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kenichis

/carrybody should show an /ame

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I've seen a lot of people get warned for not using /me and /do when trying to carry people. Yes it does promote good RP but rarely does it ever happen and usually it only goes like this:

/me tries to carry the man

/do s?

/do s

No RP has been added simply by forcing people to use /me and /do before attempting to carry someone. To streamline it should just be an automatic /ame when you do the command but maybe put an action timer of 3-5 seconds.

It doesn't hurt anyone to add it, people who want to RP resisting could still do it. But its just my speculation, I could also think of plenty of reasons not to do so, but let me know what you think.

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7 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

So a ruling was made on this, I am fairly certain that it was that when a person is incapacitated they are in no position to fight back. This was the reasoning for allowing no rp looting so I would assume it applies to carrying them because an AME is done when you use the command and the /do is unnecessary as they cannot fight back while injured... Right now people have been doing the /me /do and it isnt wrong, and it is courteous, but it is not required from my understanding...

This was a report I made a while ago. In the report, moderator Brawnkoh warned (verbally) my friend for using /carrybody without any /me and /do, ruling that it was minor PG. Usually if I was in the injured situation being unconscious / heavily wounded RPly I would just state in /do auto success to everything since I am incapacitated, however aparently it is still punishable since there is no /ame put out (currently)

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Yah theres a big difference between going in someones pockets and taking stuff, and dragging a person around forcefully and stuffing them in a trunk and driving off.

I actually think the opposite should happen, and you need a /accept command after proper RP to have your body moved.

I've had...on multiple occasions...people grab me up and stuff me in a trunk and go for a joyride laughing hysterically...with an ambulance on the way or even on site. 

It is complete non rp and PG, and should be harder, not easier to ruin people's experience with this sort of RP.

Yes, I get I can go and report it...but it could work the other way as well and they need to report me for NOT accepting the carry.

At least that way I would maintain control of my own character and body...

Edited by Jasmine
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I do think that asking somebody that is injured with /me and /do should be a thing as the person who is already injured has no way to resist and the person picking up the injured player can do whatever they want with that body as they are injured.

6 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

you need a /accept command after proper RP to have your body moved.

Having a /carryapprove is what we need. 

Yes I know that adding a command like that and an action timer would change RP scenarios in a good and a bad way. 

The bad way is that in a shootout you need to approve to be carried and be moved and this will cause a lot of scenarios but carrying somebody that is lying on the floor in real life is not that easy and therefore I do think that there should be a timer also added to the approve command! 

This solution will cause some good RP scenarios!

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I completely see both sides of the fence here, but can I just genuinely ask... If someone injures you down where you physically cant do anything control wise with your character, then how would you be able to resist them picking you up in the first place with a /do reply? The reason you cant move your character about is because your incapacitated, therefore helpless to whatever your attacker(s) wants to do with you - wouldn't this just be a given?

If it were a RL scenario and your knocked down, I cant tell my attacker that I do/don't give them permission to pick me up and drag me about.

I completely see the /me part though, as this is no different then the /me RP we do in jobs around the city (to clock in/out of work for example), so I get that part to the extent that it should be RP what your doing with the body, I just don't understand how a person with no control should still have control.

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28 minutes ago, kenichis said:

This was a report I made a while ago. In the report, moderator Brawnkoh warned (verbally) my friend for using /carrybody without any /me and /do, ruling that it was minor PG. Usually if I was in the injured situation being unconscious / heavily wounded RPly I would just state in /do auto success to everything since I am incapacitated, however aparently it is still punishable since there is no /ame put out (currently)

Thank you for the correction then, it is always hard to catch all the niche rulings because they seem parallel 

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Just to be clear, this is not something I ruled on persay. There was an announcement made June 10th which includes the following statement.

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Carrying bodies & Powergaming

We'd like to inform the community that it is considered power gaming to be randomly or without RP, picking up the body of an injured player. You have to role-play properly with injured players using /me and /do. This is not a new rule, it's only something that seems to have slipped through the cracks for the majority of our players. 

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This is not a new rule, and was in place well before I was ever a mod.

If you'd like to read the announcement, I will link to it below.

 

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17 minutes ago, Brawnkoh said:

Just to be clear, this is not something I ruled on persay. There was an announcement made June 10th which includes the following statement.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carrying bodies & Powergaming

We'd like to inform the community that it is considered power gaming to be randomly or without RP, picking up the body of an injured player. You have to role-play properly with injured players using /me and /do. This is not a new rule, it's only something that seems to have slipped through the cracks for the majority of our players. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not a new rule, and was in place well before I was ever a mod.

If you'd like to read the announcement, I will link to it below.

 

My confusion was where it stood with the ruling on looting a downed player, my misinformation came from thinking /carrybody presented a /ame ^^. I don't carry enough bodies it seems :p. 

All in all I think a /ame should be applied +1 as it seems kind of tedious to do 4 lines of rp for something that is certainly a success... Good suggestion.

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I am also really confused why being injured is ALWAYS considered incapacitated?? Or when this was ruled??

We can talk while injured, interact with medics while injured, use a cell phone while injured, use a radio while injured, during medic RP we can stand and walk while injured we choose the injury when injured, and even lock and unlock vehicles nearby while injured...

We can still be active roleplayers while downed...I see zero reason why we can't attempt to fight off a thief, or refuse to be carried while injured. 

It should be RPd like any other situation, with both parties respecting each others right to have control of their characters and bodies...within the limits of the scenario (of course understanding a downed player would be at a disadvantage).

Anything else is Power Gaming in my mind.

Edited by Jasmine
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8 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

I am also really confused why being injured is considered incapacitated?? Or when this was ruled??

We can talk while injured, interact with medics while injured, use a cell phone while injured, use a radio while injured, during medic RP we can stand and walk while injured we choose the injury when injured, and even lock and unlock vehicles nearby while injured...

We can still be active roleplayers while downed...I see zero reason why we can't attempt to fight off a thief, or refuse to be carried while injured. 

It should be RPd like any other situation, with both parties respecting each others right to have control of their characters and bodies...within the limits of the scenario (of course understanding a downed player would be at a disadvantage).

Anything else is Power Gaming in my mind.

Thank you for your examples @Jasmine. I haven't ever found my character in those situations hence I've never had to deal with it (though understand the current rules in place for it), hence my question on the matter. Seeing it from your point of view in your comments here its obvious that you may be down (unable to move the character), though RP an injury that would EASILY allow you to show resistance to someone just picking you up and moving you freely, so in that case I think its a -1 for sure, and /me /do RP should apply.

Edited by CycloneDavid
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59 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

I am also really confused why being injured is ALWAYS considered incapacitated?? Or when this was ruled??

We can talk while injured, interact with medics while injured, use a cell phone while injured, use a radio while injured, during medic RP we can stand and walk while injured we choose the injury when injured, and even lock and unlock vehicles nearby while injured...

We can still be active roleplayers while downed...I see zero reason why we can't attempt to fight off a thief, or refuse to be carried while injured. 

It should be RPd like any other situation, with both parties respecting each others right to have control of their characters and bodies...within the limits of the scenario (of course understanding a downed player would be at a disadvantage).

Anything else is Power Gaming in my mind.

It was ruled a while back but here is an instance of it enforced. 


Essentially if you are on the ground you are considered injured enough that you would be power gaming if you said a healthy individual was unable to overpower you... If you are suffering from a broken rib and leg from crashing your car, I can believe it would be really silly for anyone to /do no to somebody trying to lift them... Rescue carry is a thing it is basically a fireman's carry and while it may cause more damage to the person it is made to carry panicked, unconscious, or otherwise resisting individuals despite their actions... 

So while currently the command for carrybody does not display a /ame I would assume that is more of an oversight, because if I can stop you from lifting / dragging me, I am pretty sure I could stop someone from rifling through my pockets while I hold a knife... so as long as the original ruling stands I don't see the /do /me system for this anything more than a necessary formality, making a /ame just good practice until rulings change.

Edited by Wizzidy
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RP should always be required.

/ame would be good as it's an action players would see.

Not a fan of Carry/Drag approve/deny during injured status. You can resist RPly by kicking and screaming, but but chance of stopping it after an injury which would require you to visit a hospital is unlikely.

+1 In support of the original topic title..

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32 minutes ago, Xoza said:

RP should always be required.

/ame would be good as it's an action players would see.

Not a fan of Carry/Drag approve/deny during injured status. You can resist RPly by kicking and screaming, but but chance of stopping it after an injury which would require you to visit a hospital is unlikely.

+1 In support of the original topic title..

Have yall ever been injured and someone tries to pick you up and carry you?? 

What are you guys basing this on? 

Ask people who train this stuff, it is not easy and sometimes impossible to carry a body without them helping you do it. (ie balancing on you, holding onto you, helping stand and hang over your shoulder etc.)

And if you have a broke rib, and dude just runs up and tries to grab you up...I promise you are gonna fight them off...it hurts, a lot.

Yall act like a injured person becomes a sack of potatoes you can just grab up and run around with. It is so unrealistic...

And it is powergaming when you do it to someone without taking time to RP it out. Especially when you do it to a civilian who had a minor accident and didn't get shot in the face with a shotgun.

The main reason people are for this, is because it speeds up the combat and crim situations, but someone going down in a firefight is NOT something that only takes 5 seconds to deal with.

Edited by Jasmine
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7 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

 

I'm not saying take away the requirement for RP, however there should be few resistance options while you're injured.

You are correct, carrying a body IRL is not easy, dragging a body as a lot easier and can be done easily even if someone resists.

Here though like a lot of things, it's a little backwards. Drag should require little approval and force you to walk, while carry should require approval.. and still force a slow run. Just like Stabilize should be CPR and CPR should be stabilize or treat/bandage.

The only thing I support is adding an /ame to carrying a body, just like /drag does an /ame. Definitely not removing RP requirement.

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-1 about needing approval to pick up someone as you RP picking up the body and that is the approval no need to have them accept it on top of a /do yes as this can just be another factor to stall like people do with /friskapprove after you RP searching them 

i find that about 80% of people i rob i have to PM or say ooc accept the frisk as they just want to take there time and stall for back up or just waste time after roleplaying /me searches the body /do would i be able to?

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The drag command is too powerful for the entire server pop to have access to. I’m for more rp’ing of course, but I would like to see a compromise where people are allowed to only require full rp consent for enemies. 

Essentially, /ame for the command, but to carry an enemy, you need /do consent 

Edited by Zion Willard
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This is already against the Powergaming rule, as is any forced command without prior roleplay:

Quote
  • Roleplay is required before forceful server commands which may be used without consent from the other party if they are unresponsive and not typing for 30 seconds or more.

I don't think there should be an accept command for an injured player to try and resist being carried, as they are obviously injured and have limited strength, but a /ame wouldn't hurt, not that it should be a priority though.

 

So I'm Neutral on this suggestion 🙂 

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Main reason why it requires RP approval is because it's not always clear how someone got injured. Lets say I rammed into a pole at a high speed and injured myself. Someone coming by and carrying me away without RP, would be a clear case of PG and also it would void any RP I may have set for myself. In this case, I'd probably want to RP'ly be stuck inside the vehicle, trapped and unable to be moved. Someone coming by and yoinking me away would just ruin the whole RP experience. Sure most cases are just people trying to drag others to safety or take their friends to the hospital, but it should still be RP'd properly. If someone injured tries to resist, sometimes they RP'ly can, but would most likely just prolong the inevitable.

As far as /ame goes, I find that some /ame's are not required and I don't think one is needed here. Basically if you can see an animation (pulling out a gun, opening a car door, rolling down a window, talking on the radio, ...) it usually doesn't require RP in my eyes. However there are cases where /ame's are required, like when an officer presses the panic button, when someone takes something from a bag or when you cook up some drugs. Then there are cases that let you do something, but don't have an automatic /ame. This is when you should RP the situation yourself if it's required.

 

Maybe an action timer would be a better addition when you pick up a body.

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