Cyrus Raven

+1 Make sure that you aren't getting double paychecks while on faction duty and add the ability for people to hold two jobs (maybe exclude the jobs that require specific clothes like farming as you're going to have to be on site anyway to work there)

mfw all women IRL marry a rich dude, I don't mean this in an offensive way but you are literally parroting incel talking points...yikes, and judging by the negative way you mentioned the ''me too'' movement it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to figure out your political ideology, I don't think you're the type of person we're trying to convince with this thread, some people are just to far gone.

These situations are not comparable. One thing is a game being hard to get into from the start and requires grinding and adapting your playstyle to avoid criminals, another thing is being actively harrassed IC'ly for the uncontorlable OOC fact that a player is female. Do you not see the difference? This is analogous to you telling me ''Your argument is bad because of X Y and Z'' and me turning around and calling you short. One is an attack on an argument that can change and the other is an insult on something that is uncontrollable. Just like potentially driving away players who find the game hard because of criminal activity and grinding is different to driving players away because someone decides to sit around all day to ''RP'' with you by harassing you for something that you have no control over, your sex.

''Honest question: Why is being bigoted worse than serious crime? Is it really that much worse if someone calls you "faggot" while holding you at gunpoint & making off with your car? If the OP is being harassed out-of-character for being a girl then yes, we should punish for that. But in-character I see no reason to ordain that a crime so heinous it's verboten. '' I already answered this. This is what I mean when I say that you aren't reading what others are saying. ''the purpose of bringing up other communities is to outline that they understand that despite the fact that they are hosting a server based on criminals and cops environment even then they have a hard line on racism and homophobia (as well as other aspects) because these issues go beyond a game and affect a big portion people OOC'ly'' Things aren't as black and white as they seem. Players expect to get robbed, they expect people to be offensive or mean, but at the end of the day, some things go beyond the RP and into OOC. Racism is one of those issues. Communities understand that allowing people to have free reign on saying 'nigger'' and ''faggot'' goes beyond ''realism'' and ''RP'' and that it will be used by people with ill intentions to degrade and offend others in-game under the guise of ''RP'' knowing well that the person behind the character is affected by it. The same applies to sexism, is it within the realm of possibility that criminals would catcall and harass women ? Sure, but at the same time this is a game and an inviting community, if having players constantly doing these types of actions for no apparent RP reason is having an OOC impact on players then I believe we should try and curb this behavior as countless other communities have in the past. Even this community agrees with this line of reasoning as they have clauses for racism, ERP and torture. Adding a rule with regards to sexism would not be out of the norm given the impact it is having.

Wow dude thanks for letting me know that playing an online video game that revolves around the cops and robbers theme means that I can get called a ''nigger'' and ''faggot'' for no real purpose, but I guess because we're playing a GTA game everything is ok in your mind Not even gonna try anymore, it's clear to me that you're either purposely being obtuse or worst yet you unironically see nothing wrong with this... The purpose of bringing up other communities is to outline that they understand that despite the fact that they are hosting a server based on criminals and cops environment even then they have a hard line on racism and homophobia (as well as other aspects) because these issues go beyond a game and affect a big portion people OOC'ly, unlike simply playing a GTA esque game. How are you unable to understand this ?

You seem to have a mindset that unless a problem is OOC then there is no problem at all and people should ''just deal with it'', we've discussed why this is not an ideal solution and OP has described that this is a daily thing, not something that can be ''avoided''. You insist on bringing up the same arguments and fail to address our points to your original reply. The reason why I brought up the racism rule was because you seem to think that there is currently no rule to regulate aspects or RP there should never be any rule no matter the problems that arise from that. In essence, you think that any restriction on RP is bad no matter the subject (Nazism, racism, homophobia, torture, ERP) which is a view you can hold, but just know that this isn't a view that many other roleplayers will agree with, just look at literally any RP community in any game ever, there is always without fault at least a rule with regards to racism or homophobia and the reason for this is because we understand that certain groups of people in online gaming communities are affected (just like in real life) by these issues.

mfw not being able to say ''nigger'' is giving a privilege to someone

I understand, but it just seems like an IC issue at the moment. We've established that PD cannot go into drug labs just by patrolling or driving around the area, they need to get a call from 911 or personally hear a lot of shots fired around the area (for example north village lab that is right next to the highway, you would be able to hear shots if you were driving by). So in my eyes, PD is not the issue here, but rather the civilians who call 911, which leads to the question. Should be actively be preventing civilians from reporting in drug labs ? If so, why ?

I see why that could be appealing, but I'm not sure how I feel about actively ignoring drug lab 911 calls because it is ''against the rules'' to respond to them unless X amount of time has passed. I think the best solution so far is dynamic or player owned drug labs that can virtually be anywhere. Then PD will need to use their detectives to gather information and evidence on the locations and we can still rely on normal 911 calls (although these will probably be reduced unless people mishandle information of where the drug labs are located)

Essentially what others have said. PD is barred from going into any drug lab location without first getting a report by a civilian (either via 911 or in person report). It's an OOC rule PD has so if you think anyone is breaking that feel free to file an OOC IA report.

Almost as if the server and PD wants a realistic representation of gun ownership, instead of having everyone on the server own a gun with 100+ felonies.

It's not impossible, but as I mentioned before, it isn't practical. We have around 10 police officers at a time on the server and tons of calls from civilians, EMS and backup calls from other officers to respond to. This idea that officers will spend time taking screenshots and filing reports on the forums for inventory management just to leave the items lying around with no possible way of remembering who they belong too is about the worst way of doing things. This isn't to say that an inventory system isn't needed, but I would love to see it implemented as a script where it adds little to no additional work VS having to go through a bunch of unpractical and tedious paperwork, just to have people complain that ''police are lazy and never respond to calls''

An issue that exclusively affects one portion of the player base, nothing that can be done AT THE MOMENT because of the lack of rules and regulation but I guess there is ''no fix'' in your eyes. I wonder if the racism clause hadn't been written if you would say that there is ''no fix'' for a player being called the n word multiple times and people not stopping even after being told OOC'ly... The point of this thread is to discuss the issue and come up with solutions going forward, but I guess that's hard for some.

-1 Just so you have an idea, PD probably arrests close to a hundred people per day (at least from my experience). To catalog everything in a forum and keep dozens of bags at a time with items in them is not pragmatic at all unless you want to spend hours doing paperwork whenever you play. Now, this isn't to say that we ''couldn't do it'', but the solution we are trying to reach on this thread is one that hopefully is practical.

Just like to make a couple of points. It is very important to distinguish between those engaging in RP and those being malicious, unfortunately, as it stands it is very hard to tell which is which, sometimes people will engage in this behavior at not realize that the player on the other side has gone through the same thing on a daily basis. Having said this, - Increasing police presence is a good IC idea. However, it is important to note that reports are not enough to convict unless the player has video evidence, otherwise it turns into a ''he said she said situation.'' All we can do is increase presence in populated areas to catch the act ourselves. - A sex offenders list could be good, but not sure how it would play out IC'ly, maybe it would allow victims to have a restraining order, which would allow PD to arrest individuals breaking it when presented with the restraining order on scene. My goal at least isn't to completely eliminate behavior that could be considered sexist (so calling a woman a bitch or cunt), but to stop the behavior that is borderline harassment (AKA what was described in the original post with regards to hoards of players crouching and harassing them as well as low effort RP that isn't caused by a player's IC character, but more by their OOC issues).

The suggestion (if you read my post) isn't exclusive to women, but even if it was I would feel like a rule that curbs the effect of targeted harassment would be valid no ? If you observe a problem that only exclusively happens with X group then most likely one of the best solutions would be to present a solution that would mainly help X group. In this case (at least with my suggestion) it is a set of rules that would help everyone and hopefully remove some of the toxicity that players spread by being given free access to do essentially any and all RP situations (including situations that include extremely racist and sexist rhetoric).

I understand what you are saying, but you would also recognize that there are situations where regulation is needed even IC'ly, which is why we have rules against non-consensual ERP and Torture right? Wouldn't you agree that if this is a widespread problem being experienced by women in Eclipse RP that it should be delt with the same way that ERP and torture are dealt with ?

I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been this negative. I agree that something should be done about this. However, just like you, I recognize that this can be quite a tough task. I'll try and offer a suggestion with the intended goal to discourage players from RPing in such a sexist manner and then I will also point out a few issues that may come from such a suggestion, so we can potentially come up with a solution. Like the recent thread about homophobia, I feel like Eclipse is a community that allows a lot of different RP scenarios on the server, and while this is commendable it can obviously have negative repercussions (Someone calling an actual black person ''nigger'' or an LGBTQ person playing on the server and having to hear the word ''faggot). As the most popular RAGEMP English server we should be at the front when it comes to progressive thinking (at least this is what I would like to think). Having said this, limitations on common slurs and behaviors should be something that we look to curb because a lot of people use this freedom as an excuse to go around being an asshole. My suggestion in order to discourage this type of behavior is to apply a new set of rules around sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... and have SEVERE punishments for players who chose to break these rules (Perm Ban). This isn't something new to roleplay, virtually every RP server in GTA 5, SAMP, GMOD, ArmA, etc... have a rule set that includes some sort of limitation on these words. The goal is to make everyone feel welcome and not worry about someone insulting you in a way that might affect who you are as a person, in this case, the uncontrollable fact that some of our players are female. Don't they deserve to play the game without having four or five horny players surrounding them as if they were a piece of meat? Does any male player experience this? Now onto the problems. - ''But Cyrus wouldn't this restrict us from doing certain RP scenarios ?'' - Well yes and no. Having a rule set to prevent scenarios where people randomly walk up to a player who they don't know and start spitting out slurs is an overall good thing in my opinion. However, this doesn't mean that if a party of 4 or 5 want to engage in an RP scenario that would include such slurs that it would be ''impossible'', but it would require prior authorization from all parties, just like ERP or torture play. This would ensure that people can't randomly go around harassing other players under the guise of ''mUH rOLe pLAy'' without consulting with them first. - ''But Cyrus this is the internet and people should toughen up'' - Ok, I get that some of you might get triggered by the word ''privilege'', but this is a real thing. This ''pick yourself by the bootstraps and just deal with it 4head'' mentality is probably the most toxic thing that I've heard on these forums. Everyone is here to have fun and the reality is that some when faced with certain words or attitudes get offended, perhaps you have a rough time understanding this because you don't face these hardships. I think most of us can probably handle being called an idiot or an asshole, but being attacked by people on a daily basis every single time you speak for not having a dick takes a toll on you and it is unrealistic to expect people to ''just get over it'' Besides these two main issues, I don't see much that prevents us as a community from having a clearly stated rule set on racism, homophobia and sexism that also heavily punishes people from engaging in such rhetoric unless given permission by all parties, just like ERP and torture. I don't think that going around telling all the women on Eclipse to suck your dick and harassing them is an essential component to the server that we will missed, does anyone honestly feel otherwise?

Can you elaborate on this ?

From my interpretation, Osborn wants a system that allows good roleplayers to get CK'ed by getting a completely new character, as opposed to just changing your name by paying credits or 25,000 (if it is your first time). I don't think the suggestion involved getting rid of the current system that allows people to pay for name changes and essentially clear their record. It is rather an addon that admins can do with the approval of the player on the spot to add to the RP.

I'm going to assume for sake of argument that your claim is true (Even though literally no one besides higher-ups have access to IA report archives, but apparently you are an all knowing god) Even IF you are correct, this proves nothing, it is merely a correlation (I.E. A coincidence). If you want to claim that IA reports past Det 1/SGT are biased or rigged then you need to prove that foul play from LSPD High Command is taking place. Saying ''Hey just look at the report, no one past Det1/SGT has ever been punished'' is NOT sufficient evidence for the claim you are trying to peddle.

Having a script to implement this would be cool, until then police officers don't have the resources or patience to keep hundreds of items around, it just isn't very pragmatic, but all for it if a script is made.

The comments on this thread...big yikes. As a hardcore RP server, I think we should allow all sorts of different characters and speech to take place, it makes the server unique, but even when this is the case we recognize that not everyone might be comfortable with the roleplay which is why we have such clauses pertaining to racism. Source: Even in-game, admins understand that people might get offended, especially when it comes to racism, torture/rape play, and ERP. So to see that people are OOC'ly using derogatory terms in a public discord is shameful, to say the least. Now, don't get me wrong, If I am with close friends and I know we're cool and no one is racist or homophobic then sure, I'll throw around the occasional homophobic or racist slur and I do so because they know I use it as the usual gamer substitute to ''Idiot, Stupid, Bro, etc...'', but the KEY DIFFERENCE is that I use it in PRIVATE, not a public discord with hundreds of strangers that I do not know. The defense that ''Bro it's just the internet 4head, Just get over it 4head'' is very weird to me considering that we are apart of one of the biggest, if not THE biggest English speaking GTA 5 RP server. This isn't uncensored 4chan or 8ch, this is a platform that advertises itself as a hardcore RP server and that has a very competent staff team that should be able to very easily implement rules that punish individuals using racial, homophobic and other bigotted slurs in a public OOC chat (Including Discord/TS/Faction/Gang, etc...) If you want to use the term ''faggot, nigger, coon, gay, retard, autistic, etc...'' then do it in a private chat with people who you know won't mind it, it isn't that hard and it could go a long way in us becoming a community that accepts everyone and shows restraint in public chats. Go crazy (to a reasonable degree) with your RP, if your character uses these words then so be it, but also know that what you are saying can sometimes be offensive (even if you think that words cANt bE OffEnSIve), which is why we should stop using these words OOC'ly and we should accommodate anyone who expresses discomfort In-game, it takes very little effort and the outcome is well worth it in my opinion.

Do you have any evidence for these claims ?

-1 Use the forums and report the officer if it is a rule break, if not you can OOC'ly and IC'ly report officers through Internal Affairs (IA). If you are in fact not breaking any laws at all and still getting arrested/charged then that can count as corruption and it is against LSPD faction and server rules. As for the overall suggestion, I don't see the point of having traffic cops for traffic offenses. Most officers are ''General Patrol'', this means that they respond to 911 calls, backup calls, panic alarms, 24/7 robberies, etc... One of these duties is also traffic regulation, there is no point in having another specific unit for traffic offenses because such offenses are a part of basic duties for all officers. The only thing I see happening if this gets implemented is just another division being added to LSPD and a bunch of regulations being added that prevents officers outside of traffic enforcement from giving out tickets and conducting traffic stops because people can't be bothered to follow traffic laws. Anyone with a license (acquired from the DMV in-game) should have a basic understanding of the traffic laws on the server, if you break them then be prepared to deal with the consequences, this is a Hardcore RP server, not a stunt jumping server.