Police use of "X-Ray" is powergaming

[PopTarts]

6 hours ago, cheatonus said:

I was at the observatory. I saw nothing when I go arrested. I was sitting there. Ti's a pretty high spot. I honestly don't think they actually ahd a helicopter out. 

I assume you are talking about the situation with you guys at the observatory street racing then your friends crashing their car killing themselves? I can assure you there was an X-ray unit above as the pilot I watched you all racing following you around giving your location to officers on the ground at that point I maintain an altitude around 1200-1500 ft well above yourselves if you really want I might still have the video saved but I will have to check. Anyway I still don’t get how an X-ray unit is non-rp as we can only have one up in the air we have to file flight logs for every time we take out the helicopter also following strict guidelines on how we operate the helicopter maintaining an altitude of above 700ft in a pursuit and a normal flight level of 1000ft. From an rp stand point the helicopter would be manned with a copilot at all times operating the camera on the bottom of the helicopter which if you watch videos can zoom in quite well seeing vehicles from way above. 

[iRitz]

18 minutes ago, 37hh said:

Typically I ignore these threads and let them play themselves out, but holy SHIT you are wilding out right now.
Are you completely blind in relation to today's crime? I'm sorry but you're speaking like you're from the 1960's right now, you do realize that drug cartels BUILD their own radio towers to communicate correct? Every single gang member on patrol, working, has a walkie talkie at their side. There's a link blow to ONE story, I'll let you search the rest for yourself, if you don't believe members of a cartel use radio's in real life, you are completely blind and have NO clue what you're talking about. I'm gonna let you know something, it may hurt to hear, this super realistic roleplay you're looking for, won't be found daily on this server, and it's not entirely criminals to blame. Coming from someone who's played a character on both sides of this never ending out of character war, ( PO2 in PD, Lieutenant in Los Zetas ) I can definitely say, even your beloved high command, love shootouts, and enjoy winning. It's a video game, and that's what it's always going to be, no matter how hard you shoot for realism, people are here to have fun, this is a hobby, and I can guarantee you there's not a single person who plays daily on this server, making a living from it. Both sides have valid arguments, I've been pulled over for passing an officer, in a passing lane, and he attempted to arrest me for it, this is not realistic, the actions pd involve themselves in, are not realistic. Aiming a gun at someone for not following demands while that person is showing no aggression, with no reason for your weapon to be pulled, will end up with a lawsuit, and your job in the trash can.

To your second point, you truly went out of your way, to say how the hell does this even happen, when speaking about suppressors? AHAHAHAHAH.
Below you'll find two links, one for a suppressor designed specifically for any 12 gauge shotgun, that you can purchase simply by entering credit card details and a shipping address. Suppressors are legal in every single state, 42 of them, you don't even need a permit for. The other link, are suppressors for 5.56, 7.26, handguns, and rifles, any of which can be applied to the commonly used weapons in the server, including the micro smg with an UZI mount. Please, please do your research, a quick google search, before commenting something so ignorant, typically when someone says " (AND MUCH MORE) " in large bold quotes, I'd be quite interested to see what they'd have to say, but after reading what you just said, I'd be embarrassed to dig myself an even deeper hole. Thanks!


https://www.silencershop.com/

https://silencerco.com/salvo-12

https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/radio-tecnico-how-zetas-cartel-took-over-mexico-walkie-talkies/

 

See what I mean by by where everyone stands on different opinions of realistic RP? Those were just examples, calm the fuck down.

The radio towers for cartels is a true statement, but PD doesn’t have the realistic countermeasures for cartels. This is happening within metro limits where apparently gangs have radio towers?

I would believe it if we where located in Mexico City.
 

As for the silencers, it wasn’t a question possibility for the weapons.

 

Are we changing the type of gangs on ecrp?

 

Also believe this thread is pointless. No one will be nerfed... it’s fun to read the ridiculous statements though.

Edited August 19, 2019 by iRitz

[37hh]

5 minutes ago, iRitz said:

 

Are we changing the type of gangs on ecrp?

- Was there ever a set meta for gangs? It's roleplay, players create the world they live in, out of general curiosity, I would like to see what you think gangs should be within the server, based off this statement. Please.

Also believe this thread is pointless. No one will be nerfed... it’s fun to read the ridiculous statements though.
- Hm, criminals just received yet another massive nerf, could you tell me the last time PD received a substantial change in playstyle, that members of LSPD dreaded and felt like they were being punished for the roleplay they were set up to create?
Lastly, most of the ridiculous statements on this thread, sadly came from you, most of the arguments are pretty valid, and for someone who appears to have a month played on the server, you don't realize what players have gone through, to get to where we are.
 

I agree with you however that the thread OP created was pointless, it was silly and OP thought helicopters could see through things, based off hearing it's units callsign. ( lol. ) But I believe the debates this thread created are worth taking note of and are a rather interesting subject that gets a lot of attention on forums, but are never taken any further than just sparking debates.

 

[iRitz]

22 minutes ago, 37hh said:

 

Very well... As you said there is no set meta for gangs, however if we are dealing with cartel level groups then we would have the military or border patrol involved in some way seeing as it’s realistic for them to have radio towers. This is where the split between what is realistic and unrealistic comes into play right?

As for types of gangs, I was referring to the gangs original goal. If they are indeed a cartel then sure makes sense to have radios to communicate while they transport drugs and guns etc... But the gangs I have run into are either just city muggers or mafias, that apparently have the ability to radio for help when held at gunpoint. (We can’t threaten their livelihood for using their radios because well PD.)

But sure, someone being pulled over can say “Yoo I’m being arrested!” while cuffed... behind his back... where his fingers can’t touch the button.

As for gang nerfs, I’m not familiar with them, can you explain so I can better understand your side?

Edited August 19, 2019 by iRitz

[Victor Einhart]

8 hours ago, cheatonus said:

if they don't have anyone available who can pilot a helicopter they should go without aerial surveillance

It's already like this.

[37hh]

2 minutes ago, iRitz said:

Very well... As you said there is no set meta for gangs, however if we are dealing with cartel level groups then we would have the military or border patrol involved in some way seeing as it’s realistic for them to have radio towers. This is where the split between what is realistic and unrealistic comes into play right?
- Well, border patrol would not intervene in military affairs, border patrol guards, as stated by their job title, is to secure their nations borders, while denying the transportation of drugs, weapons, etc, would be part of their job, border patrol agents wouldn't participate in raids throughout the city. The military statement is true, the Mexican marines took part on the arrest of El Chapo, however the US Marines, only assist in guarding the border, not raids. The problem with a military faction is, how different would they be from the current version of LSPD? Seriously no bullshit; The LSPD currently posses heavy weapons that the military would use in cartel raids, Reefer used to walk around with an LMG, until I believe enough people complained that it was beyond unrealistic. Obviously I'm not saying that the LSPD uses weapons and technology that's available in the United State's arsenal, but I'm talking about cartel raids, for the most serious, like the raid on El Chapo, you wouldn't see tanks, cruise missiles, etc. I'd imagine the farthest they'd go would be the use of APC's, MRAP'S, and grenades / under-mounted grenade launchers. These not even being available at the moment due to desync, there's really not much the LSPD currently has, that the military would use to take down these cartels.

As for types of gangs, I was referring to the gangs original goal. If they are indeed a cartel then sure makes sense to have radios to communicate while they transport drugs and guns etc... But the gangs I have run into are either just city muggers or mafias, that apparently have the ability to radio for help when held at gunpoint. (We can’t threaten their livelihood for using their radios because well PD.)
- Like I said man, it's the leaders and members of these gangs who develop their roleplay, Zetas, Triads, are very successful and large criminal organizations, and I personally think these groups do a great job at roleplaying these groups in a general sense, with what the game allows.

But sure, someone being pulled over can say “Yoo I’m being arrested!” while cuffed... behind his back... where his fingers can’t touch the button.
- Non roleplay at it's finest, even the leaders of these gangs would kick members if these were to be true, something a simple forum report could fix.

 

[danlaman]

Hey OP, You do know that a player is driving the heli right? X-ray is just a call-sign.

Do you think That when we talk about a Lincoln unit  on the radio we are talking about Abraham Lincoln and that an Adam unit is just two blokes called Adam?

Please engage brain. PD are moderated in the same way everyone else is. We don't have some superpower to see you and as someone that flys the heli in game I can tell you that its not op. I get evaded all the time by skilled drivers.

 

[Junkfood]

24 minutes ago, danlaman said:

Hey OP, You do know that a player is driving the heli right? X-ray is just a call-sign.

Do you think That when we talk about a Lincoln unit  on the radio we are talking about Abraham Lincoln and that an Adam unit is just two blokes called Adam?

Please engage brain. PD are moderated in the same way everyone else is. We don't have some superpower to see you and as someone that flys the heli in game I can tell you that its not op. I get evaded all the time by skilled drivers.

 

I'm dying.

OT though, X-Ray aka, the helicopter, is something that is just an extra means for PD to be used. IRL you see plenty of videos of crims getting caught, simply because they don't know a helicopter is watching them. X-Ray is simply giving the info to the ground units to ensure, or at least aid in a succesful arrest. You can hear the chopper at certain altitudes, not to mention you can easily see it if your first person (Not in a car though, but still). Aside from that, there are a lot of rules when flying a helicopter, not to mention the logging of the flight reports. It's not something that's up in the air 24/7, and only one can be an X-Ray unit at the same time, which has to properly  communicate Icly with the ground units as well.  I get it's frustrating that it can be hard to spot sometimes though, but so is getting outrun by every drag when your in a cruiser with no X-RAY on duty.
 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Doey

[Balastas]

If they can see you, you can see them. as far as I'm aware, this post is  based on person not getting that XRAY is a helicopter flying above you, not just some kind rp drone with a camera.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Balastas

[smutty]

This must be a joke thread, right? 

[cheatonus]

I'm sorry, if you think it's a joke it's not. How the hell am I supposed to know this is just a code word for helicopter when I don't play a cop character and I didn't see the copter? You should have to keep the heli low enough for players to see and hear.   danlaman (Sharp) your comments towards me are borderline OOC insults, I suggest you change your wording.  Put yourself in someone else's shoes.  How about don't use cop specific language when you're talking to a civilian, and as far as I know if I can't see or hear the chopper you're just making crap up.  Just call it a helicopter.  I legitimately thought X-ray was something you were claiming to be using as evidence without there actually being anything in the sky.  Not everyone has a PD character. 

[Aldarine]

OP, pardon my intrusion, but you began your post by accusing an entire legal faction that is heavily monitored of breaking a server rule (powergaming) with seemingly no effort to seek clarification be it IC or OOC regarding police helicopter protocols so people involved can take this negatively. All in all, this doesn't seem to be a suggestion for the server and more so accusations/discussion. It has already been established that you were referring to the air unit's callsign as there is no magical xray drone in the sky at all times. With the clarification given to your original message, at this point do you have an actual server suggestion you would like us to weigh in on?

[cheatonus]

4 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

OP, pardon my intrusion, but you began your post by accusing an entire legal faction that is heavily monitored of breaking a server rule (powergaming) with seemingly no effort to seek clarification be it IC or OOC regarding police helicopter protocols so people involved can take this negatively. All in all, this doesn't seem to be a suggestion for the server and more so accusations/discussion. It has already been established that you were referring to the air unit's callsign as there is no magical xray drone in the sky at all times. With the clarification given to your original message, at this point do you have an actual server suggestion you would like us to weigh in on?

I wasn't making accusations. I was suggesting that the use of "X-ray" was powergaming in as much as using an unseen, unheard unit to do surveillance in an RP game was pushing the limits of what should be acceptable.  I've since been corrected.  Since I never saw an "x-ray" unit when it was being used against me ICly as evideince it was my assumption it didn't actually exist. Pardon me for using the evidence I had to make an assumption. And the officers involved never once said "helicopter" or "chopper" only "x-ray".  Now I know this is cop talk for a helicopter.  Keep in mind I wasn't actually accusing anyone of rule breaking, I was suggesting that if this is being used as I assumed the situation was that it should be reconsidered as it was akin to powergaming.  There's no need to make someone feel like an idiot when they make a mistake or had a misunderstanding of the situation. You could simply explain and move on.  If I could lock the thread I would at this point, as I've realized my mistake. 

[Aldarine]

4 minutes ago, cheatonus said:

I wasn't making accusations. I was suggesting that the use of "X-ray" was powergaming in as much as using an unseen, unheard unit to do surveillance in an RP game was pushing the limits of what should be acceptable.  I've since been corrected.  Since I never saw an "x-ray" unit when it was being used against me ICly as evideince it was my assumption it didn't actually exist. Pardon me for using the evidence I had to make an assumption. And the officers involved never once said "helicopter" or "chopper" only "x-ray".  Now I know this is cop talk for a helicopter.  Keep in mind I wasn't actually accusing anyone of rule breaking, I was suggesting that if this is being used as I assumed the situation was that it should be reconsidered as it was akin to powergaming.  There's no need to make someone feel like an idiot when they make a mistake or had a misunderstanding of the situation. You could simply explain and move on.  If I could lock the thread I would at this point, as I've realized my mistake. 

We all mistakes as we are only human. Apologies on my end if anything stated by me came off as rude or insensitive. I'm glad we could get the callsign situation cleared. Best wishes to you.

[Flucifial]

Suggestion archived due to a misunderstanding from the creating party.

 

X-RAY is the call-sign of helicopters for the LSPD and the fuel consumption rate is already much higher than a regular vehicle. Helicopters, at the moment, are restricted to flying at a certain altitude unless there are different circumstances, and just like in-real-life, you won't always hear the helicopter depending on the altitude. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion, though.