Make it non-rp for "gang bangers" to make petty ia's

[IAmTurtle]

I think it is quite stupid for harden criminals to be making IA's because a cop tells them to fuck off or is rude to them on a scene as an IA would be drawing more attention to themselves than they really should be wanting for a cop. They really only should be using it for OOC IA's. 

[Homast]

I partially agree, But I believe it should be more of a faction specific regulation depending on what kind of criminal organization you're in.

If you're a Hood Gang Banger, IA isn't gunna be the way you go about it.

If you're a white collar criminal who isn't one of the violent types, IA is definitely cleaner, safer, and equally or more satisfying than killing the Officer who you IA report.

 

[FAustin]

While I agree that its stupid for "Hardened criminals" to make IA reports with their names and whatever other information they will be giving away. In a real world scenario a criminal would possibly stalk a cop and murder them/intimidate them and their family to get a point across. While in the roleplay sense that would be a rule break in terms of Deathmatching. So this post is a 50/50 really as both sides would have a good argument.

[Icarus]

Agreed to an extent, if you have a group known for killing cops then yeah, making an IA seems odd.

But in a lot of cases, crims aren't just a one-sided "shoot cops" group. Each character is different to that group and to force them to abide by this rule and essentially force them down the route of murder is silly. A lot of times the best way to get back at a cop IC is to catch them lacking and breaking protocol and using it against them. In a lot of cases, it makes sense to hinder a cops career ICly over killing them.

[alexalex303]

This is a symptom of a problem, not a problem in of itself.

Back in the days, if a cop was being disrespectful to the wrong person, the cop would die. 

The fact that people now find IAs to be the only recourse speaks to the options people feel they have to deal with cops ICly.

[Harveyyy]

If criminals can retaliate by kidnapping or killing the cop, then they wouldn't be submitting IA reports. But they find IA reports the only way to actually do something to the cop, as other options aren't allowed due to server rules.

I agree with you that it does sound weird, but there are no other options on the table.

[Herbo]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

This is a symptom of a problem, not a problem in of itself

What Alex said is 100% true, this isn’t a problem itself, it’s just a symptom of a problem within the server. 

It is quite difficult to get DM rights or even kidnapping rights against cops that come with actual RP. I’d say around 75-95% of cop killing, cops being held at gunpoint, or cops being trunked is as a result of them trying to arrest someone and the person pulls a gun and shoots or something like that, instead of an ongoing situation where they fully have DM rights to kill a cop or kidnap them. 

Additionally, I’d say about 80% of the time, kidnapping, killing, or shooting at cops is way more trouble then it’s worth, especially for gangs. Now this is not something I’m complaining about as it makes sense, if we shoot at cops or anything and even one person gets caught, for the next few days we have to be extra careful about anything as cops are on our ass. 

Now I added that last part in to just explain why a lot of times, criminals will just do an IA, as it allows them to get “revenge” on a cop for being a dickhead without them suffering any real IC consequences on their part or their gangs part.

Also, like Homast said, there’s a good number of gangs that internally regulate the matter of making IAs and talking to police. Gangs will kick you from the gang for doing these things as it’s against their lore, so it’s not like every criminal in the server just makes IAs
 

 

[KrisBoyd]

MAYBE

Edited May 8, 2023 by KrisBoyd

[ArcAngel]

I agree that it doesn't make sense for ANY criminal to make an IA report, however, As others have stated, IRL, you'd be stalked, harassed, injured or murdered if you disrespected someone, but in ECRP, you respawn and it happens over and over.

IA for me is the police, policing the police. If someone is not following internal IC rules, they should be held accountable and with script limitations and respawns and stuff, this is the best way to go about it to ensure the person/s do not behave in the same way again!

[Bala]

The realism argument doesn't hold up because how criminals interact with cops in real-life and in Eclipse is very, very different. Criminals in real life will do their upmost to avoid police. In Eclipse, at times, it feels like they actively seek their attention.

A realistic portrayal of negative cop-criminal dynamics in real life would lead to a weighted outcome in the favour of law enforcement. Accepting that the law is the law and the system is weighted in the cops favour is a very realistic outcome but that isn't gunna happen here.

That doesn't work on Eclipse because getting a "win" means more than being realistic with the RP. If you can get a cop into shit over something where you've taken an L, then people are always going to want to push that button. 

It is what it is. 

[AnakinB]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:27 AM, IAmTurtle said:

I think it is quite stupid for harden criminals to be making IA's because a cop tells them to fuck off or is rude to them on a scene as an IA would be drawing more attention to themselves than they really should be wanting for a cop. They really only should be using it for OOC IA's. 

ic actions have ic consequences 

[Alannn]

-1

[TheCactus]

I agree that a guy from the hood that kills people would not bother with IA reports but at the same time they would not kill the cop either. You do realise that we're talking about taking on a person that is not defenseless and doing it wrong could lead to a life sentence or death.
You would certainly make him pay by beating him up, property damage/stealing/shaving/steal clothes or robbing him but killing someone over a couple of words is strictly part of this server's mentality:
someone calls you a retard, you aim a gun at him and go "get the fuck out of the car", they drive off, stop the car, pull their gun and a shootout starts. That's ECRP gameplay.

[Viropath]

Absolutely in support of this suggestion. Making use of Internal Affairs reports when it doesn't suit the character because out-of-character that individual is upset at the outcome of roleplay is abusive.

It is high time there was a clamp-down on using out of character motives to force characters to file reports they would not submit in reality.

It seems obvious to state that just because we are upset at the police officer and would file a report does not mean that our character would necessarily be; There is even less chance that the character would file an Internal Affairs report unless they were already that way inclined.

Filing police complaints is a demonstrably serious task in reality, having filed more than one myself. It is not the sort of thing that would be attempted by career criminals who would undoubtedly be nervous of the process due to the scrutiny it would bring upon themselves and the level of interaction it requires with a police force.

When filing live complaints police require full names, addresses and detailed accounts including background checks on individuals involved and their prior dealing with police. If you're well known as a 'wanted' criminal, filing in depth paperwork with law enforcement is not a realistic style of role play in anything but the most difficult of circumstances.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Viropath
Provided further reasoning

[Nubbsauce]

I think it should depend on the type of criminal the player is or group they are a part of.

If the group is just some "Clapper" gang that rolls up, runs their mouths to get a reaction, shoots their guns, gets into shoot outs with cops often, etc, then an IA should just be thrown out. While they still CAN submit an IA report, it should be up to the department to run the reporting party's name and check with their internal resources to find out if they are affiliated with a gang, etc. That way, they can still make their report, but because of their affiliations, it will be thrown out ICLY.

Now if they were part of a more organized crime group, that was more about strategic play, and avoiding cops as much as possible, then sure, submit that IA report and see if you can get that cop punished for offending you. Since your name/group wont be as "Red Flagged" as the ones that shoot at cops more, it is more likely to be accepted.

 

When it comes to kidnapping cops... That is a whole other ballgame and ruleset that needs to be corrected.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Nubbsauce

[Harveyyy]

13 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

If the group is just some "Clapper" gang that rolls up, runs their mouths to get a reaction, shoots their guns, gets into shoot outs with cops often, etc, then an IA should just be thrown out.

This wouldn't make sense ICly.

 

14 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

That way, they can still make their report, but because of their affiliations, it will be thrown out ICLY.

Same thing. Internal affairs cannot ignore IA reports against their own officers, unless they are corrupt/have corruption permissions from their faction leader.

[Quietthecutie]

Totally disagree with this tbh... 

The IA system exists as a way for LEOs to be accountable on the job, a job they may do through multiple lives of their character. whilst yes IC actions have IC consequences, and a gang may get back at a cop for acting out of line in a singular life, they can just respawn, and get back on the job with the same outlook with little to no consequence as to how they conduct themselves as the NLRs dictates the crim must now stop targeting them. the IA system is a check and balance to IC abuse of power. taking it OOC should always be a last resort.

LEOs are already pretty much a law onto themselves. no one but their supervisors holds any sway over them so its important those people are icly kept in the loop. and to say that a "hardened criminal" would not know how to submit one does not make any sense either as any time some kind of misconduct against an LEO is brought up icly, all anyone from JB/DOC/MD can do is say "you can file an IA report." and guide them through the process, because IC they cant do anything else about it that would have a lasting effect. shit many times during an arrest if it gets heated the LEO will just say "yeah, file an IA report against me then" and that sorta tells you all you need to know...

In summary IAs are an important part of the IC check and balance system and restricting them from certain characters would totally defeat their sole purpose. the very character you are trying to restrict them from may be the people with the most pressing grievances. yes these characters might be "Hardened Criminals" but they are not idiots, and if they are happy with the extra scrutiny thats their call, not yours. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[Payn]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:27 AM, IAmTurtle said:

I think it is quite stupid for harden criminals to be making IA's because a cop tells them to fuck off or is rude to them on a scene as an IA would be drawing more attention to themselves than they really should be wanting for a cop. They really only should be using it for OOC IA's. 

If a cop is like just awful and deserving of an IA i’m gonna IA them doesn’t matter if i’m crim or not

[Payn]

On 5/8/2023 at 10:30 AM, alexalex303 said:

Back in the days, if a cop was being disrespectful to the wrong person, the cop would die. 

if people kill a cop for soemthing they want to IA over they just gonna get a DM punishment 

[brentplaystv]

While I get where you're coming from this is a bad example of ECRP trying to embrace realism.

Cops irl get shot and targeted all the time for things they say and the way they act towards criminal gangs, especially the cartels.
Here in Eclipse you get dm punishment and ejected from the server so you can't really use this as a case for realism.
Cops have too much power icly to have no repercussions other than the annoyance of having to respawn and get everything for free again...hence ia reports


Note: unsure why the hell this thread showed up for me making me think it was new
sorry 4 the necro

Edited October 9, 2023 by brentplaystv