Arkiehawgz21 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 We need a way to get felonies expunged from our records. Maybe a certain amount of time with no convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex303 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Getting felonies expunged is a very long and strict process, and in most cases, violent felonies are not expunge-able. They are a deterrent from committing very serious crimes, if you can just erase them whenever you please, there would be no deterrent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bala Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 It's about accountability and consequences for your actions. If you know you can do dirt and eventually it'll wash off, you won't worry as much about getting muddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balastas Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) That's why most people have one char with clean backround and another for crimes and so on. IRL if you got felonies you will have consequences for whole life also if you could just get away from felonies with time even more people wouldn't give a damn about committing a crime. Edited July 19, 2019 by Balastas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check 420 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldari Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 The best you can do for now is file Internal Affair reports against Officers whenever you are convicted and LSPD will investigate whether or not your complaint is legitimate. However, I would not hold my breathe on a charge being overturned. I have been a part of LSPD for over a year now and I have only ever seen it happen a handful of times and that was for minor misdemeanours, not felonies. You'd need serious evidence, as currently the justice system relies on the 'relayed witness' system. I,e if an Officer sees you do something, then they can charge and jail you, no questions asked. It isn't perfect, but until, if, we get a legal system set up with scripting it's the best we can do. As right now there isn't any way we could even remove a charge once you've served it, so we'd have to put in an OOC ticket explaining that the charge is overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 +1 There should be a pathway to redemption. Without that, people have no reason to strive to be better people. There’s no reason to grow and learn from mistakes otherwise. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiehawgz21 Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 I just think that if we are rping real life scenarios here you should be able to apply for expungement and a pardon from the government. This would allow you to be employed by all of the career choices and also give you your gun rights back. I'm not saying it should be a sure thing but there should be a process to apply with stipulations set based on character history. It could also be a one and done thing. If you get a second chance and break the law again then you shouldn't be able to get those rights back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopop Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Not so much expungement but maybe start accepting applicants into factions who have had a certain time passed since it was committed? I know some jobs only look back so far and some even get tax breaks for hire felons so it could even go into a factions treasury. Just a thought I had at DOC and this kind of falls in line with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marca Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Thing is, nobody is limited to one character. You're always free to create another one and be more careful on that one. We're all here to RP and develop our characters, so it makes little sense that a characters crimes would be wiped clean just because you want them to be. If you became a felon, willingly or not, that's just a consequence you'll have to deal with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Marca said: Thing is, nobody is limited to one character. You're always free to create another one and be more careful on that one. We're all here to RP and develop our characters, so it makes little sense that a characters crimes would be wiped clean just because you want them to be. If you became a felon, willingly or not, that's just a consequence you'll have to deal with. Going from a criminal to a productive member of society is character development. Character development doesn't have to be from good to bad, it can be from bad to good also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex303 Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 42 minutes ago, Brawnkoh said: Going from a criminal to a productive member of society is character development. Character development doesn't have to be from good to bad, it can be from bad to good also. I used to kill a cop every time my faction evaded and their car got disabled, but now through character development I should have a clear criminal record and be able to legally possess a firearm license. Does that sound right to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) On 7/22/2019 at 10:09 PM, alexalex303 said: I used to kill a cop every time my faction evaded and their car got disabled, but now through character development I should have a clear criminal record and be able to legally possess a firearm license. Does that sound right to you? I’m not sure why you insist on taking something to the extreme in an attempt to make a point. So instead, I will get personal with my own life. I’m a felon. I was convinced of felony drug and weapon charges in 2008 and was sentenced to 60 months in prison. I spent 3.5 years of that 60 month sentence in DOC. When I got out, most of society had the same things to say as you. The same judgements to make, and the same stereotypical archetypes. I got out, went to college, got a degree, and finally did enough that I was able to get a job as an IT Engineer for a Fortune 500 company. I worked my way up from an Engineer to an IT director. Throughout that, I had my firearms rights restored (it took 5 days and zero court appearances), I’ve had charges vacated and expunged in two states. People make mistakes. If you don’t allow them an opportunity to correct them, recidivism rates are directly impacted. Like it or not, ECRP is a mini world with real world problems. So before you go to the extreme to make a point, understand that some of us have lived this. I’m sitting here typing this on my corporate work phone, as someone who manages a department of IT professionals, with a legal Glock 43x concealed in my waistband...As a felon... Edited July 27, 2019 by Brawnkoh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex303 Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Brawnkoh said: I’m not sure why you insist on taking something to the extreme in an attempt to make a point. So instead, I will get personal with my own life. I’m a felon. I was convinced of felony drug and weapon charges in 2008 and was sentenced to 60 months in prison. I spent 3.5 years of that 60 month sentence in DOC. When I got out, most of society had the same things to say as you. The same judgements to make, and the same stereotypical archetypes. I got out, went to college, got a degree, and finally did enough was I was able to get a job as an IT Engineer for a Fortune 500 company. I worked my way up from an Engineer to an IT director. Throughout that, I had my firearms rights restored (it took 5 days and zero court appearances), I’ve had charges vacated and expunged in two states. People make mistakes. If you don’t allow them an opportunity to correct them, recidivism rates are directly impacted. Like it or not, ECRP is a mini world with real world problems. So before you go to the extreme to make a point, understand that some of us have lived this. I’m sitting here typing this on my corporate work phone, as someone who manages a department of IT professionals, with a legal Glock 43x concealed in my waistband...As a felon... Yeah, so a non violent possession charge got expunged after YEARS. I can agree to that. However the vast majority of felonious criminals on our server are violent and routinely commit said crimes. If this is a program to pardon one-off non-violent offenders, then it should be stated more clearly, because I don't want to give life-long felons a clean criminal record. Edited July 23, 2019 by alexalex303 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawnkoh Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, alexalex303 said: Yeah, so a non violent possession charge got expunged after YEARS. I can agree to that. However the vast majority of felonious criminals on our server are violent and routinely commit said crimes. If this is a program to pardon one-off non-violent offenders, then it should be stated more clearly, because I don't want to give life-long felons a clean criminal record. I get where you’re coming from. I don’t think you should be able to shoot a bunch of police and go get a job a week later at LSC either. But I really respect the idea of a pathway to redemption for criminals. Even if it’s a long and tedious process (months) I don’t think it’s a black and white position, and I’d like to see discussion rather than both sides digging their heels into the ground. It allows for vertical and horizontal progression rather than just trying to become the best criminal you can be. It also, in my opinion, could open up story lines. By no means do I expect you to agree with me, and that’s okay. You have different experiences from me both oocly and icly. I don’t have to agree with someone’s opinion to respect it. I just feel like we get into these cop vs robber arguments all the time and both sides fail to find a common ground. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmine Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Yah these arguments always go exactly the same. Criminal Poster: We should have this, cuz it would be better for criminal. Cop poster: You are a criminal and therefore it's your fault and you should get nothing. Criminal Poster: But here's a valid reason why we should allow this, in some very specific situations, and within reason. Cop poster: Oh so you are saying in this super extreme example, we should just let criminals have anything they want!! Criminal Poster: Forget it Man... Rinse, wait a week, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilvermanx Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jasmine said: Yah these arguments always go exactly the same. Criminal Poster: We should have this, cuz it would be better for criminal. Cop poster: You are a criminal and therefore it's your fault and you should get nothing. Criminal Poster: But here's a valid reason why we should allow this, in some very specific situations, and within reason. Cop poster: Oh so you are saying in this super extreme example, we should just let criminals have anything they want!! Criminal Poster: Forget it Man... Rinse, wait a week, repeat. Works the other way round equally fine btw. BTT I think both parties got a point here. I played an officer for 1 1/2 years on another server where crime was running rampage with not a lot to do for officers (at one point the LSPDs only weapon were SMGs against like 8 gangs with AKs). I like the idea of a felony-system where convicted can't legally possess weapons. On the other hand this RP-server will always be a game. Having actual repercussions for illegal activities is good (RP-consequences which are not punishing the players). However having these repercussions stay permanently is a heavy punishment for the player who now lost one of his characters permanently to the bad side (assuming said player would wish for his character to apply for a position on the legal side). This should be avoided as illegal activity is a valid RP-choice. The proposed solution of automatically expunging felony charges after a certain time without conviction (or even misdemeanors?) is a good idea to allow players to roleplay redemption-arcs that are impossible under the current system. I'd like to add a small change to the idea though: The record should still state the felony charge (so it wouldn't be expunged without trace). The status as a felon should be for limited time only though. Greetings, Sebastian Edited July 23, 2019 by xSilvermanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopop Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 I did want to do a redemption arc on my criminal character. I'm a shit criminal, I don't have to heart to rob and steal...unless it was cars. Well I got 2 GTAs and basically had to CK the char since if you want to be ex-crim your choices going forward are limited... But then you have the guy with 18 felonies and murder too. I think at that point you're going to stay a criminal or a redemption arc is going to be really hard to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzy. Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 Expunge my admin jail .. Ontopic: would be cool to see a system where we can appeal the tickets given to us by Leo members (the one they hand out personally). I was once had a ticket for parking outside a building, vehicle left abandoned but i actually fell through worlds and couldn’t reach my vehicle. I approached some lspd members who said their really wasn’t a way to remove them .. in the end I paid it (500 bucks) but I was more displeased about it being on my record as it was something out of my reach to find a reaolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osborn Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 I like the idea of expungement of non-violent crimes to a certain extent, but as Steel mentioned, IRL it's not an easy process - you just don't walk into your city hall building and change your name. There's a court process, you'll most likely have to go through some parole & rehabilitation process and complete that properly, then court hearings where a judge determines if you qualify for it or not. But to do all this, we need a court system - which we don't have right now. https://www.shouselaw.com/expunge-criminal-records.html 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiehawgz21 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 8 hours ago, alexalex303 said: I used to kill a cop every time my faction evaded and their car got disabled, but now through character development I should have a clear criminal record and be able to legally possess a firearm license. Does that sound right to you? No not at all what we are trying to say. Of course you wouldnt give someone with a murder conviction an expungement that would be completely unrealistic. However there are other felonies including some violent that you should be able to ultimately redeem yourself from and move on with better character development and better storylines. I personally know about 6 people in my day to day life that have felony convictions and have recieved pardons from the state with full gun rights reinstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiehawgz21 Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said: 6 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said: I like the idea of expungement of non-violent crimes to a certain extent, but as Steel mentioned, IRL it's not an easy process - you just don't walk into your city hall building and change your name. There's a court process, you'll most likely have to go through some parole & rehabilitation process and complete that properly, then court hearings where a judge determines if you qualify for it or not. But to do all this, we need a court system - which we don't have right now. Most pardons and expungement at least in my state are give by the state governor. With very little legal involved. You have to submit character witnesses that are credible. It also requires alot of paperwork and patience and isn't guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarine Posted July 23, 2019 Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 I pretty much agree with Osborn on this idea. I would not be against a lengthy system of expungement for non-violent felonies. However, as the server currently stands, it would be impossible to implement something like this until we have a fully functioning judicial branch which will take a significant amount of time. The expungement process would have to be well thought out with multiple layers and at the end of the day be decided by a judge who is unbiased. If something like this is implemented justly far down the road, I could see this opening up the door to great roleplay and redemption arcs for people who truly want to change their lives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punched Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 -1 Merely expunging felonies after a while would not make much sense RPly or OOCly. Maybe in the future there could be an option to apply for a government pardon from your crimes if you spend a long time without committing and being arrested for ANY crimes (including reckless operation from speed cameras). Possibly after 1 - 3 OOC months of staying clean you could have a chance to apply for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiehawgz21 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, punched said: -1 Merely expunging felonies after a while would not make much sense RPly or OOCly. Maybe in the future there could be an option to apply for a government pardon from your crimes if you spend a long time without committing and being arrested for ANY crimes (including reckless operation from speed cameras). Possibly after 1 - 3 OOC months of staying clean you could have a chance to apply for it. -1 No one is saying just wash it all away. This post is literally discussing the possibility to apply to have your criminal record expunged and recieve a pardon from the government. Why would anyone just get a clean slate over a period of time for no reason. That would kill the whole reason to try and remain a clean citizen. That's also why getting a pardon would be a one time deal. No third chances at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...