Cyrus Raven

I suggest you take a look at the links I provided a few replies ago, not only are you completely wrong on what it means to be ''off-duty'', but you are also wrong on department protocols, although if you have any screenshots of these feel free to PM them to me and we can take a look at them. As for the burner phone suggestion, I would +1 that, but even if that is the case, calling a government service realistically requires you to provide your name and MD to report the type of wound to law enforcement if it is a stab wound, gun shot wound or if the medical call originated from a domestic abuse situation. Maybe an illegal doctor that you can pay to fix you up could also help.

-1 There seems to be no RP reason to do this. If you want your car to be safe then parking at the garage, having a script that makes your car impossible to steal seems unnecessary, also even if you did log-off in your car and you want to RP you sleeping in your car, why wouldn't other players RP'ly be able to wake you up and steal your car ?

This could be another suggestion, but I find it ironic that criminals want to use government services using numbers that are on the record while being wanted, but want no repercussions from it. Just an FYI, Law Enforcement Agencies don't get a call number for any MD calls, they have to manually open the MDC and crosscheck whoever called MD with the Wanted List. It's something that very very few officers and deputies do, myself being one of the few people.

Like I said before, I don't mind making the drive, this suggestion is meant as a quality of life improvement so in the cases that this happens the suspects don't have to potentially wait 15+ mins to get charges placed. From an RP perspective I think it makes perfect sense for off-duty LEOs to know their username and log-ins, and be able to use a cruiser or the closest precinct to add charges.

did you read any replies in this thread at all ?

Hmm I agree that meta gaming via IDs is not good, but IDs at the moment are very helpful, removing would do more harm than good. How would /ldo work ? How would you be able to PM someone to tell them they are being reported ? How would you do commands that involve IDs ?

I was actually unsure of how off-duty powers worked IRL, not that it matters that much when it comes to this RP server seeing as we aren't mimicking real life 1 to 1, but from what I've read so far whether you are on-duty or off-duty you are still a law enforcement agent and can still detain and arrest people, in other words ''enforce the law''. For those who want to do some reading here are a few links. @alexalex303 maybe you want to have a look at these seeing as you keep harping on about ''realism'' and stuff ''making no sense''. https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2018/09/legal-authority-of-off-duty-cops.html https://thinkprogress.org/the-incredible-power-of-off-duty-cops-d0d3435aba3f/ https://www.government.nl/topics/police/police-powers (From the government of Netherlands) It seems that the consensus is that off-duty officers still retain their powers whether they are in uniform or not, there are a few legal protections they might lose in the US when it comes to shootings and etc.. But for the purpose of this suggestion and the overall argument about ''realism'' it seems that even the real world doesn't agree with you.

-1 While I am all for increased RP, having an OOC weapon license seems like a bit overkill and counter intuitive to the objective of wanting better and more realistic RP. There has to be a balance between fun (allowing people to get weapons in some capacity, even if slightly restricted) and realism, the issue you point out seems to come from the quality of players we are letting in as opposed to whether people have access to guns or not. Something like a 2 day weapons restriction (scritply not being able to equip firearms) as a punishment for DM could be interesting, this is something that was present in some SAMP servers back in the day. Otherwise, heavily increasing the quiz difficulty and requirements would go a long way, maybe even have a strict interview process on TS or Discord where new players have to be interviewed after passing the quiz as a quick pre-check that they actually know what they are doing and haven't just copy pasted answers or had someone else do the quiz for them. These could fall under the duties of the quiz team or support staff. Similar to how ArmA 3 RP servers operate with regards to white-listing.

+1

Firstly, the only reason I mention the handbook is because of this statement ''While you'rec off duty , you witnessing a crime is no different than to a civilian unless you have proof of said crime. Its always hearsay.'' This is simply not true. We have no justice system, this is a police state and Law Enforcement Agent's testimony is in fact worth more than other civilians, it's a privilege for sure, but that's how it works. This is not even up for discussion. It's a fact. Secondly, please quote where in this thread I've said that off-duty officers should be able to arrest individuals and transport them to DOC/Mission Row ? You're straight up straw manning, you either know this or you struggle with reading comprehension (I don't mean this as an insult, but I've literally explained this in no uncertain terms to you before, here are the quotes) ''You shouldn't be conducting any sort of regular duties when off-duty, this suggestion has nothing to do with that. As for charges, you should absolutely be adding charges yourself if you were the officer/deputy who witnessed what happened.'' and ''In no place in this thread have I ever suggested that off-duty officers should be able to '' arrest someone for a crime, hop in a cruiser, and sentence them to prison and immense fines'' or anything remotely similar. '' As for the ''makes no sense'' portion, you would then have to agree with this statement, correct ? ''As for the realism talk, I do not buy that. If you want realism then remove every business from every criminal in the server, make all cars besides a simple coupe or sedan very expensive, reduce the overall payout for civ jobs and government jobs and change another million things that technically make the server ''unrealistic''.'' If not, why ?

It's called a ''relayed witness' or ''direct witness'' I suggest you re-read your handbook.

I don't why people keep bringing duties up. I've explained this like 4 times now. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT LETTING OFFICERS PERFORM THEIR DUTIES WHILE OFF-DUTY! This is simply a quality of life suggestion. If you are a criminal who got the cops called on you and got arrested, if the only witness to your crime is an off-duty officer then they have to add charges. As I mentioned to Alex (although he thought I was being snide for some reason), if you want to let criminals sit around waiting for charges to be added when they could have been done on the spot then that's fine, at the end of the day whether someone get's access to the MDC while off-duty or not changes NOTHING, I and others will still go out of our way to add charges, it's just a matter of whether or not we take a few seconds or 20 minutes. Simple as that. As for the realism talk, I do not buy that. If you want realism then remove every business from every criminal in the server, make all cars besides a simple coupe or sedan very expensive, reduce the overall payout for civ jobs and government jobs and change another million things that technically make the server ''unrealistic''. Not only that, but what part of knowing the log-in and password for a computer yet being stopped by a script is ''realistic'' in your mind ? Don't get me wrong, the above isn't an argument for adding a bunch of unrealistic stuff to the server, but one about having a blend between what is convenient and fun as well as realistic. Our SOPs tell all Deputies and Officers to add their own charges to avoid being accused of something OOC'ly or IC'ly and to facilitate tracking of who actually added charges in case of an IA report (OOC or IC). Not having the ability to realistically take your username and password, and accessing a simple computer seems more Non-RP to me than having a script prevent you from role playing this out.

The reason why I want to add charges myself is because it protects other officers in case of an OOC report or an IA report. In our handbooks it specifically says that whoever witnessed the crime should be the one applying charges. Sure, I could tell an officer to add them and I have in the past. But I personally don't want to be adding charges to someone if I wasn't the one who saw it go down because I don't want to be liable both IC'ly and OOC'ly for any mistakes other officers or deputies made, and I don't expect them to do the same for me.

I mean, this shows a lack of understanding about how the current system works. If this could be fixed by simply talking to other officers don't you think I would have thought about that... The point is that it is the handbook's recommendation that Deputies and Officers apply charges themselves when they are the one who witnessed the crime happening. If you're on-duty that's fairly simple. However, if you are off-duty this forces you to go back to your precinct (which might be far-away) and get on-duty for literally 20 seconds just to place a charge. Again, I would like to STRESS that this isn't an issue for most people, we will make the trip without a problem. But it might mean that suspects stay in the back of the cruiser waiting for the officer/deputy to go and apply charges and comeback (or call) to the arrest officer, which ends up being more time wasted. If the majority of the community is ok with that, then fair-play, but if you want to make things more efficient, then this suggestion might make sense. Also, I see you were unable to actually point out how this suggestion can get ''abused''.

Alex, I understand your perspective, but what you want involves a wider system change, which I'm not sure everyone supports. This suggestion was meant to improve how the current system works, but if you obviously disagree with the current system then of course you wouldn't want this suggestion implemented, I get it now. If you want to push for more realism on the server then I will most likely also +1 it. There are things like criminals owning businesses, gang members having very expensive vehicles, cops having very expensive vehicles, being able to go off-road with a super/sports, etc.. Which I think is unrealistic and should be changed, so if you want to make a thread about it I'll plus one it.

Did you read any of the above ?

I'll ask you the same question I asked someone else. ''I'm genuinely curious, how could this be abused? I've seen a few people bring it up already, but I can't really picture what would change from how it is right now. As far as I know any LEO can just walk into their respective precincts, /fduty or Ctrl+D and access the MDC. Being able to do this regardless of /fduty status wouldn't change the locations where you can access the MDC, unless I am overlooking something.''

You are taking things too literally. It's bad RP in your mind because you're pretending that this is exactly as things happen IRL and while taking IRL examples can be good in some cases, in others it makes no sense. I would agree with you that this would contribute to bad RP if off-duty officers as it stands couldn't detain and call a marked unit to transport a suspect after having detained/arrested them, returning to their precinct to go on-duty and then charging them. But that's exactly how it works right now. So taking that into account, this suggestion is convenient and adheres to the current way things work. If you have an issue with how cops work and think rules should be added with regards to how they act off-duty then that is a completely different issue and a larger criticism of PD/SD in general. I just wish you would get straight to this point instead of shooting down this suggestion under some premise that it's ''unrealistic'' or ''Non-RP''.

I get your point, but we already do skip this RP, in the state that our server hosts the word of an officer is considered to be above of a civilians, this comes with a lot of responsibility, but that's how it works. As I mentioned before, adding this feature or not would only affect how long suspects spend in the back of the cruiser waiting for the witnessing officer to charge him, everything else from procedures to the amount of paperwork would remain the same.

I'm genuinely curious, how could this be abused? I've seen a few people bring it up already, but I can't really picture what would change from how it is right now. As far as I know any LEO can just walk into their respective precincts, /fduty or Ctrl+D and access the MDC. Being able to do this regardless of /fduty status wouldn't change the locations where you can access the MDC, unless I am overlooking something.

Sure I get where you are coming from, I wouldn't know how these things work IRL, I was just thinking more about convenience for LEOs and Suspects. If my suggestion was accepted the locations at which I can still access the MDC remain the same.

You are correct, but it also includes regulations like not using radio while off-duty unless you are command and some other things that apply to when you are off-duty. For example: What I am talking about is with regards to relaying witnesses, these are officers who are either on or off duty and have directly witnessed a crime happening. Through these witnesses people can be charged, but as mentioned before, whoever saw it take place should be the one placing charges so they can be easily identified if a rule is broken or an IA report is filled. The objective with my suggestion is so that this can be done quickly to avoid wasting suspect time, which in my mind makes sense seeing as there should be no roleplay reason preventing me from doing this as access to MDC is conditional on you having a log-in and password and not whether you are on-duty or off-duty.

I fear you're the one getting caught up in this suggestion. ''I've regularly seen cops attend parties off-duty, drinking, and having fun. However, in your world view, those cops would be able to arrest someone for a crime, hop in a cruiser, and sentence them to prison and immense fines, while wearing shorts and vodka on their breath, because, "this is what the handbook says".'' This is a pure straw man of what was said. In no place in this thread have I ever suggested that off-duty officers should be able to '' arrest someone for a crime, hop in a cruiser, and sentence them to prison and immense fines'' or anything remotely similar. I very specifically said that transporting and handling of suspects is only to be done by on-duty officers. My point is that if you are in fact a witness to a crime, as an officer you are told to add charges yourself. If you disagree with this you are disagreeing with what the PD and SD handbook say. As for the ''borderline Non-RP'' comment I won't address it. My ''snide'' comment was an attempt to demonstrate that whether or not you agree with the suggestion, the underlying issue you have will remain regardless. I didn't think it could be interpreted as offensive, that is something I try and avoid on the forums. I don't appreciate your ''appalling attitude'' comment, you have no insight on who I am as a person let alone enough to judge my ''attitude'', to reach such lengths over a suggestion seems hypocritical to me. Anyways, I do not wish to derail the conversation anymore. Feel free to ask for clarifications like @Zion Willard, vote or comment.

I've been in situations where I was the witnessing officer to a crime. According to regulations the witnessing officer should be the one applying charges so in case of an IA report the transporting officer that applied the charges I told him to doesn't get ''fucked''. In my case, this required me to go all the way up to Paleto Bay just to sign-in and add the charges, wasting the suspect's time for about 10-15 mins when he was only getting a 50 min jail sentence. With the above implemented I could have simply RP'ed logging into the MDC at Mission Row, DOC or a fellow officer's cruiser, RP'ly using my account and then adding charges on the spot, which from an RP point of view kinda makes sense to me since you know your log-in and password. Whether you are scriptly wearing a uniform shouldn't realistically prevent you from logging into a computer with your credentials

I don't even know how to respond to this, you're just wrong in terms of how things work right now... LEOs can absolutely enforce the law while off-duty, but their abilities are reduced of course. They can't use the radio so they have to call 911 and they don't have access to any police gear or resources. If an off-duty officer witnesses an armed robbery, hostage situation, grand theft auto or even gets robbed himself, he should immediately be calling 911. Depending on the situation and it's urgency the officer is able to intervene. If the officer himself is robbed or injured and happens to know the person's name then he can absolutely charge that person. However, as it stands if something of the sorts happens then only the uniformed officer can charge him unless the witnessing officer goes all the way to their precinct or station and adds the charges (both wasting the time of the suspect and his time). Something that seems to be getting misinterpreted is that whether or not this change happens things will remain exactly the same. If an off-duty officer witnesses anything he will charge that person, it's just a matter of if it takes 10-15 mins to go to a place just so he can charge them or not. But hey, if you want to waste your own time go ahead, I'm not the one going to jail anyway.