Make fight POV's mandatory

[Freyster]

A lot of times we find ourselves in situations which end up in forum reports, considering the amount of people with unfair game advantages (cheaters included) i would find it more reasonable if people are required to have footage from fights, to prevent possible speculations and rumors they could debunk by simply always having footage.

While i understand it's not all about pvp, the server is based on gta and gangwars, it's a crucial part and i believe requiring footage of every single situation where you decide to shoot should be a reason for you to have footage if requested automatically, you should have the footage stored for 48h and then are good to delete it.

It would reduce cheaters massively and we can all agree noone likes having them against you or with you.

 

Thanks  

[Spizor]

bro my drive will explode if I have to record everytime I shoot, its 2tb and already running out of space

[hrxvey]

I've got to +1 this, to counter spizors point, make it so that you only have to keep povs for 24hrs after the fight, (will obviously have to make it so reports can only be made within 24hrs of the situation ocuring but I don't think that's a bad change anyway so that the situations are more fresh in your mind) This is an easy way to catch cheaters, and ensure that a good majority of reports have povs for them also. A way to ensure that people have pov of situations is to issue something like a week ban if pov is not provided (more leeway could be made for players who are newer to the server), that way it is not too harsh of a punishment, but it will ensure that people are inclined to have their pov on.

[HobGoblin]

+1 can be difficult to implement as there can be errors and video corruption but most of the time this won’t happen. 

[Quietthecutie]

Honestly at this stage there is no excuse to not have some kind of recording software running.

the software at this point is as unintrusive at it can be. most software allow you to delete and upload as you go so drive capacity should not be an issue.

no ones saying you have to provide POV at 4k quality, but you should be able to produce something if you are asked to. 

if you have a 2TB hard drive filled with clips then golly gosh thats a you problem for not freeing up space. i have about 20 gigs alloted to clips i need to save and so long as i mange it thats plenty. take some responsibility as a player and its never a problem.

[isBrainDed]

Forcing everyone to record won't help with people cheating and there are other ways that can be implemented on the serverside to detect the cheats that forced recording would show as well.

There is also a difference between saving recording for the whole shootout situation or just the last 5-10 minutes which is the standard. Not everyone has TB or 100's GB of space so having to clear that daily, to weekly is just another nuisance and would get abused.

 

Instead, there should be better checks in place when it comes to players and what are they doing, especially when it comes to new players or players with low xp. For example rolling labs and stacking kills when you have 50k exp should put you on a watchlist and then have admins be actually active on them.

 

Experience for the player should be seamless and it's up to staff and developers to pick up the slack.

[AnakinB]

8 hours ago, Freyster said:

A lot of times we find ourselves in situations which end up in forum reports, considering the amount of people with unfair game advantages (cheaters included) i would find it more reasonable if people are required to have footage from fights, to prevent possible speculations and rumors they could debunk by simply always having footage.

While i understand it's not all about pvp, the server is based on gta and gangwars, it's a crucial part and i believe requiring footage of every single situation where you decide to shoot should be a reason for you to have footage if requested automatically, you should have the footage stored for 48h and then are good to delete it.

It would reduce cheaters massively and we can all agree noone likes having them against you or with you.

 

Thanks  

-1 wouldn't be able to hide my cheats

[Payn]

Are you saying to record all of your fights, regardless of whether you are asked to save POV or not? Or just to record everything with the possibility that the fight could end in a report? 

Would you say that if you are not requested to save POV following the fight (maybe give a period of 10 mins following the end of the fight) then you can delete or do what you please with the footage after this period. Because if people are fighting continuously, stacking up footage can be quite demanding for those with small storage , and constantly recording can heavily impact FPS.

 

I understand the point of the suggestion however just a few drawbacks to imposing this as an official rule.

[Requiem]

I agree with the concept, however, I would modify the suggestion to require POV if you were requested to save it. If you don't have POV after being reasonably requested to save it, then a warning/punishment should be issued. This way, we still have the current system in place where you can be prepared for a report, but you won't have to save it for every single shooting scenario. 

[SquirtleSquad]

15 hours ago, Freyster said:

A lot of times we find ourselves in situations which end up in forum reports, considering the amount of people with unfair game advantages (cheaters included) i would find it more reasonable if people are required to have footage from fights, to prevent possible speculations and rumors they could debunk by simply always having footage.

While i understand it's not all about pvp, the server is based on gta and gangwars, it's a crucial part and i believe requiring footage of every single situation where you decide to shoot should be a reason for you to have footage if requested automatically, you should have the footage stored for 48h and then are good to delete it.

It would reduce cheaters massively and we can all agree noone likes having them against you or with you.

 

Thanks  

While having evidence is fantastic, I think that it is highly unrealistic to expect players in this game to be able to be able to save footage from their interactions. If you are going to be making a forum report, then it is your responsibility to inform those involved to save their POV's in a timely manner.

We should not expect people to have 10+ GB of storage space for footage, or an ever ending stream through OBS/Streamlabs from their day. Not everyone has a great PC, not every one has copious amounts of storage on their hard drive, nor does everyone run graphic cards that are powerful enough to not interfere with their gaming experience. I think forcing this is not something that should be done at all.

The other thing we need to take in account is location. Not everywhere in the world has fibre internet, or gigabyte or high speeds. So uploading longer videos may not be feasible for them. 

In an ideal world, yes absolutely I agree with you. However, we don't live in that ideal world. Something that could be looked into is an implementation server side where a POV can be made and saved for mod+ to fetch, but that will be a massive server strain. Thinking akin to Valve's Demo Viewer for Counter-Strike 2.

Reference of average user hardware per Steam March 2024

 

29 minutes ago, Requiem said:

I agree with the concept, however, I would modify the suggestion to require POV if you were requested to save it. If you don't have POV after being reasonably requested to save it, then a warning/punishment should be issued. This way, we still have the current system in place where you can be prepared for a report, but you won't have to save it for every single shooting scenario. 

Regarding punishing players for not providing their POV, I don't foresee there being a world where this will be done. This, for the reasons I outlined above, is unfair to that player. Is it annoying that we can't get all sides of the story, yes, but that's what appeals are for.

[KCAJ]

Sorry I can’t participate in your RP robbery as I don’t record my game now leave me to cook

[HobGoblin]

It should not be a case of saving if someone tells you, its a lot easier to not see the pm in hectic situations. It either is forced for everyone or it isn't.

 

 

[Spizor]

13 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

Honestly at this stage there is no excuse to not have some kind of recording software running.

the software at this point is as unintrusive at it can be. most software allow you to delete and upload as you go so drive capacity should not be an issue.

no ones saying you have to provide POV at 4k quality, but you should be able to produce something if you are asked to. 

if you have a 2TB hard drive filled with clips then golly gosh thats a you problem for not freeing up space. i have about 20 gigs alloted to clips i need to save and so long as i mange it thats plenty. take some responsibility as a player and its never a problem.

Please explain what you mean when you say "at this stage"? Not everyone has 40 or 30 or even 20 series cards to be recording and clipping every single time they shoot someone. A lot of people can barely run the game, let alone be recording as well.

Again, not everyone will be willing to clip, let a 15-20 minute video recording upload as they are also playing the game. Even for people with faster upload speeds, that would honestly just be ridiculous with the amount of fights that people get into daily.

It should not whatsoever be a "responsibility" for a player to clear their drive to play on this server. I should not be forced to constantly clear my drive purely to have clips just from eclipse on there because someone thought I broke a rule or was using cheats.

All in all, I personally can record my game and upload footage as needed all throughout the day. But, even if everyone was able to do so, I still don't think this is a good suggestion.

[Jett_J]

According to half the server population they live in Tatooine and their computers run off firewood and electricity generated from manual labor so I'm not sure it's feasible.

It's not a bad suggestion though.

[AnakinB]

3 hours ago, Jett_J said:

According to half the server population they live in Tatooine and their computers run off firewood and electricity generated from manual labor so I'm not sure it's feasible.

DID NOT NO U WERE BOUT THAT 

[Pazz]

I don't think this is a fair or feasible expectation or rule to force onto a majority of the player base to catch a specific group of players in actions that should be investigated and integrated into the anti-cheat by the developers and administrative staff. I can appreciate that while the intention behind this suggestion is entirely well-intended and pure, it feels like it's taking away responsibility from management and developers and instead passing it off to players to sort themselves, which frankly is a far too common thing on this server.

 

19 hours ago, isBrainDed said:

Experience for the player should be seamless and it's up to staff and developers to pick up the slack.

I concur with this.

[Kjaer]

-1

with most of the people in this thread, I like the concept but this does nothing for tailored cheats which specifically output a low res cheat free render; thus giving these players a false negative when they go "look no cheats, my 800x600 slideshow is clean!!".

If we're being painfully obvious - ECRP staff just kinda sucks at detecting/deciding on unfair play even when mechanical movement is obviously shown in POV's and following up on players that consistently do not provide POV's / edited POV's (Oh sorry, my HDD was full the past 20 times, mbmbmb, or I use Nvidia and was watching Netflix in my other tab even though that issues been fixed for half a year).

I wonder how much less bullshit posturing and framing would happen in the reports section if we enforced true no edits 5 minute POV's. POV less than 5 minutes? sorry, its denied.

Maybe some internal review? Specific team that handles cheating reports instead of just a random support staff & moderator that's next in queue?

I dont know.... - I think there's lots that can be done, but not something thats easily circumvented / already circumvented. Technically, anytime you're involved in Deathmatching you're already required to prove the context and reasoning so imo, OP suggestion is already a rule that's ignored.

[Freyster]

8 minutes ago, Kjaer said:

If we're being painfully obvious - ECRP staff just kinda sucks at detecting/deciding on unfair play even when mechanical movement is obviously shown in POV's and following up on players that consistently do not provide POV's / edited POV's (Oh sorry, my HDD was full the past 20 times, mbmbmb, or I use Nvidia and was watching Netflix in my other tab even though that issues been fixed for half a year).

I do not agree with this statement. First of all, Netflix and Shadowplay still correlate with one another. That's simply the issue many of us face. (I tried it and it still doesn't properly work; it shuts off a lot due to copyright, just like Amazon!) 

Secondly, you are saying that every single person sucks at deciding on unfair gameplay when I am quite literally saying it would be a lot easier to see people break the rules, cheat, or abuse glitches when they have to provide the footage or at least save their POV from fights where a rulebreak is assumed or investigated. As I mentioned, this is purely about shooting or having a shootout. This isn't about recording 24 hours of your game; you are not constantly utilizing a weapon in the game and shouldn't technically be. However, this has been taken widely out of context as the main focus goes to the fights and situations where guns and shootings are in play.

[Kjaer]

2 minutes ago, Freyster said:

I do not agree with this statement. First of all, Netflix and Shadowplay still correlate with one another. That's simply the issue many of us face. (I tried it and it still doesn't properly work; it shuts off a lot due to copyright, just like Amazon!) 

Secondly, you are saying that every single person sucks at deciding on unfair gameplay when I am quite literally saying it would be a lot easier to see people break the rules, cheat, or abuse glitches when they have to provide the footage or at least save their POV from fights where a rulebreak is assumed or investigated. As I mentioned, this is purely about shooting or having a shootout. This isn't about recording 24 hours of your game; you are not constantly utilizing a weapon in the game and shouldn't technically be. However, this has been taken widely out of context as the main focus goes to the fights and situations where guns and shootings are in play.

If you are not recording your entire desktop, but app specific, it works just fine. And you are no longer required to use Desktop, to capture Rage. This is what I am referring to. (I tried it too)

You are correct, I am saying in general from what I have seen in this server since 2021, ECRP Staff Decisions on Cheating Reports usually errs on caution and dismisses cheating when evidence is fairly damning. Afterward, what is flagged and what measures are taken and how long the player is aspec'd and followed for, who knows, that's not seen to the player base; However, I am not expecting a team of volunteers who already pour hours of their time into the server to be experts in Anti-Cheat without personal learning, previous experience or training provided to you. Please don't take my statement as an insult.

Thirdly, your suggestion really at the end of the day is already implemented by the Deathmatching rules (imo), which is really what I was trying to outline in the post, but its not really enforced because general context can be established in group type situations from different POV's, so if someone doesnt have it; its kinda (shrugs); which is why I disagree with it. People saying they need to keep TB's clear, I really do not understand; because situations are reported within 48 hours. So you purge the files as soon as theyre that old; I cannot fathom anything who is here to RP who can shoot so many people in 48 hours that they need to curate an entire drive around such volume.

I think something else than OP could be more productive, especially when like I said, lots of people can provide clean POV, meanwhile theyre actually ESP'ing. People donate to buy things like cars, houses. It is not unfathomable that they pay for the higher end cheats that let them get away with it; it is quite realistic to think that especially the weight that some people put on their interactions here

[Nathaniel Shenheizer]

On 4/24/2024 at 10:46 PM, Kjaer said:

If you are not recording your entire desktop, but app specific, it works just fine. And you are no longer required to use Desktop, to capture Rage. This is what I am referring to. (I tried it too)

You are correct, I am saying in general from what I have seen in this server since 2021, ECRP Staff Decisions on Cheating Reports usually errs on caution and dismisses cheating when evidence is fairly damning. Afterward, what is flagged and what measures are taken and how long the player is aspec'd and followed for, who knows, that's not seen to the player base; However, I am not expecting a team of volunteers who already pour hours of their time into the server to be experts in Anti-Cheat without personal learning, previous experience or training provided to you. Please don't take my statement as an insult.

Thirdly, your suggestion really at the end of the day is already implemented by the Deathmatching rules (imo), which is really what I was trying to outline in the post, but its not really enforced because general context can be established in group type situations from different POV's, so if someone doesnt have it; its kinda (shrugs); which is why I disagree with it. People saying they need to keep TB's clear, I really do not understand; because situations are reported within 48 hours. So you purge the files as soon as theyre that old; I cannot fathom anything who is here to RP who can shoot so many people in 48 hours that they need to curate an entire drive around such volume.

I think something else than OP could be more productive, especially when like I said, lots of people can provide clean POV, meanwhile theyre actually ESP'ing. People donate to buy things like cars, houses. It is not unfathomable that they pay for the higher end cheats that let them get away with it; it is quite realistic to think that especially the weight that some people put on their interactions here

I personally use windowed mode since I stream, and play as LEO half the time so I need to constantly tab out. Being in windowed mode, it usually records the desktop, and Netflix and other copyright protected streaming services block out the recording software. Even if you aren't watching something on Netflix, just having the webpage open causes this issue. this is also dependant on the browser you are using (Chrome and majority of chromium based browsers such as Opera do this)

 

I'm gonna say -1 for the rule for multiple reasons.

1. as a Leo, you get into a lot of shootouts in a single day, I don't care to dedicate 100s of gigabytes of storage for this.

2. I have my recording intervals set to 15 minutes which is significantly longer then what most people save (avg of 5 minutes) , I cba saving my footage manually every 15 minutes, especially when some scenes // shootouts last longer then this. my primary focus is on the RP.

3. I live out in the boonies, and my internet isn't always the best. Even if I wanted to upload every single shootout I get into, my internet would suffer majorly. I get like 20 mbps upload at best, and to upload a 3gb 15 minute clip, it would take about 30 minutes. This would cause connection issues for me in game.

4. Alot of people only play GTA, and either play on laptops or poorly specd computers. They can't not handle playing, recording and saving the footage all at once.

[surg3yy]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:48 PM, Freyster said:

A lot of times we find ourselves in situations which end up in forum reports, considering the amount of people with unfair game advantages (cheaters included) i would find it more reasonable if people are required to have footage from fights, to prevent possible speculations and rumors they could debunk by simply always having footage.

While i understand it's not all about pvp, the server is based on gta and gangwars, it's a crucial part and i believe requiring footage of every single situation where you decide to shoot should be a reason for you to have footage if requested automatically, you should have the footage stored for 48h and then are good to delete it.

It would reduce cheaters massively and we can all agree noone likes having them against you or with you.

 

Thanks  

not a problem for me but like half the server come from areas where they cant get good pcs and really cant get pov not fair to discriminate against them by forcing it. better solution would be stopping this report first mentality most the server has. 

[Payn]

I wouldnt say there is any issue around this at all currently. If you feel something was reportable in the fight, you tell them there and then so they can clip the footage if necessary. If youre not told to save pov, and you feel everything went how it should, youre not going to save your footage because why would you, it just takes up space you dont need it to. Then having to store for 48 hours? 

Better off just keeping it how it is, if youre asked to save pov, save it. If you are not asked to save pov, you dont need to. 

Your responsibility to tell someone during the situation or just as its concluded that you want their footage for a report, rather than just expecting people to save footage which a majority of the time will just end up being deleted anyway without use.

[hrxvey]

2 hours ago, Payn said:

I wouldnt say there is any issue around this at all currently. If you feel something was reportable in the fight, you tell them there and then so they can clip the footage if necessary. If youre not told to save pov, and you feel everything went how it should, youre not going to save your footage because why would you, it just takes up space you dont need it to. Then having to store for 48 hours? 

Better off just keeping it how it is, if youre asked to save pov, save it. If you are not asked to save pov, you dont need to. 

Your responsibility to tell someone during the situation or just as its concluded that you want their footage for a report, rather than just expecting people to save footage which a majority of the time will just end up being deleted anyway without use.

Its a good idea on paper, however lets say someone is cheating and you ask them to save pov, they can just hit you with the "no storage" or "nvidia is off" every time, this just essentially means people are able to get away with cheating more often and when the server doesn't have a PC checking system it is impossible to know if someone is really cheating without their POV.

[heelsoul]

Easy +1, it would make staffs life easier and make the reporting party get their answer quicker.

[Cyberinho]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:31 AM, Freyster said:

I do not agree with this statement. First of all, Netflix and Shadowplay still correlate with one another. That's simply the issue many of us face. (I tried it and it still doesn't properly work; it shuts off a lot due to copyright, just like Amazon!) 

Secondly, you are saying that every single person sucks at deciding on unfair gameplay when I am quite literally saying it would be a lot easier to see people break the rules, cheat, or abuse glitches when they have to provide the footage or at least save their POV from fights where a rulebreak is assumed or investigated. As I mentioned, this is purely about shooting or having a shootout. This isn't about recording 24 hours of your game; you are not constantly utilizing a weapon in the game and shouldn't technically be. However, this has been taken widely out of context as the main focus goes to the fights and situations where guns and shootings are in play.

I do not agree with Your statement. To be fair, ECRP staff does suck a little bit on actually investigating cheaters. But, I completely agree with Brainded - the checks on this server is just absolutely abysmal. I wouldn't be so fast as to only blame it on the staff, but more so on the devs- they are the ones, who should actually pick up the slack. As for the recording, it is laughingly easy, as somebody already mentioned it, just have the Cheating software put out cheat-free recordings. Therefore, they would not only be useless if the cheater has atleast 3 braincells, but also hurt the rest of the server's population. I have NVidia 4050 and every time I turn on GeForce, I am left with 50 FPS. Sorry, not sorry, but I ain't gonna play with that. So -1 to this suggestion and +1 to better checks (and maybe actually there is some truth to creating an actual cheating specialized team) (or copy what Minecraft Factions were doing and do screenshare testing :))) )