The Current System of Requesting Alt RP / Communicating on Status's of Alt RP Needs a Revamp.

[checkky]

Hello Eclipse Community!

As for most players know who engage in criminal roleplay on this server, for all official status factions, players can reach out to Faction Management and make a request for Alternative Roleplay (Alt Rp). For those who don't know what Alt RP is, it's simply asking ECRP Staff for assistance, asking for them to play a role in the RP to add more aspects to the experience. This can include aspects of roleplay that cannot sometimes be done by regular players such as: driving a money truck, flying a plane in, and many more. However requesting these Alternative Roleplay scenarios can take months to approve, or even get a response for. I feel this is deterring for players who work countless days/hours to make their faction as fun as they can for their other members, but don't have the communication between Faction Management constantly to assure them some kind of interesting roleplay is to come for their faction. I have some solutions listed below to aid this issue.

Problems:

• Lack of communication between players and FM on an Alt RP request and the status of it.
• (In my opinion) There is a lack of motivation for players to even send out Alt RP requests due to the low communication there is with FM.
• There is an uneven response rate/approval rate between players and FM for Alt RP requests.

Solutions:

• Add a position within the ECRP Staff for this. (Ex: Head of Requests/Assistant Head of Requests)
• Create a form for official status factions to fill out, to better aid FM to understand the fundamentals of a player's Alt RP request.
• Make approving Alt RP requests a role within the "Events Team".
  • OR
• Make a "Requests Team" for such requests.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Checkky

[Harley]

+1

[Jorge Compass]

+1

[NexonBG]

+1

[Ash]

This fundamentally is an issue you have with faction services. First port of call is through your guides and if they are not giving you the communication you expect then reach out to @Jellayor @Bakmeel who run faction services to give feedback about the team that's meant to be assisting you. 

That being said I will raise the issue regardless as a topic of conversation between faction services.

[skeletee]

+1.

I definitely resonate with the fact that a system needs to be put in place to make sure that alternative RP requests are processed fairly, efficiently, and to ensure that the RP produced is good quality. It is very time consuming to write and plan RP, as I'm sure it is for staff to support players in carrying the RP out. For what looks like a simple request, it may require 4 different staff members, which is 4 staff members that can no longer assist with reports or carry out other administrative tasks for the server for the 1, 2 hours they are helping a faction.

However, the previous system was to submit a form to any Senior Administrator, and through both Senior Administrators, I would receive a response within 2 days. The new system now has more steps, which is slower and more demotivating when you are not really sure what is going on or if the application is being looked at or forgotten. 

I can only speak from my experience, but I can definitely say that a more open communication approach - what stage the alternative RP application is at, when it's being looked at, how long are we expected to wait - would be more motivating from a requesting party's point of view.

Maybe a form can be put in place, which would ask some fundamental questions. I'd probably limit this to official factions only to mediate workload for staff. For example:

1. What is the backstory leading up to your request?

2. What do you require from staff (i.e. what rules do you need bypassed, what do you need spawned, what characters do you need roleplayed and what main characteristics are required in terms of backstory/personality/ethnicity/model, do you require jail time to be re-adjusted or fees to be covered if it makes IC sense?)

3. What outcomes are you expecting for your RP?

This would then be reviewed by said team or a group of staff members, then relayed back to the reporting player with questions and suggestions to make the RP even better.

EDIT: I would like to say that I have had experiences with specific staff members where I have been so excited to share my ideas with them and feel really supported with their help. I think how people feel about their ideas is one of the most important things about carrying them out and there should be more focus in fostering and protecting this creativity, which does mean a little bit more communication. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Lola

[Aldarine]

To be honest I’m quite confused reading this as it does come off as if there have been more requests that have been put in. In total there have been less than 5 submitted - all of which get forwarded as appropriate and then it is left in the hands of senior staff. Where they go from there, the time to review, follow up questions is again, in the hands of senior staff to then be relayed back with the updates. One cannot assume that special requests will be immediately approved as it needs to be fair, senior staff are busy, there may be other things not immediately thought of and now followed up on. Can the process be fine tuned? Yes, every process can, however, to paint the picture in a very different light than what it actually is, is a bit disheartening. I for one can personally say my own request took over a month for approval and I simply waited. Was it bothersome? Sure, but I also understood that it was a request to break the rules and get special permissions.

OP, your faction in particular has actually had the most staff assisted things than any other faction and that has happened by skirting around processes that are being attempted to put in place. If more attempts were actually made for the process then more refining of the process can be done. You cannot adjust something to make it better when people aren’t properly trying it in the first place. I can say that I have spoken to @Jellay at length about the process with experience of my own by going through the system in efforts to get something more concrete that is good for all. The only way it can be improved is it there is proper feedback and the tracking to back it up which again, we have none of.

[Harley]

@Aldarine I don't think OPs intention is to complain about his own personal experience, but more a gap in the current structure that clearly a lot of people have seen, and a suggestion on how things can be improved. I don't think he intended to insult how it currently is, but more as community insight/input. Waiting months for a response on how a request is going is very disheartening for the people who put days of effort into these creative RP opps which honestly bring nothing but variety, creativity and overall more positive experiences for everyone involved into the server.

[Aldarine]

@Harley While I do understand that, the point still remains the same. There is a process already in place which is basically the same as what OP has mentioned yet the number of factions who have utilized it is slim to none. Without the submissions and attempted utilization, how can we advocate for something to improve? The process was made to give better and faster avenues of opportunity and communication. Much more people are involved who can pester for follow up and yet the submissions haven’t come. The amount of access is exponentially more than it has been in the past but there is absolutely no way we, on the staff and Faction Services side, can push for more adjustments if when asked what has failed, we have no answers or examples.

[Harley]

@Aldarine I think one thing you can take from this suggestion without anyone using the current service is the fact that it takes too long for even a response, and as a member of the community who has been in contact with Staff before, you're made to feel ashamed for pestering staff or anyone handling your request, meaning you're too afraid to ask for an update, and if you do get an update, the updates are vague and disheartening. I think a "Requests Team" is a great idea, takes one thing off the already very full plate of Faction Services and puts it into the responsibilites of another team with less on their plate!  

[Aldarine]

@Harley I’ve got a list of a few suggestions and implementations that I do hope will ease burdens and show improvement. In the meantime I’d like to see more submissions with the current system so we can have solid grounding to stand on for said improvements and see where things can be better. I will always encourage submissions and do my best to push things forward where I can.

[skeletee]

I've had conversations with other players where they don't quite realise how much they can do with the help of staff, so maybe there could be a focus on promoting alternative RP as something that is actually a real, plausible possibility. At the minute, there is no written definition of what alternative RP even is and what we can do, so this might be a good start. 

I think that this responsibility - planning, hosting, forwarding alternative RP ideas - falls to the faction leaders, since they should be ensuring that the faction is constantly moving forward in terms of RP, lore, and story enrichment. I personally recommend that guides sit down with faction leaders of their respective factions to discuss what alternative RP is and isn't (e.g. it's not just "rewards" and items being spawned in, it's not just a get-out-of-jail-free card), what is a reasonable ask from staff, what is unreasonable, expectations, and the actual procedure in place for current requests, give faction leaders ideas etc. This will assist in transparency, keeping faction leaders informed so that they can help members of their own faction when they have ideas, as well as make them feel more comfortable and less burdened to approach staff about their ideas. This can then be forwarded to faction members (via. voice chat, announcements, new discord channel specifically for alternative RP requests).

By doing this, maybe it will increase the amounts of alternative RP requests coming in, which will consequently help in the understanding of what can make the current system better, as mentioned by @Aldarine .

Edited February 18, 2022 by Lola

[Ash]

3 hours ago, Lola said:

I think that this responsibility - planning, hosting, forwarding alternative RP ideas - falls to the faction leaders

I, and I think the rest of FS also believe this is the case. The rest of this post is more anecdotal from my experiences with the 10+ factions I've assisted over the last year and a half.

As for the bit about sitting down with faction leaders, I think right now at least for the factions I assist, we wait for them to come to us with an idea and then we'll have a discussion about what's possible, what's not, what's questionable etc and go through those details specific to their idea and usually help them form a request. I personally don't pre-emptively say whether something is or isn't allowed and personally think they should have an idea first and then tune the details during or after discussion when bringing it up.

Personally I think I've made it clear to my groups that they can literally @ me in their faction high command channel with queries exactly like this as that's the whole point of me being there so it's definitely not a burden.

It is 100% on leaders to communicate what they want with the rest of their faction though, and for them to be the go-between for all the other members and staff for things like that.
Totally agree though that we can do some more from our side in terms of giving nudges like "hey you know you can do XYZ right if you wanna form an idea and get back to us" and something I'll be doing more.

3 hours ago, Lola said:

This can then be forwarded to faction members (via. voice chat, announcements, new discord channel specifically for alternative RP requests).

The main point though is communication, which is a 2-way thing and why at large I disagree with points in the initial "problems" section, is that general members wouldn't feel like there's lack of communication if faction leaders communicated what they talked with FS for with their members (or vice versa in terms of asking). But I'll be taking some of the feedback of this thread and having more dialogue on the topic with my factions so they're aware of opportunities available to them and that they communicate progress etc to members.

[Aldarine]

I will definitely echo what @Lola and @DrPathetic have stated - a lot of it is on the shoulders of the faction leaders. Throughout my time within Faction Services, we have had a considerable amount of communication with questions/responses being attended to typically within a day if not within minutes/hours depending on the time and the depth of the question. During our faction meetings, especially when given new factions, my team in particular talk about roleplay requests and how doors open when official status is achieved. Following receiving official status, this is once more echoed to give insight on expectations, standards and opportunities. If this information is not relayed to the rest of the faction then factions should potentially have more OOC meetings to discuss internally and come up with ideas that adhere to the faction's lore that are not always spawn/win-centric and instead are promoting expanded roleplay opportunities. Ultimately, roleplay requests (what people like to call 'alternative roleplay' aka 'alt rp') are really only for circumstances where deviation and/or special spawns are being requested. A lot can already be done simply by roleplaying and requires no special permission. If you have a thought for something fun and want a few staff members to participate for immersion sake and slap on a few PEDs, let your leadership know, they can relay it and the team would be more than happy to participate as time allows.

That said, one of the things I am not a fan of is spoon-feeding factions things they should do - the factions themselves need to be more proactive in thinking and getting creative. I know @Lola for one has this in the bag. We, as FS, are definitely here to guide and encourage but factions have a responsibility to do a considerable amount of work. If the creativity dries up, I tend to give 'homework' by presenting thought provoking questions to spark some ideas but if I were to give specific ideas then the faction isn't doing much thought on their own which I believe is one of the most important aspects of having, building and growing a faction. This shows longevity in the faction and its members as a collective and truth be told, thus far, factions have been doing incredibly well at thinking outside of the box to which I'm immensely proud of them for.

At the end of it, can systems be refined for more timely review of these overarching large requests? Yes of course and in full transparency I've finalized a spreadsheet to do just this which is being reviewed. In the meantime, faction leadership should communicate more with their members about ideas and relay those ideas to FS to see where we can input/help as needed. Communication can expand all around and things can be better if everybody works a little more.

[checkky]

Bump

Still haven't seen any kind implementation or urge from Faction Services to aid this issue.

[Harley]

It's been 5/6 months since this conversation was had.

When this was originally posted, @Aldarine and I have a pretty good conversation about why nothing had changed with the current Alt RP Request system.

The general idea that I got leaving that conversation was; We cannot request a change to the Senior Staff without some sort of result to show them about why something needs to change. And so, we both agreed that the best way to see any change would be for everyone to follow the current procedue with Alt RP, and let it run its course, that way this change could be shown to Senior Staff once again, but this time with dozens of Alt RP Opportunities wasting away in a Discord Channel or a Google Doc that hasn't been viewed for months.

The general reasoning given for why Alt RP is taking so long right now isn't even the approval of the requests, that actually came along really fast in my personal experience, but what's taking so long is the actual execution of Alt RP. The main reasoning is "Give other factions a chance".

Fair enough, other factions also deserve to enjoy Alt RP, but unless I have been looking in the wrong place, I haven't seen any faction get to do some Alt RP recently.

 

6 Months later, this procedure hasn't changed, and we now have evidence to show that it doesn't work. Factions are waiting months for Alt RP to be executed. I hope now Faction Services have enough evidence to present to Senior Staff that the current procedure is a failure, and needs the attention that was originally suggested to give it 6 months ago.

All my suggestions I made on this thread 6 months ago I still stand by, but I'm sure more people will have opinions on that now we've had to experience the failed procedure for 6 or more months.

I'd love to hear more transparency and honesty from staff around their opinions about the current procedure, what they would like to change (if anything) and what they're open for suggestions for. What I'd hate to hear is excuses about why X Alt RP has taken so long, or why Y still hasn't been approved. Just straight honest transparent answers from staff who know more than us would be actually really nice to see.

[Lyricz]

+1

[Purely]

+1

Edited August 4, 2022 by Purely

[LucasMadrazo]

+1

 

The lack of Alt Roleplay is kinda embarrassing not gonna lie

[skeletee]

From the beginning conversation of this thread, my takeaway was that staff needed more requests to be placed for these RP opportunities as it helps bring a greater understand on how to improve the system in place. This is what I did.

 

When Lola was in Rooks, I placed a request for an RP opportunity on 20 April. I left the faction on 28 April. To my understanding, there has been little to no progress since. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

When my other character, Jade Yang, was in Shenzhen, I placed a request for an RP opportunity for human trafficking 29 March and left the faction 31 March and passed the RP onto George. To my understanding, they were then told that they could not proceed with the RP about two months later at this time as it was very busy.

 

I submitted my most recent RP request for Irish on 29/07 and have yet to hear back of an update.

 

On the topic of requesting RP opportunities, Recently, I have found that I am unable  to RP as “alternative characters” in-game for the sole purpose of facilitating RP without also creating a document and receiving approval from staff due to complications with Metagaming. I’ve been told that it’s preferred that members of the events team RP as these alternative characters. Since my time in Irish alone, I have and have had people to RP as command members of the IRA, soldiers of the IRA, conspiracy theorists and snitches, a british stakeknife and infiltrator, British MI6 agent, shipmen of the IRA to deliver bomb materials. This is not an exhaustive list of all the characters I have bought in solely for the facilitation of RP opportunities. I have bought an alternative character for Shenzhen (member of the Triads back in Hong Kong), as well as for Rooks (“Admiral”). Please bare in mind that I needed these alternative characters for almost all of my more in-depth planned RP.

 

Since I found out that it was preferred for a staff member RPd as an alternative character for us, I wrote up the document not even 30 minutes later and placed a request. I requested this on 20/07 and have not heard back.

 

From a procedural perspective, I can understand why some sort of monitoring needs to be put in place. However, from my own perspective as a player that just wants to RP and create RP for the community, this is simply frustrating. Where I previously could request permission for RP opportunities and receive a response within a day, I now have to wait weeks with little to no updates, progress, or even promise that this RP will go ahead. By the time that the RP could be approved, circumstances in-game have probably changed, by this I mean relations, storyline, or even my involvement in said faction. These are all things that can change quickly, which is why a faster procedure to push out these requested RP opportunities is crucial. 

 

I know I don’t need to RP with the reliance of script, I feel versed in my understanding on how to do this, but so much of the RP that I want to do now requires further intervention, which now takes weeks to plan, write, review, then discuss, which is taxing my own creativity and motivation to create more.

 

What I mentioned in my post is the experience and perspective of my own. Please don’t take what I say as a means of disrespect. I want to RP as much as everyone on this server wants to, but there needs to be more of an urgency to push these RP opportunities through. None of the larger scaled RP that I have planned so far (by larger-scaled, I mean those involving my entire faction plus additional) would have been possible without the immediate support from SA+, which is was once previously before.

 

Further insight on what has changed since the beginning of this thread in terms of the procedure in place would be appreciated.

Edited August 11, 2022 by skeletee

[AtlasOLimbo]

Nothing has changed as far as I'm aware. Faction services has always struggled at communication, especially since key members go on LOA for extended and frequent periods and no decision can be made in their absence. When attempting to make AltRP requests, I was bounced around with answer to answer. "No, only officials can, unofficial can, oh eventually unofficials will be able to." And then nothing. 


@skeletee fights like hell for AltRP and still manages to struggle in the current system. It's what has stopped factions from thriving. If you want people to have staff RP as these "story characters". Then please make staff available for it, otherwise. People should not be blocked from continuing their story in a reasonable manner for months on end. 

[checkky]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:00 AM, skeletee said:

From the beginning conversation of this thread, my takeaway was that staff needed more requests to be placed for these RP opportunities as it helps bring a greater understand on how to improve the system in place. This is what I did.

 

From this thread when I first started it, I got the responses in PMs from staff that the more of these opportunities that were to be requested the better the "trial and error phase" to the "new" system would be. I've encouraged this along with seeing more requests from the faction I'm in being requested, but we're back at square one of getting little to no feedback/updates from our Guides or SA's+ on these requests. 

 

Personally I feel as if some FS Guides have a little too much on their plate, and this should be apart of the Events Team or even create a Requests Team for requests such as this.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Checkky

[checkky]

This thread can be archived.

[Ranger]

Archived upon request.