Cyrus Raven

I respectfully disagree... Some of the most expansive suggestion threads for criminal RP comes from @Balaa Police Officer as seen in the following threads: Mind you, I don't agree with a lot of the points made in these threads, but I hope it serves to point out that this isn't as easily boiled down to ''police In this server so Invested In a play to win mentalities that they force you to limit your RP which leads to you getting caught 90% of the time'', especially considering Police see criminal faction members switching frequencies or smashing radios while injured or tazed on the daily... so we should probably cool it down with the play 2 win mentalities, this isn't the thread to discuss this. Furthermore, Police do not have a say when it comes to choosing to follow the server rules and standards, just like any other person that plays on the server. As it stands right now, you have to place a weapon away through the script if you want it to be hidden. This thread is to discuss whether this should be changed, I don't see how blaming a legal faction that neither made this rule or has a choice to enforce it contributes positively to the discussion. Now onto a discussion about the actual suggestion. You can already expand your RP responses, specifically when it comes to hiding weapons, you just have to do it in conjunction with what the script lets you do. If you have space in your glovebox to hide your .50 and you want to RP hiding it under the seat, you can do that. You drag your .50 into the vehicle inventory and then elaborate where it is hidden through /me and /do What you can't do is use RP as a way to be able to hide a heavy somewhere in your car, circumventing the script, which I would argue is a good thing. Why might you ask is this a good thing? Because otherwise what we get are groups driving around with heavy weapons on them 24/7 and every time they are pulled over they just RP that it is hidden in the vehicle, creating what I suspect would be an environment where for any Police related incident the weapons are always RP'ly hidden, but for any incident outside of that involving civilians or other criminals the weapons are readily available to be used against It just makes it sound like you (not you specifically, but the people who agree with this suggestion in general) are looking to find a way to prevent Police from being able to see weapons on your person while also having the perk of being able to quickly step out and shoot at a moments notice in non-Police incidents and hiding this under the veil of improved RP. Compromise? I would consider it fair to allow heavy weapons to be stored normally in the vehicle storage as long as you have an action timer to store the weapon and an action timer to retrieve it. By having this script support, like you can right now with .50 or other pistols, you can then expand on your RP by using /me and /do after using the script function, thus being able to have that RP component of hiding a weapon in a specific area of the car through /me while also having it scritply in the car.

This is fine to ask for and something plenty of Officers do, although it isn't a requirement. I don't think you need Alt RP approval to hide a weapon using the inventory and then specifying where through and /me and /do RP. What isn't allowed is to keep a weapon on your person and then use /me and /do to RP'ly hide it, as mentioned if everyone would be given the freedom to do this it would be prone to abuse by people trying to avoid being seen with it while still having it easily accessible via the weapon wheel. It could lead to players claiming they hid the weapon via RP when pulled over by the Police while at the same time claiming it was on their person via the script so they can instantly use it if they engage with another criminal faction moments later. Using RP in combination with the script seems like a sensible solution and something that, as far as I am ware, is perfectly allowed. Want to hide a weapon in a car in one specific spot ? Place it in the inventory of the car and elaborate with /me and /do

This can still happen with the current system though.

I'm not opposed to finding ways for criminal groups to get weapons without having to be in an Official Faction, but this would have to be an extremely fleshed out idea for me to be able to +1 it. My main concern is that if we just copy paste a script like the bank heist but for a gun-store where the pay-out are weapons, we would see a lot of the same issues with the current system or probably worse. For the parties that think Police already shoot too much in bank situations involving hostages, imagine a situation where now what is being stolen are weapons and not money, this would likely lead to people being shot 99.9% of the times given the dangerous nature of the heist.

This is a utopic view IMO. It would be great fun if there was give and take between groups of RPers and 99% of the server could handle the power of being able to use /me to hide pretty much anything if they wanted. However, I think some community introspection is needed if the objective is to ground these suggestions in reality. There is no way that allowing people to hide heavies as long as there is a previous /me RP would lead to anything other than a new meta where we have people now making contraptions in their vehicles through /me with the specific purpose to conceal and quickly hide a heavy purely through RP. I wouldn't be surprised if we started regularly seeing stuff like: John is at his gang HQ. John decides to modify the center console of his vehcle with a hidden bottom compartment that only opens with a button under the steering wheel. He does this through /me and /do RP and saves a screenshot. Queue him getting pulled over by the Police, what does John do ? He RPs through /me as the Officer is in his car /me would press the button on the underside of his steering wheel, dropping his .50 in the middle and closing the hidden compartment by pressing the button once more. /do The weapon would be hidden in a secret compartment under a fake bottom on the centre console. Now imagine after a few days, weeks, months after John spreads the news of his wonderful contraption, we now start getting tons of players doing this, for what objective ? Is it for the RP ? No, it's just another way to win except with extra steps and (in my opinion) highly unrealistic possibilities. Or, we somewhat maintain it as it is now. Following on from the same logical chain, the script indirectly dictates to players that you can only place X amount of items with Y weight in the vehicle interior, this is your RP limitation. If players are planning to roll around robbing people, banks, doing labs, etc... they are making a choice to carry a weapon around knowing that if they want to try and hide it in a car, it will be through the inventory system, then they can add on to this by RP'ing something extra. For example, John just got pulled over, he drags his .50 to his car inventory and further RPs hiding it discretely with minimal movement to avoid alerting the Police of their actions, he would hide the weapon under the passenger seat. We thus have a combination of a script that hopefully prevents abuse and tries to curb unrealistic behaviour, while still allowing players to RP the specifics if they want to take the time to do so.

I think in these cases where you have script functionality, it is fair to use /me and /do as a way to enhance RP instead of overwriting it. So in your own example, the reason why most cars likely don't allow you to store multiple weapons or heavies is because staff wants to detract people from carrying heavies in every vehicle and being able to quickly put them in the glovebox and out. It seems against the spirit of this mechanic to use /me and /do to circumvent that. However, if you're in a car with a .50 and you put it in the vehicle storage and then want to RP hiding it under the driver seat, back right seat, glovebox, centre console, etc... I think you should be able to do that, because you've already used the script function and you're now adding to the RP and specifying through /me and /do where exactly you hid the weapon. TL;DR -1 on being able to store weapons through /me and /do if you're not able to do it through the script, but +1 on wanting some further clarification of what actions can and can't be RP'ed. (For example: There is no bodycam item, but we're able to RP it. There is also no ID item, but we're able to RP tossing it away, etc...)

I don't disagree with the sentiment here, but perhaps you can help me further understand this suggestion as well as @Mister Patel . I see RP that can't be scriptly done as essential, things like placing a bodycam on and turning it on, tossing your ID card to be able to RP lack of ID, etc... However, in the case of hiding a weapon, this can already be done through the script by dragging and dropping it into the inventory of the car and then enhancing that script action through /me and /do. Why do you think only RP through /me and /do would be needed instead of using a combination of existing features + RP.

It just doesn't make much sense. Police can already add charges without being next to people, report weapons stolen without being next to people, look up their information without being next to someone, etc... In a realistic sense you wouldn't have to physically be next to someone to suspend a license or add demerits and from a gameplay aspect it's a design flaw at worst and an annoyance at best. I would think it would be in everyone's interest to have Police be able to do some of the processing work (adding charges, suspending, arrest reports) while they get transported or dealt with by DOC as opposed to me having to make them wait an extra 5-10 minutes because I can't /suspend unless they are next to me. I don't care about taking my time to dot all the i's and cross the t's, but I'm getting paid for that time, criminals aren't.

+1

This might need to be another suggestion all together, but I think adding a new option to the interaction menu (Ctrl+Z or Ctl+X ? I don't even remember since it's rarely used) with an action timer. As long as you are close enough to the vehicle you would be able to open the interaction menu and right click on the vehicle, selecting the Check Plate option and activating a 5 second or so action timer. This would also only work while on foot, hopefully preventing the issue you described. P.S. Make the interaction menu more inutive to use and add more features to it (anims, duoanims, checking player status if they have been drinking or using drugs for any common signs of such usage, request ID card through there perhaps, etc...)

-1 I understand that it seems like a lot of vehicles are missing, but I guarantee you that developers have spent a big portion of time vetting what vehicles to allow on the server for balance, without having to resort to modifying vehicle handling files, something that would take significant effort. For example, the pariah is a 1/1 car (at least I think there is only one) because it is so good. Having players access this vehicle in unlimited amounts would surely break the ''fairness'' that has been thought about when it comes to vehicles that are available to players. The same applies to super cars, sports cars, armoured vehicles, etc... Sadly, we already see players picking what vehicles they use in-game and maximizing for performance instead of RP purposes or character backstory. Allowing most GTA Online vehicles would surely exacerbate the issue. This has happened in the past with the Hakuchou Drag, forcing developers to remove it and eventually to bring it back with a modified handling file, the F620 because of a speed bug, the comet retro custom for being able to go at extreme high-speeds, etc... Would it be an ideal world if developers painstakingly changed every single vehicle and balanced the handling to make it fair? Sure, but I don't think this is realistic. As for the plane/helicopter idea. I like it, I think there should be small planes and helicopters available. To my knowledge in the past these were not considered as Rage is a bit weird with planes/helicopter sync, I'm unsure if that problem still persists. Although this would have to be regulated IC'ly with high prices, licenses with strict requirements, etc... as it would surely become a go to escape method for criminals and not as an RP opportunity as it is meant to be.

+1 I don't see why someone shouldn't be able to /takebattery to a cuffed/tied player. Better yet, make the phone an actual item in the inventory similar to a radio.

+1 if people are going to be sent in for hours at the very least they should have something to do or work towards

I haven't had much time to read through the rest of the replies, but I would not mind seeing bank robbers that have hostages able to negotiate this ''free passage'', as mentioned in a lot of RP servers, both in GTA and other types of roleplay games, this is accepted as a term that essentially means the criminals will be given a chance to get in a vehicle and leave without getting shot, spiked or otherwise physically interrupted. Now, I'm not saying we should just expect PD/SD to let people get away, but this is a game at the end of the day, getting a hostage and going through a bank robbery is something that takes time to do and usually means a lot of risk involved, this creates a situation for PD/SD to have something more to do then the usual traffic stops, etc... In essence, they are fun! Thus, my suggestion would be, whether through OOC or IC means, start keeping your end of the bargain when it comes to negotiations, if someone negotiated for free passage and they gave the hostage then LET them through, the millisecond they start driving without being stopped you can then initiate pursuit. Any PD/SD officer in charge of these bank robberies should technically still hold the advantage, you can set up XRAY for the pursuit, get HSMU/HSIU ready, ask some GOB to block off common tunnels, etc.. In all other aspects PD/SD would still likely have the tactical advantage and all that would be ''given up'' would be the ability to shoot someone or their car, or otherwise physically prevent them from leaving IF a ''safe passage'' has been agreed upon. Obviously, safe passage probably wouldn't apply for situations where bank robbers have no bargain chip (AKA no hostages). Idk, I've been to plenty of bank situations and other hostage situations and there were sometimes where it didn't sit right with me that we could just open up on people. Were we IC'ly/OOC'ly justified ? Sure, but I also get the need to add an element of ''fairness'' given that this is a game, people are risking a lot and a good faith effort was done to RP well and use a hostage the way it is meant to be used, as chip to trade in negotiations.

+1 Make sure the helicopter camera doesn't have thermal imaging, but only standard night-vision, just to keep the balance for those who like hiding in bushes and such.

There's a pretty easy workaround, no where in the penal code does it state you need a medical license or permit by MD to wear a mask for ''medical reasons'', instead it states that you need reasonable cause, medical reasons being one of them. Building a character as being a germaphobe or someone with a medical disease that requires usage of the mask could be done and if a cop still fines/arrests you for it then you can deal with it IC'ly (IA report, Legal recourse, etc...). This might not be the intent of the law, but as it is written the law does NOT require a permit or medical letter for you to RP using a mask for ''Medical Reasons''. Any and all info in this reply relating to IN-CHARACTER actions should not be used as this is an OOC forum and reply. To avoid any sort of metagaming, read the penal code, think outside the box and use the law in your favour. If someone still breaks that law in a way you think is unlawful then there are IC ways to deal with it, although tedious and timely.

+1 I was going to create a thread of my own, but I'm glad someone else took the initiative. To add, given the recent addition of the police SUV and now the new Kamachos for EMS/PD/SD, It would be really interesting to see some custom cars be brought to the dealerships. Obviously these would need to be tested for balance, but it would be cool to see a couple of custom cars added, especially considering the amount of people who enjoy car content on the server, this combined with the above (especially the race ID thing) would make for an awesome update.

yup, I agree, if people want to drive fast that is fine, but probably not the best show of RP to smash into someone at 190km/h and casually drive off as if nothing happened.

You can always do /report and ask for the ID of the player who last did damage to you for a report. Admins will probably give the info to you for a report. On another note, as someone who spends a large part of my time speeding, I don't think there is anything wrong with that playstyle, RP is what you make of it. But I do agree that crashing against another player and leaving as if nothing happened especially if realistically you or your car would be damaged is kinda Non-RP. On the flip side I see new players all the time legit running in the middle of the highway, so for those particular players I have 0 sympathy if someone crashes into them and they keep going.

Date and time (provide timezone): 12:20 GMT+1 Character name: Cyrus Raven Issue/bug you are reporting: I noticed my slamvan was able to go faster than the 240km/h speed cap like the old days before the speed limit was hard set on the server to 240km/h, this happened as soon as I got a field repair from a mechanic after stalling my vehicle down to 30 something HP. Expected behavior: No vehicle should go past 240km/h Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Get a vehicle known to go fast (Comet, 811, etc...), stall it, have a mechanic perform a field repair. (Notes: This bug is limited, if you exit the vehicle at any point after the fix from the mechanic the speed limit will reset and you can no longer go past 240km/h) Vehicle license plate number*: CYABITCH (I suggest using a comet or having a staff member you know can make a car go past 240km/h, my slamvan isn't the best example given that I am one of the few people that can get it to go fast, feel free to contact me if you need further assistance, video bellow) https://streamable.com/udsqxg

+1 pretty much everything has been said. I feel like this mod is just a brightness % that gets turned down after X hours. Something like the night mod shown above would work much better and actually make lights work instead of just making everything dark. Cool idea, just needs adjustment.

+1

I am unable to speak on the current actions of PD, but this has been done in the past, although it isn't standard operating procedure for GOB.

I hear what you're saying friend, but I think it's important to recognize the flip side of some of the things being said here. Surely if in Los Santos we have these very serious and dangerous criminal organizations, then an equal and likely even superior force would rise to the challenge. To be clear, when I say rise to the challenge I don't mean a police state, but small things like stacking more units on known criminals or increased suppression checks on known gang-members. These are legitimate tactics used IC to directly counter IC actions by criminals. It's important to realize that PD/SD are a reactive force as has been pointed out and wanting groups to ''play smarter'' is, in my opinion, a valid statement when the standard operating procedure for most organizations in Eclipse is having a dress-code, color and gang-mask. (I am aware some groups have started avoiding this, to which I say GOOD!) There are so many small IC steps that criminal players can take to reduce their ''Heat'' from the Police, but they shoot themselves in the foot by repeating the same playstyle over and over. However, I do have sympathy in some regard. For example, random searches by GFU/DB on gang-members/gang-leaders needs to stop UNLESS there is probable cause where probable cause means a belief that a crime has been or is going to be committed given certain indicators/evidence. Being a ''convicted felon'' or even a ''gang-leader'' shouldn't give Law Enforcement carte-blanche to violate people's 4th Amendment rights. Which brigs me to my final point, rights. I have no idea why we don't have basic rights besides the ones read to someone during an arrest, if such were present I doubt a lot of the situations that have led to this tension would have happened in the first place, but perhaps this is something that can be accomplished with the Justice Department. TL;DR PD/SD are reactive forces and there are a ton of steps that can be taken by criminal organizations to avoid the interactions they dislike, but this isn't done because people prefer to play Eclipse as if what they did 2 hours, 4 days or a month ago have no affect on them. On the flip side, criminal RP is very restricted with a lack of proper IC protocols to stop certain abuse from Law Enforcement and OOC restrictions that prevent people from roleplaying how they want.

Just want to comment on one specific point. ''They don't take big fights. They can't respawn and they don't want to die, they're normal people with families who do a job. Officer smith and jones who sees a large gathering of gang members having a meeting as they patrol are far more likely to ignore it than call it in.'' I do somewhat agree with this. I don't like how sometimes five or six cruisers are called in for one known gang member and told to step out, etc... (which is very valid IMO), but then if these criminals decide to act on this show of force by either attacking these units or ambushing them with a goal to escape, they are likely reported for DM and such. I agree that PD should have the upper hand in terms of response, if you mess with them in a way which opens you up to being rolled on then that is something that is on you. My issue would mainly be with what actions can be taken by criminals that would likely get them punished according to the rules. An example would be. If a criminal member is pulled over and after the initial interaction he is told to step out of the car, he should be able to shoot at the units on scene, whether that leads to his demise or not. If he's smart and does this when there is one unit and he is confident he can flee then that would likely be a ''smart move'', if he does it when there are seven units and an XRAY then the consequences that follow from that would naturally apply, the point is that they can happen, if a player chooses so, as opposed to getting reported for DM. Keep in mind I would also be the type of person to be in favour of bringing back KOS rules, add drive-by rules for Rival Gang vs Rival Gang stuff, and overall be a lot more open and relaxed with certain rules. In the same vain, this would likely only work with a group of people that are very serious about RP and wouldn't abuse this privilege, which I think the majority of people in ECRP would, turning it into a cops and robbers server, which I believe is the opposite of what ECRP management want. Having said this, take my critique with a grain of salt.