Nerf Cops

[Amaim]

And what makes you think Police and Criminals are supposed to be equal...on the contrary, Police realistically should be much more stronger than criminals, IRL Police has the numbers which can overwhelm any criminal organization but here in ECRP due to limited number of players, there is 15 criminals for every PD/SD and gangs just team up against PD just for the sake of it, so no it's already imbalanced and the criminal RP is shit with criminals running around unrealistically flashing their big guns driving their super cars (black gangs and street gangs driving super cars mhmm) not playing smart not fearing for their operations or their life.

You want PD/SD to not use high speed vehicles then find a way to make Drags & Sports Cars not so abundant that it's the norm for every single crim out there and disallow crims with bikes just going offroad driving up moutains whenever they are chased by PD/SD which wouldn't be possible in real life unless you are a professional stunt driver.

The moment you stop thinking of interactions with PD/SD as gunfights that you should win and instead enjoy realistically the roleplay as a criminal, I'm pretty sure you won't have a problem at all.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Amaim

[padpilot]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:20 PM, Balastas said:

People running away with super cars and we can't charge them without indentifying? While IRL they get your plate number and if you escape good luck with police at your house and then explaining who was driving your car. 

 

why isnt this a thing though? rather than add to the problem by driving drags and super cars, why not limit the possibility of gang members driving them.

If someone flees from the cops, get the playes. if they have a house, go knock on the house, see what you find. 

/Ido there would be a knock at the door. 

get a warrent if you have to and search the place.

This would promote so much immersive roleplay. There should be a worry of being identified in your own vehicle, you shouldnt commit crimes in your own ride. This problem could be solved, not by simply "well if they drive them, we drive them" mentality but by actually thinking- "well how can we get them to stop using supercars" - which is kinda no rp anyways tbf. 

Or even, take possesion of people vehicles Permanently. 

3 strikes in the same vehicle and it gets confiscated, forever, this will really change the way in whick people decide to use their personnal vehicles for crimes. 

Often policies here seem to compound problems, not actually solve them

Edited November 20, 2019 by padpilot

[Cyrus Raven]

6 hours ago, Jester said:

Bringing this back up because non-police vehicles being used for police work should seriously fall under fail RP. I don't care how much anyone makes. Hakuchou drags are NOT police vehicles. Like mentioned before, a helicopter should be called in for such things...

 

if crims can't use govt vehicles to commit crimes, personal vehicles shoulnd't be used to enforce the law

Let's calm our horses before this turns yet into another PD vs Crims thread. 

Can you answer me a very simple question. Why do you think PD/SD might be using drags or high-speed vehicles ? Do you think there is an IC reason for this or is it just because they felt like it ?

[isBrainDed]

15 minutes ago, padpilot said:

why isnt this a thing though? rather than add to the problem by driving drags and super cars, why not limit the possibility of gang members driving them.

If someone flees from the cops, get the playes. if they have a house, go knock on the house, see what you find. 

/Ido there would be a knock at the door. 

get a warrent if you have to and search the place.

This would promote so much immersive roleplay. There should be a worry of being identified in your own vehicle, you shouldnt commit crimes in your own ride. This problem could be solved, not by simply "well if they drive them, we drive them" mentality but by actually thinking- "well how can we get them to stop using supercars" - which is kinda no rp anyways tbf. 

Or even, take possesion of people vehicles Permanently. 

3 strikes in the same vehicle and it gets confiscated, forever, this will really change the way in whick people decide to use their personnal vehicles for crimes. 

Often policies here seem to compound problems, not actually solve them

I have been proposing big time for this system, but all of that requires script support. 

There are few issues.

1. Currently vehicle is shown as a player in MDC; which means if I scan the plates, I get the owner from it. Instead, vehicles should be separate entities, where we could flag them as being used in felonies / or just be on a lookout in general or issue tickets to the vehicle and not a person ( There have been several confusions when player had 2 vehicles in the map and they thought we ticketed the one they were driving ) . We have a BOLO system for it, but its very lacking, because if the officer who placed BOLO goes offline, they cant comment why the BOLO was placed in more detail and if server restarts all BOLO's are deleted.

2. We don't have access to people residences in MDC, if you scriptly own a house it should be listed somewhere ( just having keys shouldn't ) and there would of course have to be PD/SD policies about it when you can use that information.

 

And there was an addition of scrapyard vehicles, but during my time as PD, I have only seen it used 3 times and that was by new player who didn't know that those vehicle are illegals

[Kencyt_Portugalai]

Nothing will change 

[Jester]

If I'm driving a kuruma, there's no need to call in the big guns. Not like I was running out from a drug lab or a murder call with an elegy...

 

A base level cruiser couldn't catch me because i turned corners too well for him. But i know the high tier cruiser would have sufficed or at least a helicopter. 

 

A hakuchou was overkill and took the piss out of the chase. Their cruisers are OP and boosted enough as it is, that if i could outrun you in a kuruma, it was a matter of skill, not having an Op getaway car. 

 

I've been paced by the high tier cruiser before when i was in a comet and could tell right away that the cop was a skilled driver. Got caught and accepted it. But the drag bike is a load of shit. If you want to talk about the "rEaLiSm" of cops always winning, then factor into the amount of times cops don't chase a single car with 500 cruisers for a traffic violation in real life. 

[Jester]

1 hour ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Let's calm our horses before this turns yet into another PD vs Crims thread. 

Can you answer me a very simple question. Why do you think PD/SD might be using drags or high-speed vehicles ? Do you think there is an IC reason for this or is it just because they felt like it ?

If they think a kuruma is a big enough threat to them to call in a drag bike( something that's known to be ridiculously over powered in regards to mobility) then they have to reevaluate their protocols. 

 

I got away once earlier and hid in a parking structure, but i got too ahead of myself and left before waiting long enough. As soon as i exited the building, a cop was at the other side of the intersection on his drag. I was near weazel when this happened. Not exactly close to PD for them to run back and grab a personal vehicle.

 

That means he was either patrolling with it, or they made a poor judgement call. As mentioned in a previous reply, it was for a traffic violation. Not a drug lab or a murder/shooting. I know even IRL cops would not use such recourses, (legit police equipment or not) for such a thing. 

[Cyrus Raven]

4 minutes ago, Jester said:

If they think a kuruma is a big enough threat to them to call in a drag bike( something that's known to be ridiculously over powered in regards to mobility) then they have to reevaluate their protocols. 

 

I got away once earlier and hid in a parking structure, but i got too ahead of myself and left before waiting long enough. As soon as i exited the building, a cop was at the other side of the intersection on his drag. I was near weazel when this happened. Not exactly close to PD for them to run back and grab a personal vehicle.

 

That means he was either patrolling with it, or they made a poor judgement call. As mentioned in a previous reply, it was for a traffic violation. Not a drug lab or a murder/shooting. I know even IRL cops would not use such recourses, (legit police equipment or not) for such a thing. 

So you've pivoted. 

 

First your claim was that police using drags is unrealistic. However, when pushed on the matter this view is supported by a situation that happened to you while lacking details of what led to that situation. 

 

So I'll ask you again and see if you'll answer this time. Why do you think PD is using drags and high-speed vehicles? 

[Jester]

My point hasn't changed at all. It's been reinforced with the fact that they're going overboard once i gave more details. 

 

I wasn't in a super fast car. 

I hadn't committed a major crime. 

The cop was just a bad driver. 

My answer is they pulled it out because of poor judgement. I'd have accepted the catch if the cop was a decent driver and could keep up. His inability to use the brakes on a turn doesn't mean my method of transportation is OP.

 

I repeat my earlier statement, if govt vehicles can't be used for crimes, personal vehicles shouldn't be used for law enforcement

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jester

[Freclan]

4 minutes ago, Jester said:

My point hasn't changed at all. It's been reinforced with the fact that they're going overboard once i gave more details. 

 

I wasn't in a super fast car. 

I hadn't committed a major crime. 

The cop was just a bad driver. 

My answer is they pulled it out because of poor judgement. I'd have accepted the catch if the cop was a decent driver and could keep up. His inability to use the brakes on a turn doesn't mean my method of transportation is OP.

 

I repeat my earlier statement, if govt vehicles can't be used for crimes, personal vehicles shouldn't be used for law enforcement

do you not understand that it's not supposed to be fair, cops should have a massive advantage.

[isBrainDed]

And its not about using brakes on a turn, its about acceleration. You can brake on a turn and then accelerate back to your previous speed without any issues, where cruisers struggle with that. That is why you can lose cops in the city by turning, because your acceleration is way better than that of a cruiser.

Any decent driver with a sedan or better vehicle should be able to lose cops in the city.

Edited November 20, 2019 by BrainDed

[Jester]

If they want cops to be so OP, then they should have such things made into their official arsenal. Tune the cop bike to function like that.

Because i know for a fact that IC and RPly robbing a bank truck to use its size for ramming is "fail rp" and breaking the rules, but a personal vehicle for law enforcement isn't? It's an ironic one way road. 

 

Everyone is trying to make the argument that IRL cops are supposed to be overpowered and always win.

IRL cops don't use hiabusas with aftermarket modifications on them either so that's a load of crap.

[isBrainDed]

Because people wont be using same car twice IRL to escape in any country with decent police. You are saying you are using vehicle that YOU own to escape, IRL you would have cops at your door 1 hour after the chase. Because that is not possible here, we are adapting the way we are. 

You also have to understand that we cant just tune the vehicles, developers need to do that, so most of the time, until we get server support, we adapt to it.

[THNDR]

I would also like to add the fact about the cars/vehicles on the server. With no IA traffic on the streets, pursuits can get ridiculous. While there has been some good point mentioned here, I would like to add the fact that Los Santos is based of Los Angeles. Now realistically, would you even be able to flee like that in LA. Driving speeds over 200 km/h in the city centre. Realistically you would either get jammed in traffic or just crash into something. Unfortunately the things on the server are not 100% realistic and so forth. 

 

I think PD using other cars than cruiser is an IC issue in its enitirety. We have to adapt to the situations going on in the city, and with every other pursuit being after a high speed vehicle, we are going to seek ways not to lose visual in 10 seconds. While again, in Los Angeles, most pursuits are after some sort of sedans. 

 

And as @BrainDed mentioned, while we cant just tune the vehicles, we have to adapt with different methods.

[djnugget]

Most police forces around the world have special or performance cars available to them for the sole purpose of keeping up with the criminal class.

 

if they didnt adapt they would all be running around with nothing but whistles and a stick...makes sense that they adapt their procedures and equipment to stay in the game

[Jester]

Yea idk, i said everything i have to on the topic, aside from; 

I'm not against them having it, as long as it's an official vehicle. Using personal vehicles for law enforcement should fall under fail rp, adapting or not. If it's a big enough issue, staff have to move it up the priority list to give them capable vehicles

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jester

[isBrainDed]

That is not our issue then, and even if you give us a high performance vehicle, that vehicle is not modded like yours. It doesn't come with any upgrades so its slower, brakes worse and accelerates slower as well. This is a server development issue and we as PD have no impact on it. As for taking personal vehicle, in PD, only certain ranks can do so.

[Jester]

28 minutes ago, BrainDed said:

. This is a server development issue and we as PD have no impact on it. 

Yea that's why i brought it to the forums and bumped the thread

28 minutes ago, BrainDed said:

As for taking personal vehicle, in PD, only certain ranks can do so.

I certainly hope it's limited to that so it doesn't get abused. Cuz I've been chased by detectives using supers. But even then, they couldn't keep up with my standard comet like the cop in the high tier cruiser did. Which is why i say it comes to skill, not needing OP vehicles. (Detc was driving a Pfister 811 btw)

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jester

[Salvador Rivera]

Make they storage limited - 1 x in a w eek they get item re-spawn and if they use them all they just can't do they duty things fully .

 

[THNDR]

34 minutes ago, Jester said:

I certainly hope it's limited to that so it doesn't get abused. Cuz I've been chased by detectives using supers. But even then, they couldn't keep up with my standard comet like the cop in the high tier cruiser did. Which is why i say it comes to skill, not needing OP vehicles. (Detc was driving a Pfister 811 btw)

Yes, as Ibstated above. We cannot modify then and even though they are super cars. They do not have any modifications on them, hence you are able to outrun them with a cruiser

[Jester]

3 minutes ago, nixu211 said:

Yes, as Ibstated above. We cannot modify then and even though they are super cars. They do not have any modifications on them, hence you are able to outrun them with a cruiser

You're saying if they use a personal vehicle, it can't be tuned? It has to be stock?

[THNDR]

49 minutes ago, Jester said:

You're saying if they use a personal vehicle, it can't be tuned? It has to be stock?

PD has high speed cars for öursuits, such as the 811, Zentorno etc. Those cars are stock and we cant modify them. I have meen in PD for soon 8 months. And I can assure you that deploying a personal vehicle is something onyl a few can authorize. And I have not seen that happening too often

[Osborn]

Thank you for your suggestion, however, we are not looking at reducing the effectiveness/power of our law enforcement factions at this point in time, as we feel that they are good as they are. I think a lot of people need to realize that we're role-playing being a part of a developed country, not a developing one - the government will fund their law enforcement with sufficient funding to tackle issues that we are having In Character. There are still crime happening daily on Eclipse, and people getting away very often - just as it is in real life.

- Osborn.