Cyrus Raven

Imagine some RPs searching your pockets, this is an action that can't be given consent through voice, otherwise you would be breaking a server rule. It's not like saying ''I would allow you to search me'' in VOIP is very realistic, which is why people use /me and /do even if they are mainly using voice to communicate IC'ly, because at the end of the day /me and /do is an OOC action that informs and determines IC roleplay.

+1 Should be able to purchase ammo for my weapon as a civilian who holds a legal firearms license.

+1

I wasn't aware another thread had been made, I will take a look.

Took a look at the reports and just thought I should mention that reports against support members most likely take longer than other players as they are reviewed by different people to ensure no bias takes place. If you want to prove bias it would be best to look at outcomes and not report times. Having said this, thanks for the examples and let's try to focus on the suggestion at hand instead of making it about PD vs Crims

DISCLAIMER: This post is meant as a way for people to give their thoughts on the current rules regarding FearRP/DM and to help staff with suggestions on how to improve them. This is NOT meant as an attack on the staff or whoever wrote the rules, as I am sure most people realise that staff tries their best to make this community and it's rules as fair as possible. Having said this we should talk about these issues openly and attempt to reach a solution, this thread is not meant as place to flame staff and I will request this thread be deleted if this happens. As it currently stands the following Deathmatch rules are being enforced: Deathmatch (DM) Deathmatching is the act of attacking a player or their property without a proper roleplay reason. Examples of valid reasons to attack another player: • If they attempt to arrest or hurt you, an ally, or damage your property. • If they report you to the police for a serious crime. • If they are not in compliance with demands, attempt to escape, or call other players for help in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules. As it stands there seems to be a loophole that can be abused by people being initiated by another party, this (in my view) has been partially recognised by staff members already. ''We're going to sit down and review rules here within the next few days to see if we can re-word things and make it easier for any player to stop a moving car, or get a player out of a car. There are ways to deliver more intimidating demands, passengers can aim a gun at a person and try to make them stop, trying to slow the car down, etc. However, right now, you are not under Fear RP if you're in a car which engine is turned on, but it may change within the next few days. We'll make a community announce as always if so, for awareness.'' - Eclipse Staff Member If a group of players surround a car, but that car has it's engine on then they are not under fearRP. Not only can the car being surrounded simply drive off, but the initiating party has no ability to forcibly stop the vehicle after demands have been made as it is constituted as DM. This is obviously prone to abuse. A player who is not under FearRP essentially is immune from being forcibly stopped by anyone making demands, this section of the rules should be changed. I think it is important to change the rules whilst discouraging poor initiation like ''Stop or die'' and other variations of quick sentences meant to be used as an excuse to shoot. FearRP rules should remain, but they should mainly be guidelines so people know when they should surrender or when they can risk escape and not as a shield for any sort of aggression. In essence, if I am not under fearRP because my car engine is on then I should be able escape without being punished by server rules. However, if the party that is trying to initiate on me sees me driving off and blatantly ignoring their demands then they should be able to shoot out my tires or engine without having to worry about breaking server rules. A very simple and bare bones way to fix this abuse is to remove the ''in a situation where they are required to display fear under fear roleplay rules.'' portion of the rule, although I am sure Eclipse Staff are looking for a better way to deal with it.

This entire thread is pretty cringe But more anims are good +1

I see the turf system as a way to give gangs something more to do. Yes, they could technically all draw up a map and share it between themselves, having to redraw it every single time something changes, but that's a pain in the ass. Not only that, but having a system like this would maybe encourage more gang on gang violence if done correctly. I am not saying to take the previous system and implement it again or even to take everything I have written and use it. This is simply meant as a script suggestion that other Hardcore RP servers in SAMP have had in the past and that have worked well (in my opinion). Also, in regards to the meta thing. It goes back to the whole ''they can RP it'' thing. I would probably not consider that meta. There is a script that would show X turf belonging to Y gang, the way this would translate to the RP world would be someone walking past a street and seeing some sort of graffiti or gang members hanging around. The difference here is that in one system you have the script which makes things easier and more convenient and the other you have to RP it, which isn't something that always reaches everyone. I could suggest we get rid of the F4 menu all together because it is ''Non-RP'' or ''Meta'', players should just remember and write down on a piece of paper who they hired for their business/faction or recruited for their gang. Same goes for the salary system. This shouldn't be a thing because players should submit weekly checks themselves, etc... However, the reason all these scripts exist is because it is more convenient. I would look at the turf system the same way. Now this isn't to say that everything should be turned into a script, but It's just to show you that there should be a broader conversation about the actual pros and cons of this system and not just dismiss it because ''they can just do it in RP''

Can I try and press you for an explanation on your -1 ? It seems to me that saying ''they can do this in RP'' doesn't really get us anywhere. I could argue that most things in game could be done through RP, but certain factions, jobs, gang functions, etc... are done through the script because it is convenient and more entertaining, so my question is why are gang turfs something you don't think deserve a script function ?

This is a valid question. I'm not quite sure how it would be done. Off the top of my head, We could have key areas that are unowned that would represent a turf. So let's say Balas own Jefferson, the surrounding area would technically be their ''turf'', but the spot in which other gangs capture the turf and they have to defend would be somewhere public so there isn't constant gunfights going on at people's homes. Having said this, I also think that a part of living in a turf would be the inevitable roleplay with gangs. In more fancy areas like Rockford hills, there wouldn't be any turfs at all for realism sake. So we would be looking mainly at run-down parts of Los Santos. These are just a few quick thoughts on the subject.

Neutral Don't see anything wrong with having speeding cameras, they issue tickets based on speed if they see you going over the speed limit by a big margin then they should fine you/warrant you appropriately. That's why if you go 81 past a speed camera you will only get a 500$ ticket vs if you go past a speed camera at 200 you will get a warrant. It is proportional. Having said this, the fact that if you drive a stolen vehicle, a friend's vehicle or your own vehicle (while wearing a mask) will still give you a speeding ticket seems like metagaming and power gaming to me. There is no way a speeding camera would know who is driving a stolen car while wearing a mask.

I mean if the F4 menu isn't an advantage then what is the issue with letting others have it ? Or getting rid of it altogether? Fact is the script is the only way someone can get weapons from the source, I understand your point that gangs can still trade with other gangs, but the disadvantage is still there. Now, if it were the case that gang X or gang Y had control of the gun market because they control a certain turf or have RP'ly set up a gun manufacturing network then that would be a lot more plausible. I don't think the way to do it is magically give access to these things to certain gangs, ya feel.

Well, in this case, I wouldn't want to remove the script at all, but make it something any group or individual can use or allow people to literally do /creategang, pay X amount of money to form it and then allow them to use the tools the official gangs are able to use. I have an issue with the disadvantage, not necessarily the script. Allowing all gangs access to these features would make those who are better equipped and generally better roleplayers stay at the top. While as of right now it seems than some groups thrive not only because of their numbers but also because they have an easier time recruiting and acquiring weapons that make them powerful. While other gangs are essentially forced to play on the exact same server but with none of these advantages. To modify your analogy it's as if SD was supposed to uphold the law, detain/arrest suspects and do everything else PD those but with half or none of the tools available to PD. (No cuffing ability, can't add charges, can't drag people, no backup system, etc...)

I agree with most of what you said. But my argument is that the power dynamics between gangs should be exclusively done RP'ly and not script-wise. In other words, yes gangs who have been through a lot and have dedicated a lot of time and money should be at the top, but this should be achieved through RP, having little to no perks or advantages from being in the F4 menu. I don't see why we can't have other gangs that have their own faction chat, treasury, etc.. Or why these things aren't just available to everyone. At the end of the day these are mechanics that say nothing about the quality of RP and serve as an advantage. I would love to see this shifting to advantages gotten via excellent roleplay and not just because X gang has access to a script that gives them an advantage. That's why I made a suggestion with regards to turfs a month or so ago.

I agree with you to an extent. I think it is great that gangs who have put in the effort get recognized, but I would personally prefer to see this in a non-script way. I just don't really like how if you have a large group of people (AKA Rooks, Wanted ''Insert any group created with a healthy number of people'') you are automatically disadvantaged by a script. It isn't the fact that Zetas or Triads have an RP control on the import market or something along those lines, it just a script that tells them ''hey you are superior and somehow this laptop will only work with you and no one else''. Giving recognition and praise where it is due is fine by me, brand them as the top gangs on the server or even keep them as ''official gangs'', but take the script limits away from other gangs who want to take a shot and being in the top.

Essentially, even if scamming is allowed, if you RP a contract or trading the money and keys for the vehicle almost immediately and someone doesn't follow through, we should be able to not only have an IC way to retrieve assets, but also an OOC way to punish the player and retrieve items. It wouldn't necessarily be a report for scamming, but one for Powergaming and ignoring RP.

+1/-1 I think it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the RP of gangs when defending PD and their RP reasons for essentially being superior. Both have their own merits and both are adapting to situations in-character. Having said this, I do not like that the only two official gangs on the server are allied. However, my reason for disliking it isn't because of the RP, but because I think there shouldn't be such a big barrier to entry to becoming an official gang, especially considering the advantage official gangs have. If a group of players wants to create a gang, have a faction chat and be able to use the same perks official gangs have right now, then they should be able to do this, maybe by paying X amount to create the gang slot, as it stands becoming official gives you a ton of advantages which I don't see any reason to keep behind a script. In that regard, my proposal would be to somehow allow groups access to the perks official gangs get (either by allowing them to create an official gang themselves on the F4 menu or by making the ability to recruit, import weapons, etc... publicly available to anyone who has enough money to dish out.)

And as a civ you can get away with a lot of shit, just play it smart. We're talking specifically about criminals confronting the police and thinking they can win 9/10, that is unrealistic.

I mean, you quite literally can, it might come with it's challenges (being robbed, etc..), but you can. Not only that but even if you couldn't be a civ, this doesn't take away from the fact that you are a criminal and cops are government employees given equipment by the government (which is paid by the tax payer). You have to be able to give a good and compelling argument, but so far all I've read is summed to ''Oh well cops have stuff so that's unfair'', without taking into account the opposite roleplay background both these paths have. Being a criminal IS SUPPOSED to be hard, you aren't supposed to get guns, cars, houses and money easily. You aren't supposed to be able to run around causing mayhem uninterrupted. Just like PD isn't supposed to have to pay for their own gear seeing as it is a government-appointed position. They aren't supposed to have to scrap around to get food and water (that's why we get a steady salary paid weekly). Saying that one has it better than the other is true in some aspects, but why is that bad ? Isn't that how roleplay should be ?

Wait, isn't that the consequence of being a criminal?

Dude you're complaints are directed at capitalism more than anything. We buy the same things you do when off-duty and while on-duty we buy all our food, bags, lockpicks, etc.. The entire point of a government job is that you are given the tools for the job. I don't see you complaining that farmers get free tractors or that groupe6 get free money transport trucks.

I guess I'll repeat myself since you missed some of what I said. ''Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying we should change this, but I find it ironic you're complaining about the police and bringing up ''realism'' when gangs on this server are rich as fuck, own businesses and have super/sports cars.'' I want to, as police, continue having the highest standard, but it's pretty hypocritical to bring up ''realism'' and what is fair and unfair when criminals are literally more unrealistic than PD when it comes to wealth and personal vehicles. If you said ''Well I don't think PD should be using supers and drags, but I also understand why they do it, they should remove this ability from PD AND also modify the economy to prevent ''rich gangs'''' then I would understand and possibly even agree. But don't pretend that everything with criminals is ok and nothing should change. At the very least recognize the irony in criticising PD for realism and ignoring criminal wealth.

Wait why are you spreading misinformation when you have no clue what you're talking about ? You're plain wrong. For those wondering this is how it works. - Law enforcement agencies and emergency services have the in-game radio (P), they use it as any other player would. They call out pursuits, traffic stops, felony stops, when they go on duty, when they go off duty, when they need immediate backup, etc... - IF a pursuit is initiated, a SWAT operation is in place or an officer initiates a panic alarm and calls it out then we can move into what is called ''TAC'' channels. As the name implies these are tactical channels used for specific situations where continuous information is needed. We use these because having 10+ members communicating over (P) would be chaos. Now, this IS a privilege. We are given permission by staff to use these channels. However, this privilege also comes with responsibility. When police use these channels in TS3 and talk in them they MUST ALWAYS be pressing N in-game. They CAN NOT call out something in a TAC channel and not in-game. IF they do it is metagaming and could be reported as a rule break. To say that TeamSpeak is our radio is misleading. We use a handful of channels in TS for better communication and we do so following strict rules to not give us an unfair advantage. If someone takes or smashes your radio in-game WE CAN NOT use TS for the duration of the situation until we get another radio. Plain and simple.

The appeal system is OCC/IC IA report and player complaints (if the matter is considered a rule breach). I know it might feel like it doesn't amount to much, but there is, in fact, an appeal system in place. Maybe one that needs improvements.