Cyrus Raven

Let me fix your statement real quick: ''You used a barrier meant to dissuade a driver from going through it to stop a pursuit of a felon'' Yes, that's what police tactics usually consist off, ways to STOP criminals....

I am being patronising, I will admit. However, my points still stands. The reason I bring up ''kinetic energy'' and ''realism'' is because you stated ''we were greeted by wooden barriers that would of quite easily been destroyed and rammed through in real life.'' The implication in your statement is that the barriers shouldn't have been placed because they do not act like real life wooden barriers, which is why I then explained to you that other actions you perform with your vehicle in game are equally as unrealistic (curb boosting/riding on sidewalks at high-speeds in the city, being an example), thus the inconsistency from your part. In other words, being hypocritical.

Abuse ? The barriers work as intended, they are destructible at low speeds and immobilize the vehicle at high-speeds, just like any other wooden prop in the game (think about the fences at braddox and the effect they have on vehicles moving at very high-speeds), unlike the orange indestructible ones which actually injure due to their indestructible nature. Here is a tip, get creative as you guys usually are (setting up bikes, blocking tunnels, etc...) and don't become predictable, riding a multi-million dollar super car around a highway.

This is where the ''Of course the GTA 5 engine works differently than real life, but the same principle applies.'' comment came in, but I guess you missed it. Of course in real life the vehicle would interact differently with that type of barrier, but it would damage the vehicle for sure, I don't think anyone argued that it would stop the car as it did for you. However, if realism is your biggest concern on how an object affects your car then I expect you to purposely ram your car into a wall every single time you pass over a sidewalk while driving a sports car at 180km/h+ in the city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YumE2IxsgHg [Graphic Warning] - As you can see the vehicle loses control after hitting the sidewalk, keep in mind the speed of the vehicle is a lot slower than the speeds seen in Eclipse. So next time you think about doing any curb boosting or cutting corners through sidewalks during chases, I expect you to uphold the same standard of realism you are demanding. If you agree to this then I will accept the ''issue'' with the barriers. For the rest that might not be inclined follow this absurd line of thinking that givejoshamosin is suggesting what I would say is the following. GTA is a game at the end of the day, our job is to try and portray realism to a high-degree, but this isn't possible in everything we do because as mentioned, it is a game. When it comes to blockades, we already use ones that are destructible (mainly at slow speeds due to how the engine works). Using this as an example of PG or bad PD RP is nonsensical, what it does is show how we RP as a team and come up with tactics on the spot to stop a felon.

Yeah, no. Firstly, Blue barriers are destructible, but of course they stall a vehicle if you plow through them at 200km/h...this is called ''Kinetic Energy'', it's the same reason why if you crash into another car at 200km/h vs 10km/h you will see a difference in effect to both the vehicle and the collided object. Of course the GTA 5 engine works differently than real life, but the same principle applies. PD is not allowed to set up barriers with the orange blockades (/blockade barrier2), because these actually are indestructible, so we are told to use the blue ones, since they are destructible, in fact, in your own video you see the 811 destroy part of the barriers as it hits it and then when other cruisers hit your 811. The reason this would most likely be denied is because of the lack of rule break or substance, not because of bias. Secondly, I find it very ironic how this is being posted in a thread that aims to improve PD RP. People previously complained that we either shoot in unrealistic areas with little time in between demands or have no care for civilian lives. However, you post a situation where you were chased for ''15 minutes'' and then seem to complain when PD players decide to anticipate and predict your movement, using legitimate police tactics and placing blockades. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All in all, this thread in general has some good suggestions, some of which I agreed with, but the thing I keep coming back to is people pointing out situations that have ZERO to do with PD realism and more to do with the fact you got out-played. Oh and before you say something about ''win-mentality'' when I say ''out-played'', I mean outsmarted, as in you were caught because a group of people worked hard to set something in motion in the little time they most likely had and you got caught. If you want to call this ''win-mentality'' then go ahead. As far as I'm concerned, this is the type of post that muddies the overall positive message of this thread by bringing up situations that have nothing wrong with them.

+1 Assuming a provision is made to avoid the rampant robbery of randoms all over a major city, which I believe was the main reasons for the initial rule change if I am not mistaken.

@Osvaldon To add more information. I was driving my drafter [LOST1] and I parked my vehicle in the garage, taking it out after. When I took it out, I noticed the rear lights only turned on if I locked/unlocked the car or if I pressed S to break/reverse. However, the headlights and backlights were not on by default at night, pressing H to turn on/off the lights and high-beams also did nothing. Video: https://streamable.com/3wampi

-1 Unless this is scripted in a way that completely differs from usual gun-play I think it will be used to create new shooting metas. Maybe this is just bad shitty experience, but I feel like only cops and robbers SAMP servers used to have these paintball arenas where the sweatiest kids used to get better at shootouts.

Cyrus Raven 5 Tickets

That is true, like I said, new system need to get used to this. Sometimes Officers will take items to give them later to DOC, making sure to hand in only the things you can keep, but it happens that they forget or there are multiple other situations going on where there is no time. I find that leaving anything legal that won't be confiscated on the person is better with the new system, that way I won't forget. Like I said, it can happen that people forget, just give us some time to get used to the new system and try and remind us before getting placed in jail to save your items.

This doesn't happen anymore or should be reduced. Either you get arrested at DOC, in which case DOC keep your items, or at Mission Row/Paleto, in which case PD/SD will return your items. There might be times officer's forget as this new system is very new, so get in the habit or asking for your items to be store, this should remind the Officer's what they need to do while we get used to the new system!

Police Officers are required by IC regulations to explain to someone why they are being arrested/detained. However, they do not need to IC'ly spend their time providing evidence. This is for two reasons. One, if an Officer sees you committing a crime that is enough to arrest you, meaning if you were to ask for ''evidence'' their word (and any bodycam they have) would be the evidence. Secondly, this would lead to most people demanding to see the evidence of their crimes, which would obviously lead to extremely long situations. (I'm not opposed to extending situations, just informing you why this is the case). You have to realize that in real life if an Officer arrests you they DO NOT have to show you evidence straight away of why you were detained, this can be done during trial where any and all evidence is shown and your lawyer can then defend you. I understand in ECRP we don't have a legal system, but hopefully this can be an option when it gets added. As for the solution portion ''Police must state in text what crime they suspect you of before they search you but after they've looked at your ID. Once they've stated the reason they have to provide the suspect an opportunity to provide an explanation/rebuttal/defense at which point the police must state in chat what evidence they have to detain the suspect.''. Simply put. No. We arrest/detain people for a variety of reasons, which doesn't always involve charging someone for a crime. In general, Officers will absolutely explain why they are arresting you. However, post people in ECRP given the chance would just run away or get in a car/bike before the Officer had the time to explain why they are being detained. Which is why we put someone in cuffs first AND THEN we are happy to answer any questions you have about the arrest short of having to upload footage or reveal information which can not be revealed at the time. Furthermore, do not forget every Officer is held to a strict IC/OOC corruption rule, if you suspect anyone is arresting you without a valid reason then you can IC IA report, OOC IA report or Forum Report. This is most likely unintentional, but quite Ironic. You stated previously the police were judge, jury and executioner, which is right. However, because this is the case it means we can't go around arresting/detaining people without probable cause, which according to our IC guidelines isn't granted by ''witness testimony''. So when you flag an Officer down and they ask you to file a crime report, they do so such that you are able to prepare any evidence you might have (if any at all). Does this mean they should ignore you or not stop ? Of course not, in fact ignoring such things when there isn't an on-going situation is not only bad RP, but probably falls under breaking corruption rules in some way. Matter of fact is, we can not arrest/detain based on witnesses alone, we need to see something happen ourselves or people need to provide us with bodycam footage, either actual recordings with a screenshot saved showing you did bodycam RP (with /time command in the screenshot) OR they can simply RP putting the bodycam on, save the screenshot and we can use /do and /ldo to determine the truth since players can not lie in /do. Absent that, most likely nothing can be done unless we see it happening, again this might change if a justice system is put in place, until then you are correct we are judge, jury and executioner, as such we must be extremely careful and make sure every arrest we do, is done with the best amount of evidence. As for the gang members chasing you comment, I have personally been involved in escorting multiple people to safety, if you can't go to the police station or such because you would be breaking NCZ rules that is an IC action you chose to make, RP it out to the full extent, even then most Officers will ask the vehicles to stop following, giving them a warning that they will be arrested for harassment. ECRP isn't a perfect replica of a normal city, at peak we are busy 99% of times, most of which involve shots fired calls, shootouts, gang related matters, etc... Even then we want all crimes to be looked into, which is why we have a crime report section on the government website, we want people to use that. Recently we have been given the ability to store people's items at Mission Row. However, this is only reserved for people arrested there. If you are jailed at DOC they take care of storing these items. Give us some time to get used to this new system as I am sure there have been lapses by Officers in storing items given the recent implementation. Ideally, any items an Officer leaves on someone should be returned to them, which would make things a lot easier, but that would require further development scriptly speaking. Overall, I think a Justice system would be great, I wouldn't mind extending RP situations and having to show evidence in court, whether it is RP'ly or actual footage, but as it stands Officers need to be extremely careful when arresting people to make sure they are being arrested for something they actually did, thus the emphasis on recording and keeping bodycam RP screenshotted if requested. As for the way Officer's arrested/detain people, I have zero issues with how it is done currently, we will always explain why someone was arrested/detained after you are in cuffs if the reason is serious or you are a known criminal, asking repeatedly before being put in cuffs will only yield you more charges. Disclaimer: The above is only my thoughts on the subject and I do not, in any way, represent the LSPD faction as a group, Furthermore, any information here that might allude to IC information is not to be taken and used in-game as that would constitute metagaming.

+1 I'm gonna support this with a PD suggestion/perspective in mind. Generally increase the money paid out by selling drugs. However, make it harder to cook large amount of drugs without risk. Something like if X amount of tables is present in house/apartment/RV they will need Y amount of ventilators and Z amount of water bottles to produce without risk of blowing up. Furthermore, past X,Y,Z amount of ventilators the cooling effects would cease to exist and only output would keep rising (Example: 1 ventilator and 2 bottles for 5 tables will have a higher chance of blowing up than 2 ventilators and 5 bottles for 5 tables. However, having 10 ventilators and 25 water for 50 tables would only output more drugs and would have no affect on safety, increasing the risk) My thought process behind this is to allow those who want to be risky to run very large operations at an obvious benefit as they will gain much more money. However, huge operations will also have a significantly higher risk, one which can not be solved by adding more water or having more ventilators. This way, people have three options, they keep their cooking to a small scale which yields low output with low risk, they can choose to split their cooking houses into several small ones for added output and low risk (However, having more locations might prove to be more of a burden in the long-term) or they can go all out and have a massive cooking facility, where output is high, but the risk of something blowing up or smoke being detected is very high. However, there needs to be an incentive for something so high-risk like the last option. This could be done by increasing drug yield by a certain % past a certain amount of tables being placed. I don't have official stats on this, but as far as I know, PD doesn't get a lot of 911 calls for what seems to be a massive amount of people cooking meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. It all depends on whether people are happy with how things are now, or want added revenue with a bit of risk involved.

Date and time (provide timezone): 20/10/2020 Character name: Cyrus Raven Issue/bug you are reporting: /suspend will not only suspend but also revoke the license. Using the /lift command (short for /liftsuspension) will remove the suspension but not the revoked state. Expected behavior: /suspend should only suspend a license for X amount of days. /takelicense should only revoke a license. /lift should unsuspend any license Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: PD staff member. /suspend [YOUR ID] TRUCKER 1 then /lift [YOUR ID] TRUCKER. Then /license and you will notice that the trucker license still remains revoked although the suspended state has been removed.

Everything described in the OP just makes me think you're looking for an easy way to go about doing crimes all over the city. I understand when people complain about some of the equipment we get, lack of justice system, etc... even if I disagree with them. However, your case doesn't even apply, it seems like you want to dumb down PD players and make them give you a chance to escape even when they have gone through the IC effort of setting something up or calling for backup. That's not ''nerfing PD'' via script changes or by adding stuff to the civilian/criminal side, that's wanting to limit how players take and use IC information and act on it.

I agree with what you outlined and I will say that as far as how PD acts, we usually stick to shooting on highways even if demands are given in the city given that we do try and RP the city as being packed and having civilians walking on the streets. I don't see why that can't be extended to highways, although I would argue that with enough police prescence the highway would realisticlly be cleared eventually, maybe have it so PD can put out a PSA asking motorists to clear the highway, which would RP'ly clear any civilians from the road and also inform players of an on-going situation in a populated area. This would be on a timer, meaning as soon as the warning is put out X amount of time has to pass to consider the highway ''clear'' from an RP standpoint. That last part is just some brain storming, but to begin I wouldn't be opposed to not shooting on highways unless one of the situations you outlined happens.

I agree. So lets get down to it, what do you think should be the bar for when an officer can open fire on a vehicle ? Or do you think this shouldn't be done at all ?

100%. I try my best not to be bias, but I of course recognize that my thoughts and views will naturally contain some sort of bias because I only play as a LEO. I do try and keep an open mind on these discussions when talking about ways to increase RP, but I will always try and point out inconsistencies in arguments which happens often when talking about ''PD realism''. Example: Someone complains PD has supers, but fails to recognize that sports cars and sports bikes are a very common type of vehicle amongst criminals too (especially those that can go 240km/h+), not to mention the strict protocols around using them these vehicles.

No.

I agree. I don't think automatic gun-fire should be authorized solely based on what was seen on the video, but I don't know if the people chasing you (SWAT) had other information they were acting on. Since I wouldn't go as far to say that behaviour is never acceptable, I would have to know the reason behind their actions. But generally, yes I agree.

I said lower acceleration to make it realistic which would naturally mean PD (and crims too I guess) have more time to work with when setting stuff up long-term, thus avoiding the whole PIT as soon as you can or shoot after demands mentality YOU were arguing against... How this translates to ''it's easier for us to catch you'' is beyond me, but k

Putting aside the validity of this statement, I love how the only justification for ''most reports against pd gets laughed at and tossed out'' has to be because of bias, it can't possibly be because of the report simply not being valid or any other million reasons. Glad to see we've resorted to conspiracy theory level arguments where PD is actually protected by the all mighty staff team and that's actually why they don't get punished. Guess the two officers (one detective) who got a Non-RP and Metaming punishment recently are exceptions to keep people thinking that staff is unbiased and not actually a legit punishment /s

If it's done in a way that would breach NRP, then REPORT IT. However, don't expect to disassemble and put away an Assault Rifle and somehow expect people not to notice, but like I said, this would only really be seen under certain circumstances, so report it if you think it is non-RP. To make it clear though, this has nothing to do with what you posted. The matter of fact is, the guy was already in cuffs for reasons neither you or I know and the officer appropriately searched the car even including RP along the way. Using this as an example or ''proof'' of Police metagaming /ame is NOT valid.

Good to know. The fact is you don't seem to actually care about increasing RP opportunities at all, just nerf PD. I have no interest in participating in a such a conversation. As OP pointed out, this isn't supposed to be a cops vs crims thread, but solely to discuss risk/reward from PD perspective. Imagine spinning a suggestion to decrease EVERY VEHICLE acceleration as somehow me wanting to give PD vehicles an advantage and thinking one member in some gang in NYC with a 100k vehicle is somehow the norm for most gangs around the US. The main points I got were: - PD is OP - Any suggestion that affects both sides is you wanting PD to still be OP - Also PD is OP cause staff members and muh punishments.

I'm sorry, how is a player suppose to scriptly search the interior of the car unless they get in the car first ????