People calling cops on labs?

[Martin Tulip]

Gangs. Be like

 

Rob, kill and shoot civilians yeh we boolin.

Civi gets pissed goes to undermine gang operations in retaliation.

OOoOooOh this sucks!1!1!!!

Maybe the RP life you lead comes with its RP consequences. 

Perhaps RP blockades and watchmen around labs to deter lookie loos? 

 

I think the one thing that would be shitty is if people just make unwarranted calls there should be a way for PD to check or RP if the call in question originated from a location known to be a lab and base the severity of the call and importance on that information. 

Maybe even a mechanism to investigate hoax calls which could be an offence in itself. 

[Zion Willard]

13 hours ago, TheCactus said:

Wait him to leave Sandy MD

this comment is why feelschromosome shouldnt have been removed from reactions

[alexalex303]

6 hours ago, Martin Tulip said:

Gangs. Be like

 

Rob, kill and shoot civilians yeh we boolin.

Civi gets pissed goes to undermine gang operations in retaliation.

OOoOooOh this sucks!1!1!!!

Maybe the RP life you lead comes with its RP consequences. 

Perhaps RP blockades and watchmen around labs to deter lookie loos? 

 

I think the one thing that would be shitty is if people just make unwarranted calls there should be a way for PD to check or RP if the call in question originated from a location known to be a lab and base the severity of the call and importance on that information. 

Maybe even a mechanism to investigate hoax calls which could be an offence in itself. 

The issue is that you don't need to "lookie loo" to know where the lab is, because they never move, almost everyone knows where they are.

Then they call 911 from an NCZ, describing the location, and then the cops themselves know where it is, cause, it never moved.

It's very silly to say deal with it in-character.

Edited January 21, 2020 by alexalex303

[kenichis]

20 hours ago, firsty said:

This has been seen without any calls or witnesses, so its pretty unrealistic. Nobody else around, but they sit there anyway.

Its metagame to "know" where the lab is IC as an on-duty cop. Same with MD, SD and I suppose DOC (should we ever get the chance to go there). As a medic, I get calls everytime from labs telling me to save them. Its not my fault if I inform PD that someone is making drugs there after someone brings me there.

Also, if you think that cop is metagaming the labs location, maybe then its worthy for a forum report or IA report.

[WindEZ]

10 minutes ago, kenichis said:

Its metagame to "know" where the lab is IC as an on-duty cop. Same with MD, SD and I suppose DOC (should we ever get the chance to go there). As a medic, I get calls everytime from labs telling me to save them. Its not my fault if I inform PD that someone is making drugs there after someone brings me there.

Also, if you think that cop is metagaming the labs location, maybe then its worthy for a forum report or IA report.

IA report thats a good one , when they will answer to those,  not in 2 months, maybe we will do them more often . And also when they will take some actions against their officers .

The metagaming report is also hard to prove , is one of the offences that is very hard to prove 100 % because if we take it as it  is, cops metagaming all the time in Tac on teamspeak .( But good luck in proving that )

But dont mind me , just spitting facts, much love 

[kenichis]

3 minutes ago, DimaDan said:

IA report thats a good one , when they will answer to those,  not in 2 months, maybe we will do them more often . And also when they will take some actions against their officers .

The metagaming report is also hard to prove , is one of the offences that is very hard to prove 100 % because if we take it as it  is, cops metagaming all the time in Tac on teamspeak .( But good luck in proving that )

But dont mind me , just spitting facts, much love 

The kind of mentality that bothers me sometimes. Always suspecting something bad of a person. I mean we're literally all here to just RP and have fun. Why do people always predict that cops are "metagaming" because they're on Tac just because they can't proof it didn't happen yet have no real proof it did happen anyways.

[WindEZ]

3 minutes ago, kenichis said:

The kind of mentality that bothers me sometimes. Always suspecting something bad of a person. I mean we're literally all here to just RP and have fun. Why do people always predict that cops are "metagaming" because they're on Tac just because they can't proof it didn't happen yet have no real proof it did happen anyways.

This kind of mentality bothers you friend ? Who say im predicting ? If you did not read my entire post ' im spitting facts'' if you know the understanding of that means that i have evidence dear and kind sir .

And no , i dont think some people are here to RP, some of them are here just for the win . If you wish to have a better understanding of this matter you cant contact me in private and i will show my facts , cause tbh you need to see if someone has evidence to support themselves before you draw a conclusion about them 

But another fact for everyone here that plays only a legal character , 1 week after you play a criminal side of the RP you will be saying damn that nigga was right .

A very good example and a dear friend is @GOAT that himself is PD and he saw the criminal side and how people break the rules or just rule playing .

Edited January 21, 2020 by DimaDan

[kenichis]

2 minutes ago, DimaDan said:

This kind of mentality bothers you friend ? Who say im predicting ? If you did not read my entire post ' im spitting facts'' if you know the understanding of that means that i have evidence dear and kind sir .

And no , i dont think some people are here to RP, some of them are here just for the win . If you wish to have a better understanding of this matter you cant contact me in private and i will show my facts , cause tbh you need to see if someone has evidence to support themselves before you draw a conclusion about them 

But another fact for everyone here that plays only a legal character , 1 week after you play a criminal side of the RP you will be saying damn that nigga was right .

A very good example and a dear friend is @GOAT that himself is PD and he saw the criminal side and how people break the rules or just rule playing .

I did exactly what you said. I tried criminal RP and yeah most people want to always win there. I found that legal factions are the way to go in terms of just quality of RP. Nothing against gangs that have great RP as I've had alot of that before. But what I'm saying is that it seems most of the problems involving ruleplayers etc are mostly revolved around crim RP players, and in the end its crim RP players who complain against legal players.

However, what I'm saying is that no matter who that person is you should trust him to do his best to RP, not simply suspect him of metagaming or breaking rules in general. Especially if he's a part of a faction that actively enforces people to maintain a high level of RP.

[Amaim]

Just now, DimaDan said:

IA report thats a good one , when they will answer to those,  not in 2 months, maybe we will do them more often . And also when they will take some actions against their officers .

The metagaming report is also hard to prove , is one of the offences that is very hard to prove 100 % because if we take it as it  is, cops metagaming all the time in Tac on teamspeak .( But good luck in proving that )

But dont mind me , just spitting facts, much love 

I am really curious of the metagaming you think is happening in TAC, I have been active in SD for 5 months now and I have never encountered a case of metagaming in TAC. (BTW there is a very big chance that there is a staff member in all TACs as many are in PD/SD and active), anyways let's not go offtopic here.

I can tell you that 99.99% of the times PD/SD dismantles a drug lab is due to a call originating from that lab or someone reporting it, is it silly.. yes but it's only silly cause the drug lab locations are stationary all the time and it's public knowledge so anybody can call 911 and provide this knowledge. if the drug labs become dynamic (craftable or changing locations, preferably craftable) calling 911 on labs is gonna be 100% fine and logical. (not speaking about random calls)

Edited January 21, 2020 by Amaim

[Martin Tulip]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

The issue is that you don't need to "lookie loo" to know where the lab is, because they never move, almost everyone knows where they are.

Then they call 911 from an NCZ, describing the location, and then the cops themselves know where it is, cause, it never moved.

It's very silly to say deal with it in-character.

Hence my last bit around unwarranted calls to counter the behaviour. There should be a mechanic around reporting an actual crime taking place from the location and prioritised accordingly. I agree with the issue of unwarranted calls I don't agree with players not being able to call the cops all together. 

[Aldarine]

Back to the original topic of the post I think we can all agree that random 911 calls regarding drug labs are silly especially if calling from an NCZ. Perhaps something to consider while awaiting new drug labs/criminal update is for drug labs to either be reported in person or you have to be on the premise/incredibly close to the lab itself for the call to be valid. I personally do not think that making a call about a drug lab from an NCZ should be allowed at all. It is borderline abuse of the NCZ script considering that you are protected from somebody DMing you for calling the police on them and can just camp there. Something like this would also assist in alleviating in the whole "see people at lab, drive down the road, call 911, report it, keep driving to the next lab" that I have personally witnessed both on a legal and criminal character. LSPD/LSSD should also consider doing more when receiving a call about a drug lab. How does the caller know that it is a drug lab? Were they inside? Did they cook? Were people seen cooking? These are all questions that can be asked prior to rolling up on a lab and also provide potential consequences on the person who made the call.

Being on the grounds of a lab is not a crime and labs shouldn't be destroyed unless somebody is actively using it in my opinion. Realistically it could just be a shed filled with random ingredients and you wouldn't actually know it was a drug lab unless you see somebody cooking or you yourself know the use (which comes from learning the recipes). If a medic gets a 911 call from just outside a lab yet sees nobody cooking or anything, how can they be certain it's a drug lab? If they call PD/SD, should they investigate first? Perhaps extend RP on that scene by testing the ingredients, inspecting the cooking utensils, etc. to confirm it was just used to make drugs and isn't just a glorified chemical storage locker. Ingredients such as acetone, ammonia, powdered lime, etc. have other IRL uses and are not solely drug making materials which I feel a lot of people do ignore.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Aldarine
Added an extra thought at the end

[Amaim]

Just now, Aldarine said:

Back to the original topic of the post I think we can all agree that random 911 calls regarding drug labs are silly especially if calling from an NCZ. Perhaps something to consider while awaiting new drug labs/criminal update is for drug labs to either be reported in person or you have to be on the premise/incredibly close to the lab itself for the call to be valid. I personally do not think that making a call about a drug lab from an NCZ should be allowed at all. It is borderline abuse of the NCZ script considering that you are protected from somebody DMing you for calling the police on them and can just camp there. Something like this would also assist in alleviating in the whole "see people at lab, drive down the road, call 911, report it, keep driving to the next lab" that I have personally witnessed both on a legal and criminal character. LSPD/LSSD should also consider doing more when receiving a call about a drug lab. How does the caller know that it is a drug lab? Were they inside? Did they cook? Were people seen cooking? These are all questions that can be asked prior to rolling up on a lab and also provide potential consequences on the person who made the call.

Being on the grounds of a lab is not a crime and labs shouldn't be destroyed unless somebody is actively using it in my opinion. Realistically it could just be a shed filled with random ingredients and you wouldn't actually know it was a drug lab unless you see somebody cooking or you yourself know the use (which comes from learning the recipes). If a medic gets a 911 call from just outside a lab yet sees nobody cooking or anything, how can they be certain it's a drug lab? If they call PD/SD, should they investigate first? Perhaps extend RP on that scene by testing the ingredients, inspecting the cooking utensils, etc. to confirm it was just used to make drugs and isn't just a glorified chemical storage locker. Ingredients such as acetone, ammonia, powdered lime, etc. have other IRL uses and are not solely drug making materials which I feel a lot of people do ignore.

I agree with most of your points, and by the way most of the times if we discover a drug lab somehow (calls mostly) if we don't find anybody inside we just leave it be. (it's not a rule or anything but we usually do it)

Busting drug labs is not fun anyways most of the times we are not keen on busting drug labs at all. (OOCly speaking)

Edited January 21, 2020 by Amaim

[Msato]

18 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

Back to the original topic of the post I think we can all agree that random 911 calls regarding drug labs are silly especially if calling from an NCZ. Perhaps something to consider while awaiting new drug labs/criminal update is for drug labs to either be reported in person or you have to be on the premise/incredibly close to the lab itself for the call to be valid. I personally do not think that making a call about a drug lab from an NCZ should be allowed at all. It is borderline abuse of the NCZ script considering that you are protected from somebody DMing you for calling the police on them and can just camp there. Something like this would also assist in alleviating in the whole "see people at lab, drive down the road, call 911, report it, keep driving to the next lab" that I have personally witnessed both on a legal and criminal character. LSPD/LSSD should also consider doing more when receiving a call about a drug lab. How does the caller know that it is a drug lab? Were they inside? Did they cook? Were people seen cooking? These are all questions that can be asked prior to rolling up on a lab and also provide potential consequences on the person who made the call.

Being on the grounds of a lab is not a crime and labs shouldn't be destroyed unless somebody is actively using it in my opinion. Realistically it could just be a shed filled with random ingredients and you wouldn't actually know it was a drug lab unless you see somebody cooking or you yourself know the use (which comes from learning the recipes). If a medic gets a 911 call from just outside a lab yet sees nobody cooking or anything, how can they be certain it's a drug lab? If they call PD/SD, should they investigate first? Perhaps extend RP on that scene by testing the ingredients, inspecting the cooking utensils, etc. to confirm it was just used to make drugs and isn't just a glorified chemical storage locker. Ingredients such as acetone, ammonia, powdered lime, etc. have other IRL uses and are not solely drug making materials which I feel a lot of people do ignore.

You couldn't have explained it better in my opinion. 

It would a really good change to see labs only go down if there is evidence of them being used upon arrival of law enforcement. 

Again talking from experience the process used to be:

Drug lab gets called in > 75% of units respond code 3 > flood the lab and conveniently run to the shelves location > call in "active drug lab disregard shots" > blast the lab down even when it's empty. 

As I mentioned in my reply to this response there are multiple changes that could be made both IC and OOC to put a bandaid over the wound, such as restricting drug lab calls to IB only so investigation can occur. Only destroying labs when there is evidence of them being actively used and add an OOC evidence + RP reasoning rule to call in / disable labs. 

[Aldarine]

20 minutes ago, Amaim said:

I agree with most of your points, and by the way most of the times if we discover a drug lab somehow (calls mostly) if we don't find anybody inside we just leave it be. (it's not a rule or anything but we usually do it)

Busting drug labs is not fun anyways most of the times we are not keen on busting drug labs at all. (OOCly speaking)

Would you mind elaborating on any point that you're not in agreement with for reference and constructive conversation?

In regards to leaving the lab alone if nobody is there, I have to say that is very admirable of you. If that was the case all around I think that labs, in their current state, would be good for criminals who are very limited on their opportunities on the server (Note: I have full confidence in saying this as I have played on a legal character my entire time here on ECRP and have delayed making a criminal for a while due to limited opportunities. I have now made a criminal character and in just a few short days have experienced firsthand the limited nature of criminal roleplay). 

I have personally witnessed nobody using a lab and the lab still getting destroyed (I was on Fire Department duty with LSEMS and took part in the lab destruction following a department radio call and there was not a single suspect at the location or being removed from it). There is absolutely no actual reason for that. I wholeheartedly believe that utilizing some of my earlier suggestions will assist in increasing RP on all sides - Criminals have to organize escape plans and hiding evidence to clear out labs leading to better communication and more detailed RP and LEOs would have to investigate active use of the lab.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Aldarine

[krooks365]

 LSPD/LSSD should also consider doing more when receiving a call about a drug lab. How does the caller know that it is a drug lab? Were they inside? Did they cook? Were people seen cooking? These are all questions that can be asked prior to rolling up on a lab and also provide potential consequences on the person who made the call.

^^^ (I can't quote on my phone BUT @Aldarine is on the money here) 

i have personally had someone call on a lab and had PD come to the lab and arrest me. Meanwhile the guy who called is down there picking plants and cooking and when I tell the cop "yo what is that dude doing?" They are dumbfounded and then are like "we can't confirm he's cooking" like WHAT? You rolled up and are arresting me for the same thing so ???.

I am all for more rp in this way being a thing. It also adds more RP for PD and IB rather than take opportunity away. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by krooks365
Removed all my CA superfluous 'like' terminology

[Amaim]

Just now, Aldarine said:

Would you mind elaborating on any point that you're not in agreement with for reference and constructive conversation?

In regards to leaving the lab alone if nobody is there, I have to say that is very admirable of you. If that was the case all around I think that labs, in their current state, would be good for criminals who are very limited on their opportunities on the server (Note: I have full confidence in saying this as I have played on a legal character my entire time here on ECRP and have delayed making a criminal for a while due to limited opportunities. I have now made a criminal character and in just a few short days have experienced firsthand the limited nature of criminal roleplay). 

I have personally completely witnessed nobody using a lab and the lab still getting destroyed. There is absolutely no actual reason for that. I wholeheartedly believe that utilizing some of my earlier suggestions will assist in increasing RP on all sides - Criminals have to organize escape plans and hiding evidence to clear out labs leading to better communication and more detailed RP and LEOs would have to investigate active use of the lab.

Well I agree that it shouldn't be allowed to call 911 on labs from NCZ's however I don't think that's gonna solve anything they are just gonna do it from anywhere nearby while in their vehicles (which is usually the case), I agree that labs shouldn't be destroyed unless someone is caught cooking in it.

I think we should be pushing for changing how drug labs work all the way which would solve this problem 100% (speaking about removing stationary drug labs and making it craftable) 

Making a rule about calling 911 is not gonna be easily enforced at all. (Hard to prove & legal players are not gonna pause every single scenario they encounter to investigate OOCly first)

 

 

[Aldarine]

I absolutely agree that the end goal should be to change how drug labs work but of course that is locked behind scripting barriers that take a lot of time and hard work from our developers. In the meantime however I do believe some things can be implemented, the biggest one of which being:

- Drug labs can only be destroyed following proper investigation/evidence of active use. Under all other circumstances they should be viewed as chemical storage shelves for miscellaneous purposes as there is no confirmation beyond a reasonable doubt that these locations are being utilized for illegal activity.

I believe that is something fairly simple that can be added to the already in place protocols for LEOs regarding drug labs. I would be very keen on hearing from faction heads in regards to this suggestion as a bandaid to the problem until we can get improved lab scripting.

[Amaim]

Just now, Aldarine said:

I absolutely agree that the end goal should be to change how drug labs work but of course that is locked behind scripting barriers that take a lot of time and hard work from our developers. In the meantime however I do believe some things can be implemented, the biggest one of which being:

- Drug labs can only be destroyed following proper investigation/evidence of active use. Under all other circumstances they should be viewed as chemical storage shelves for miscellaneous purposes as there is no confirmation beyond a reasonable doubt that these locations are being utilized for illegal activity.

I believe that is something fairly simple that can be added to the already in place protocols for LEOs regarding drug labs. I would be very keen on hearing from faction heads in regards to this suggestion as a bandaid to the problem until we can get improved lab scripting.

I totally agree with you, I myself gonna adhere to these, however I think you or one of the illegal factions heads should compose a message to be sent to all legal factions heads with a link to this topic and a summary of the demands which you just mentioned, this can be implemented easily if legal faction heads decides to specially SD's as drug labs are in SD's jurisdiction. 

[Qiang]

-1

[Aldarine]

17 minutes ago, Amaim said:

I totally agree with you, I myself gonna adhere to these, however I think you or one of the illegal factions heads should compose a message to be sent to all legal factions heads with a link to this topic and a summary of the demands which you just mentioned, this can be implemented easily if legal faction heads decides to specially SD's as drug labs are in SD's jurisdiction. 

Very good idea! I will look into following up with the Faction Management Team within the Staff Team and see if it goes anywhere. I think this whole conversation has been very productive and can potentially improve/expand on all avenues of roleplay within the server.

[Msato]

13 minutes ago, Qiang said:

-1

Glad to see your constructive input on such a prominent topic. 

[moment]

4 hours ago, Hoxton_Curry said:

Whoever thinks it's fine for someone to RANDOMLY call cops on a lab probably doesn't play criminal at all

This.

[WindEZ]

58 minutes ago, Qiang said:

-1

Honestly i think you are 100 % right sir .

We been talking back and forth here but now , thanks to you we solved it 

[TheCactus]

15 hours ago, Zion Willard said:

this comment is why feelschromosome shouldnt have been removed from reactions

Calm down there keyboard warrior.
I never said I am against all this and I hate when cops "find" and dismantle the lab after a 911 call that originated far away and has a vague description.
Even if someone mentions the ACE Liquor store, I usually try to see if someone gets out and flees when I arrive with sirens. I also expect people to dismantle it when they have backup, not their unit alone.

When drug labs are gone or occupied, criminals start robbing around the city/county so I prefer they earn money cooking.

Edited January 21, 2020 by TheCactus