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CalvinKlein

The Current state of Criminal Roleplay

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I believe every active / old member of the server can see how criminal roleplay is descending in quality, and there's multiple issues to speak about, following multiple conversations with many concerned parties and a discussion with a Staff member with authority to look into things and potentially fix them I made this thread to voice out people's opinions and combine the comments of other players and inject them into the main thread to bring most of the current issues with crim RP and how it's been gradually dying out, and voice out those issues and bring them to the higher staff team and people in charge of big decision making.

 

Note to forum moderators: Please Delete any comments that try to instigate a PD vs Crim discussion as its far beyond that point now and criminal roleplay is damaged to the core

 

@JakeInnit_ Noted down

FM should stop gangs allying with more than two other gangs - I honestly don't believe there should be OOC limitations on who you ally with etc

FM should give more clear and in depth feedback prior to the point of official reviews, in order for factions to stay on track and keep official - I agree 100%, I really believe FM should keep concerned players well informed in such scenarios rather than having them guess 

FM should not be run or involve individuals that know little to nothing regarding criminal roleplay, handlers often have never been apart of a criminal faction, official or otherwise - I personally agree 100% as certain things ruled / commented on by FM make no sense at all coming from someone who first played ECRP at august 2017 and been playing crim as main, and some decisions seem to decrease the overall fun for the players and improve nothing, Faction management I.M.O should be in charge of legal factions and a new sub-department of Staff should be introduced, something like "Gang management" which could be mainly ran by staff members who have lots of experience RPing as crims 

Add turfs to the chopshop NPCs at plane scrapyard, garbage, left lake and right lake - There's not many official factions currently, otherwise I would support this and encourage fighting over fights etc rather than having FM intervene in every turf related situation

Add ATM robberies in order to gain money packets, a new tool could be added to the tools NPC that sells crowbars etc - This is a script related issue, would be nice to add, however the main concerns of this thread is the way things are being ran, rules limiting/restricting RP, this will bring more script related interactions but the end goal here is to improve player to player RP as a crim

FM leadership should make themselves more available to speak to faction leaders, if they can't find the time then maybe introduce more staff into senior FM positions. My reasoning for this is because during the whole Triads x Irish vs Aztecas GD MB LFM conflict, no one had the opportunity to speak to senior FM, only handlers were there but they have limited powers - Yes and this lack of communication changed a conflict that could have been a fun / approved rivalry VIA official war,. or an official rivalry sort of, to a series of unfortunate events that resulted into two great official factions losing  their status 

FM handlers should engage with their factions more, from my experience its only one or two who actually take the time to engage with people and check in on them - In my opinion, FM handler's involvement should be there to make sure rules are not being broken etc, and not to enforce roleplay in a certain way or force / stop certain IC things from happening, Handlers can say something at one point then have faction members completely blind sided by a different ruling from their seniors

Static drug lab tables should have lower timers for cooking drugs - At this point labs are a desperate case and anything improving them is a +1 from me 

Reintroduce mushrooms and steroids to drug manufacturing under a new table type and with a new static lab possibly at the large house in Grapeseed - More updates etc will def. help criminal RP and this is def a +1 however I prefer this thread being more about how crim RP can be improved in terms of the way how things are being ran by staff, rules, FM involvement etc as it takes less effort to change / fix , since updates will take a lot more work etc 

@CallumMontie Added: 

The problem with "criminal rp" comes from the players not the script support. Currently 90% of the players that exist in criminal RP are only present to shoot, loot and win. Once you get rid of this mentality then you will see vast positive developments with how the rp flows. 

Criminal RP has had the most updates targeted to them over the last year+ in the server, however it always ends up in the "stale" state due to the player bases attitudes. Further development will only keep it fresh for a month, where players will then return to their usual mindset. 

I personally disagree that "more" rules should be added into structing criminal rp via FM, as Faction Management already are involved beyond levels I personally believe they should. They often get involved with "reasoning" over single events, let alone focusing on the overall quality and providing constructive feedback to the gangs. Given that the communication is improved, again this will vastly assist in the quality of the rp. Instead of players being afraid to carry out RP in fear of "Punishment". 

To sum it up, players should be focusing on their own "issues" and strive to improve them, instead of worrying about others. Once you've improved yourself and your faction, from there everyone can begin working together to get it into a working state. 

The main concern in this thread was not script support, you are right the majority of the playerbase is the reason, but the way rules are made, and Staff intervenes has a huge effect on matters, And just because some people can be interested in heavy RP in general, that does not mean this "shootout, loot, win" should be discouraged, however it should not be the main objective a criminal gets, But you gotta keep in mind you are roleplaying a criminal on GTA, at certain points PVP makes the game fun, but all should be done in accordance with the rules which I believe need to be adjusted, I also agree 100% on your statement regarding FM's extreme involvement 

@KCAJ Mentioned I don’t care about how many gangs are together on one freq I’d rather just have old labs back and 2019 rules so that people aren’t getting Non RPs for robbing someone for a gun/car.  -  Labs were indeed a huge contributor and factor within criminal roleplay and need to be revived as they are dead right now

 

@JayG +1 -Adjust drug labs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics, etc
Bring back the whole cooking in LAB's / Holding it down Solo cooking being fun so people actually want to go to the labs in order to make an income this whole cooking at home I understand can be good however nothing beats chilling in a lab with people holding it down least then criminals would actually have something to do criminal activities are very limited these days kinda annoying
 
+1 On Robbery Rules before we didn't have many officers to the point officers would be overrun by criminals now we have quite a few I think some things should be an IC Issue, for example, you were to rob someone who insulted you or has a gun on them in the middle of the legion square or on a street corner that would be your own risky fault as a passer could see and report you however this shouldn't be an OOC RULE that you cannot rob someone in these locations as it's just limiting the fun, for example, you see someone you know they're a criminal/ active gang member why can't you just pull on them rob them and get off without it having to come to the forums. it is understandable you wouldn't just rob someone at a gas station in the middle of the street who you didn't know or was a legal worker in order to rob them you would figure out who they were by talking to them then you just hop off your bike/car hands them up strip them quickly and get off this is also their own fault for their own IC conflict people these days are too worried about reporting someone for taking their shit knowing that it's their own fault as a player. - The nonrp rules did help fishermen, miners, etc, but became an invisible shield criminals use in order to avoid IC consequences from their IC actions and is abused by people on a daily basis, and I really believe they need to be looked into because the amount of Ruleplay taking place nowadays is just too too far.

 

@NM369 Quoting the issues are believe need looking into from your comment: 

-Switch back to american roleplay instead of european (Remove the nonRP robbery rules, or adjust it so that it creates more RP opportunities.) / as mentioned earlier I'm totally with fishermen not getting robbed while fishing at the pier but the way it currently is in the criminal world is just destroying immersion as you can not roleplay your character and their actions properly in scenarios since you will get reported
-Somehow crim convoys are nonRP now? Why? Back when in PD I got so stoked when I saw a convoy as it gave an enjoyable chase. / Totally Agree, this is a game and you should not get an OOC punishment because there's "too many vehicles" on a chase, if they were ramming each other and fucking up too much etc then yea but if driving properly it seems like an IC issue and gives PD some RP to go and try to break off the convoy / disperse 
-Less faction management involvement as they control all IC actions OOCly / Big +1, A Blacklist was introduced where lots of RP took place between several gangs and a criminal legislation and jury were made which contributed heavily to improving crim RP from an IC standpoint (not allowing snitching etc) which should be the core lore to almost every criminal, and if I'm not mistaken staff demanded that does not become a thing 
-Adjust druglabs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics,etc / As multiple people stated / suggested, labs need to get revived and I think that is currently the main issue that is a script issue rather than just rules.
-Make some admins play as crims so that they can actually see how bad it currently is. (Put them in DOC for a week as an inmate and I bet DOC would actually improve) / 100% I see players commenting on other threads saying "Staff are also members who play the game etc etc" However I can bring up so many examples of staff members that are not that active in game, or don't actively play Crim RP, or never did, yet are given roles that are crucial to crim RP and I really believe it should be handled by people who are very experienced around that field.
-Make faction management watch some documentaries on crime so that criminal can go back to roleplaying as one instead of the civilians we got turned into. / Any form of Education on Crim RP would be great help whether its in game experience or documentaries.
-Fix DOC stamps so that we can at least poker and have some fun in DOC every now and then. / +1 as prison is currently closer to being an ooc punishment where you got to AFK , unless you are lucky and you get in during times with lots of inmates, familiar faces, and DOC guards, where there's times where its you and 1 new player and another AFK guy.
-Fix the unrealistic way we get injured now, If I fall off a faggio going 5 km/h and get injured, I can't scream or call anyone?  yet 911 is fair? Getting injured has become so unrealistic. I know the agenda behind it was to make injuries more realistic but from what i've actually seen it made it way worse.  / This rule makes everyone's game experience nothing but harder as you are forced to RP a certain way, if i break my leg I somehow cant use my vocal chords, shout, or use my radio which is pressing a button on your ear, kinda like the script PGing you into being unable to do actions you should be able to do with certain injury types, specially when you die to a glitch and there's no MD on duty you gotta wait AFK till you bleed out or hope you're lucky to get a by-passer who's got BLS and a trunk
 

Fishing at pier makes more money then running a druglab right now which is kinda weird.
The only reason I'm still logging in is just because of my friends i got here, Just to talk and vibe since there is barely anything to do anymore. - So are many many other players and its bad.
 

Edited by CalvinKlein
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2 minutes ago, JakeInnit_ said:

Whats the suggestion here?

if you have any useful input, be my guest, I will be adding people's valid comments into the thread, and issues brought up by other people I myself am gonna refrain from speaking much to eliminate any chance of bias towards myself, and this thread will be relayed to certain people who will review it and assess the situation

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Just now, CalvinKlein said:

if you have any useful input, be my guest, I will be adding people's valid comments into the thread, and issues brought up by other people I myself am gonna refrain from speaking much to eliminate any chance of bias towards myself, and this thread will be relayed to certain people who will review it and assess the situation

In that case, here are my suggestions:

FM should stop gangs allying with more than two other gangs

FM should give more clear and in depth feedback prior to the point of official reviews, in order for factions to stay on track and keep official 

FM should not be run or involve individuals that know little to nothing regarding criminal roleplay, handlers often have never been apart of a criminal faction, official or otherwise

Add turfs to the chopshop NPCs at plane scrapyard, garbage, left lake and right lake

Add ATM robberies in order to gain money packets, a new tool could be added to the tools NPC that sells crowbars etc

FM leadership should make themselves more available to speak to faction leaders, if they can't find the time then maybe introduce more staff into senior FM positions. My reasoning for this is because during the whole Triads x Irish vs Aztecas GD MB LFM conflict, no one had the opportunity to speak to senior FM, only handlers were there but they have limited powers 

FM handlers should engage with their factions more, from my experience its only one or two who actually take the time to engage with people and check in on them

Static drug lab tables should have lower timers for cooking drugs 

Reintroduce mushrooms and steroids to drug manufacturing under a new table type and with a new static lab possibly at the large house in Grapeseed

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I have posted very similar opinion before, but I think that a very useful change would be a clause in Fear RP rule that would make joining an already in-progress shootout that does not involve your own faction a breach of Fear RP. It would effectively end large gang alliances that are there for shooting purposes, while still allowing RP alliances (that provide money, sell weapons, etc).

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4 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I have posted very similar opinion before, but I think that a very useful change would be a clause in Fear RP rule that would make joining an already in-progress shootout that does not involve your own faction a breach of Fear RP. It would effectively end large gang alliances that are there for shooting purposes, while still allowing RP alliances (that provide money, sell weapons, etc).

I don't think that would be too great. You should be able to backup your allies in shootouts, or if two of your enemies are fighting you should be able to go in and clean up to get your hands on some easy cash.

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23 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I have posted very similar opinion before, but I think that a very useful change would be a clause in Fear RP rule that would make joining an already in-progress shootout that does not involve your own faction a breach of Fear RP. It would effectively end large gang alliances that are there for shooting purposes, while still allowing RP alliances (that provide money, sell weapons, etc).

I see where you are coming from but it should be entirely up to my character if i want to go in and help or not , more ooc restrictions are def not the way to improve things rn 

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I agree that something must change about crim rp, mainly because there is nothing to do other than chilling/creating RP (which is the sole reason of this server, yes) and/or shoot enemies the whole day.

10 months ago this server had around 10 gangs if not more, each of them having to talk diplomacy with EACH gang instead of big alliances, holding down labs and chopshops, even solo cooking was a fun thing to do. Which never happens now because apparently fishing is more money when putting in mind the risk/reward factor and diplomacy is never considered cuz people hit others for little to no reason at all (not throwing shade on anyone).

I disagree with the "backing your ally up" being considered fearrp cuz it wouldnt make any sense, especially if my ally is winning that fight or clutching it.

+1 to Jake's reply regarding FM.

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The problem with "criminal rp" comes from the players not the script support. Currently 90% of the players that exist in criminal RP are only present to shoot, loot and win. Once you get rid of this mentality then you will see vast positive developments with how the rp flows. 

Criminal RP has had the most updates targeted to them over the last year+ in the server, however it always ends up in the "stale" state due to the player bases attitudes. Further development will only keep it fresh for a month, where players will then return to their usual mindset. 

I personally disagree that "more" rules should be added into structing criminal rp via FM, as Faction Management already are involved beyond levels I personally believe they should. They often get involved with "reasoning" over single events, let alone focusing on the overall quality and providing constructive feedback to the gangs. Given that the communication is improved, again this will vastly assist in the quality of the rp. Instead of players being afraid to carry out RP in fear of "Punishment". 

To sum it up, players should be focusing on their own "issues" and strive to improve them, instead of worrying about others. Once you've improved yourself and your faction, from there everyone can begin working together to get it into a working state. 

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How to revive crimRP (guide) and some general improvements.

-Switch back to american roleplay instead of european (Remove the nonRP robbery rules, or adjust it so that it creates more RP opportunities.)

-Somehow crim convoys are nonRP now? Why? Back when in PD I got so stoked when I saw a convoy as it gave an enjoyable chase.

-Less faction management involvement as they control all IC actions OOCly

-Make some admins play as crims so that they can actually see how bad it currently is. (Put them in DOC for a week as an inmate and I bet DOC would actually improve)

-Fix DOC stamps so that we can at least poker and have some fun in DOC every now and then.

-Make SD stop driving supercars for no reason (this aint dubai RP)

-Force PD/SD to not always carry their heavy weapons (actually enforce the IC policy) 

-Make PD/SD actually enforce the force continuum (i've seen some shit)

-Fix IA reports, the amount of times cops just straight up lie on it and get away with everything is insane.

-Fix the impeding traffic charge as it is beyond ridiculous and wrong.

-Adjust druglabs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics,etc

-Remove admin factions official status, and actually make them achieve official status like all the other factions that worked extremely hard for it. Make them meet the criteria as all the other factions require. (I've yet to see any good/special RP from these factions.) You guys seem to have no clue on how discouraging it is to become an official faction.

-Make faction management watch some documentaries on crime so that criminal can go back to roleplaying as one instead of the civilians we got turned into.

-bring back the old phone and remove bullet casings to fix the performance.

-Fix the unrealistic way we get injured now, If I fall off a faggio going 5 km/h and get injured, I can't scream or call anyone?  yet 911 is fair? Getting injured has become so unrealistic. I know the agenda behind it was to make injuries more realistic but from what i've actually seen it made it way worse. 

 

If you fix all the above there is no need for Pier/Fish gangsters anymore.

Fishing at pier makes more money then running a druglab right now which is kinda weird.

The only reason I'm still logging in is just because of my friends i got here, Just to talk and vibe since there is barely anything to do anymore.

Edited by NM369
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3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I have posted very similar opinion before, but I think that a very useful change would be a clause in Fear RP rule that would make joining an already in-progress shootout that does not involve your own faction a breach of Fear RP. It would effectively end large gang alliances that are there for shooting purposes, while still allowing RP alliances (that provide money, sell weapons, etc).

+1 It is no fun for both sides 2v2s would be more interesting. On-going conflicts other groups wouldn't randomly pull in to which would be considered fun for example.
LFM AZ VS GROVE BALLAS You wouldn't see Vagos and Bloods pulling in to help. Not only would it stop the laggy disconnections but also give both sides an interesting fun fight's the most that would happen is PD pull in which is fair enough other groups would also be able to stay in their own lane of RP rather than jumping into others fights and asking for help from other random-ass gangs you're a criminal gang it is in your duty to handle yourself not get another 3 4 just because you can't handle your conflict too many groups are falling out of line for others pick your alliance stick with it and do RP with the ones you're not in conflict with...

Limiting Alliances to a max of 2 and only 3rd can come in with very strong reasons.So for example all groups in the server will never be able to all gang up on one this will reduce the number of criminals in mass chases fighting and groups.. hear me out so you have for example Irish Triads vs LFM More blood - That fight is to be between them no other gangs can be involved as they would be neutral.. not allies they have a choice of being neutral/friendly or enemies.. now this would reduce mass chases also a rule of a max of 6 vehicles per chase this could be from 3 bikes 3 cars or 6 bikes but no more than 6.
It would reduce the mass chases.. and also would stop the mass conflicts with unrealistic alliances and give all groups a chance in the server without being ganged upon. if you're not happy with your alliance you would risk dropping it to find a new one.

+1 -Adjust drug labs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics, etc
Bring back the whole cooking in LAB's / Holding it down Solo cooking being fun so people actually want to go to the labs in order to make an income this whole cooking at home I understand can be good however nothing beats chilling in a lab with people holding it down least then criminals would actually have something to do criminal activities are very limited these days kinda annoying
 
+1 On Robbery Rules before we didn't have many officers to the point officers would be overrun by criminals now we have quite a few I think some things should be an IC Issue, for example, you were to rob someone who insulted you or has a gun on them in the middle of the legion square or on a street corner that would be your own risky fault as a passer could see and report you however this shouldn't be an OOC RULE that you cannot rob someone in these locations as it's just limiting the fun, for example, you see someone you know they're a criminal/ active gang member why can't you just pull on them rob them and get off without it having to come to the forums. it is understandable you wouldn't just rob someone at a gas station in the middle of the street who you didn't know or was a legal worker in order to rob them you would figure out who they were by talking to them then you just hop off your bike/car hands them up strip them quickly and get off this is also their own fault for their own IC conflict people these days are too worried about reporting someone for taking their shit knowing that it's their own fault as a player.

Edited by JayG
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The “crim rp is dead” is just boring at this point.

RP is what you make of it, adding “ATMs” won’t be some sort of magical fix like the other things you suggested.

If you’re bored it’s your problem not anybody else’s, change things up and maybe perceive your RP in a different way.

Also if you don’t see 10 gangs on a frequency A problem Idon’t know what to tell you, you’re only apart of them problem when it comes to criminals as it only shows a win mentality rather than actually good RP.

Edited by Dara orkonson
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1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-Make SD stop driving supercars for no reason (this aint dubai RP)

If a criminal is breaking the law and then evading in the likes of a comet retro custom or maybe a banshee 900R, a reasonable response would be to deploy the likes of a T20 or an 811, high speeds are not deployed for no reason.

1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-Force PD/SD to not always carry their heavy weapons (actually enforce the IC policy) 

The average criminal carries a weapon on them, why shouldn't PD?

1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-Make PD/SD actually enforce the force continuum (i've seen some shit)

This is enforced via IA and there have been some recent warnings handed out by PD to their officers due to officers breaking force continuum.

1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-Fix IA reports, the amount of times cops just straight up lie on it and get away with everything is insane.

The IA system relies on proof, if you don't have proof then what can you do? Its innocent till proven guilty. 

1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-Remove admin factions official status, and actually make them achieve official status like all the other factions that worked extremely hard for it. Make them meet the criteria as all the other factions require. (I've yet to see any good/special RP from these factions.) You guys seem to have no clue on how discouraging it is to become an official faction.

The reason you don't see roleplay from the likes of LFB, is because they are ghost organisations that sit at the top of the food chain within the underworld, I can vouch for the fact that they have unique and interesting roleplay, the leaders of most official gangs have met with the leaders of LFB in-character. LFB are there to monitor criminal organisations in-character then reprimand factions in-character, for example when Triads and Aztecas began shooting it up in the city and engaging on LEOs not so long ago, LFB reacted by removing their access to import weapons as a direct result of their actions. 

1 hour ago, NM369 said:

-bring back the old phone and remove bullet casings to fix the performance.

The phone is fine and the bullet casings and deformed bullets give detectives a better environment to conduct investigative roleplay. 

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31 minutes ago, Dara orkonson said:

The “crim rp is dead” is just boring at this point.

RP is what you make of it, adding “ATMs” won’t be some sort of magical fix like the other things you suggested.

If you’re bored it’s your problem not anybody else’s, change things up and maybe perceive your RP in a different way.

Also if you don’t see 10 gangs on a frequency A problem Idon’t know what to tell you, you’re only apart of them problem when it comes to criminals as it only shows a win mentality rather than actually good RP.

your comment has complete bias towards your own experience when the thread is explicitly about server wide improvement, you can not ICly make rivals then  complain when they outnumber you, and instead should go for diplomacy or accepting IC consequences even if they're not in your favor. there's never 10 gangs on one frequency, this thread was not made to discuss what you don't like ICly or what consequences you deal with for IC actions, but it was made to improve criminal roleplay from Staff's side. thank you

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46 minutes ago, KCAJ said:

I don’t care about how many gangs are together on one freq I’d rather just have old labs back and 2019 rules so that people aren’t getting Non RPs for robbing someone for a gun/car.

Labs were indeed a huge factor and contributor to criminal RP, and are unfortunately dead rn so +1

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1 hour ago, JayG said:

+1 It is no fun for both sides 2v2s would be more interesting. On-going conflicts other groups wouldn't randomly pull in to which would be considered fun for example.
LFM AZ VS GROVE BALLAS You wouldn't see Vagos and Bloods pulling in to help. Not only would it stop the laggy disconnections but also give both sides an interesting fun fight's the most that would happen is PD pull in which is fair enough other groups would also be able to stay in their own lane of RP rather than jumping into others fights and asking for help from other random-ass gangs you're a criminal gang it is in your duty to handle yourself not get another 3 4 just because you can't handle your conflict too many groups are falling out of line for others pick your alliance stick with it and do RP with the ones you're not in conflict with...

Limiting Alliances to a max of 2 and only 3rd can come in with very strong reasons.So for example all groups in the server will never be able to all gang up on one this will reduce the number of criminals in mass chases fighting and groups.. hear me out so you have for example Irish Triads vs LFM More blood - That fight is to be between them no other gangs can be involved as they would be neutral.. not allies they have a choice of being neutral/friendly or enemies.. now this would reduce mass chases also a rule of a max of 6 vehicles per chase this could be from 3 bikes 3 cars or 6 bikes but no more than 6.
It would reduce the mass chases.. and also would stop the mass conflicts with unrealistic alliances and give all groups a chance in the server without being ganged upon. if you're not happy with your alliance you would risk dropping it to find a new one.

+1 -Adjust drug labs so they have around the same passive income as PD/SD/mechanics, etc
Bring back the whole cooking in LAB's / Holding it down Solo cooking being fun so people actually want to go to the labs in order to make an income this whole cooking at home I understand can be good however nothing beats chilling in a lab with people holding it down least then criminals would actually have something to do criminal activities are very limited these days kinda annoying
 
+1 On Robbery Rules before we didn't have many officers to the point officers would be overrun by criminals now we have quite a few I think some things should be an IC Issue, for example, you were to rob someone who insulted you or has a gun on them in the middle of the legion square or on a street corner that would be your own risky fault as a passer could see and report you however this shouldn't be an OOC RULE that you cannot rob someone in these locations as it's just limiting the fun, for example, you see someone you know they're a criminal/ active gang member why can't you just pull on them rob them and get off without it having to come to the forums. it is understandable you wouldn't just rob someone at a gas station in the middle of the street who you didn't know or was a legal worker in order to rob them you would figure out who they were by talking to them then you just hop off your bike/car hands them up strip them quickly and get off this is also their own fault for their own IC conflict people these days are too worried about reporting someone for taking their shit knowing that it's their own fault as a player.

Limiting alliances does not make sense I.M.O , again less OOC restrictions and allow people to play and RP the way they want to, if you want to be in a crew and hit 4 gangs, don't complain about 4 gangs hitting you at once, instead take your fights tactically and do not make enemies with multiple groups unless you have the power to fight it out, otherwise you're pretty much beat and its all due to IC decisions, and I will say again this is a thread made to improve criminal RP in terms of rules, FM involvement, and from staff's side, not to complain about IC consequences from IC actions.

 

+1 on the robbery rules as they became an invisible shield people use and abuse rather than something added to improve roleplay

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34 minutes ago, Solomun said:

The current suggested fix to the absolutely dead criminal scene right now is just hoping for continuous updates, as per what Shen Wong said the current thought process is just to hype up X update and hope it's a fix for everything that's wrong, we've had turf updates, we've had robbery rules, the list goes on, to suggest a update will fix the shit state of crim is to suggest rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic would save it, use your brain please!

the suggestion isnt bringing out script related updates solely, but possibly readjusting and looking into lots of rules, and change the way staff intervenes in RP scenario and a possible solution would be having a new division in staff called Gang Management which consists of staff members with a real criminal experience on the server 

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4 minutes ago, Solomun said:

Sure, there's certainly utility to having conversations about rules - but people preaching about script updates as the end all saviour to the current state lack the brain capacity to engage in productive conversation. 

In regards to Management, I think this is probably the best suggestion, however "Gang Management" being comprised of those staff members with criminal experience, I don't think there is any people that can fill that position 🙂 There seems to be a huge disconnect between Management/Staff  & Criminals. Removing FM from the position of big brother seems like a likely argument that deserves attention.

Yeah I've stated multiple times on the beginning of the thread, that thread updates are not the main purpose of this script (However labs can be a very good contributor for improvement) 

The disconnect is unfortunately HUGE, - Gang management could possibly become a thing if worked on by the server owners / higher staff . But with all the respect, having people who never RP as crim, make decisions for crim players will do no good to the community overall, at the end of the day Managing "Factions" such as legal factions etc is a huge difference than Gangs, and I really feel criminal roleplay on this server is big enough to have a specific staff division with the purpose of handling their matters, and I've once said on a previous thread "Eclipse is where it's at today because of the way things used to be for the longest time and how fun the server was for both gangs, and solo crims and PD "

Edited by CalvinKlein
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It has been stated in the past that Faction Management is a reactionary group. We speak to the factions we handle, hear questions/concerns, provide feedback and try to maintain communication and understanding. Faction Management in whole is not individual members of staff who just do as they please. There are internal discussions as a team where topics that have been presented are discussed, matters investigated, etc. and senior members of staff do also give their thoughts/concerns as well - this includes Head Administrators. As FM, we handle all player made factions in efforts to assist in maintaining standards expressed and decided upon following multiple meetings with various groups. I would highly recommend gaining more insight into how Faction Management actually functions prior to making surface claims and suggestions regarding this specific group of staff.

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The continuation of these threads is evident, and 90% of them preach a rule change as well as a looser approach to robberies, the reintroduction of labs and so on. If we're objective for just a minute you would most definitely notice that the rules, server changes and faction management are not the issue, yet the players themselves. Let's be real, gang roleplay isn't gang roleplay anymore, it's just a few screenshots for your thread and the rest is cooking, robbing and shooting (correct me if I'm wrong here). Nothing original came up for a while now, people make gangs for the sole purpose of allying a bigger gang and base their existence on that which is ridiculous to me. Now that all of the action is gone people go back to the forums and deface the work faction management does, blame the poor ruling and include law enforcement as the issue as well in hopes 'crim rp' makes a breakthrough and you can finally rob someone in the middle of the street once again, please. Let's all start by bettering ourselves first before going out and blaming everyone else for your poorly planned actions.

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@Solomun - As has been stated to factions that have handlers, they are free to bring up any and all concerns to their handler team to then be discussed among Faction Management and fellow staff in escalating discussions should it be needed. Speaking for myself, not a single faction I manage has come to me or their team with topics of discussion or concern about Faction Management. Should you be in a faction with handlers I highly encourage you to bring up concerns with your High Command to then speak to handlers. That is the proper way to go about further discussion and potential changes within FM.

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8 minutes ago, kris giggs said:

The continuation of these threads is evident, and 90% of them preach a rule change as well as a looser approach to robberies, the reintroduction of labs and so on. If we're objective for just a minute you would most definitely notice that the rules, server changes and faction management are not the issue, yet the players themselves. Let's be real, gang roleplay isn't gang roleplay anymore, it's just a few screenshots for your thread and the rest is cooking, robbing and shooting (correct me if I'm wrong here). Nothing original came up for a while now, people make gangs for the sole purpose of allying a bigger gang and base their existence on that which is ridiculous to me. Now that all of the action is gone people go back to the forums and deface the work faction management does, blame the poor ruling and include law enforcement as the issue as well in hopes 'crim rp' makes a breakthrough and you can finally rob someone in the middle of the street once again, please. Let's all start by bettering ourselves first before going out and blaming everyone else for your poorly planned actions.

Your perception is kinda off to be honest, you are correct with how players are there to blame, but we are here to discuss things that can't be changed since you can't really change some players' attitudes - But you can change some of the points mentioned if you had the power to do so, Law enforcement is not perfect and I believe there's issues with it, however that is neither the main concern nor point of this thread, So with labs being dead, cooking being "not worth it", robberies, IC rivalries being ruleplayed, what do you do as a crim - assuming you want to actively be one not passively, and by passively I mean a member of a huge gang sitting at pier fishing until there's "something going on" to attend to.

 

You also can not tell me the issue with crim RP is that EVERY single crim [ Lots and Lots are becoming inactive / quitting the server] are the sole problem here

Edited by CalvinKlein
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2 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

@CalvinKlein - As this is a suggestion thread and not a discussion thread I would also advise you to be more specific in regards to what you are very clearly suggesting for server implementation. I will also suggest you take a look at other suggestions in different subsections and providing support there.

I am trying my best to quote people on the suggestions I find realistic and add my feedback to it 😄

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