Massive Crim Nerf

[Tylerwalk]

Just now, Demonmit1 said:

at the low end of profit of $150 per drug made, thats $24,000 an hour. faction jobs are capped at 8k an hour, and freelance jobs are all balanced around 8k an hour. the worst possible profit levels of drug production start you out at 4x income of the highest level of civilian income.

You are forgetting the amount of risk it takes to cook and also the time it takes gathering the ingredients. It’s more then just the physical time and profit written down on paper.

[Demonmit1]

3 minutes ago, Tylerwalk said:

You are forgetting the amount of risk it takes to cook

thats factored into making 4x the highest legal way of making money
 

3 minutes ago, Tylerwalk said:

also the time it takes gathering the ingredients.

bulk buy lysergic or muriatic? takes an hour to get an order of 250/500 and then you can cook for a long time.

 

4 minutes ago, Tylerwalk said:

It’s more then just the physical time and profit written down on paper.

thats basically how stuff gets balanced. drug cooking was so unbalanced that now that its reasonably in line with the rest of the economy, people are losing their minds their extremely overpowered easy money printer got nerfed. 

[Earl Mud]

5 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

at the low end of profit of $150 per drug made, thats $24,000 an hour. faction jobs are capped at 8k an hour, and freelance jobs are all balanced around 8k an hour. the worst possible profit levels of drug production start you out at 4x income of the highest level of civilian income.

if 4x the highest level of legal income isnt enough reward for crims risk at the lowest level of illegal income, idk what to say.

Once again legit just ignoring the setup time which be lots of hours of plant picking and costs. That's not 24k an hour thats 24k after hours of picking, setting up, while also risking it. 

[Demonmit1]

1 minute ago, Earl Mud said:

Once again legit just ignoring the setup time which be lots of hours of plant picking and costs. That's not 24k an hour thats 24k after hours of picking, setting up, while also risking it. 

lysergic or muriatic not exist anymore? not everything takes plants to cook

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Earl Mud]

Just now, Earl Mud said:

Once again legit just ignoring the setup time which be lots of hours of plant picking and costs. That's not 24k an hour thats 24k after hours of picking, setting up, while also risking it. 

You also can't just be cooking the same stuff. With turfs you have go do different drugs.

 

[Earl Mud]

Still have to collect plants. Turfs can't survive on 1 type of drug. 

Also your risking nearly double what you profit so just keep ignoring stuff idk what to tell ya 

Edited June 23, 2025 by Earl Mud

[Demonmit1]

6 minutes ago, Earl Mud said:

You also can't just be cooking the same stuff. With turfs you have go do different drugs.
Still have to collect plants. Turfs can't survive on 1 type of drug. 

you absolutely can. I can sell purely just LSD to my dealers and upkeep my turfs. sure, its balanced to pay out less and less if you only sell one type, but it doesnt effect your power in any meaningful way. again, the outcome is less money. the point of selling to dealers should be order power, not massive profits. 

I was high command of a tier 4 faction, it was my job to make sure turfs were maintained. 

The reason why you "have got to do different drugs" is you're gaming the system of the dealers. if you sold in the correct pattern, you could boost the sell value of whatever drug you're trying to sell to get even more money out of dealer than the default sell value. that is still going to be a thing, and the bigger gangs are still going to do that. I did that to make money buying drugs at default value from other players and gangs.

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Earl Mud]

1 minute ago, Demonmit1 said:

you absolutely can. I can sell purely just LSD to my dealers and upkeep my turfs. sure, its balanced to pay out less and less if you only sell one type, but it doesnt effect your power in any meaningful way. again, the outcome is less money. the point of selling to dealers should be order power, not massive profits. 

Ok so yeah sounds like a dumb investment. Let's risk double what we can actually profit but also let's make that profit even less by speeding it up. Again this thread isnt just drugs its the fact that we have been begging for stuff for rp and helping end pvp which this won't do. Since the update less people are doing crime cause the risk vs reward is worse now. Yes rp is the point but when have to double my time grinding to use that money for rp it doesn't help. 

[Demonmit1]

8 minutes ago, Earl Mud said:

Let's risk double what we can actually profit but also let's make that profit even less by speeding it up.

non gang affiliated players should focus on the more time consuming drugs to make, since they can sell those to NPCs for easy profit, or to gangs for higher profit but that takes building relationships and being involved in RP.

Gangs should be focused on maintaining dealers, appeasing cartel, and keeping order power up. big gangs are overall nerfed, while this gives solo or small groups a chance to build relationships and sell the more time consuming drugs to make to the big gangs for more profit. You should have to interact with players to make the best money, not just a random NPC money printer. Also, lets not forget... this is still 4x the highest level of legal income at the lowest level of drug cooking.

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Perez1025]

27 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

at the low end of profit of $150 per drug made, thats $24,000 an hour. faction jobs are capped at 8k an hour, and freelance jobs are all balanced around 8k an hour. the worst possible profit levels of drug production start you out at 4x income of the highest level of civilian income.

if 4x the highest level of legal income isnt enough reward for crims risk at the lowest level of illegal income, idk what to say.

Your missing the fact that it take waaay longer, cost money, and multiple risk to cook that it isn't as simple as clock in at Benny's and hang out for an hour 

[Earl Mud]

1 minute ago, Demonmit1 said:

non gang affiliated players should focus on the more time consuming drugs to make, since they can sell those to NPCs for easy profit, or to gangs for higher profit but that takes building relationships and being involved in RP.

Gangs should be focused on maintaining dealers, appeasing cartel, and keeping order power up. big gangs are overall nerfed, while this gives solo or small groups a chance to build relationships and sell the more time consuming drugs to make to the big gangs for more profit. You should have to interact with players to make the best money, not just a random NPC money printer.

Ahh yes. Bigger gangs that have people who where around during private labs who have millions and millions of printable money are gonna struggle more than the small newbies. The big gangs with a ton of buying power are gonna hurt more than someone who is new and solo.

[Demonmit1]

so now we move the goalposts yet again. 

[Demonmit1]

5 minutes ago, Perez1025 said:

Your missing the fact that it take waaay longer, cost money, and multiple risk to cook that it isn't as simple as clock in at Benny's and hang out for an hour 

"if 4x the highest level of legal income isnt enough reward for crims risk at the lowest level of illegal income, idk what to say."

[Earl Mud]

Just now, Demonmit1 said:

so now we move the goalposts yet 

I didnt move anything. My point still stands. How is replying to you saying bigger gangs will be hurt more moving?

[Perez1025]

1 minute ago, Demonmit1 said:

"if 4x the highest level of legal income isnt enough reward for crims risk at the lowest level of illegal income, idk what to say."

You legit only factored in cook time takes alot more time plus money out of your pocket to cook

[Earl Mud]

6 minutes ago, Perez1025 said:

You legit only factored in cook time takes alot more time plus money out of your pocket to cook

Yeah and the math is way off. Hour of cooking last night yielded around 7k profit while risking nearly double that and that was just cost of material.

Edited June 23, 2025 by Earl Mud

[Demonmit1]

14 minutes ago, Earl Mud said:

I didnt move anything. My point still stands. How is replying to you saying bigger gangs will be hurt more moving?

Sees the raw numbers of what the profit margins are for cooking at level 1. not the revenue, the PROFIT which was said to be $150 profit per drug, is 4x the highest level achievable in legal factions, which takes months to YEARS to become command/high command to reach that level of hourly pay.

"But it takes longer than just standing there cooking cause you have to spend forever picking weed"

Then dont pick weed and buy Lysergic/Muriatic to cook with

"but you have to sell different types of drugs to maintain turfs"

no you dont.

"but the profit will be less"

exactly the point. cooking was an extreme outlier, making 80k+ an hour and has arguably been one of the biggest sources of fucking up the economy. if your goal is maintaining order power, the easiest way to do it is making less money

"but big gangs already have money"

so this is the real issue? people played before you got on the server and made money before you? You should focus on making your own money, and being involved in creating roleplay, interacting with other players, and put the time and effort into creating your own official faction and maintaining it, and then decide then if you having more money than someone new to the server makes sense or not.

 

^
Moving goalposts

 

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Earl Mud]

12 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

Sees the raw numbers of what the profit margins are for cooking at level 1. not the revenue, the PROFIT which was said to be $150 profit per drug, is 4x the highest level achievable in legal factions, which takes months to YEARS to become command/high command to reach that level of hourly pay.

"But it takes longer than just standing there cooking cause you have to spend forever picking weed"

Then dont pick weed and buy Lysergic/Muriatic to cook with

"but you have to sell different types of drugs to maintain turfs"

no you dont.

"but the profit will be less"

exactly the point. cooking was an extreme outlier, making 80k+ an hour and has arguably been one of the biggest sources of fucking up the economy. if your goal is maintaining order power, the easiest way to do it is making less money

"but big gangs already have money"

so this is the real issue? people played before you got on the server and made money before you? You should focus on making your own money, and being involved in creating roleplay, interacting with other players, and put the time and effort into creating your own official faction and maintaining it, and then decide then if you having more money than someone new to the server makes sense or not.

 

^
Moving goalposts

 

I literally led a gang but go off. You are ignoring half of what I say. Im not bitching about people who made more in the past. I even stated I have assets so it doesnt affect me as much. Im trying to discuss overall health cause it seems a lot has been overlooked. I have assets so this isnt some jealousy thing like you are trying to spin and toxic af.

Edited June 23, 2025 by Earl Mud

[raganrogaine]

I tried to cook for the first time in days and got my pockets picked clean by some dudes rolling around simply to rob. Haven't been robbed since December. I can feel the affects already.

[GGDude91]

59 minutes ago, Earl Mud said:

at the low end of profit of $150 per drug made, thats $24,000 an hour

Its not an hour, 1h shipment + getting to humane for resources + chance of getting robbed which will lower your overall bank balance since u used money to make money,  + price drop so cant sell everything any time its not 4x for the time/money invested 

[Quietthecutie]

Its worth noting that whilst crims might be making less money than in the past, the actual Mechanical gameplay of being a crim has (i think?) improved. 

-Caps on Prison time.

-Reduction of licence suspensions.

-addition of extremely meta vehicles like the LC, Niobe etc.

-addition of radio/GPS jamming/hacking items.

-ability to load vehicles/persons into trucks.

 -tackling mechanic.

-addition of multiple other labs for variety.

-New Drug mechanics and buffs with a variety of uses both in and out of combat.

-New Weaponry

-Its now far easier for less established groups to obtain weaponry.

@Demonmit1 Has the right of it I think. The goalposts for what people think is fair/balanced constantly shift, we are never quite satisfied. we cant help ourselves. and if all these suggestions were magically implemented tomorrow, there would be new complaints next week.

Finally, with regards to how much money a crim makes, maybe it is less than in the past, only been here 4 years so i dont have the complete story but what i will say is theres never been more ways for a crim to make money variety wise. and if you want to engage in street level criminal roleplay perhaps its better you dont get too much money too quick. keep on hustlin.

Edited June 23, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[Mrpyth0n33]

Sorry to say this, but devs founders, and even LEOs need to hear this, sadly this update is the begining of the end of crim rp, the only people always singing, it's so easy to make money as a crim are LEO or legal mains that played crim before crim was nerfed hard several times only this year alone, you will always hear back when I played crim, never  I did it now and it was easy, I logged on several times after the recent update and guess how many of my friends and faction members I found online actively doing crime, 0 so many people complain, yet it's used to play crim legal mains praising the current system, go main crim in today's economy and come back, and praise the system, it's people active in the field complaining, hear their concerns instead of reminiscing over how crim life used to be and focus on current crim mains concerns they make up half the server imagine every crim main gave up crime it would cut player count in half and LEOs would have to log into their troll crim alts to give the other LEOs role play or interaction at least, iv mained crim/civ for all the years I been on ecrp and have seen several seasons of it, yet every post I see is people that played crim for a while months or years back saying stop crying crim is easy, making money is easy, yet without money not many role play scenarios work, if its easier to get money less people would grind, loot goblin, chasing someone for an hour risking multiple heavy weapons to gain 3 plants or 1 .50 because it's easier then grinding hours tucked away and avoiding interaction to actually make money, interaction is not lucrative, rp is not built grinding, weather it's a few tucked away for hours holding a lab cooking, praying no one pops up to "role play" or someone grinding trucking for hours or days watching YouTube, the harder you come by money the less likely role play takes place, the faster money is acquired the less time spent grinding and the more time to actually role play, have or attend events because you can afford to and take a break socializing

[synnrsavior]

Crims are not on the same playing field as legals or LEO. When a LEO loses a fight and dies, it's just NLR and on to the next one. They don't lose anything tangible. No gear, no setup, no real impact.

When a crim takes a loss its:

- gear and guns
- repair bills
- fines
- license suspension
- all your precursor and cook in bad cases (this time and money investment is HUGE with bigger batches)
- cars (sitting at impound waiting for a cop to come get your car)

That's thousands or even hundreds of thousands gone, in no time, and this is just the everyday grind.

This is the core of the argument, and comparing to legals is just not realistic. Crims take risks for big payouts, not to grind like a civil servant. The assumption that people can just keep moving, keep grinding, and take losses like it doesn't matter is unrealistic and unsustainable. Everything costs money as a crim.

The idea that a small crew should just be a forever beholden to bigger gangs to make money seems silly to me. I don't see how just spreadsheet gaming a no-plant drug is better for RP or interactions. I've had some of the most fun interactions on this server picking or farming at a lab, buying chems from a big gang doesn't contribute any of that. It's usually just hand over money and get called to take the crate from the back of their 'Macho into your 'Macho. I don't think that's good or good for RP.

The point of shared weed plots etc. is to pull people together but when it just becomes a low reward (and even a no reward or losses) grind at the overall base level, why would we do it? And the idea that you just go to a bigger gang is just killing RP on an RP server.

Who has the most time or the most friends in positions of power, or who was here before the last rule change is not a fun game. It doesn't encourage people to stay and build and rise.

So in a way the question is do we want RP or a 'grindset' mindset?

Edited June 23, 2025 by synnrsavior

[alexalex303]

1 minute ago, synnrsavior said:

Crims are not on the same playing field as legals or LEO. When a LEO loses a fight and dies, it's just NLR and on to the next one. They don't lose anything tangible. No gear, no setup, no real impact.

When an LEO arrests a crim, what do they gain? When you find the answer to that question, you might realize why they don't lose anything else either.

Edited June 23, 2025 by alexalex303

[Demonmit1]

be me
play as a literal homeless drunk idiot
have a TON of fun with RP situations, progress through a gang and become high command, never touch drug labs
somehow walk away with millions in assets, owning multiple properties and meta cars, and over a million in the bank from just being a dufus.
Profit?

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1