Are Crims even wanted in Eclipse?

[Dirty Mike]

I've been in the server for a couple years and have over 300xp, being someone who wanted to improve the rp on the crim side and raise the bar, but it honestly feels like  eclipse is divide between being a place where people come to escape reality and be in safe space  and a place people  come to have fun. I joined a RP server because I wanted to do  crim things/scenarios that I wouldn't normally do in real life. but for me to have a rp situation where I stand a chance of surviving with police I have to invest about 6-8 hours of grinding (cooking drugs, gathering materials, and selling drugs) to get Body armor and a heavy. But police get unlimited everything, and then if I get caught I spend 4 more hours in jail. So thats about a 10 hour investment for what could be 25 min of Crim RP with my heavy. It would be safe to argue its alot harder to get your illegal faction to go official then it is to just simply join pd/sd(which has alot more benefits: free weapons, body armor, kamachos and shinobis, but we get none of the benefits or support,  Ive made suggestions to improve things from a crim side and just met with responses like "if thats what you think is fun your in the wrong server" and "this is a realistic RP server" This attitude really makes it feels like Crims are not wanted here on an ooc level

[equ1nox_]

I am heavily invested in both sides of the server, being a higher ranking deputy and command of a criminal faction so I feel that knowing both sides allows me to give a better answer here. I agree with some aspects of your post, but heavily disagree with others.

Quote

but for me to have a rp situation where I stand a chance of surviving with police I have to invest about 6-8 hours of grinding (cooking drugs, gathering materials, and selling drugs) to get Body armor and a heavy. But police get unlimited everything,

Firstly, "clapping cops" isnt the only only way to escape cops or to win, there are other better and smarter ways to get out of a situation. You dont need body armor and heavies to "win" against LEO. Obviously LEO need to be stronger than the criminals on this server because if they arent, the server is gonna end up overrun by criminals, which does not really provide a fun experience for rival gangs, civilians, and even LEO. If you feel like you need to grind to get body armor and heavies to go up against LEO, then you are very much mistaken, as you can easily outsmart them while being at a HUGE disadvantage. There are other ways than guns blazing, utilize your environment and come up with better Rp situations.

Quote

it would be safe to argue its alot harder to get your illegal faction to go official then it is to just simply join pd/sd(which has alot more benefits: free weapons, body armor, kamachos and shinobis, but we get none of the benefits or support, 

You cannot compare LEO with a criminal organization. Do you see the government IRL providing funding to cartels and other criminal organizations. If the only thing you want to do on the server is use heavy guns and run around shooting people,. then im afraid what people have told you before are correct, you are on the wrong server. I did not join PD/SD for the free weapons, body armor, etc. I joined to experience LEO and being a police officer in general. So this argument that all you want is access to these things with the least amount of effort is just sad. Also, I did not just join a criminal faction for the same thing. There are other criminal things you can do other than running around labs trying to get into fights, such as robbing banks, stores, chopping cars, etc.

Your argument that its a lot harder to get an illegal faction official then joining LEO is very much correct. On the one hand, you have an established PD/SD with government funding, vs a group of criminals trying make it big.

 

Quote

and then if I get caught I spend 4 more hours in jail.

Well I know that crims need to have repercussions for their action, I 100% agree that how DOC and jail in general is designed is very demotivating. You can spend hours and hours in prison for minor things. For example, I got over 3 hours of jail for evading, having a firearm with modifications. So yes, I agree that DOC feels like an OOC punishment more than an IC one, considering the lack of RP to do in DOC for all these hours, making it become an "afk and watch Neflix" sort of deal, which is just boring for everyone.

 

[Dirty Mike]

considering my xp in the server and I have never even shot a heavy outside of an appt let alone at another person... I would say its safe to say that i'm not here to "Clap Cops" and if you go check my youtube you can see me lose 30 police and air one with out firing one shot, but the time investment to get these items in my xp with other people as well makes them not want to even bring them out to use.  dont even get me started on black market carbine prices

 

1 hour ago, equ1nox_ said:

Do you see the government IRL providing funding to cartels and other criminal organizations.

 

 

as a matter a fact we do look at the Obama admin and operation fast and furious https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html see this is a common thing I always see people want to argue were here for "realism" or its not realistic, and I can point to specific examples on these things happening in RL, but regardless if they are realistic or not are we trying to make an environment as close to real life as we possible? or are we trying to make an environment were people can Rp with what we joined the server to RP as

[Jett_J]

11 hours ago, Dirty Mike said:

considering my xp in the server and I have never even shot a heavy outside of an appt let alone at another person... I would say its safe to say that i'm not here to "Clap Cops" and if you go check my youtube you can see me lose 30 police and air one with out firing one shot, but the time investment to get these items in my xp with other people as well makes them not want to even bring them out to use.  dont even get me started on black market carbine prices

 

 

as a matter a fact we do look at the Obama admin and operation fast and furious https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html see this is a common thing I always see people want to argue were here for "realism" or its not realistic, and I can point to specific examples on these things happening in RL, but regardless if they are realistic or not are we trying to make an environment as close to real life as we possible? or are we trying to make an environment were people can Rp with what we joined the server to RP as

Criminal factions aren't just given guns because we aren't a cops vs robbers RP server. Guns shouldn't be the center of criminal RP.

Giving free guns to gangs will just promote more shootout RP which usually isn't good quality RP.

Considering the developers have been working on a major drug update for at least 7 months, I woudn't say Crim RP isn't wanted, but it also isn't all we want.

[Destuin]

I agree with the idea of this post, the current higher up staff that are making the decisions do not want crims to have any chance really. Over time we have only seen less criminals and criminals getting weaker. This is exactly the direction management want to take tho. They are happy with the idea that crims can't win and I doubt this will change for the foreseeable future. Every aspect of RP that is brought up that cops should have to do or chance, cops swiftly shut this down. You can't discuss it anywhere, or with anyone without it being immediately shut down. This is a big part of why we are here. Even in terms of oocly, criminals get DM 2 and are banned. Cops get DM 2 and are promoted to, sever staff. 

[Jorge Compass]

Although I agree that there is a lack of script support for criminals, I also believe that a lot of criminals take IC situations OOC. A lot of people, for example, get mad on an OOC level from Gang unit/Detectives simply doing their IC job.

 

Although I understand the frustration of Gang unit members pulling people over, searching you, finding a gun and arresting you. It is vital that you understand that this is their IC job. There are many IC methods people can use to avoid such suppression. Personally I've been maining crim for over a year and a half and just about have 20 arrests which have resulted me going to DOC. For the amount of crime that has been done, I believe that this is a very minor amount of arrests. These numbers were juristically reduced by simply using IC methods to prevent being arrested so often.

[Phantas]

You can tell if you are wanted at the police desk in mission row or up in paleto at the sheriff's department! 

[Bala]

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

[AtlasOLimbo]

3 hours ago, Bala said:

...

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

There's lots of great stuff here as always, Bala. I wish everyone else, including myself could speak with the same tact and impartiality as you. I'll be honest. I'm guilty as a criminal of some of the things mention here. I hate going to DOC. Not just on an IC level where I may evade certain cases, and what have you. But on an OOC level as well. I feel that criminals, while occasionally having a shining star roleplayer like Lola. On average, have a much lower quality of roleplay. Ergo, DOC is an even lower average from that. People say that DOC can survive without script support to a high quality but I beg to differ.

[Miky]

4 hours ago, Bala said:

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

God bless you.

[Hanro]

4 hours ago, Bala said:

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

There it is, a genuinely amazing post that needs to be heeded by senior staff. Please take this and use it to further better the server.

[LucasJHughes]

7 hours ago, Bala said:

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

+1 Summed it up perfectly, god bless you.

[Bala]

Something I've tried telling people is that there are a lot of people in PD and SD that want these changes for criminals to happen as well. Not just so that the server will thrive and the interactions with criminals will get better but in the case that they themselves want to play on a criminal alt. I include myself in that, I haven't done any non-cop RP for about a year and a half because unless you're in a group, it does seem nigh on impossible. PD / SD side of things could do with some love but to be honest, we'll get as much out of a criminal update as the crims do at this point.

We have to catch criminals and stop crime, that's our role on the server and I understand that in doing so, we're putting you in some negative situations, both IC and OOC. Situations that might not be fun or entertaining so it's easy to think of us as the enemy out of character. But, I think sometimes it's easy to get lost in the sauce and not understand the other side.

I'm not like some big criminal sympathiser or the second coming of jesus christ or anything, just three years in, I want the dopest fucking server. You realise that our server popped off when COVID hit, had 500-600 people at peak and then the following year things got actually pretty fucking bleak at times. Considering the amount of people that have stuck with the server throughout that time though when they could have gone elsewhere, tells you how fucking loyal our player-base is. 

If you look at it from that point of view, it only needs some basic updates for this thing to catch fire again. If you look at it from a business decision, if people are happy playing Eclipse, they'll throw money at it. So, whether it's making a good server to make a good server or even just wanting to make money, appeasing the community makes so much sense.

I'd like it if my opinions and suggestions were taken a little more seriously, given how many ordinary people tend to fuck with them but it is what it is. I had my shot at advancing in the staff team and it wasn't a good fit for me but when all this mod stuff finally comes live, you'll see what we've been working on. That's an area that we're only now just getting into but the opportunities are endless for what we can do.

I firmly believe that even with minor improvements, we can start getting 350.. 400.. 450 people again without breaking a sweat. You just have to play it right.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Bala

[Bala]

Just an update, @NBDY reached out this morning and we had a good chat about a few things, so hopefully we should see some progress!

[Asuna.]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:53 AM, Bala said:

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

I'm gonna keep it a buck, this is probably the most well thought out answer I have ever seen on an ECRP forum thread. The balance currently swings in the favour of the legal but it is not too far gone to change the motion. I am a firm believer that public robberies with correct intent and escalation should be the first change added. It happens all the time realistically, this links back to the point of being the roughest and toughest. Risking jailtime to get one over on an opposing gang by having the bragging rights of robbing them no matter the location(disregarding NCZs ofcourse.) Even then I believe we should stray away from NCZs as it just limits criminal RP. Well constructed Riots at Mission Row, Breaking a gang leader out of DOC with AltRP perms. Swarming areas showing a heavy gang presence increasing the intimidation factor of Crim RP. These are a few details that are simply overlooked and are not possible with the current structure of NCZs. 

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Asuna. said:

I'm gonna keep it a buck, this is probably the most well thought out answer I have ever seen on an ECRP forum thread. The balance currently swings in the favour of the legal but it is not too far gone to change the motion. I am a firm believer that public robberies with correct intent and escalation should be the first change added. It happens all the time realistically, this links back to the point of being the roughest and toughest. Risking jailtime to get one over on an opposing gang by having the bragging rights of robbing them no matter the location(disregarding NCZs ofcourse.) Even then I believe we should stray away from NCZs as it just limits criminal RP. Well constructed Riots at Mission Row, Breaking a gang leader out of DOC with AltRP perms. Swarming areas showing a heavy gang presence increasing the intimidation factor of Crim RP. These are a few details that are simply overlooked and are not possible with the current structure of NCZs. 

We need to add a lot more to the criminal side of things, but I just hope these changes are there to promote more interaction and tension between criminal groups, more activities for criminals to do and the long awaited drug update.

The focus should be on having more to do, but increasing the quality of the RP, lets avoid repeating history. I don't think it's in the interest of the server to go back to the time where you couldn't even refuel without getting pulled up on by a 6 man convoy for a radio and gps.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Cyrus Raven

[Dirty Mike]

@Bala Awesome! that's what I was hoping with this post was to get the ball rolling or at least get some feedback of whats expected or wanted from the crim side. I appreciate everything you have said and done from the community 

[Straza]

I think one of the bigger issues surrounding crims right now is lack of representation in the higher staff. Before you quote reply this, YES there are staff who play crims and some of them are even admins/senior admins. But they are vastly outweighed by how many are legals and more often than not will roleplay as cartel members, not actually in gangs (yes there are exceptions to this). If it were up to me I'd say illegal faction leaders need more of a say when it comes to how crim rp is managed within the server. Take the recent plane crash incident for example right, it ended in a shootout and a report in which "we simply can not host anymore of these unique RP scenarios  (the Smuggler Plane Crash event and the Money Transport event from several weeks ago) due to the actions displayed by the involved players, as we do not believe that we can expect any other outcome for these sort of events." but I would have to ask 1: what did they expect to happen and 2: what did they really WANT to happen? Also, lack of new content and updates for said crim gameplay, right now the crim experience is "yo xyz is up north get strapped" or locking up in your lab to cook for hours and hours or spending 3 hours tabbed out in DOC. It is a stale repetitive cycle that coupled with the "its nrp to be crim" mindset some people take makes playing as crim stale in the past year.
inb4 "well its up to you to make interesting roleplay" yes, it is and I do a lot to make good experiences with those i RP with. However I'm talking about the state of criminals as a whole, lack of higher staff representation, lack of new content, forum wars and an overpowered police force sending 2 helis and a jugular after a speeding shinobi are in my opinion factors into why criminals are being stamped out
PS: @Bala spitting facts and his suggestions would actually contribute a lot to a positive crim experience

Edited April 14, 2022 by Straza

[Bala]

This thread was and will continue to be answered in the upcoming criminal updates.

We won.

[AnakinB]

18 hours ago, Bala said:

This thread was and will continue to be answered in the upcoming criminal updates.

We won.

You are a W mans Wala

[Skengprostie]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:53 AM, Bala said:

I think the short answer to your question is yes, they are wanted.
That being said, I can actually completely understand why you would question whether they are.

To be real, ECRP doesn't do criminal very well anymore and hasn't for the past two years.
I've spent hours and hours making suggestions and trying to offer advice to these man. Responded to threads like this. Pushed and pushed people making the decisions to make changes but nothing comes of it.

I love the server but we're really poor at this criminal thing and for those that are interested, I'll explain why I think so.

Staff Team

• People are passionate about what they know and are involved in. Almost all of our head admins are cop role-players. Almost all of our Senior Admins are legal role-players. Almost all of our Administrators are legal role-players. A lot of our Senior Moderators are legal role-players. A lot all of our Moderators are legal role-players.
• It's possible for people to have ideas and an interest in areas outside what they are involved in or enjoy but whether it's a case of time consuming or personal feelings towards the other side or whatever, it's easy for criminal stuff to get dismissed.
• Criminal Roleplayers are in my view, woefully represented. You're not going to push things that don't benefit you personally, that's natural but if there's not enough people to do it for crims, then you don't get stuff pushed.

Rules

• The way we approach violence in the server really doesn't help. There was a point in time last year where ECRP was legitimately becoming like The Sims. People that did make moves were catching warnings left, right and centre. 
  Some people call ECRP a Cops and Robbers server. It's not, it was a Cops and Civilians server.
  It has improved but it's still way off.
• Criminals have to have the freedom to do criminal shit. Criminal shit in a GTA RP server means fighting, robbing and building a reputation for being the baddest. Everyone wants to be the hardest, the deepest, the roughest, the toughest. 
• That doesn't mean it has to be a DM fest but you got to address the balance. 
  Think of it like a pan of water on a stove. You don't want it to boil and spill out onto the stove but you want that shit to be simmering.
• Reality is, shit popping off brings everyone into the mix and gets people active again.

Script

• Burger Shot turned out to promote some actually good RP for civilians, Vending Machines are a nice touch but criminals NEED their content update so fucking badly.
• I don't even consider the criminal update to be just for criminals. Do you know how many cops are sick to death of the same bank robberies over and over? It feels like so many long time players are just biding their time waiting for this update to drop.
• It's a misconception too that criminals need a lot of shit adding, they don't. 
• Get criminals out of apartment labs and cooking in the world again, in chop shops they set up and run themselves. BAM OVERNIGHT SENSATION.
• Get criminals setting up their own chop shop that they run themselves. BAM ANOTHER ONE.
• Add more locations to rob, even with the same script. WE'RE ON A ROLL.

Prison

• It's a miserable experience for crims and it's selling a fantastic faction like DOC short by it being miserable for them too.
• A poker table that no one uses because it's obsolete, digging for ore in the middle of a concrete prison yard, alt tabbing to watch netflix or beating the shit out of someone for no reason to pass the time is not a good experience.
• Add the burger shot cooking to the prison.
  Allow crims inside DOC to play poker for a viable currency.
  Look at the many prison suggestion threads for other items.
• If the prison was better, criminals would be less OOCly hostile towards cops for taking them there. 
• "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime' is a BS attitude to have as well. Going to prison for a criminal is like being stuck at the impound all day for a cop. Miserable and counter productive. An RP server is supposed to provoke you into roleplay situations, which you then manifest, not encourage you to ALT-TAB. 

Standard of Criminals

• A symptom of the above issues is some of the poor quality factions that we have rolling around today. I'm not going to be toxic and name names or dig people out but with each passing wave of factions, the quality seems to drop and becomes about trying to exploit the meta and all about trying to fuck over/beef the cop factions because they are the only real challenge or they take getting arrested so personal.
   
• The way criminals carry themselves at times is dead. You look at someone like Lola, who puts time and effort into her character and almost every action her character takes, makes fucking sense. None of this asking for badge numbers even though you don't want to make a complaint or whipping your phones out to record people for no reason. Maybe chatting shit based on how someone's voice doesn't match the character or jumping on cruisers or any of that dumb shit that makes no damn sense. I don't want to big people up too much but RPers like Lola fucking get what its supposed to be.
   
• Some crims don't help themselves or their factions with some of the bias in their threads or suggestions. End of the day, I've been almost exclusively a cop on ECRP for three years but I put as much time/effort into improving shit for crims as anyone. Better criminals means a more enjoyable server for me to play on. I'm really not the only cop that feels that way either, i think a lot of us want/need criminals to be better supported and be more interesting to interact with as a result.

There is a real, genuine disconnect between the different departments in the community. Staff are predominately legal role-players and think criminals should behave in a way that criminals either have little interest in or they are incapable of doing so in a meaningful way. Criminals get frustrated and pissed off because they don't feel they are taken seriously, so they fuck around or make "state of.." threads. Ultimately, we just go around in circles until the next thread.

That being said, we live in hope x

Have my 1st born child

[Bala]

14 hours ago, Skengprostie said:

Have my 1st born child

Say less

[John Nut]

This is just an opinion about the state right now.   Chop Shops made it worse for crims and 100% worse for civs.  Why it made it worse?

If you put the price to just start a chop shop at around 250k.  What regular civillian is gonna spend that price and put it up. Its to much of a risc because civillians dont run around in 10-20+ gangs who can clap you down and grab it no problem. Even tho it takes a long time to dismantle, all u need to do is kill the people at the chop and u have almost all the time in the world to take it down before they "legally" can come back without being banned, and cops is a threat too.  Secondly its also riscy for gangs to keep it up. Which makes it stay open 1-2 days a week ONLY FOR the specific gang members, because of inactivity, and when people are on we have other stuff to do and etc.

As when u open a chop shop u gotta have 100% focus on it to protect it, chop, transport the parts and etc etc etc.     
Do not get me wrong, i think the update is SUPER cool i fukin love it! But it doesnt work...  Im lucky im part of a gang and get the chance to chop once a week or maybe twice. What about everyone else???  You need to balance this somehow, if not make it able to chop shop like before, but also like now.  So people with the money and resourses and numbers to open up a chop shop themselfs. They get 100% the price like they do now. But also Keep the old chop shop, drop the car at chop wait 5 minutes. So regular people can make a tiny bit of money and can steal cars.

As of now maybe 5% of the server has use of stealing cars. The rest can steal it but cant do nothing more than a joy ride.   ATM is a good addition but it sucks, its to slow and also fucking booring. This is a game, not real life. Keep the fun. We dont come home after work wanting to work some more xD we wanna play and have fun. (yes many people like comming here actually working) But there are people who want to come here after a hard day of work. Enjoying his time doing crim with his friends.   So i believe the civ and cop side is really cool I like the updates. But for crims... god daymn ur drying their money, drying their work and etc.  I dont know what updates planned for crims. Lots of cool stuff, but if its all like the chop shop. Crim work has turned out as High risc low reward.       Pick a car, hotwire a car, bring the car (cops drive past u with stolen car= fucked) Then bring it to the secret location, then pick it apart and make the whole city hear u doing it. Then go sell it.    Lockpick=Risc, Hotwire=Risc Drive it to chop location is 250k risc and police risc. Then chop it =risc then go sell it =risc, then make it to bank with ur 30k or less.   High risc low reward. Fix this plz, understand.  Mix of rant and facts this long message. But for the past 3 weeks iv had fuckall to do unless all gang members are online. 

 

Then we have cops who overpower the crims.  If cops try to arrest an unarmed civillian and he starts running. WHY the FUK do you taze him? he is no harm to anyone all he is doing is running away. If a civillian is trying to fist fight a cop, start fighting him back once in a while for gods sake dont just taze everyone first second anything goes down. I dont care if its REALISTIC its GAME RUINING. As i saw someone mention above. Why are there 2 helicopters and etc chasing a shennobi or drag.  There should be OOC rules about stuff like this, abusing resources to stomp crims.   Stop tazing everyone just because u want to be done with people. If ur a cop u gotta deal with the process of taking people to jail or actually failing to arrest someone, its part of the game. Just like we gotta spend 3-5 hours in jail for shooting someone. Part of the game, ur telling us to deal with it, why shouldnt you.     Stop abusing resources and start playing fair. If there is a drag, bring a drag not 2 helicopters. Helicopters shouldnt be used in a chase unless he did some highly illegal activity, not just speeding away from a trafic stop. It ruins the experience. Why do u think 80% of the server is on Bf400 and etc, because cops abuse their resources. I also read that they just now got an update that made their cars loose fuel?? Like excuse me
??? 

Edited May 5, 2022 by John Nut

[Jorge Compass]

In terms of what you said above, I do not see how the update have made chops worse. The current system has drastically increased player interactions and also is not limited to official gangs. Although there would be an increased risk, you could run a chop shop on your own.  When the update first was released, I thought 200k was also too much just for the equipment to run a chop. However, after chopping 10 cars or so (which is relatively easy considering there are now randomly spawned vehicles) you can make your money back. When you say "cops is a threat too" it has always been a risk for stealing cars, and if anything I believe the cop threat has been reduced as they no longer know exact locations of chops.

[John Nut]

@Jorge Compass

I havent met a single civillian who has been able to chop a single car since this update came out.  We chopped 10 cars and got 13k cut out of it. 

You also need to spend everything u have to keep the chop running. U cant do it alone or with a friend, Its suicide both from cops looking to get you and gang members looking to frag and get sum free equipment.   I have problems understanding why ur think its been reduced risc. When it takes longer most scenarious to lockpick, then just as long ov if not longer to hotwire (remember this is open streets cops patrole everywhere) then u gotta drive it to the chop where people can follow you, cops get notified just driving past u that its stolen. Its not reduced its fkin highly boosted risc.  Dont forget the 20k hotwire, 9k tools and etc. Its not reduced. 

Brings more interaction between the gang members who are lucky enough to have the resources and numbers to keep it running. Not civillians as no gangs iv seen or heard about take it vehicles from civs.  Cars spawn yes, but where are we gonna bring those cars is my question. U wanna take all my vehicles everyday or the 150 other civs who wants to steal cars and sell em but cant? its not working and its pretty obviouse too. 

Basically they removed chop shopping completely for 97% of regular civillians who maybe dont have any friends or friends of friends in gangs and etc.   (dont take my precentage for facts its all opinions and examples) 

Edited May 5, 2022 by John Nut