Let players rob anywhere again. (apart from NCZ's obviously)

[CodyCaddel]

It's no secret that crim life is in the shitter right now. There's so many rules you have to watch out for as a crim, alongside people reporting for petty things, it's never been easier to be banned for a few mistakes. The fact that we can't rob people wherever we want, and we're expected to assume there's invisible people around us watching just because its a workplace or a semi populated area isn't fun. I should be able to decide the risk vs reward for something based on ACTUAL civilians & PD etc, not RPly. It's just not fun in its current state and I might not be playing for much longer if things don't get better. I love the server, but why is this a thing? 80% of the map now feels like a no crime zone and it's getting to the point where I just don't wanna play.

I get it, social interaction was the main reason for this change, but to be honest, people are still scared if they're out in the open and you pull up to them.

Edited October 19, 2020 by CodyCaddel

[CaesarSeizure]

-1 The robbery rule was a big boost to civilian RP, allowing people to not fear that they will just be robbed at any point for a burger and a GPS. It was partly due to that rule that the pier became a social hotspot, moving people away from always being at the bank.

The robberies that were happening before the rule was implemented were basically the lowest form of RP on the server. Hands, frisk, leave, maybe toss in some /b. People who were robbing didn't really get much and it was just an inconvenience for the people getting robbed.

[CodyCaddel]

Just now, CaesarSeizure said:

-1 The robbery rule was a big boost to civilian RP, allowing people to not fear that they will just be robbed at any point for a burger and a GPS. It was partly due to that rule that the pier became a social hotspot, moving people away from always being at the bank.

The robberies that were happening before the rule was implemented were basically the lowest form of RP on the server. Hands, frisk, leave, maybe toss in some /b. People who were robbing didn't really get much and it was just an inconvenience for the people getting robbed.

But now where can crims rob? Pretty much no-where it seems.

[SamStark]

Completely agree Cody. Think this is just part of the bigger issue that playing as a Crim isn't what it was. Crims need a buff in some way and this could be it. Playing as a Crim now feels so limited and really isn't even worth it. Take chopping cars, you'll be lucky to get more than 4k, the time and risk associated with this doesn't even make it worth it, the chance of getting into a police chase, which would almost definitely involve the helicopter making it unescapable, is too high for it to be worth it.

Plus then all of the restrictions on where you can commit crime, playing as a crim isn't viable. 

[Shimo]

A criminal in the real world wouldn't just decide to rob someone in a clothing store randomly. While yes, it does happen in real life, its a reaaaaally tiny chance of happening, whereas on the server, it would happen pretty much all the time and it got out of hand. This rule has probably increased and promoted more social and civilian roleplay. A really strong example is the pier. Previously, that was a hotspot to get robbed, however now it's basically what the bank used to be. 

At the end of it all, we are here to roleplay and have fun, not ruin another player's experience while they're just trying to chill and buy clothes or refuel their vehicle. There are a lot of places you can perform robberies, GTA V has a massive map, including a lot of secluded locations where players find themselves.

Criminal RP is not meant to be an easy role - almost anyone could just get a gun, find someone at a clothing store, say hands, rob them and drive away, which is something you can no longer do. To perform a robbery now, you need to plan it out and have a realistic process towards it. 

I do not believe the rule needs a change, from a civilian / medic perspective. 

[mikebumbum]

the rule does need to change for crim on crim robberies as i shouldnt be in constant conflict with someone but cant rob them at a store.

[CodyCaddel]

38 minutes ago, Shimo said:

A criminal in the real world wouldn't just decide to rob someone in a clothing store randomly. While yes, it does happen in real life, its a reaaaaally tiny chance of happening, whereas on the server, it would happen pretty much all the time and it got out of hand. This rule has probably increased and promoted more social and civilian roleplay. A really strong example is the pier. Previously, that was a hotspot to get robbed, however now it's basically what the bank used to be. 

At the end of it all, we are here to roleplay and have fun, not ruin another player's experience while they're just trying to chill and buy clothes or refuel their vehicle. There are a lot of places you can perform robberies, GTA V has a massive map, including a lot of secluded locations where players find themselves.

Criminal RP is not meant to be an easy role - almost anyone could just get a gun, find someone at a clothing store, say hands, rob them and drive away, which is something you can no longer do. To perform a robbery now, you need to plan it out and have a realistic process towards it. 

I do not believe the rule needs a change, from a civilian / medic perspective. 

I'm sick of the comparisons to real life. It's a game, not real life. The most fun to be had on the server if you like PvP and robbing people is well, robbing people and PvP. That accounts for a LARGE amount of people on the server. 

Do medics fix you IRL by driving the ambulance to a medical centre and then you pop out instantly fixed?

Do cops have about 7 PD's in a small city IRL?

There's a lot of things that aren't realistic in the game, and it doesn't need to be, because it's a game.

It's a terrible idea to have limited criminals in such a way where they don't want to do anything anymore.

 

The main reason I like RAGEMP is because EVERYONE is a player that you see. I don't want to have to account for invisible witnesses when robbing someone.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by CodyCaddel

[Ash]

-1

I can understand crim might be difficult for people right now for various reasons but this absolutely is not the reason nor solution for it.
As Caesar said, the rule implementation was a HUGE civ RP buff. Before it was implemented you couldn't visit clothes stores (even the one down the road from Mission Row PD), refill your gas, buy food without needing to watch your back for fear of getting robbed which was awful as someone RPing a legal civillian. Especially when the height of the 'roleplay' was "*points gun at you* /me frisks them /do s?" which just isn't roleplay, it made it seem more like a cops and robbers server. The rule change allows for much more social civillian RP.

Plus there's the other benefits such as new social hotspots like the pier as opposed to everyone being at the bank, which wouldn't be the case if people could just rob with no repercussions at somewhere that would realistically be populated. 

Sure, if i wander into the wrong part of town, or into a shady area or the middle of nowhere or a gang hotspot as a civillian I should, and do get robbed.

On 10/19/2020 at 4:15 PM, CodyCaddel said:

I'm sick of the comparisons to real life. It's a game, not real life. The most fun to be had on the server if you like PvP and robbing people is well, robbing people and PvP. That accounts for a LARGE amount of people on the server.

 

That statement is VERY assumptious. There are many forms of roleplay and a lot was limited by the old way of robbery. The people who like PVP have PD/SD/Gangs to join with dedicated opposing factions. I think there's no need for people who want to have some more civillian roleplay to be punished for those who are here for a PvP experience. At the end of the day, the server should accommodate all types of roleplay as much as it can and this rule was a step in that direction. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by DrPathetic

[Illmohim]

Extreme fat +1

its no lie crim rp isnt the best at the moment aswell as criminals cant rob many places, all i see are legals that are commenting saying -1 no offence to them but crim is hard when there are many restrictions. i understand where everyong comes from but getting robbed in places like that should be allowed.

[Speed Racer]

On 10/19/2020 at 11:15 AM, CodyCaddel said:

I'm sick of the comparisons to real life. It's a game, not real life. The most fun to be had on the server if you like PvP and robbing people is well, robbing people and PvP. That accounts for a LARGE amount of people on the server. 

Do medics fix you IRL by driving the ambulance to a medical centre and then you pop out instantly fixed?

Do cops have about 7 PD's in a small city IRL?

There's a lot of things that aren't realistic in the game, and it doesn't need to be, because it's a game.

It's a terrible idea to have limited criminals in such a way where they don't want to do anything anymore.

 

The main reason I like RAGEMP is because EVERYONE is a player that you see. I don't want to have to account for invisible witnesses when robbing someone.

 

Really just sounds like you're here to shoot and grief, not to RP.

 

Moderately sized -1

[ErickzTV]

Yeah i'd have to -1 this as well. From the reviews I've read on steam apparently the community had an issue in the past with the criminal activity starting to hinder any kind of actual normal role play between people. People are complaining saying this is a game not real life and you're absolutely correct on that but you do also have to realize the kind of server you're on. This is a strict role playing server that's trying to bring the immersion of real life to people genuinely trying to develop their character. Crimnal RP should be difficult, you should try to adjust and find a new method to robbing people that still works with the rules GTA is a big map. 

[Jbacon]

On 10/19/2020 at 12:15 PM, CodyCaddel said:

I'm sick of the comparisons to real life. It's a game, not real life. The most fun to be had on the server if you like PvP and robbing people is well, robbing people and PvP. That accounts for a LARGE amount of people on the server. 

Do medics fix you IRL by driving the ambulance to a medical centre and then you pop out instantly fixed?

Do cops have about 7 PD's in a small city IRL?

There's a lot of things that aren't realistic in the game, and it doesn't need to be, because it's a game.

It's a terrible idea to have limited criminals in such a way where they don't want to do anything anymore.

 

The main reason I like RAGEMP is because EVERYONE is a player that you see. I don't want to have to account for invisible witnesses when robbing someone.

 

I appreciate your concern about our pd members and groups. The state of San Andreas is not a small populated area and is made to mimic Los Angelas (how ever you spell it) as such based on the LAPD, vs LSPD, we are understaffed compared to the population of what would rply be in this city, and based on crime rates.
If one was to use serious crime rate vs PD members and than translate that ratio to our server... you would find that we need what would equate to 5 officers on duty per civilian to match the LAPD crime-officer ratio.

The 7 pd's your taking to... There are 2 departments, each with multiple branches, these are not separate entities and are governed and monitored by the members of City Hall. 

I am a strong support of the robbing rule, it was ridiculous getting a 911 call "i've been robbed at LSC" we get there and there are 30people there saying they witnessed it... Sorry but a smart criminal isn't gonna rob someone in a busy place, either in game or in real life... there is a reason my criminal has only been arrested 3 times in 3 years.... and has committed more crimes then i can recall. This rule has opened up so many avenues for civilians and criminals alike to interact and rather then just shoot, talk.

Eclipse is not intended as a PVP server... you want that go to GTA online! Folks that join Eclipse with the intention of staying are here to Roleplay... not just shoot. I would take a good RP situation over a shoot out any-day. Truly enjoy a nice long conversation with some RP thrown in and a story... especially when compared to the old robbery system of "Hands up this is ROBBB, you have 3 seconds.... 1....2....3" BANG BANG... press I (now search) take stuff... run.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Jbacon
spelling

[mikebumbum]

3 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

I appreciate your concern about our pd members and groups. The state of San Andreas is not a small populated area and is made to mimic Los Angelas (how ever you spell it) as such based on the LAPD, vs LSPD, we are understaffed compared to the population of what would rply be in this city, and based on crime rates.
If one was to use serious crime rate vs PD members and than translate that ratio to our server... you would find that we need what would equate to 5 officers on duty per civilian to match the LAPD crime-officer ratio.

The 7 pd's your taking to... There are 2 departments, each with multiple branches, these are not separate entities and are governed and monitored by the members of City Hall. 

I am a strong support of the robbing rule, it was ridiculous getting a 911 call "i've been robbed at LSC" we get there and there are 30people there saying they witnessed it... Sorry but a smart criminal isn't gonna rob someone in a busy place, either in game or in real life... there is a reason my criminal has only been arrested 3 times in 3 years.... and has committed more crimes then i can recall. This rule has opened up so many avenues for civilians and criminals alike to interact and rather then just shoot, talk.

Eclipse is not intended as a PVP server... you want that go to GTA online! Folks that join Eclipse with the intention of staying are here to Roleplay... not just shoot. I would take a good RP situation over a shoot out any-day. Truly enjoy a nice long conversation with some RP thrown in and a story... especially when compared to the old robbery system of "Hands up this is ROBBB, you have 3 seconds.... 1....2....3" BANG BANG... press I (now search) take stuff... run.

 

This rule has effected gang conflicts as a whole at the same time. I agree that civs shouldn't be robbed for no reason as it gets ridiculous. But at the same time if im at war with a gang or having constant conflict and i see them at a store by themselves there is no reason i shouldn't be able to rob them. It gives gangs basically a continuous NCZ around them which i think is unacceptable. 

This rule needs to be relooked at for criminals in general dont want to be robbed dont join a gang it comes with the gang life.

Also Jay if that crim character doesnt have at least 50 days played over those 3 years i wouldn't count that. Being in a big gang is a lot different then being your average criminal committing petty crimes. Im not sure what gangs that character has been in as ive never met them but for someone playing strictly crim for over a year with almost 100 days played i can tell you rules like this are slowly deteriorating the crim side of the server and almost every single criminal can agree. 

Change needs to come and it would be nice if PD members would look in from our side rather then thinking all of us just play to shoot and don't have consistent RP to back the reasoning for our actions.

 

[ErickzTV]

3 minutes ago, mikebumbum said:

This rule has effected gang conflicts as a whole at the same time. I agree that civs shouldn't be robbed for no reason as it gets ridiculous. But at the same time if im at war with a gang or having constant conflict and i see them at a store by themselves there is no reason i shouldn't be able to rob them. It gives gangs basically a continuous NCZ around them which i think is unacceptable. 

This rule needs to be relooked at for criminals in general dont want to be robbed dont join a gang it comes with the gang life.

Also Jay if that crim character doesnt have at least 50 days played over those 3 years i wouldn't count that. Being in a big gang is a lot different then being your average criminal committing petty crimes. Im not sure what gangs that character has been in as ive never met them but for someone playing strictly crim for over a year with almost 100 days played i can tell you rules like this are slowly deteriorating the crim side of the server and almost every single criminal can agree. 

Change needs to come and it would be nice if PD members would look in from our side rather then thinking all of us just play to shoot and don't have consistent RP to back the reasoning for our actions.

 

Now when we start getting into gang conflicts I can see possibly changing some things to allow criminal activities like that in certain places against other gang members your in conflict with. This would have to be implemented into a whole policy for gang conflicts that allows for such things.

[Jbacon]

2 hours ago, mikebumbum said:

This rule has effected gang conflicts as a whole at the same time. I agree that civs shouldn't be robbed for no reason as it gets ridiculous. But at the same time if im at war with a gang or having constant conflict and i see them at a store by themselves there is no reason i shouldn't be able to rob them. It gives gangs basically a continuous NCZ around them which i think is unacceptable. 

This rule needs to be relooked at for criminals in general dont want to be robbed dont join a gang it comes with the gang life.

Also Jay if that crim character doesnt have at least 50 days played over those 3 years i wouldn't count that. Being in a big gang is a lot different then being your average criminal committing petty crimes. Im not sure what gangs that character has been in as ive never met them but for someone playing strictly crim for over a year with almost 100 days played i can tell you rules like this are slowly deteriorating the crim side of the server and almost every single criminal can agree. 

Change needs to come and it would be nice if PD members would look in from our side rather then thinking all of us just play to shoot and don't have consistent RP to back the reasoning for our actions.

 

Mike i use to run the original Irish back in the days of Irish, and Exiled running the city, that criminal has plenty of play time, and isn't as active as i use to be on him as the criminal life well, I got tired of being robbed for going into a general store and my radio, phone battery and food gets stolen, kinda ruined it. Whilst I can not speak to the day to day life of criminals, but a criminal that is self conscious and doesn't want to go to jail for a life sentence. (which murder should be) Isn't about to walk into a clothing store to rob someone of a burger, radio and a water... just doesn't make sense, even as a criminal.

Back when I was a gang member we avoided actions around where we would be seen doing them, made sure no one was around, made plans not just on a whim, that being said the server was less populated and silly crimes didn't happen like they do now. PD duty was quite most evenings where you'd have 20mins of no calls... now days, if there is 10calls pending to get answers then its a slow day.

If folks were to act according to witnesses and such then I don't think this would be an issue to put it back in place, that being said there are to many players that don't care, and will just rob anyone, anywhere. 

I guess you would need to offer some form of policing for abuse of the robbery rule in said conflicts, you cant say that it makes sense for you to attempt to rob someone over a burger or a t-shirt in a clothing store, or a general store that has video surveillance. Currently with the CCTV system we need to actively be watching it to catch a crime, and a witness needs to be able to provide an id so we can /ldo for the investigation.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Jbacon

[Roderick]

Definitely a big fat no from my side on how you've written this up.

Yes, I do realize the criminal side of roleplay in ECRP is under pressure right now. However, if you want to find a way to make the criminal side of roleplay more worthwile, I would suggest finding another way than to rob civilian roleplayers for a radio and a bottle of water. The robbery change was, in my humble opinion, the best rulechange ECRP has ever seen. Civilians fearing for their stuff if they would buy a pair of jeans or when filling their gas tank up, only to have a sports car drive up behind them and hear "hands hands hands": is that what you're really aiming for here?

Even after this rulechange I have been robbed a few times (which is quite impressive considering I'm basically always on faction duty in a crowded place), but it worked because the robberies were thought out beforehand. And these robberies still happen - you will just need a bit of planning and some ideas.

[mikebumbum]

7 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

Mike i use to run the original Irish back in the days of Irish, and Exiled running the city, that criminal has plenty of play time, and isn't as active as i use to be on him as the criminal life well, I got tired of being robbed for going into a general store and my radio, phone battery and food gets stolen, kinda ruined it. Whilst I can not speak to the day to day life of criminals, but a criminal that is self conscious and doesn't want to go to jail for a life sentence. (which murder should be) Isn't about to walk into a clothing store to rob someone of a burger, radio and a water... just doesn't make sense, even as a criminal.

Back when I was a gang member we avoided actions around where we would be seen doing them, made sure no one was around, made plans not just on a whim, that being said the server was less populated and silly crimes didn't happen like they do now. PD duty was quite most evenings where you'd have 20mins of no calls... now days, if there is 10calls pending to get answers then its a slow day.

If folks were to act according to witnesses and such then I don't think this would be an issue to put it back in place, that being said there are to many players that don't care, and will just rob anyone, anywhere. 

I guess you would need to offer some form of policing for abuse of the robbery rule in said conflicts, you cant say that it makes sense for you to attempt to rob someone over a burger or a t-shirt in a clothing store, or a general store that has video surveillance. Currently with the CCTV system we need to actively be watching it to catch a crime, and a witness needs to be able to provide an id so we can /ldo for the investigation.

nah I 100% agree with you robberies of civs shouldn't be happening at least not in open places but I still think if you are in a gang my gang doesn't like or if we have problems with you that if I catch you at a store with a gun i should be able to run down on you. Look at places with gang violence people will rob people on sidewalks or in front of stores. Does it get excessive on the game? Sure but at the same time if criminals cant rob other criminals except for at labs that people don't even use anymore because of the new tables then it completely ruins a major portion of criminal RP.

There is a reason criminals wear masks to avoid being caught by things like cameras etc.

Criminals have lost alot of potential RP over the past few months and this is why you see so much tension as of recent on the criminal side people are bored. They don't have a job like PD to keep them entertained for the day. We need some old things to come back and some new things to be added or crim RP will eventually get ruined. With no crims it leaves cops with nothing to do but catch petty crimes or just giving speeding tickets. It's something that needs to be talked about and actually looked at on a broader scale and looking at things like this rule and the updated NLR rule is definitely a start

[Ranger]

+1/-1

I don't really think it needs to be reverted, but maybe just modified. I believe it would be cool to see a Day/Night robbery change, where during the day robberies would need to be limited to "In the middle of nowhere places", while at night, the rules are a bit more lenient on where robberies can happen. IRL, people commit more robberies and petty crimes during the night time. Maybe making a rule where "From XX:XX-XX:XX you can commit crimes in the open on sidewalks (As it would be dark and not to many people would realistically be outside to witness crimes), and from XX:XX-XX:XX you have to be a bit more careful with robberies". The high-risk/low reward rules should still be set in place as well.

[MrJangoon]

On 10/19/2020 at 7:46 PM, CodyCaddel said:

But now where can crims rob? Pretty much no-where it seems.

maybe if you actually thought for 0.002 ms you would realise that all you have to do is get someone into an alleyway or other dark and unseen place. Literally all you have to do.

also, tell me something, how often do you go down to the gas station and see 7 people robbing one man, that too on a daily basis?