs have opportunities for RP that is varied, interesting and above all, Organic. with parties able to take RP in multiple directions. Mechanic jobs dont have that. 

What you personally consider fun or enjoyable may be something completely different than what is enjoyable to the next person. I completely disagree that there is no opportunity for any organic varied RP, especially at Bayview where I was a faction member for 17 months. Nor was there no opportunity for organic RP at MPT when it was a thing and didn't even have access to towing. I pushed many cars across the city to MPT to repair them for people when no one was taking mechanic requests. Just because that wouldn't be funny or enjoyable to you, it was to those that witnessed such shenanigans like that of watching someone push the commander of SD's Kamacho down a street for a repair and end up with a whole crowd RPing together along the way. There will never be any two "point of views" that are exactly the same. Mechanic RP simply was not boring at all to me. I had tons of enjoyable interactions both mechanic RP wise and hundreds of various interactions because of choosing that RP.

12 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

This isn't a counterpoint, its core to the problem. if the RP has reached a level where neither the person doing it nor the person receiving it gives a shit, its just busywork for the sake of it

Me stating that very few care that you enjoy doing that RP and even less notice that you enjoy doing it is because they don't. In the event someone does notice you thoroughly enjoy that RP, well that still doesn't matter when you are merely a small fish in the big pond and not trying to be a contestant in some popularity contest. 

When I quit mechanic RP it certainly wasn't because I was bored with the RP. I had many reasons both IC and OOC for doing so. In saying that, None of which were because I was bored with mechanic RP. I've had many friends come and go for similar reasons.  My personal opinion is that saying it being a beginner job is it's only saving grace is only true because the faction leaders and management of those factions choose to not recognize which individuals aren't looking at those jobs like stepping stones to their other goals whether it be criminal in nature RP or simply to gain experience in order to join other legal factions that require a bit more experience in the server. 

Being uncertain that you were around at a time when we had a packed Pier every single day all hours the place was busy. When they "killed the pier" so to speak, the mechanic shops ever so literally became the new social hubs, way back then, aside from the people that found other more enjoyable places to go fishing or hang out and chill with their friends and acquaintances. Every change that has been made many of us have adjusted in some fashion experienced the growing pains such as the current situation with LSC and with mechanics in general many of us have seen before and will likely see again.
 

On 10/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, Bala said:

LSC lacks reliable leadership. It changes the owner 2-3 times a year and with it, you never really see an identity or community of people establish.

and

On 10/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, Bala said:

With a stable leader, you have a base to build. LSC needs not just a leader with ideas but probably a leader with friends. Make that shop into a community of people.

I fully agree with this. However, I don't really agree they need a pay increase near as much as you need a leader and people that genuinely enjoy that sort of RP, unmotivated by personal gain and are looking to do that long term in the community, to take on that responsibility.

@Bala Always has pretty good insight on a great deal of topics and his suggestions he has given would certainly help for those that find the RP boring as is. However, to me personally when people suggest that money talks, what I envision is, would be a job attracting more people that do not even enjoy mechanic RP at all just for that paycheck. If that's the case hell they can make close to 20k an hour driving a garbage truck if they become efficient at it.

At the end of the day, if you choose someone to lead a faction that doesn't really thoroughly enjoy that sort of RP to begin with, without the need for all sorts of additional bells and whistles that would prefer to be focusing their characters and time elsewhere, we will just end up repeating what has already been done many times before, just different actors same roles.  

 

[Bala]

It's somewhat frustrating because I've never been or had any interest in doing mechanic roleplay, in the entire time that I've been here. My 'insights' are just from being on the outside looking in, as opposed to being in the thick of it. Honestly, I think having good insights is great and everything, if it actually does any good but sometimes I'd rather just be completely wrong because then at least it isn't frustrating when nothing happens.

With all respect to Bayview, Los Santos Customs should be on paper, the more popular of the two factions considering it's location is smack back in the heart of most of where the population is but it isn't. Bayview has nearly double LSCs members despite having not as many applications and I think a lot of that is to do with the community that @Timmaayy and company have created up there. Having a dedicated group of people will get you through a lot of shit and reality is, Bayview has the same parameters as LSC does but the outcome is better.

Legal FM can choose to do nothing and LSC will still continue, with a limp. They'll still struggle for people to be around to work there, they'll likely change CEO again in a few months and there will be another thread created where people will say the same.

Legal FM could go with the easy fix, which is originally what was proposed, which is allowing people to fix their own vehicles. Personally, I think that might be convenient for players but it hurts LSC and Bayview because it's marginalising their role in the server which is already marginalised.

For me, Legal FM needs to look at this thread and pick the bits that they feel will work best for Eclipse and that the developers could deliver in a reasonable timeframe. I don't think it takes a lot of reinvention on the devs part, there are systems and such already in that could be copy-paste-edited but I think if you do it, then Bayview becomes even better but LSC doesn't then continue to frustrate the players and it's own staff either.

Plus, they get to use that sexy fucking MLO edit I did. @Lewis 

[Puzzling]

Without any dev work or radical changes, one of the other big issues that I see a lot with the two mechanic shops is the treatment of employees by the ECRP community. All anyone ever does is shit-talk them to tell them to work fast. Those kinds of people ruin the RP for everyone "Oh im just frustrated IC". No, you aren't, relax it's a game and people have lives. If you have so much time to play the game and wait 4 hours for a mechanic to accept your MR, go work at a shop and get free repairs for your car any time you want and help out everyone else while making a lot of money, I am sure it is super easy and fun!

End of the day, mechanics have lives, they would rather go outside or play on another character when all that happens is you get shit talked to and shot at because "no one is around".

Unfortunately, all these kinds of jobs are being paid by the government instead of all the money being handled internally with labor costs and paying out that way, so there is a limit on how much of a criminal you can be to still be employed at these places. I know a bunch of servers allow you to work at these jobs while being a criminal so long as they aren't murderers, but evading and less brutal crimes are allowed to continue employment. Might be something to look into in the future. For example, mechanics in the past have had race crews stem from the shop, LS Underground, for example, was a bunch of managers and mechanics who liked to street race, but if they got caught they were fired and had to turn illegal or go do nothing for 3 months until they can get hired again maybe. I feel like an owner of a garage might turn a blind eye to that so

rt of thing, but again these factions are government-funded so the government can't be "funding criminals".

If we allowed other kinds of criminal RP to take place with you to keep the job without the CEO of these companies getting fired or forced to fire you, it would also promote different sorts of criminal factions to become more of a thing without having to rely on shootouts to make money once you get fired from your job. Obviously, if people go and start murdering a bunch of people yea, you can not really turn a blind eye to that one.

 

Also just quoting this so it doesn't get lost for all the people reading this 15 messages down. Currently, use the staff if there are no members online! (Please remember this still requires a Mod+ to do this which may also not be available at certain times of the day)

On 10/8/2023 at 3:52 AM, jason said:

Hi there.

We're currently permitted to supplement roleplay as mechanics at this moment in time if none are online due to this shortage. If this is the case, you can make a /report 1 asking us to roleplay the mechanic with you per @Lewis's internal announcement.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Puzzling

[Kellie]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

It's somewhat frustrating because I've never been or had any interest in doing mechanic roleplay, in the entire time that I've been here. My 'insights' are just from being on the outside looking in, as opposed to being in the thick of it. Honestly, I think having good insights is great and everything, if it actually does any good but sometimes I'd rather just be completely wrong because then at least it isn't frustrating when nothing happens.

With all respect to Bayview, Los Santos Customs should be on paper, the more popular of the two factions considering it's location is smack back in the heart of most of where the population is but it isn't. Bayview has nearly double LSCs members despite having not as many applications and I think a lot of that is to do with the community that @Timmaayy and company have created up there. Having a dedicated group of people will get you through a lot of shit and reality is, Bayview has the same parameters as LSC does but the outcome is better.

Legal FM can choose to do nothing and LSC will still continue, with a limp. They'll still struggle for people to be around to work there, they'll likely change CEO again in a few months and there will be another thread created where people will say the same.

Legal FM could go with the easy fix, which is originally what was proposed, which is allowing people to fix their own vehicles. Personally, I think that might be convenient for players but it hurts LSC and Bayview because it's marginalising their role in the server which is already marginalised.

For me, Legal FM needs to look at this thread and pick the bits that they feel will work best for Eclipse and that the developers could deliver in a reasonable timeframe. I don't think it takes a lot of reinvention on the devs part, there are systems and such already in that could be copy-paste-edited but I think if you do it, then Bayview becomes even better but LSC doesn't then continue to frustrate the players and it's own staff either.

Plus, they get to use that sexy fucking MLO edit I did. @Lewis 

 

 

As someone that has been working both factions, I must disagree with you here. There is a reason LSC is not able to pick up as many people as Bayview can. While I agree that the work is the same, the sheer AMOUNT of work you have to do at LSC is just insane. When I am at bayview on my own, I get to have a breather and actually have the ability to talk to people, etc. At LSC I was happy to have a quiet MINUTE to actually engage in roleplay besides typing /me and /do. 

Just to put some math into this: Let's say I have a quiet-ish hour with roughly 20 cars to repair. Each car usually takes 1 - 2 minutes for me. LSC does not allow macros or copy pasting of roleplay. If I am lazy and don't wanna type too much, that roleplay will look like this:

/me looks at the license 
/me sends out an invoice
/me looks over the engine 
/me notices a punctured radiator
/me removes the radiator
/me refills the coolant
/me fixes the puncture with a flux dipped rod
/me puts the radiator back in 
/me closes the bonnet 

 

47 Words. 251 Characters. 

So in that hour, you have to roughly type 900 - 1000 words. If it is a quiet one. There is no interaction with another player while I type these words. I cannot use my VOIP while typing and I, obviousely, cannot type out responses while doing so. On top of that, maybe 1 in 10 customers interacts with me. If you are a new trainee / player that just wants to experience some roleplay, I fully understand why you would not want this. A lot of new LSC employees had, at one point, defaulted to hang around the shop while being clocked off because all the typing itself is just rather unfun to them. People WANT the connection with other players but the things around it just make the place rather difficult to be at. For the first month, after Liam took over ownership, I pulled 50 hours weeks (which would be 50.000 words typed for nothing) to make the place stand on its own. We had 10 people around multiple times when that happened, because people knew I'd pick up if they'd feel tired. But I don't think it's a solution to just have an anomaly work that many hours for a faction. 

At Bayview, there is time in between repairs. You can actually interact with people that hang around the ledge without having 4 people honk at you to "hurry up and fix their cars". 

 

The one incentive that can bring people in would be allowing the copy pasting again OR increasing the pay, maybe even adding a bonus pay for every car repaired. This wouldn't even have to go with the labour. Just do something similiar to the bulk ad extra pay you get at weazel. Every car gets a fixed extra income. This also adds to some extra serotonin because the mechanic will know that they "gain" something with every car they work on. 

My suggestion here would be to just reduce the /me and /do roleplay and make it "optional" to those that want to try it out. Give them the interaction they crave. When I first joined the faction, LSC had something that no other had. EVERY player would be there to talk with you. A year ago, there was hardly a time when nobody was around, because we could rely on macros and copy paste to just... side-eye the typing and focus on that which makes the server fun and the faction enjoyable. 

 

Now to the topic at hand with mechanic roleplay in on its own:

I like the changes suggested. Adding a minigame could just be a band-aid solution. If you do the same minigame over and over again it will become stale. However, I'd take anything that makes the work a bit more interesting. 

Adding a community behind it would be great as well. It's funny since we've tried doing that and we have created connections with people, but as said above, some of them liked to just hang out at LSC in the end without working because of the stress involved in it. 

 

[Bala]

Oh and also, the phone should have a mechanic app which tells you the amount Bayview and LSC has on duty, so you don't have to travel to the other for no fuckin' reason and you can get a mechanic through the phone as well, like DCC.

[Quietthecutie]

13 hours ago, Nunya said:

Frankly, one shouldn't presume a language barrier. Role Play is what you make of it as they say and isn't boring to everyone just because you say so. You worked at LSC for a short time which then you would have to join said Roadside division should you have chosen to do so to focus primarily on roadside repairs where there was an option to go out on roadside looking for repairs etc or taking the mechanic requests providing there were enough mechanics still in the shop allowing those to partake in all sorts of RP which can ever so literally lead to all types of "organic" interactions and socializing along the way. If you choose to just sit in the shop and do repetitive monotonous RP, join HR, or PR that was your choice to do so. Whereas, Bayview all that become part of that faction are trained for roadside mechanic requests and can do them. Otherwise, the faction members also have the option of being involved in every division should they choose to apply to do so. The two factions are not at all ran the same from the top down. I've had the opportunity to be part of both factions and there are considerable differences in the two in very many ways beyond the ignorance that the only organic RP can be had from doing roadside interactions.

Not everyone chooses mechanic RP to sit with a speaker and hang out with their pals in or outside a shop motivated solely for easy $$$. There have been a few posts about what people think about the mechanics or lack thereof, when most people choose it just for a paycheck starting out. Some like myself enjoyed role playing fixing cars and occasionally being a mildly menacing mechanic along with some customers as well as fellow mechanics and also enjoyed providing something that was beneficial to the server as a whole like ever so literally being a member of the community that would answer all kinds of questions far beyond any mechanic duties. There have been many people that my thinking outside the box saved them from the side of chiliad, not just their cars. Some actually spend some thought on their particular character arc's beyond having a chill time with the homies. I could have just as soon had my own welcome to the city office which I ever so literally joked ICly with Lewis about. I personally enjoyed interacting with new members of the community answering all of their questions about how to navigate gov website and where to find things and do stuff often not including their interest in becoming mechanics in between repairs, without having to join a faction doing some RP job sitting in a box doing "paperwork", which I already had plenty of experience with and very little actual RP thus chose not to do that anymore.

If you personally need examples, I was a customer once with Liam and he RPly found a slice of pizza under the hood my ass picked it up and took a bite and he was looking up a repair in a manual while I RPly did the repair. It was enjoyable RP for us that doesn't mean it will be enjoyable for everyone. It's all what you make of it if you aren't motivated by money and genuinely want to role play. I've also menacingly dropped wrenches in peoples engines and oops left them there.  For someone that chose to be a mechanic for a relatively short period of time, likely for an easy paycheck in their minds, I would presume they never really wanted to do mechanic RP in the first place and simply looked at it as an easy payday for the short term goals whereas I solely created a character who I ever so literally developed the arc to be a mechanic and had no desire to join other factions on that character despite attempts by others for me to join other legal factions.
 

What you personally consider fun or enjoyable may be something completely different than what is enjoyable to the next person. I completely disagree that there is no opportunity for any organic varied RP, especially at Bayview where I was a faction member for 17 months. Nor was there no opportunity for organic RP at MPT when it was a thing and didn't even have access to towing. I pushed many cars across the city to MPT to repair them for people when no one was taking mechanic requests. Just because that wouldn't be funny or enjoyable to you, it was to those that witnessed such shenanigans like that of watching someone push the commander of SD's Kamacho down a street for a repair and end up with a whole crowd RPing together along the way. There will never be any two "point of views" that are exactly the same. Mechanic RP simply was not boring at all to me. I had tons of enjoyable interactions both mechanic RP wise and hundreds of various interactions because of choosing that RP.

Me stating that very few care that you enjoy doing that RP and even less notice that you enjoy doing it is because they don't. In the event someone does notice you thoroughly enjoy that RP, well that still doesn't matter when you are merely a small fish in the big pond and not trying to be a contestant in some popularity contest. 

When I quit mechanic RP it certainly wasn't because I was bored with the RP. I had many reasons both IC and OOC for doing so. In saying that, None of which were because I was bored with mechanic RP. I've had many friends come and go for similar reasons.  My personal opinion is that saying it being a beginner job is it's only saving grace is only true because the faction leaders and management of those factions choose to not recognize which individuals aren't looking at those jobs like stepping stones to their other goals whether it be criminal in nature RP or simply to gain experience in order to join other legal factions that require a bit more experience in the server. 

Being uncertain that you were around at a time when we had a packed Pier every single day all hours the place was busy. When they "killed the pier" so to speak, the mechanic shops ever so literally became the new social hubs, way back then, aside from the people that found other more enjoyable places to go fishing or hang out and chill with their friends and acquaintances. Every change that has been made many of us have adjusted in some fashion experienced the growing pains such as the current situation with LSC and with mechanics in general many of us have seen before and will likely see again.
 

and

I fully agree with this. However, I don't really agree they need a pay increase near as much as you need a leader and people that genuinely enjoy that sort of RP, unmotivated by personal gain and are looking to do that long term in the community, to take on that responsibility.

@Bala Always has pretty good insight on a great deal of topics and his suggestions he has given would certainly help for those that find the RP boring as is. However, to me personally when people suggest that money talks, what I envision is, would be a job attracting more people that do not even enjoy mechanic RP at all just for that paycheck. If that's the case hell they can make close to 20k an hour driving a garbage truck if they become efficient at it.

At the end of the day, if you choose someone to lead a faction that doesn't really thoroughly enjoy that sort of RP to begin with, without the need for all sorts of additional bells and whistles that would prefer to be focusing their characters and time elsewhere, we will just end up repeating what has already been done many times before, just different actors same roles.  

 

Just gonna clarify that i thought it was a language barrier problem because what you said made 0 sense. thus, i thought you misunderstood me.

"and isn't boring to everyone just because you say so."

 

it isnt just me saying it though....  the mechanic shops struggle to hold onto people for primarily this reason. you found a bit of pizza in your car? congratulations, that sounds like fun rp. my question would be how often that happens compared someone in a mask driving in and just yelling repair at you before shoving his license in your face.  you cant cherry pick this kind of stuff, from an objective point of view the "primary loop" of the mechanic job is boring. you cannot sit there and tell me in your heart that you find macroing/typing out the exact same thing every time, fun. yes, other jobs have parts of them where they do this too, LEOs giving tickets for example. but LEOs get to patrol and chase people down, get into gunfights, standoffs, process prisoners, and more besides. I wouldn't even say roadside counts anymore either, because unless its a preplanned event the only time ive seen roadside actually out and about in the city is during peak time on a saturday night if even then. because you need 2 mechanics active in shop before a third can be cleared to do roadside, and its a rare day indeed when I see 3 mechanics working in LSC these days.

 

When they "killed the pier" so to speak, the mechanic shops ever so literally became the new social hubs.

which between the speed limits imposed at the pier coupled together with the new "stop do not enter" signage around LSC we appear to be trying to kill off as soundly as we can...also ECRP isn't a nation state. it hasn't been around long enough for you to accurately predict the future based on past events. so this weak ass "things will go back to the way things were if we just do nothing." mentality doesn't ring true.
 

[Toth]

I've been planning a tertiary mechanic location for a while, which purely worked mech requests on a fixed rate, leaving modifications and full body repairs (0 condotion) to the two physical locations to not kill traffic for them.
This would include a better reformation program for people with felonies etc. on their records hopefully, since I know a lot of people from shady background who're professional to the core as long as they get paid fairly and treated with the respect they deserve, when they behave and chill out.

Having read through this post then it might be better to help out LSC instead, since Bayview wasn't my cup of tea (Too "Nature Documentary" about standing around doing nothing) and quit after ten days though. I still managed to get about 100 hours under the vest during that time, since I've always loved being in the mechanical workshop, its vibe and the people working within the industry.
Especially back when checking the starter engine involved using a hammer and you could smoke over flammable liquids without a worry of getting yelled at from the boss for being careless. We lost a few along the way to combustion, but ah, you win some, you lose some.

It might involve moving LSC to a bit easier to access place than the odd backlot with ramps. I don't know about you, but I find it a nightmare to drive in there with my tires popped etc..

LSC and Bayview (why not merge the work pools/factions as well if possible?) would get a very sweet staff room, as I've got the community center between Club Arcadius and The Pawn shop already set up with pool and amphitheater around back, and a lot of opportunities for some proper RP inside the premises as well. Even got a sound studio if we should make be in the mood for some jingles and such.

So how about a temporary "Pier 2.0" until we can get that silly camera knocked down?
Or at least get it to 80 km/h as it's bad city planning to have that area be the only area (to my knowledge) where 50 km/h is the limit.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Toth
Got the wrong name of LSC management

[Tom Solar]

21 hours ago, Puzzling said:

one of the other big issues that I see a lot with the two mechanic shops is the treatment of employees by the ECRP community. All anyone ever does is shit-talk them to tell them to work fast. Those kinds of people ruin the RP for everyone "Oh im just frustrated IC". No, you aren't, relax it's a game

This is so true, in many cases seeing the abuse mechanics in both companies need to endure and swallow, as a taxidriver you can deny someone service drive away and blacklist them but at the mechanic shops even if they blacklist them, they are still stuck with them in or around the building. I feel like with alot of people, their ooc toxicity leaks into their roleplay.

19 hours ago, Kellie said:

/me notices a punctured radiator
/me removes the radiator
/me refills the coolant
/me fixes the puncture with a flux dipped rod
/me puts the radiator back in 

omg kellie, you refill the radiator BEFORE you fix the puncture?!?!? thats nrp right there  for real though, i feel like most of them are still copy pasting stuff, most of the time when I come in with the mechanics I will tell them what is wrong with the car but they always default back to the radiator/sparkplug rp, I think macros should be alowed, you could maybe even have a couple depending on the situation and when more specific rp presents itself you are still able to /me whatever you like.

I dont think a "repair kit" is a good idea, people will jsut drive around with one of those in the trunk and keep repairing their car back to 350hp everytime they crash without ever going to a mechanic shop, i do agree with an automatic repair if no mechanics are on duty.

Honestly I dont see what the problem is, I'm seeing just as many people on duty at lsc as at bayview, maybe spiking/dropping during some timezones but most of the time theres like 1 or 2 mechs in either of the shops. The problem is with all the legal companies, even though the server doesnt really have a drop in population like last year around the same period, all the legal factions are having trouble hiring, I speak for DCC and I'm sure the others have the same issue, this is why most factions are lowering or forgoing minimum hour requirements all together (which is pretty lazy imo). I said it before but its just weird that on a server with 300+ ppl, maybe 20 of them are playing a whitelist job.

There is a reason why people shoose not to rp them, maybe there is a salary issue, maybe we are getting payed too little compared to freelance jobs. I know people exaggerate when they say garbage makes 14-20k/hour but realistically why would anyone go work for a legal faction for half? I know true roleplayers don't care about the money and thats true but thats not a reason for a CEO from a citywide company responsible for 60-70 people to make WAY less than someone who places cones. Maybe raising the income somehow will indeed attract ppl who are just in it for the money but it will create respect for the position and give companies the oppertunity to be selective in their hiring process.

I've been opposed to salary on comission but maybe there should be a system where people get payed an hourly wage to back up lower pop timezones/ppl playing managerial roles + a comission based "small" bonus per job done.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Tom Solar
me being ignorant