Police balances

[HobGoblin]

1 hour ago, WoodsKW said:

I recall doing a bank and having Sam Martin 240 me into bus stop as i got into my car outside life invader, instantly stalling my car and giving me no chance to evade

And when was this? I have exactly one arrest report submitted under your name and it was nothing to do with a bank. 

[imran]

7 hours ago, Mrpyth0n33 said:

I need some of whatever you smoked before you started writing this, spawn in other locations to block criminals?

 

And how exactly are LEOS going to enjoy is all criminals stopped playing/doing crime what would LEOs role be? You realize you need crime to happen to be a cop right?

Leos ain't the problem, faction management are the problem, why gasing and making LEOS always win, they got nothing to lose, they will push on you with a high tier with no fear of death because they will just respawn , spawn a new car, get full kit for free and a paycheck for them just to ruin other players gameplay. Yes, i respect the criminal risk-income ratio, but after what i've seen in the last couple months, they overpowred them too much, starting with the unrealistic police cars and helicopters, i won't be surprised if they gave them a hydra with a cute siren on it, just to get criminals.
i'de say limit their super cars into normal cruisers, and buffalo stx/ scout as high tier cars for both departements, and its oket if we seen like dominator gtx or sentinel gts for investigators.
right now their logic is, you will be chased with normal vehicles, but if your vehicle is faster than us we will use the fastest vehicles in game.

the server is already dying from the toxic player base who made this server looks like a PVP, and the management who inforcing players to switch into it, everyone log in just to enjoy and create good memories, the average intraction between playes right now is ( X: who you with? /Y: crew X / X: hands up)
-let legal roleplayers enjoy by lowreing salary taxes down to 20%
-let illegal roleplayers enjoy by removing super cars from LEOs, along by removing LEOs salary if they died that hour.
 

Edited September 20, 2025 by imran

[Tachi]

6 hours ago, Mrpyth0n33 said:

Not to start an argument but chase was pulled over and arrested because he pulled over and dropped a bag,which is not a crime,more an oic motive that he might have a gun i agree the shots fired initially were uncalled for but shot at SD, that is false all the rooks were together doung something no one just went up north to shoot SD that was probably not rooks but miscommunication and seen as the same people shooting chase got arrested everyone bolted to get away and unfortunately were actively getting hunted, airone was on us and we went into a building to escape but the heli flew in the warehouse and used thermals to spot us,also these are only my views amd not that of all rooks involved

He was pulled over because he was speeding up the county road while we were looking for another vehicle that had just evaded. He wasn't pulled over for the bag. The bag was just a good guess. Then you guys decided to shoot at my traffic stop because he was in cuffs, hadn't even been searched yet. Do with that what you will.

[alexalex303]

4 hours ago, Soupiestfork said:

To be honest, it's pretty clear GND needs some reigning in - considering basically every crim faction is dead. Not putting blame on anyone, just addressing an obvious concern. I've basically abandoned my crim alt altogether because *it's impossible / isn't fun* with the current dynamic.

That's all I'm going to say because I don't feel like getting lit up for having an opinion.

I think it's important to remember that not only GND but law enforcement as a whole is reactive in nature, or more simply: you get what you give. GND, contrary to what you might hear is not made up of people that want to ruin your day, in the majority of cases they will just match your energy.

For example, last night, Gang Detectives went to OTF HQ after there were reports of a large gathering there and when the gang members spoke to them normally, no citations were given, and some gang detectives even played dice with the gang members. Is that because the new F4 leader is an experienced criminal and old community member that knew how to interact with them? I don't know, but it's what happened.

Remember, the people in that division are players just like you. They're here to have fun and don't always go full throttle. 

[Bala]

10 hours ago, Eliza said:

Court cases could be done in a week or 2 max, I don’t know the full extent to what goes on admittedly, but it doesn’t and shouldn’t take 10 months to gather an arrest report, statements and other relevant paperwork, and schedule a time and date to prove someone’s guilt or innocence, if stuff isn’t provided in a timely manner then keep it inadmissible for the case

For me, it almost doesn't matter how quickly or not the court cases are completed, it's about the end product. I know full well who looked at the server and decided that we needed a court system, but they didn't actually play it at the time.

This was never that sort of server, but because these specific people wanted it to become a thing, it became one. Not because it actually improved the server experience and that for me is an underlying issue with quite a few of the changes in the last 2-3 years.

If I'm a criminal, the only way the courts are really a positive for me, is if I get away with something I actually did. If I get found innocent when I haven't done what I got charged for, yeah it's a win but I've still sort of had my time wasted. If I'm a cop, either I'm found to be right or the work I did 2-3 months ago, that I stopped thinking about 2-3 months ago, has been undone with no personal consequence to me.

For me, my approach is somewhat old school in that, I'd want to arrest someone and then go onto the next situation. Just like I feel the criminal, if they get caught, would wanna get out, have their stuff and go on about their business. Instead, there are all these extra roadblocks where I'm having to spend extra minutes typing up what happened on the off chance something needs to be referenced later and meanwhile, the poor prick that got 15 minutes afk jail is sat waiting at the front desk to get their items back.

We did a good thing with the Impound, Legal Evidence for me is the same. 

3 hours ago, WoodsKW said:

Don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that this had a part to play in why OffGrid left the server, they were never in labs until a week or so before their departure and therefore all crimes committed were ones that offered the cops RP opportunities and more often than not, you tap a cop car in a pursuit and they start shooting or GND force you out of a car. I recall doing a bank and having Sam Martin 240 me into bus stop as i got into my car outside life invader, instantly stalling my car and giving me no chance to evade. That is his intention, to get the win and the arrest, but is not good interaction and certainly not good roleplay.

Every server you play PD are supposed to be the example of roleplay, not people that couldn't hack it as a crim so they do it as a cop and are as toxic as most gangs, with a badge, the court and a busted IA process to hide behind.

Maybe it was for the best that Off Grid left the server then? If this isn't an environment that you feel you can thrive in, you don't need to be here.

There is always a lot of talk about better roleplay from cops and that cops don't care about the playing experience of others, I'll level with you, I don't like how much my own faction care-bears criminals. I think there is far too many notices put out about things like being reasonable with people, who frankly, themselves behave unreasonably.

I admire those within PD that choose to willingly do that, because they get absolute fucking pelters from some of you on here even though they do it. I'd just tell you to kick rocks personally.

I don't see the same sort of energy from criminal factions to ensure their members don't behave like shitheads. Whether that's dipping too much into /b, whether that is continuing to run over and over after being tased or talking shit about factions in Discord.

There comes a point where maybe someone like Samuel Martin wouldn't want to murder a motherfucker, if he wasn't having to put up with a shitty playing experience.

Criminals, we can do this point scoring thing on any thread you like but ultimately, if the playing experience was better overall, if we moved towards a more consistent and recognisable vision for the community, if it was properly supported in terms of development the way it should be, then half these problems would go away and people would be more tolerant and/or willing to accept negative situations.

But it's not, and it probably won't be, so this will end up staying the same and we'll go on until the tank runs empty.

[WoodsKW]

3 hours ago, Bala said:

Maybe it was for the best that Off Grid left the server then? If this isn't an environment that you feel you can thrive in, you don't need to be here.

 

So you think it's for the best that a gang that was offering RP to cops, wasn't shooting them on the daily and pushing for a better experience for themselves and for the cops, are better off in a FiveM server because we refuse to recognise and change the problems of the server we play?

As I said in my initial post, a lot of people like ECRP and want this to be the server that they play, some, like yourself have spent 5/6 years investing time and money into this server, making connections with other people and therefore don't want to walk away until they have no other alternatives, such as the server dies due to the release of GTA 6 and you lose all progress to make way for the new experience or more likely, because this server collapses in on itself because we all want to argue about who is right and who is wrong and no progress ever gets made

[Jordan]

4 hours ago, Bala said:

Maybe it was for the best that Off Grid left the server then?

We shouldn't be saying this about our factions on the server. Factions (Criminal and Legal both) are essential corner stones to our server and our community. They present a multitude of different avenues for roleplay. You into cars? Want to roleplay a character that races? Off Grid, SVR, that vibe. Want more violent criminal hood style? OTF. Want something more professional/mafia based? ESM, Rooks. It's not as simple as "Maybe its best they leave" 

[Demonmit1]

3 hours ago, WoodsKW said:

So you think it's for the best that a gang that was offering RP to cops, wasn't shooting them on the daily and pushing for a better experience for themselves and for the cops, are better off in a FiveM server because we refuse to recognise and change the problems of the server we play?

just sounds like a lack of creativity and being butthurt after taking a big loss. They got their first real taste of pressure from GND after the stunt they pulled late at night last weekend and want to give up over that. They wanted the attention, GND gave them attention, they realized they DIDNT want that attention, then gave up entirely. When i was high command of shadows,  the amount of massive L's we would take fighting the infinite money pockets of Lewis Langley, his private GSB army, and LSK being paid millions to do his dirty work for months... look what gang is still around, and who stepped down from office... :shrug: 

Its the purest definition of fuck a round and find out, and it was entirely, at least from my understanding as GND in SD, handled ICly, stemming from an IC issue, being resolved ICly. GND is entirely designed to be lynchpin of law enforcement against organized gangs. Our job is to entirely focus on these official factions and be your bad guy, be the one who is your biggest adversary. Of course people's goals is to have fun being a criminal, this bad ass gangster, and its GND's IC job to catch you, so of course people are going to see that as GND being against you having fun, but GND's job is to catch you. So there is ALWAYS going to be tension over that.

Edited September 21, 2025 by Demonmit1

[WoodsKW]

11 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

just sounds like a lack of creativity and being butthurt after taking a big loss. They got their first real taste of pressure from GND after the stunt they pulled late at night last weekend and want to give up over that. They wanted the attention, GND gave them attention, they realized they DIDNT want that attention, then gave up entirely. When i was high command of shadows,  the amount of massive L's we would take fighting the infinite money pockets of Lewis Langley, his private GSB army, and LSK being paid millions to do his dirty work for months... look what gang is still around, and who stepped down from office... :shrug: 

Its the purest definition of fuck a round and find out, and it was entirely, at least from my understanding as GND in SD, handled ICly, stemming from an IC issue, being resolved ICly. GND is entirely designed to be lynchpin of law enforcement against organized gangs. Our job is to entirely focus on these official factions and be your bad guy, be the one who is your biggest adversary. Of course people's goals is to have fun being a criminal, this bad ass gangster, and its GND's IC job to catch you, so of course people are going to see that as GND being against you having fun, but GND's job is to catch you. So there is ALWAYS going to be tension over that.

Think you need to step out from under whatever rock you have been under mate to be honest. Firstly, Shadows is on it's arse and half the members have left cause of how it was being run and some new recruits.

Secondly, the incident with OffGrid was due to months of being the only gang in the city that isnt in labs and therefore the only ones around for cops to interact with but it meant that as soon as they saw a blue car pulled over there were 10 cruisers behind you, when i thought I would be part of the change and did my cadet training, they even had the pursuit vehicle in OffGrid colours so if you want to tell me there is not a bias there then I really dunno what to tell you.

GNDs job is to investigate and deal with gangs but it wasnt all GND that were the issue and at no point did I state that was the case, Most of the people in GND I have interacted with do not RP, they just act as bad as any gang member with the power of an infinite loadout and a badge to duck behind or a court system that nobody uses so they know they are sound. 

This evening, I have interacted with cops on 4 occasions seperately, I have been VDM'd twice, Shot in the back with no interaction what so ever and now serving a 3 hour sentence in DOC, I could forum report 3 different officers but it doesn't change anything and the best you get is a voided situation

[Demonmit1]

5 minutes ago, WoodsKW said:

I could forum report 3 different officers

Rule 6: 

Failure to Report Rule breaks

Players are expected to report severe rule breaks that they witness and/or have information of, failing to do so may make them complicit in the rule breaks. 

 

Please, genuinely, file the reports, it does matter, it does make a difference, and it does affect the player you're reporting if the report is accepted. Complaining in the 15th cops vs crim forum post on page 4 of the comments isnt going to do shit for you, and will change nothing.

Edited September 21, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Mrpyth0n33]

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

just sounds like a lack of creativity and being butthurt after taking a big loss

Lets see how creative GND gets when all the gangs leave because of cringe ooc perspective of what fun is.

 

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

When i was high command of shadows,  the amount of massive L's we would take fighting the infinite money pockets of Lewis Langley, his private GSB army, and LSK being paid millions to do his dirty work for months... look what gang is still around, and who stepped down from office... :shru

Your meme character really didnt lose anything to GND EVER and yes i was around before your first character even existed did people complain about GND and PD back then as much as now? No because over time it got worst, it stopped feeling like a game with rp and fun and more like egos projecting, i have said this before GND always brings up when i was a criminal we didnt do this or that, yet how long have you all been out of crim life? Having a troll crim that evades every now and then and doesnt get the full wrath and toxic attitudes covered in "oh its just ic its my character", yet look back at the criminal alts of those players same thing ,so i ask again when is no longer just ic if the same toxic attitude gets transferred to different alts? If we just wipe the issues and player loss under the carpet when do we realize that players need players to be able to rp no? If no one does any crime anymore whats gnd and other LEOs going to do? there is alot of murmers of players wanting to leave, alot already has more are planning to is the attitude going to be fuck around and find out in a non fun way until only LEO players remain then what? People are complaining because they want to stay but also want change, if everyones concerns are met with then this must not be the place for you who remains in the end? Player count is dropping massively and at speeds unlike ever before, just saying we all love the server, just some aspects that need to be addressed no one logs on to be treated toxic, we are all here to have fun, you can have an arrest without an ego and what sometimes feels like ooc toxicity, call it ic personality all you want, when multiple characters of the same person act the exact same way it gets weird, and saying 

Edited September 21, 2025 by Mrpyth0n33

[Demonmit1]

11 hours ago, Mrpyth0n33 said:

yet how long have you all been out of crim life?

almost 7 months since i was full time crim and high command. lot more recent than a lot of people that say "yeah i used to play crim" but to be fair it still has been a little bit. 

 

11 hours ago, Mrpyth0n33 said:

Your meme character really didnt lose anything to GND EVER

What other gangs had properties seized? not raided, Seized? keys taken away, poof, millions gone? none that I can think of...
We had to be creative and extra careful, we always operated like we're being watched and our freqs were comped. I had a lot to lose, so I was careful, spread things out over multiple properties, was careful to not get seen going in or out, and kept a job working as a senior mechanic at Bennys while high command of shadows, selling an obnoxious amount of combat MG MkII's to the point they had to remove them from the server... lol. GND was on my ass over that, as GND now i can see the casefiles, XD. it was a fun game of cat and mouse.

People entirely misunderstand that GND is other players you're playing against, we're not just dumb NPC cops that are entirely predictable and you can ignore. My job is to catch the criminals, your job is to not get caught while making money illegally. Most players are lazy or ignorant of the background game of chess thats happening in investigations, they ignore it, and then it bites them in the ass and they get all upset about how its not fun. Either be aware that you're a part of that being in a official crim faction, or just accept that if you're not going to pay attention to it, we're still playing against you and we're gonna get you more often than not.

If you have issues with specific people that you think dont play well, beat them at their own game. go after them IC'y, cause them to have consequences to their actions for targeting you. fight back. outplay, out maneuver, out think. We're here playing chess against you when you dont even want to be a part of the game and have no risk to being a criminal.

[Mrpyth0n33]

4 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

People entirely misunderstand that GND is other players you're playing against, we're not just dumb NPC cops that are entirely predictable and you can ignore. My job is to catch the criminals, your job is to not get caught while making money illegally. Most players are lazy or ignorant of the background game of chess thats happening in investigations, they ignore it, and then it bites them in the ass and they get all upset about how its not fun. Either be aware that you're a part of that being in a official crim faction, or just accept that if you're not going to pay attention to it, we're still playing against you and we're gonna get you more often than not.

See with this i can agree 100% yes GND are players aswell behind those characters,and yes icly they have a job, does the job discription come with toxicity and ego? No that is an ooc decision that the players behind those characters make, it's like they forget that behind every crim player is an actual person aswell and without those criminal players there just wont be a need for any LEOs if no one did crime LEOs would be pointless, and if people complain even leave the server over the toxicity and instantly wanting to end pursuits etc then the players behind those characters have to oocly think if everyone left who would i investigate, who would i pursue? Think about the ooc aspect not just the ic consequences, i have an LEO alt but iv mained crim consistently for years, so its safe to say i have felt and experience the changes that has come to the server,both the good and the bad devs are doing their best scriptwise, but if we dont all change our attitudes and remember we need each other to enjoy the server, its all pointless

[Demonmit1]

51 minutes ago, Mrpyth0n33 said:

does the job discription come with toxicity and ego?

no of course not. thats the point of internal affairs. faction members are expected to follow CPR guidelines. I had an alt in SD and i was fired after an IA report for calling someone a bitch... lol. If people are quitting being criminals because law enforcement "rub it in" when they catch you, of course thats frustrating. But the response you'll typically get is law enforcement reciprocate whats said to them. IA does its job, looks at the footage, both IC and OOC, and makes a determination. If the criminal player is vulgar, offensive, yelling obscenities, then get upset when the officer arresting you tells you off, that IA report is going to go nowhere. IF you think someone has unreasonably been offensive ICly as a law enforcement officer, IA report it.

[imran]

Illegal players won't just disapear like that, its an equation, the more illegal roleplayers are targeted the more chance for them to switch into legal RP or quit the server, the problem here is that if faction management goes against these players, we and you will end up in a dead server, maybe not 0 but closer to it, i hope illegal roleplayers taken less serious than its already is, and remove LEOs super cars along with a salary removal if they died that hour, so it will increase the fear  of death to LEOs along with a risk reward gammeplay to them to stop ruinning other people gameplay.

[Bala]

On 9/20/2025 at 9:41 PM, Jordan said:

We shouldn't be saying this about our factions on the server. Factions (Criminal and Legal both) are essential corner stones to our server and our community. They present a multitude of different avenues for roleplay. You into cars? Want to roleplay a character that races? Off Grid, SVR, that vibe. Want more violent criminal hood style? OTF. Want something more professional/mafia based? ESM, Rooks. It's not as simple as "Maybe its best they leave" 

Why do you always talk like you are delivering some public relations speech, lmao?
You're too busy trying to put a comfy pillow under what I said, that you missed the point.

I don't see Off Grid leaving the server as this big tragedy, they're some next faction. To me, those factions are a dime a dozen and naturally seem to attract people that have little interest in understanding the viewpoint of those across from them but expect to be placated.

If they have such a problem with the way things are done here, then cool, go some place else and be happy there. I think they got some unnecessarily negative attitudes towards law enforcement factions on the server and I'd rather not have to share a community with them.

I get people being frustrated with certain things and I've tried as much as anyone to help that situation but there's a limit and there's too many people crossing it.

[Bala]

1 hour ago, imran said:

Illegal players won't just disapear like that, its an equation, the more illegal roleplayers are targeted the more chance for them to switch into legal RP or quit the server, the problem here is that if faction management goes against these players, we and you will end up in a dead server, maybe not 0 but closer to it, i hope illegal roleplayers taken less serious than its already is, and remove LEOs super cars along with a salary removal if they died that hour, so it will increase the fear  of death to LEOs along with a risk reward gammeplay to them to stop ruinning other people gameplay.

I don't think docking cops salary for dying would have the effect you want it to have, lmao.
Either people just would log on less or they'd use bigger weapons.

Cops also don't tend to report as many rulebreaks as crims because we don't really lose anything but time. But when you start trying to make it mean something different, the amount of reports would go up.

Edited September 22, 2025 by Bala

[WoodsKW]

7 hours ago, Bala said:

Why do you always talk like you are delivering some public relations speech, lmao?
You're too busy trying to put a comfy pillow under what I said, that you missed the point.

I don't see Off Grid leaving the server as this big tragedy, they're some next faction. To me, those factions are a dime a dozen and naturally seem to attract people that have little interest in understanding the viewpoint of those across from them but expect to be placated.

If they have such a problem with the way things are done here, then cool, go some place else and be happy there. I think they got some unnecessarily negative attitudes towards law enforcement factions on the server and I'd rather not have to share a community with them.

I get people being frustrated with certain things and I've tried as much as anyone to help that situation but there's a limit and there's too many people crossing it.

And it's this kind of mentality of being stuck in your ways and refusal to change, is what will make the server die. Near enough every comment I have seen you respond to has been negative, saying if they don't like it they can fuck off or something to that extent, as someone that has been in the server for a long time, that has had such a large impact on the server, I'd expect you to want more for it. Whether it should or not, your opinion carries weight and you saying the server is fine and people need to toughen up, is very easy to say from the side with no risk.

This is a suggestions channel after all, people are voicing their ideas to create a better experience because if you speak to most of the server, they say it is dead, dying or they have left. You sitting there stamping your feet saying things shouldn't change because it's not what you want, isn't really how things should work. If you want to sit and play chief of police to an empty server where your best RP will be sitting in a car chatting to your colleagues or telling civs not to litter, then hold this attitude, but for those of us that want to make changes and improve the server, let them voice their ideas and the power at be can choose what suggestions they like and implement them if they can.

(side note, dragging the way somebody speaks and how they put themselves across as you did in the comment above, is not how you have a diplomatic conversation, it comes across very childish and there's no need for it)

Edited September 22, 2025 by WoodsKW

[Jordan]

8 hours ago, Bala said:

You're too busy trying to put a comfy pillow under what I said, that you missed the point.

Im saying your attitude about the faction is all wrong. I didn't miss any point. I think the arrogance in implying theres absolutely nothing problematic about LEO v Crim at the moment is strange, if your whole contribution to the conversation is "Maybe its best they left" or "They're a dime a dozen" then its not contributing at all. The suggestion was about balancing police, its probably best that we stick to the topic at hand. 

[Ms.Somebody]

9 hours ago, Bala said:

I don't see Off Grid leaving the server as this big tragedy, they're some next faction. To me, those factions are a dime a dozen and naturally seem to attract people that have little interest in understanding the viewpoint of those across from them but expect to be placated.

I knew some of the people in Off Grid, they were good friends of mine in and out of the server, it would be nice to have some respect for the players behind the characters Bala, least it be forgotten that these are characters that real human beings have put real effort and real time into growing and making them what they were. Their leaving of the server has had an impact maybe not server wide, but definitely has been felt among me and the others who could call them our friends.

I personally am not someone part of the crim v Leo part of the server, tried the crim side, didn’t like it much, and have no personal interest in the Leo side, my main interest and focus has and likely always will lay in the civ side of the server, which by and far to me has always felt like it has been underserved and under recognized, but this is not the thread for that.

That being said, I have had a few run ins with crims and leo’s on my main, some good, and some bad. Fortunately the good outweighs the bad as most people recognize me now a days and are friendly, but there is still the few leo who will cop a strange attitude with Celeste as if she’s about to be the next biggest crim mafioso to pull off a million dollar heist, but I have to say, and it’s probably strangest to say that most of my positive interactions on the server come from the crim characters.
 

It may not be a noticeable difference to you, but to someone like me, and probably a vast majority of other players on the server who don’t occupy the leo faction, it is very noticeable how a majority of leo’s tend to treat the players who aren’t part of leo factions, I have noticed some toxicity, again nothing directly targeted at me, but I have seen and heard it from among other players I am close with.

[Requiem]

On 9/18/2025 at 1:15 PM, vZelfeR said:

The issue comes from the top, it’s a big issue when senior LEOs and the deputy chief of police refuse to roleplay. But I will reiterate, the issue of NRP is on both sides but at the moment some LEOs and crims need to do much better.

 

On 9/20/2025 at 5:42 AM, Mrpyth0n33 said:

I am not singling out samuel martin on this, GND cannot have criminal alts we all know that but most or all of GND used to have crim alts and always bring up when they were criminals they did this or dod that, forgetting back then 40 people in a gang could hold candy paynes roof and wipe all of rhe 10 LEOs that were around, im not complaning at all about being caught, im saying the interaction vs roleplay, its not ONLY about interacting, SD management recently made an announcement (yes i have an SD alt and understand how some criminals can get) that made me see hope that not all LEOs are only here to catch arrests but look at the roleplay factor too, in the end it takes criminals doing things to give LEOs roleplay, interactions are natural, roleplay takes co operation, im not saying lay off criminals but make it fun for both sides, like a pursuit is more fun for both sides if it isnt instantly ended by shots or ramming, the same can be said for other interactions, if roleplay is implemented more i think people would feel less butt hurt over being arrested imo

 

On 9/20/2025 at 1:37 AM, Jordan said:

 However I woefully disagree with the idea that "You hate the game not the player" As someone who has been playing crim for two years straight I think its safe to say the imbalance is very apparent, and whether or not thats the intended outcome that "police are meant to win" isn't really the problem its the fact that there are standout bad actors that have gone completely unpunished, and unnoticed. If we're looking to have better roleplay interactions I feel that there needs to be a higher standard for roleplay on BOTH sides. For instance there are clips going around of PD wasting an entire room of criminals and then saying stuff like "Shit gang" I dont think thats appropriate roleplay for police, I just don't think that'd even slide in real life without some severe reprimand, nor do I think it should slide oocly as all it does is breed toxicity within the community. 

 

On 9/18/2025 at 2:22 PM, WoodsKW said:

And for anybody that would like to dispute this, I think every person that is not law enforcement could list all the bad RP they have seen from officers and it would be a lot of the same names. Problem is, many of them are high ranking officers, GND, people that the cadets and newer recruits take lead from and this bad RP becomes the norm because the newer people see it as being okay. Then you have a server full of cops, who shall remain nameless, but I assure you everybody will think the same people when thinking of negative experiences, likewise with the positive.

To everyone making complaints that there are Law Enforcement players that are creating negative/toxic environments, not willing to RP, or showing themselves as bad actors, have any of you brought this to the law enforcement faction leadership? Or perhaps submitted a roleplay feedback form? If the kinds of things you say are happening really are, and if they are actually an issue, then it should be addressed for the betterment of Law Enforcement faction(s) and the community. But just blindly complaining or saying there are issues won't solve anything. Collect evidence and submit it with your issues in the roleplay feedback areas if you want something to actually happen. I cannot speak for SD since I am not in that faction, but for LSPD, I can assure you that every roleplay feedback form that is submitted gets reviewed by the entire supervisory team and is discussed in detail and length and taken seriously. I can assure you it WILL get reviewed and you WILL get a response for it. I am sure SD will take them just as seriously as well. 

SD Roleplay Feedback Link: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=2108

PD Roleplay Feedback Link: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=4018

[Bala]

4 hours ago, Jordan said:

Im saying your attitude about the faction is all wrong. I didn't miss any point. I think the arrogance in implying theres absolutely nothing problematic about LEO v Crim at the moment is strange, if your whole contribution to the conversation is "Maybe its best they left" or "They're a dime a dozen" then its not contributing at all. The suggestion was about balancing police, its probably best that we stick to the topic at hand. 

I know exactly what you said, but I'll repeat, Off-Grid leaving the server isn't necessarily the poison chalice that you believe it to be, if they are behaving in a way that doesn't further the interests of the server, which is something that I feel they were not doing so in that sense, for me, it's better that they leave than continue that behaviour.

If we deep it, this thread isn't about balancing police at all. It's about nerfing police, back to the point where some of this contributors can just simply do what they like in-game unopposed.

It's not that some of these contributors don't understand what PD and SD does, it's that they don't want to. The amount of self-regulation that the leadership of the LSPD faction does alone, if you or anyone else outside the faction understood the scale of it, these conversations go very differently.

I didn't see the same energy for balance when criminals were using all the high speed vehicles that police couldn't catch. Who was considering how entertaining that was, for law enforcement? How about when there was a hostage situation at city hall basically every day? Or, maybe when you could attach ATMs to super cars and it was essentially a license to print money.

This idea of balance is bullshit, because some of these contributors and factions don't want balance, they want to win. 
But they are often times, the same people crying about police playing to win.

3 hours ago, Ms.Somebody said:

I knew some of the people in Off Grid, they were good friends of mine in and out of the server, it would be nice to have some respect for the players behind the characters Bala, least it be forgotten that these are characters that real human beings have put real effort and real time into growing and making them what they were. Their leaving of the server has had an impact maybe not server wide, but definitely has been felt among me and the others who could call them our friends.

I personally am not someone part of the crim v Leo part of the server, tried the crim side, didn’t like it much, and have no personal interest in the Leo side, my main interest and focus has and likely always will lay in the civ side of the server, which by and far to me has always felt like it has been underserved and under recognized, but this is not the thread for that.

That being said, I have had a few run ins with crims and leo’s on my main, some good, and some bad. Fortunately the good outweighs the bad as most people recognize me now a days and are friendly, but there is still the few leo who will cop a strange attitude with Celeste as if she’s about to be the next biggest crim mafioso to pull off a million dollar heist, but I have to say, and it’s probably strangest to say that most of my positive interactions on the server come from the crim characters.
 

It may not be a noticeable difference to you, but to someone like me, and probably a vast majority of other players on the server who don’t occupy the leo faction, it is very noticeable how a majority of leo’s tend to treat the players who aren’t part of leo factions, I have noticed some toxicity, again nothing directly targeted at me, but I have seen and heard it from among other players I am close with.

I like you Kari, I think you are a nice person. But, whether or not they were good friends of yours is somewhat irrelevant. It's their contribution to the overall community that matters and if they're a part of hostilities, especially OOC, between law enforcement and criminals then it's not really a loss for the server if a few of them disappear.

In these discussions, people like to hone in on very specific instances of law enforcement doing things that they consider to be negative and then paint that as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Except, the majority of the time, the interactions between law enforcement and criminals go absolutely fine. But, you won't hear about that on the forums because that is what is expected to happen.

Can PD improve? Sure, absolutely we could and it's a weekly thing that we hear players out through our feedback forms and discuss them to try to achieve that. But, we seem to get very little back which makes the whole thing very one sided.

If we're talking about people behind the characters, then perhaps some of these criminals should consider that cop roleplayers spend quite a bit of time every day having to put up with some of the absolute worst people in the community and still have to try and stay within the rules and in-character when doing so.

Do that day in, day out and it's going to have a detrimental effect on how much you enjoy the server and how you treat other people.
 

5 hours ago, WoodsKW said:

And it's this kind of mentality of being stuck in your ways and refusal to change, is what will make the server die. Near enough every comment I have seen you respond to has been negative, saying if they don't like it they can fuck off or something to that extent, as someone that has been in the server for a long time, that has had such a large impact on the server, I'd expect you to want more for it. Whether it should or not, your opinion carries weight and you saying the server is fine and people need to toughen up, is very easy to say from the side with no risk.

I legitimately do not think you will find a bigger advocate for positive change in this community than me. That might sound bare arrogant to people but the amount of hours I've spent making shit to freshen things up or arguing with people to try and push things forward, I think I've earned the right to say it.

To be clear, I don't think in general, if someone in the server doesn't like the server that they should fuck off. I'm specifically saying if someone like yourself or perhaps Off-Grid as a faction doesn't like it, then they should spend their time elsewhere because I don't see your/their contributions to the server to necessarily be positive to the overall goal and I don't honestly think

To be clear, I don't believe that generally speaking, that if someone doesn't like the server that they should fuck off. I think there are good, legitimate players that have some legitimate and well meaning concerns. I know they do, because I've taken the time to speak to them about it and tried to help them.

What I am saying, is that, in the cases where I don't think people are positive contributors to the community and simply want the server to cater to them, that if they are so unhappy with the server then they should leave it. Because the server is never going to be that, no matter what.

5 hours ago, WoodsKW said:

This is a suggestions channel after all, people are voicing their ideas to create a better experience because if you speak to most of the server, they say it is dead, dying or they have left. You sitting there stamping your feet saying things shouldn't change because it's not what you want, isn't really how things should work. If you want to sit and play chief of police to an empty server where your best RP will be sitting in a car chatting to your colleagues or telling civs not to litter, then hold this attitude, but for those of us that want to make changes and improve the server, let them voice their ideas and the power at be can choose what suggestions they like and implement them if they can.

(side note, dragging the way somebody speaks and how they put themselves across as you did in the comment above, is not how you have a diplomatic conversation, it comes across very childish and there's no need for it)

Not really, it's a law enforcement witch hunt plain and simple. Criminals want the police department gimped because they'll be able to get away with doing more of what they want.

Someone suggested taking someone's salary away if they die while on cop duty, as some sort of a motivator to fear for your life. Either people just won't want engage in dangerous situations at all or alternatively, they'll sweat it out to the point where then we really would be play to win.

I said it earlier in another post, but nuking law enforcement is not going to make your playing experience any better. It's incredibly short sighted to think that it will and as much as people like to say "ahh well we'll have no criminals left", there are 200 characters in police factions on this server, what about their experiences?

It's the same argument as the guy wanting prison times reduced again, despite them being almost nothing in comparison to what they were. Like, do you not want any consequences at all, at that point?

I'm about balance and community growth, but this thread is not that. It's funny but when I contacted the faction leaders 2-3 months ago about what we could improve on the criminal side of the server, it wasn't police that they brought up, it was the contents of my thread so before you sit there and try and assume my intentions are to stone wall criminals, how about you go read it.

As for dragging the way someone speaks and puts themselves across, there is absolutely no point in sugar coating situations and I don't have the patience for flannel. If a faction is bad for the server and they leave, they are not a loss. Keeping people for the sake of player count, not because they offer something of positive value is not a way forward.

[Ms.Somebody]

57 minutes ago, Bala said:

I like you Kari, I think you are a nice person. But, whether or not they were good friends of yours is somewhat irrelevant.

Bala, I don’t know how to tell you this, but Kari and I are two different people.

Irrelevance to them being good friends of mine or not, I would still like to ask you to have some respect for the players behind the characters and not dismiss their efforts on the server. It would be tantamount to someone saying that several longstanding leo members who have since left the server over disputes made no difference and there is no loss there if they left, imagine how you would feel if someone said this about someone you had known personally. All I am asking for is respect towards these former players and factions, that is all.

You may not have engaged with them personally in ways that you felt positively impacted or benefited the server, but I guarantee you that there are a lot more players who would disagree with that stance you are taking, broader impacts than you are aware of outside of your personal experiences with those characters and those factions.
 

Every faction has an impact on the server, and blindly stating that it’s “no loss” if they disbanded or have left can be interpreted as very discouraging attitude and behavior to anyone else interested in starting up an illegal faction from what could be seen as a long standing and respected member of the community. It stifles roleplay, creativity and community, as well as perpetuates and encourages a toxic crim v leo mindset that I think everyone on the server can agree no one benefits from.

Edited September 22, 2025 by Ms.Somebody

[Jordan]

3 hours ago, Bala said:

If a faction is bad for the server and they leave, they are not a loss. Keeping people for the sake of player count, not because they offer something of positive value is not a way forward.

Off Grid was not a bad faction for the server. Lets keep things on topic please.

[NinerTwoGolf]

7 hours ago, Requiem said:

To everyone making complaints that there are Law Enforcement players that are creating negative/toxic environments, not willing to RP, or showing themselves as bad actors, have any of you brought this to the law enforcement faction leadership?

I have, I put in an IC IA report against two Deputies who ran a stop sign merging onto the freeway causing significant damage to my personal vehicle. When confronted about the lack of situational awareness when driving, that being the legal road marking and also the oncoming car, they immediately counter acted by both of them threatening myself and my IC Wife. Before badge numbers could be gotten, they just drove off. Now, we had an IC Body Camera rolling, as well as the footage could have been used OOC for the Body Cameras/Dash Camera of the Deputies.

I was told, OOCLY that "The deputy in question was responding to a call at this time, and the call has been voided by an admin since. Therefor, no action will be taken."

This, at the time and still does, confuse the hell out of me. The Deputies at the time of the accident were not Code 2 or Code 3. Responding to a call could excuse the accident, sure, but it doesn't excuse them threatening us afterwards. I could accept responding to the call as driving away suddenly as being voided, but what about the IC actions of them that proceeded it.

In hindsight, I wish I wasn't so new to the server and the systems in place when I made this report because I could have pressed further, especially now knowing LSEMS's policies regarding MVA's while On-Duty. While I'm sure it is not 1:1 with SD's policy, it's given me a base on how it could go.

I wish I appealed it at the time, but I think is an example of what people deal with when they try to engage with the feedback system; a response that leaves more questions than answers. While I'm sure not every experience is like that, I'm sure there is more who have had a similar like this.

7 hours ago, Bala said:

This idea of balance is bullshit, because some of these contributors and factions don't want balance, they want to win. 
But they are often times, the same people crying about police playing to win.

Balance is what any system should strive for, though that doesn't mean it has to be symmetrical. Each side can have their advantages and weaknesses, and both of those don't have to stay static. Of course, both sides probably want to come out on top in a situation. Crims want to get away with their ill-gotten gains, LEO wants to restore order. However, it can be perceived as playing to win by the attitudes each side approaches any situation with. A 'GG' from an opposing player in CS2 is going to feel a lot different if the score was 13-2 as opposed to 13-11.

7 hours ago, Bala said:

I like you Kari, I think you are a nice person. But, whether or not they were good friends of yours is somewhat irrelevant. It's their contribution to the overall community that matters and if they're a part of hostilities, especially OOC, between law enforcement and criminals then it's not really a loss for the server if a few of them disappear.

1.) Should probably see who you are talking to before replying to them in an appeal to reason.
2.) I would argue Off Grid, tried, in good faith for the longest time, to contribute to the community. They hosted events, they RP'd with other groups and factions including my own, and always tried to make the best out of a bad situation. For my faction specifically, it is a huge loss for us on the server because of the RP Ops and events they provided. They reached out to FM, they reached out to LFM. They had an organized sit down between FM, LFM, PD, SD and themselves. How is that not trying to act in good faith? While they might have been a new gang, a lot of their members were not novices in this community.

7 hours ago, Bala said:

What I am saying, is that, in the cases where I don't think people are positive contributors to the community and simply want the server to cater to them, that if they are so unhappy with the server then they should leave it. Because the server is never going to be that, no matter what.

What makes you the Grand Poobah of what is and isn't a positive contribution? Isn't that the whole point of the communities and discussions? For people to talk and discuss about the things they like and enjoy about the server? Things they wish were different, things they wish were better? Lord knows I talk to my faction reps and other faction leaders all the time about our wish lists for ECRP. Sometimes we find common ground, other times we find where we oppose and it leads to interesting talks as each shares their point of view and the conversation alters opinions of others.

While some people do have some hot takes that I don't personally agree with, they have a right to voice their opinion in a civil manner, just as you do.

7 hours ago, Bala said:

Not really, it's a law enforcement witch hunt plain and simple. Criminals want the police department gimped because they'll be able to get away with doing more of what they want.

I agree with this, though I would be more curious in peeling back some more layers as to why certain people feel this way and others do not. If what you said is true in other places in the forums/discord, that criminal faction leaders and their organizations as a whole do not have issues with PD as it currently stands, then that probably means that the individuals who voice displeasure at it may be unaffiliated or in smaller organizations not recognized yet. There is well over double that of active/unarchived illegal factions in the thread without Faction Status. Those that have to compete with the big boys. There are 16 Criminal Factions in the F4 (Not counting The Cartel and Off-Grid). Out of those, none of them are top tier at Tier Nine, but 9 of them are Tier 5+. Do the big dogs of The Lost MC, The Rooks, OTF affect how LEO responds to all situations, as they could turn violent at the drop of a hat? That because they have to tailor response to the worst possible case, that there is less discretion exercised when it comes to small fries? Despite my legal relatively clean record and I try to maintain good relation with PD for my faction, I could say I've definitely had the 'Do we really need this many cars for me going 100 in an 80' moment? I've definitely had infamous officers in the community pull an illegal u-turn and follow me for blocks for what I can assume is solely my choice in vehicle. 

7 hours ago, Bala said:

I'm about balance and community growth, but this thread is not that. It's funny but when I contacted the faction leaders 2-3 months ago about what we could improve on the criminal side of the server, it wasn't police that they brought up, it was the contents of my thread so before you sit there and try and assume my intentions are to stone wall criminals, how about you go read it.

A lot of people read your Criminal Revival thread, as well as plenty of your other related threads and comments. You are a long standing community member, who has contributed a lot to ECRP. A lot of those ideas and suggestions were great, and were well received. But you yourself threw in the towel on your own thread because people started to get nitpicky and while annoying sure, is no reason to can the whole thread just because some people have different ideas than you.

I think some of these ideas and topics deserve a deeper dive in why people feel this way and what we could do to change them. I know I am someone who will read something and go "Ooo I don't like that." But struggle to articulate why until sometime after. I think sometimes, just taking a step back and asking 'Why?' and looking at the trail of decisions that led to where we are now would be helpful in this discussion going forward.

Going back to the original post, I think @Requiem's original reply on the 16th covers all the points very well.

To add, I think adding scripted LEO Logistics could be an interesting avenue. @Demonmit1 covered it on the 16th as well. I think if it was more in-game, more tangible assets tracked rather than moving to Gov Site paperwork would help with the administrative burnout. Have assets (Vehicles, Weapons, Ammunition, etc.) Be tracked. Have a budget that comes from SASG to the various Government departments assigned and have to be used in accordance. If a cruiser gets damaged in a pursuit, time and money will have to be spent on parts and labor. If ammunition is fired, it'll have to be replaced and the weapons maintained.
From there, some interesting intradepartmental RP could happen when the budget meeting comes up. Everyone is at a table with Gov ready to slice up the pie for this quarters budget. Gov says they'll pay to requisition to have two new highspeed units, so one each. SD counters that their High Speed Units have a 33% higher success rate. PD counters that SD spends twice as much repairing their fleet of vehicles due to officer carelessness. EMS wants a new medevac chopper as well, so where does that fit in the budget?
Of course, this would require a somewhat grounded economy and gov not to print money just to cover expenses. A change like that might effect their business reimbursement program that LFM has or BPB does.

Edited September 22, 2025 by NinerTwoGolf