Demands SHOULD equal DM rights

[Jordan]

1 hour ago, Clank said:

People get shot IRL for less LMFAOOOO.

There are cherry picked scenarios where this happens yes, but we are talking on a broader scale, in reality most of the time: No, you will not be shot for something as little as a simple insult 

[Demonmit1]

4 minutes ago, Eliza said:

I think it’s important to remember that everyone has their own reasons for filing a forum report. What one person might see as petty or unnecessary, another might view as completely justified. That’s why it’s ultimately the responsibility of the staff handling these reports to determine whether a report is valid or not. For example, Jimbob could look at some reports made by John, and think that they are petty, while Jimbob may see the same report as fully justified and necessary because he believes he was the victim of a rulebreak, and wants to try and get his items back. The subjectivity is unavoidable. Any player is entitled to submit a report and have it investigated if they believe they were subject to a rule break, as you’ve done five times in the last four months according to your own data.

You are absolutely right about two things, every player is entitled to submit a report, and the subjectivity in any "single" report is unavoidable. But, you've missed the entire point of my post. its not about how a random player subjectively views a single report, its about what I've proven is the objective, measurable patterns from well dozens of reports that are concentrated within a small list of players connected together. The issue isn't that John and Jimbob feel differently about one incident, the issue is that John, Jimbob, and their 20 friends are responsible for over 100 reports against each other in four months, while the rest of the server is not.

Im really happy you brought up my own reports, so lets talk about that...

Report 1: A player jumped off a bridge to their death to avoid arrest (NRP/Fear RP).
Report 2: A player rejoined a radio frequency after dying in a scene to tell others the frequency has been compromised (NLR).
Report 3: Two players swam deep into the ocean during a chase, doing circles to get away. (NRP).
Report 4: A player repeatedly ignored commands with a shotgun pointed in his face (Fear RP).
Report 5: Two players disconnected while being arrested (Combat Logging).

The reports I've filed are objective, very clear rule breaks. they're not targeted at a specific group, or specific player.

Now, looking at the rest of the data and reports, they are overwhelmingly subjective Deathmatching reports. They are filed immediately after losing a gunfight, almost always at a criminal hotspot, and they are filed by the same small group of players against their direct IC rivals, over and over and over again.

The current report system and the lack of staff oversight or care, highly encourages these constant back and forth reports. having a refund system tells players, "If you lose, file a report. You might get your stuff back!" It's not about being subjective on which reports are valid and which are not, its about refunds being a direct, flawed incentive that encourages veteran players to abuse it, without repercussion. "If you lose, file a report. You might get your stuff back!"

Faction Management gave themselves the tools to deal with this in FM 2.0. They have the authority. Yet, as the last nine months proves, there has been no visible change, no progress, and no enforcement. The problem persists because it is allowed to.

[Clank]

17 hours ago, Jordan said:

There are cherry picked scenarios where this happens yes, but we are talking on a broader scale, in reality most of the time: No, you will not be shot for something as little as a simple insult

Okay, if we want to continue to argue semantics. 
 

I will pay for a week vacation to a location of your choice! The only thing I ask of you is the following:

During your trip, you must pick a destination at or near a high crime rate location. You will then find someone in that violent city of your choice with a history of gun violence and violent gang affiliation in the United States and that person is armed with a firearm. Then you will begin insulting them. At no point will you say “I’m just kidding man” or you will forfeit any expenses paid on your trip. I will pay for your flight, room and expenses minus anything that comes from your interaction with this fella. All out of my own pocket. 
 

We will see how that adventure goes for you. I’ll even give you some suggestions on who and what neighborhoods you can go to if you agree!

I’m being dead serious and I look forward to you reaching out on discord so we can plan your free vacation trip! I will obviously vet the destination to make sure this is a proper agreement.

[CalvinKlein]

@Clank

A lot of people seem to have no idea how the real world actually works, Bala says "we're all neckbeards and neeks"

I'd argue that's a % of people but not everyone, many of us have actual experience out and about in life and game to chill out.

 

[Jordan]

8 hours ago, Clank said:

During your trip, you must pick a destination at or near a high crime rate location. You will then find someone in that violent city of your choice with a history of gun violence and violent gang affiliation in the United States and that person is armed with a firearm. Then you will begin insulting them. At no point will you say “I’m just kidding man” or you will forfeit any expenses paid on your trip. I will pay for your flight, room and expenses minus anything that comes from your interaction with this fella. All out of my own pocket. 

You will likely get mugged, but we have rules on that, however I reckon an ass beating is 100000000% more likely than getting straight up shot. 

[SteakHappy]

On 9/2/2025 at 10:06 PM, Demonmit1 said:

Well I will and it needs to be addressed.

Top Players Filing Reports (3+):

Why (Bo Vespucci): 8 reports
Trait (Damon Sandhill): 7 reports
MateiC (Matei Knight): 5 reports
Demonmit1 (Tim Sutton): 5 reports
Dnwlo (Raphael Lang): 5 reports
pingo0 (Darijan Stojanchov): 4 reports
Trevor Zelias (Richard Forth): 4 reports
Diabolical (John Gradwick): 4 reports
DawidG103 (Benny Carter): 3 reports
Kevin Biker: 3 reports
NEO77 (NEO BRUCE): 3 reports
moment (Ash Volkov): 3 reports
Cal (Callum Goat): 3 reports
SteakHappy (Alistair Vespucci): 3 reports
Felarx (Felarx Knight): 3 reports
Romeo Knight: 3 reports
Trevor Murphy: 3 reports

Most Reported Individuals (3+):

Callum_Goat: 7 reports
Felarx_Knight: 7 reports
Kevin_Biker: 7 reports
Romeo_Knight: 6 reports
Damon_Sandhill: 5 reports
Alistair_Vespucci: 5 reports
Leon_Vespucci: 5 reports
Misho_King: 4 reports
Kon_Xun / Kon_Xiao: 4 reports
Ronaldo_Knight: 4 reports
Andre_Banks: 4 reports
Jon_Alison: 4 reports
David_Deltoid: 4 reports
Alexis_Knight: 3 reports
Markus_Knight: 3 reports
Pablo_Marian: 3 reports
Bo_Vespucci: 3 reports
John_Gradwick: 3 reports
Ghost_Corteiz: 3 reports
Harry_Payne: 3 reports
Vincent_Crawford: 3 reports
Richard_Higuchi: 3 reports
Moreno_Makaveli: 3 reports

Breaking news: Most active criminals on the server account for most reports! 

[CalvinKlein]

1 hour ago, SteakHappy said:

Breaking news: Most active criminals on the server account for most reports! 

I’d argue against the “most active” part.

I know a lot more people who are more “active criminals” who’s names aren’t there, myself included.

Forum wars and revenge reports are cringe 

Edited September 4, 2025 by CalvinKlein

[SteakHappy]

7 hours ago, CalvinKlein said:

I’d argue against the “most active” part.

I know a lot more people who are more “active criminals” who’s names aren’t there, myself included.

Forum wars and revenge reports are cringe 

I mean fair. I was just pointing out that bro was sorta stating the obvious, and the list doesn't show the full story.

I have 5 reports against me, all denied. Ive reported 3 times in situations where I lost something, all accepted I think?

If I report someone, and they were in the wrong and I get my stuff back, it's not a revenge report...

Basically a list of "who reports/gets reported the most" is useless, was my point.

Edited September 5, 2025 by SteakHappy

[Jordan]

7 hours ago, CalvinKlein said:

I know a lot more people who are more “active criminals” who’s names aren’t there, myself included.

It's mostly: If someone has lost something, or died in an altercation its probably getting reported.

I see nothing wrong with players reporting if/when they lose something. If you believe a rule has been broken, then you believe that you had lost your items unfairly, you should feel the right to report it. What player gets into an altercation where someone uses an exploit to kill them, or breaks a rule to get an advantage and suddenly they lose their valuable items they worked hard for to get. 

Additionally its not like getting a report accepted means you automatically get your things back. A refund request still has to be made, and reviewed, and then accepted by members high in staff.
 

TLDR: I dont see anything wrong with players being able to report supposed rulebreaks if they have been/think they have been wronged.

[SteakHappy]

19 hours ago, Jordan said:

You will likely get mugged, but we have rules on that, however I reckon an ass beating is 100000000% more likely than getting straight up shot. 

Are you American? (genuine question.) He is 100% correct, you would likely be killed if you went into a bad neighborhood and started shit-talking an armed gang member in basically any big city lmao.

Doesn't mean I agree that the server should operate on demands = dm rights. It should balance fun and realism, and being shot every 2 seconds isn't fun.

There was a time when demands did = dm rights. It was changed for a reason.
 

Edited September 5, 2025 by SteakHappy

[Jordan]

21 minutes ago, SteakHappy said:

Are you American? (genuine question.) He is 100% correct, you would likely be killed if you went into a bad neighborhood and started shit-talking an armed gang member in basically any big city lmao.

Yes im american, and no he is not 100% correct, Probably best to stick to the conversation at hand instead of arguing semantics. Whether or not we agree how often or easy it is to get shot really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[alexalex303]

clear and properly communicated demands at a location that makes sense should allow people to shoot your character if you choose to flee them.

[Quietthecutie]

On 9/3/2025 at 4:20 AM, Demonmit1 said:

You are absolutely right about two things, every player is entitled to submit a report, and the subjectivity in any "single" report is unavoidable. But, you've missed the entire point of my post. its not about how a random player subjectively views a single report, its about what I've proven is the objective, measurable patterns from well dozens of reports that are concentrated within a small list of players connected together. The issue isn't that John and Jimbob feel differently about one incident, the issue is that John, Jimbob, and their 20 friends are responsible for over 100 reports against each other in four months, while the rest of the server is not.

Im really happy you brought up my own reports, so lets talk about that...

Report 1: A player jumped off a bridge to their death to avoid arrest (NRP/Fear RP).
Report 2: A player rejoined a radio frequency after dying in a scene to tell others the frequency has been compromised (NLR).
Report 3: Two players swam deep into the ocean during a chase, doing circles to get away. (NRP).
Report 4: A player repeatedly ignored commands with a shotgun pointed in his face (Fear RP).
Report 5: Two players disconnected while being arrested (Combat Logging).

The reports I've filed are objective, very clear rule breaks. they're not targeted at a specific group, or specific player.

Now, looking at the rest of the data and reports, they are overwhelmingly subjective Deathmatching reports. They are filed immediately after losing a gunfight, almost always at a criminal hotspot, and they are filed by the same small group of players against their direct IC rivals, over and over and over again.

The current report system and the lack of staff oversight or care, highly encourages these constant back and forth reports. having a refund system tells players, "If you lose, file a report. You might get your stuff back!" It's not about being subjective on which reports are valid and which are not, its about refunds being a direct, flawed incentive that encourages veteran players to abuse it, without repercussion. "If you lose, file a report. You might get your stuff back!"

Faction Management gave themselves the tools to deal with this in FM 2.0. They have the authority. Yet, as the last nine months proves, there has been no visible change, no progress, and no enforcement. The problem persists because it is allowed to.

The Data scrape is very impressive and does bring to light some interesting facts, but we also need to consider the human element. 

why do the same 4/5 orgs account for oh lets say 80% of the reports? because they are the ones engaging in the most unregulated PVP. Its only natural that those players account for most of the reports. 

Lets say i was playing on my civ, i think ive put maybe 2 reports in on her over the years, both times it was due to either ooc toxcicity or ORP. 2 reports in many years now on the server. just two.

Why so few? is it because im not asset oriented or am just a better person? not really, its because my character doesnt really engage much in PvP. Therefore theres overall less conflict with other players and thus not many reports.

I think if we reshuffled the data another way it would clearly show a correlation of what type of character submits a report. and it would go:

1. Crims

2. Cops

3.civs/other

why? its not just about assets, thats the natural link of who engages in the most conflict. and particularly with crims because conflict on those type of characters feels alot more personal, due to how much effort has to go into acquiring and reacquiring their assets. cops come second as they too engage in alot of PVP but they dont lose assets. and civs go way down the list as they dont/shouldnt really engage much in PVP and are vibin.

So whilst the data is good, its not a direct cause and effect type deal. there are other factors.

 

[CalvinKlein]

2 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

The Data scrape is very impressive and does bring to light some interesting facts, but we also need to consider the human element. 

why do the same 4/5 orgs account for oh lets say 80% of the reports? because they are the ones engaging in the most unregulated PVP. Its only natural that those players account for most of the reports. 

Lets say i was playing on my civ, i think ive put maybe 2 reports in on her over the years, both times it was due to either ooc toxcicity or ORP. 2 reports in many years now on the server. just two.

Why so few? is it because im not asset oriented or am just a better person? not really, its because my character doesnt really engage much in PvP. Therefore theres overall less conflict with other players and thus not many reports.

I think if we reshuffled the data another way it would clearly show a correlation of what type of character submits a report. and it would go:

1. Crims

2. Cops

3.civs/other

why? its not just about assets, thats the natural link of who engages in the most conflict. and particularly with crims because conflict on those type of characters feels alot more personal, due to how much effort has to go into acquiring and reacquiring their assets. cops come second as they too engage in alot of PVP but they dont lose assets. and civs go way down the list as they dont/shouldnt really engage much in PVP and are vibin.

So whilst the data is good, its not a direct cause and effect type deal. there are other factors.

 

It’s also about which group has the mentality of “oh I lost so I need to make a revenge report” 

[Quietthecutie]

51 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

It’s also about which group has the mentality of “oh I lost so I need to make a revenge report” 

not even gonna get into revenge reports.

But the fact remains players who engage in move PVP will always have more reports for and against them, statistically that makes sense.

[Tomvd682]

On 9/3/2025 at 11:12 PM, Clank said:

Okay, if we want to continue to argue semantics. 
 

I will pay for a week vacation to a location of your choice! The only thing I ask of you is the following:

During your trip, you must pick a destination at or near a high crime rate location. You will then find someone in that violent city of your choice with a history of gun violence and violent gang affiliation in the United States and that person is armed with a firearm. Then you will begin insulting them. At no point will you say “I’m just kidding man” or you will forfeit any expenses paid on your trip. I will pay for your flight, room and expenses minus anything that comes from your interaction with this fella. All out of my own pocket. 
 

We will see how that adventure goes for you. I’ll even give you some suggestions on who and what neighborhoods you can go to if you agree!

I’m being dead serious and I look forward to you reaching out on discord so we can plan your free vacation trip! I will obviously vet the destination to make sure this is a proper agreement.

I'll take you up on that, together with @Phantas. We finna get strapped with gopros as well as insta 360's and talk all the smack to a tall hood mf like we Stackswopo. We were just wondering if drinks are included, hmu on Discord.

[Phantas]

Send me and @Tomvd682 to Philly and we robbing @airi on foenem and Lamron. Than we can go flex our new fits courtesy of @airi in the mean streets of Philly as we recreate a pregame MW2 lobby. 

Edited September 19, 2025 by Phantas

[Clank]

1 hour ago, Tomvd682 said:

I'll take you up on that, together with @Phantas. We finna get strapped with gopros as well as insta 360's and talk all the smack to a tall hood mf like we Stackswopo. We were just wondering if drinks are included, hmu on Discord.

 

29 minutes ago, Phantas said:

Send me and @Tomvd682 to Philly and we robbing @airi on foenem and Lamron. Than we can go flex our new fits courtesy of @airi in the mean streets of Philly as we recreate a pregame MW2 lobby.

I've reached out to both of you on discord

[KCAJ]

10 hours ago, Clank said:

 

I've reached out to both of you on discord

I will chip in if its live streamed.

[Aezeryst]

as someone who got a dm warning for shooting a cop who ignored demands and drove away with a 2stack car with weapons pulling up next to him and me hopping off a bike with a pdw aimed at them- i only naturally agree with this 
+1