Cyrus Raven

An issue that exclusively affects one portion of the player base, nothing that can be done AT THE MOMENT because of the lack of rules and regulation but I guess there is ''no fix'' in your eyes. I wonder if the racism clause hadn't been written if you would say that there is ''no fix'' for a player being called the n word multiple times and people not stopping even after being told OOC'ly... The point of this thread is to discuss the issue and come up with solutions going forward, but I guess that's hard for some.

-1 Just so you have an idea, PD probably arrests close to a hundred people per day (at least from my experience). To catalog everything in a forum and keep dozens of bags at a time with items in them is not pragmatic at all unless you want to spend hours doing paperwork whenever you play. Now, this isn't to say that we ''couldn't do it'', but the solution we are trying to reach on this thread is one that hopefully is practical.

Just like to make a couple of points. It is very important to distinguish between those engaging in RP and those being malicious, unfortunately, as it stands it is very hard to tell which is which, sometimes people will engage in this behavior at not realize that the player on the other side has gone through the same thing on a daily basis. Having said this, - Increasing police presence is a good IC idea. However, it is important to note that reports are not enough to convict unless the player has video evidence, otherwise it turns into a ''he said she said situation.'' All we can do is increase presence in populated areas to catch the act ourselves. - A sex offenders list could be good, but not sure how it would play out IC'ly, maybe it would allow victims to have a restraining order, which would allow PD to arrest individuals breaking it when presented with the restraining order on scene. My goal at least isn't to completely eliminate behavior that could be considered sexist (so calling a woman a bitch or cunt), but to stop the behavior that is borderline harassment (AKA what was described in the original post with regards to hoards of players crouching and harassing them as well as low effort RP that isn't caused by a player's IC character, but more by their OOC issues).

The suggestion (if you read my post) isn't exclusive to women, but even if it was I would feel like a rule that curbs the effect of targeted harassment would be valid no ? If you observe a problem that only exclusively happens with X group then most likely one of the best solutions would be to present a solution that would mainly help X group. In this case (at least with my suggestion) it is a set of rules that would help everyone and hopefully remove some of the toxicity that players spread by being given free access to do essentially any and all RP situations (including situations that include extremely racist and sexist rhetoric).

I understand what you are saying, but you would also recognize that there are situations where regulation is needed even IC'ly, which is why we have rules against non-consensual ERP and Torture right? Wouldn't you agree that if this is a widespread problem being experienced by women in Eclipse RP that it should be delt with the same way that ERP and torture are dealt with ?

I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been this negative. I agree that something should be done about this. However, just like you, I recognize that this can be quite a tough task. I'll try and offer a suggestion with the intended goal to discourage players from RPing in such a sexist manner and then I will also point out a few issues that may come from such a suggestion, so we can potentially come up with a solution. Like the recent thread about homophobia, I feel like Eclipse is a community that allows a lot of different RP scenarios on the server, and while this is commendable it can obviously have negative repercussions (Someone calling an actual black person ''nigger'' or an LGBTQ person playing on the server and having to hear the word ''faggot). As the most popular RAGEMP English server we should be at the front when it comes to progressive thinking (at least this is what I would like to think). Having said this, limitations on common slurs and behaviors should be something that we look to curb because a lot of people use this freedom as an excuse to go around being an asshole. My suggestion in order to discourage this type of behavior is to apply a new set of rules around sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... and have SEVERE punishments for players who chose to break these rules (Perm Ban). This isn't something new to roleplay, virtually every RP server in GTA 5, SAMP, GMOD, ArmA, etc... have a rule set that includes some sort of limitation on these words. The goal is to make everyone feel welcome and not worry about someone insulting you in a way that might affect who you are as a person, in this case, the uncontrollable fact that some of our players are female. Don't they deserve to play the game without having four or five horny players surrounding them as if they were a piece of meat? Does any male player experience this? Now onto the problems. - ''But Cyrus wouldn't this restrict us from doing certain RP scenarios ?'' - Well yes and no. Having a rule set to prevent scenarios where people randomly walk up to a player who they don't know and start spitting out slurs is an overall good thing in my opinion. However, this doesn't mean that if a party of 4 or 5 want to engage in an RP scenario that would include such slurs that it would be ''impossible'', but it would require prior authorization from all parties, just like ERP or torture play. This would ensure that people can't randomly go around harassing other players under the guise of ''mUH rOLe pLAy'' without consulting with them first. - ''But Cyrus this is the internet and people should toughen up'' - Ok, I get that some of you might get triggered by the word ''privilege'', but this is a real thing. This ''pick yourself by the bootstraps and just deal with it 4head'' mentality is probably the most toxic thing that I've heard on these forums. Everyone is here to have fun and the reality is that some when faced with certain words or attitudes get offended, perhaps you have a rough time understanding this because you don't face these hardships. I think most of us can probably handle being called an idiot or an asshole, but being attacked by people on a daily basis every single time you speak for not having a dick takes a toll on you and it is unrealistic to expect people to ''just get over it'' Besides these two main issues, I don't see much that prevents us as a community from having a clearly stated rule set on racism, homophobia and sexism that also heavily punishes people from engaging in such rhetoric unless given permission by all parties, just like ERP and torture. I don't think that going around telling all the women on Eclipse to suck your dick and harassing them is an essential component to the server that we will missed, does anyone honestly feel otherwise?

-1 This seems like more of an IC issue and I will try and explain why. - PD is supposed to call a tow truck either from their own precinct or a mechanic, sometimes this isn't possible so depending on the situation an officer can drive the car to the impound lot. This is not illegal or unrealistic given the circumstances, if you have an issue with this it should be addressed in the form of an IA report in hopes that High Command changes LSPD protocol on Impounding vehicles. - PD driving impounded vehicles with no escort, at high speeds and no code 2 or 3 (lights and/or sirens), while not fearing for his safety is definitely something that is not allowed and would most likely constitute OOC corruption as the officer would be actively breaking traffic laws. Having said this, in situations where an officer is being actively chased by a gang or escorted by cruisers with code 2/3 capabilities than this would (in my opinion) be valid. If you have witnessed the former then feel free to post an OOC and IC IA report on the officer. TL:DR most of what is being discussed is already out of protocol and borders on OOC corruption so it should be addressed through either an IC or OOC report, if you are actively chasing and preventing an officer from impounding a vehicle then don't be surprised if they call it in and try and evade you while waiting for backup.

Can you elaborate on this ?

From my interpretation, Osborn wants a system that allows good roleplayers to get CK'ed by getting a completely new character, as opposed to just changing your name by paying credits or 25,000 (if it is your first time). I don't think the suggestion involved getting rid of the current system that allows people to pay for name changes and essentially clear their record. It is rather an addon that admins can do with the approval of the player on the spot to add to the RP.

I'm going to assume for sake of argument that your claim is true (Even though literally no one besides higher-ups have access to IA report archives, but apparently you are an all knowing god) Even IF you are correct, this proves nothing, it is merely a correlation (I.E. A coincidence). If you want to claim that IA reports past Det 1/SGT are biased or rigged then you need to prove that foul play from LSPD High Command is taking place. Saying ''Hey just look at the report, no one past Det1/SGT has ever been punished'' is NOT sufficient evidence for the claim you are trying to peddle.

Having a script to implement this would be cool, until then police officers don't have the resources or patience to keep hundreds of items around, it just isn't very pragmatic, but all for it if a script is made.

The comments on this thread...big yikes. As a hardcore RP server, I think we should allow all sorts of different characters and speech to take place, it makes the server unique, but even when this is the case we recognize that not everyone might be comfortable with the roleplay which is why we have such clauses pertaining to racism. Source: Even in-game, admins understand that people might get offended, especially when it comes to racism, torture/rape play, and ERP. So to see that people are OOC'ly using derogatory terms in a public discord is shameful, to say the least. Now, don't get me wrong, If I am with close friends and I know we're cool and no one is racist or homophobic then sure, I'll throw around the occasional homophobic or racist slur and I do so because they know I use it as the usual gamer substitute to ''Idiot, Stupid, Bro, etc...'', but the KEY DIFFERENCE is that I use it in PRIVATE, not a public discord with hundreds of strangers that I do not know. The defense that ''Bro it's just the internet 4head, Just get over it 4head'' is very weird to me considering that we are apart of one of the biggest, if not THE biggest English speaking GTA 5 RP server. This isn't uncensored 4chan or 8ch, this is a platform that advertises itself as a hardcore RP server and that has a very competent staff team that should be able to very easily implement rules that punish individuals using racial, homophobic and other bigotted slurs in a public OOC chat (Including Discord/TS/Faction/Gang, etc...) If you want to use the term ''faggot, nigger, coon, gay, retard, autistic, etc...'' then do it in a private chat with people who you know won't mind it, it isn't that hard and it could go a long way in us becoming a community that accepts everyone and shows restraint in public chats. Go crazy (to a reasonable degree) with your RP, if your character uses these words then so be it, but also know that what you are saying can sometimes be offensive (even if you think that words cANt bE OffEnSIve), which is why we should stop using these words OOC'ly and we should accommodate anyone who expresses discomfort In-game, it takes very little effort and the outcome is well worth it in my opinion.

Do you have any evidence for these claims ?

-1 Use the forums and report the officer if it is a rule break, if not you can OOC'ly and IC'ly report officers through Internal Affairs (IA). If you are in fact not breaking any laws at all and still getting arrested/charged then that can count as corruption and it is against LSPD faction and server rules. As for the overall suggestion, I don't see the point of having traffic cops for traffic offenses. Most officers are ''General Patrol'', this means that they respond to 911 calls, backup calls, panic alarms, 24/7 robberies, etc... One of these duties is also traffic regulation, there is no point in having another specific unit for traffic offenses because such offenses are a part of basic duties for all officers. The only thing I see happening if this gets implemented is just another division being added to LSPD and a bunch of regulations being added that prevents officers outside of traffic enforcement from giving out tickets and conducting traffic stops because people can't be bothered to follow traffic laws. Anyone with a license (acquired from the DMV in-game) should have a basic understanding of the traffic laws on the server, if you break them then be prepared to deal with the consequences, this is a Hardcore RP server, not a stunt jumping server.

I might be biased cause I won the jet ski one, but I really enjoy the events that give everyone the same cars or vehicles and the winner is mostly decided by skill as opposed to who has the better vehicle, item, weapon, etc... Also like other more social events like auctions and graduations.

That was my entire point. Because the server has parking meters and the police currently don't tow any car from the bank regardless if it paid a ticket or not it implies that it ISN'T a crime to park there. It is a crime to park in the middle of the road, but not around the bank, which is why it ISN'T an NCZ violation. If you want to fix this make it illegal and therefore a crime or ask Police/LSC to clean up the area more often.

-1 IC issue, there are parking meters at the bank which automatically implies that the area around the bank is to be used, regardless of your opinion on it, therefore the suggestion should be to increase enforcement of parking tickets IC'ly or make parking at the bank a server offense. Magically ''beaming'' vehicles from where they were parked with no valid IC issue is a no go IMO.

Let's say that the rule with regards to hacking and exploiting was not present in the rule book, do you think that it would be permissible for someone to hack the server or cheat? Generally speaking, all punishments should be under a rule set, but there are situations where the case is so specific that a rule wasn't specifically written for it. Let's take the example of abusing the AFK timer. We can induce that the reason why there is an AFK timer is so that players aren't left standing still in the middle of nowhere not interacting with people or for other purposes like farming paychecks. Essentially, the purpose of the mechanic is to indirectly tell players ''If you are online you should be working, interacting with people, RP'ing or otherwise mobile within the server and not AFK'. There might not be a specific rule that prevents this, but at the same time, it is fairly obvious that abusing this is antithetical to the system in place.

I mean it depends entirely on whether or not this happens a lot, just because you might have gotten banned for something that wasn't explicitly in the rules doesn't mean this is necessarily a common occurrence. If that is the case then I would +1, if not then I would throw it up as a one-time case and move on.

I've only been here for a month so my experience may be limited. But from what I've seen members of staff make an effort to help and be courteous at all times. Every time I've had an issue in-game and used /report I've gotten someone who is nice and ready to help clarify or fix any issues I have. Likewise, on the forums when I've reported someone or I have been reported staff members have taken time to look into the situation and give a verdict catering to each situation while always keeping the rules in mind, so they don't create an unwanted precedent. I'm sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience and hopefully talking about these issues can help solve some of the problems you feel are present in the community. Sometimes as players we have to understand that admins won't always be available or won't always reach a verdict that satisfies you, this can be due to a difference of opinion, understanding of the rules and/or the situation. There are always going to be very niche situations where who broke what rule is black and white and this can obviously lead to situations where a player feels like he has been unfairly treated by the staff team, these are what appeals are for, if it's the case that even the person reviewing the appeal agrees with the admin then there isn't much else to do than to take it in the chin and improve your actions based on the verdict.

True, so two chances essentially on the same character and then another two on the other character. Suggestion solved I guess.

Well dam, I was not aware of this at all. Thanks for clarifying. Maybe something should still be done for those who have used up their one name change (and are forced to donate to change it), but I imagine this solution is available to a lot of people.

I wasn't aware of this, how would you go about doing this ? Just changing your name and then ask a staff member to clear your records?

I don't disagree with you, but I'm arguing against anything you said. Let me try to illustrate my problem. Someone who is new joins the server and tries to go make some money at the farm. One of the things he notices is cars being lockpicked and people being robbed very frequently. After a few days, he decides to join a gang as most people are a part of a gang. He spends most of his days rolling around as a group and going to drug labs and chop shops, he eventually (as is natural in that kind of environment) gets arrested for either attempting to shoot a rival gang member or even an officer. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the experience a lot of new players get when joining the server. To answer your question ''I don't get why at the current state of server everyone thinks that it's a right to get a pistol and do crimes'' the reason why this is the current state of the server is because that's what the server indirectly promotes. Prior to this change (I can't say if this is still the case after the firearm license change) everyone and their mother owned a gun, either legally or illegally and if you did happen to get caught doing some fucked up shit, no one would care because they can just re-buy the firearm license and go down to the closest store and purchase a gun. This type of behavior, as you pointed out, is not worthy of an RP server, which is why these changes are really good in my opinion. However, transitioning to a system that essentially encourages more RP and less running and gunning around the city with no recourse at all for existing players seems unfair in my mind. I think it would be sensible to allow players a second chance at owning a firearm license and becoming a law-abiding citizen. I understand you might be exceptional in so far as you were able to cultivate two characters with no arrests, but surely even you recognize that you are the exception the norm. I think that the best case scenario we get people who want to own a firearm license for protection and still be a law abiding citizen and the worst case scenario we get an influx of people who get the license and end up still committing crimes, in which case they get the license revoked and can never own a license for the foreseeable future. I think this solution is better than potentially alienating a lot of the player base that is looking to improve their RP to something besides criminal RP.

The issue is that because of the recent change on how firearms work we essentially went from a state where anyone can grab a license no matter their charges too if you have a single felony you will be denied. While this process is 100% fine and something I fully support, all I am saying is that there should be an opportunity for people to redeem themselves given this massive change, otherwise, as I've pointed out, most people who have been playing on here for the past month will most likely not be able to get a license if they've even been remotely involved in gang/criminal activity. This essentially means that the only way to get a firearm license is to create a new character, which as you might imagine is probably not the most fun thing to do. Thus the suggestions above.