synnrsavior

And again, great point, this isn't day one for a lot of us, we've been here grinding at this stuff (for almost a year in my case), from the staring money and 0xp to wherever we were before this.

But my early morning no caffeine rambling shouldn't derail this into cops vs crims again, that's not what this thread is about.

I understand what you are getting at, but this makes a lot of assumptions about the crim. I can say I have personally never robbed one person at a lab — it isn't my character's morals, for example. I know a few people commenting here ICly, and a lot of them are not from "clapper crews." A lot of us don't take guns to labs on most occasions. My crim has never had a run-in with police, because not everyone's RP is to be loud and violent. I'd much rather use diplomacy with fellow crims or even LEO. That really is the core thing here — not everyone RPs the same. Some of us have characters who do stuff in loud and stupid ways just to have interactions with cops and provide RP that way, and quiet, serious characters who see a violent interaction as a failure. Now, do I think this is LEO or the nerf's fault? Not really. The arms race has gotten out of control. A 4-stack white Warrener with "New Players" with AKs scares crims too — especially when their mindset is to just rob and fight. But the foundational difference is this: if a cop needs a heavy for protection, you type a command, pick your preference out of a menu, and boom — instant Bullpup MKII (probably more accurately a carbine mkII or a pump mkii, but bullpups are sexy). For a lot of crims, that gun represents hours of RP to even get access to a gang who will work with you. Plant runs, cooking at risk of being robbed, chop cars, houses, ATMs, banks — whatever your crim poison is. I know that they require work and RP from the LEO side, but then it just becomes a box on a sheet. RPly, you have access to infinite weapons, with little or no consequences if you lose them and no real impact to your income (in my opinion even if it isn't about money, money fuels a lot of RP and getting into situations to RP especially for those with a build mentality). The loss of that weapon hurts a crim in the pocket. For LEO, it doesn't even register on a budget, as far as I know. While I don't think you meant it literally, I don't understand why the LEO would want to keep crim guns in the scenario you presented — it doesn't make sense RPly. While I don't think most cops would want to keep crim guns, if your cop had a compelling RP and IC reason, wouldn't OOC corruption allow this anyway?

Just for clarity, all scriptly crime has this change in differing levels.

I think this is really good advice for all of us, we all want to make the community better, more RP focused and receptive to people's RP as long as it falls inside the rules. I would love for this to become a positive place to talk about this and not just defense vs offense. We don't need PVP in the forum.

I love your character, and I love that you did that. But RP isn't cookie cutter, it should be like improv, people living out their character in their way within the rules.

Hopefully a fun RP situation (along with the guaranteed hourly pay and bonuses), which is what we are here for, and those of us who are here for RP want to provide that. But without an upside for crims, they just won't.

Crims are not on the same playing field as legals or LEO. When a LEO loses a fight and dies, it's just NLR and on to the next one. They don't lose anything tangible. No gear, no setup, no real impact. When a crim takes a loss its: - gear and guns - repair bills - fines - license suspension - all your precursor and cook in bad cases (this time and money investment is HUGE with bigger batches) - cars (sitting at impound waiting for a cop to come get your car) That's thousands or even hundreds of thousands gone, in no time, and this is just the everyday grind. This is the core of the argument, and comparing to legals is just not realistic. Crims take risks for big payouts, not to grind like a civil servant. The assumption that people can just keep moving, keep grinding, and take losses like it doesn't matter is unrealistic and unsustainable. Everything costs money as a crim. The idea that a small crew should just be a forever beholden to bigger gangs to make money seems silly to me. I don't see how just spreadsheet gaming a no-plant drug is better for RP or interactions. I've had some of the most fun interactions on this server picking or farming at a lab, buying chems from a big gang doesn't contribute any of that. It's usually just hand over money and get called to take the crate from the back of their 'Macho into your 'Macho. I don't think that's good or good for RP. The point of shared weed plots etc. is to pull people together but when it just becomes a low reward (and even a no reward or losses) grind at the overall base level, why would we do it? And the idea that you just go to a bigger gang is just killing RP on an RP server. Who has the most time or the most friends in positions of power, or who was here before the last rule change is not a fun game. It doesn't encourage people to stay and build and rise. So in a way the question is do we want RP or a 'grindset' mindset?

The help text is pretty explicit, it seems like the RNG will be weighted more in your favor but nothing is guarantied. And to be clear top is what we produced (and what the prices were) before the changes. So for bigger gangs who can afford to and did stockpile a bunch of drugs before this change, they will have a decent stock of max priced drugs.

XP and quality are defined when they are cooked, just making sure we are clear that this is just another bottleneck. I just want to make sure we are not muddying how this works

It is an RP server, but literally, everything requires money; it just feels very stacked against crims lately. If you are in a newer or smaller gang, don't have a war chest from the RV cooking days, or just run with a group of friends, it really does feel like 'you can RP but only in the way we say you should.' Plants are a bottleneck for any drug you can cook without gang imports, and even with those imports, you are at the mercy of a bigger gang. With gun decay, you are now even more tied to spending more money on cleaning kits to maintain a stash or paying whatever a bigger gang decides to give you in terms of tax on buying guns and being stuck on a schedule or waitlist. Smaller gangs are being asked to fight more and beef more while we realize the PVP mentality is a problem, and now their income will be significantly reduced. It just feels like this aspect was not considered; we really shouldn't make this a 'crims are just a whiny' thing, in my opinion, that brings a level of toxicity to the discussion. The people above have done the math and done the testing, and honestly, the new pricing and the grind means that the only RP you will likely get out of this is a grind. You'll be making the loop of the labs, picking plants, getting robbed, losing guns, and paying to recover and fix cars. It requires a level of time commitment that most people will not be able to commit to, and it honestly feels like the death of a small crew crime. I have grown to love this community and many of the people I have met here. Please take the time to experience this from the point of view of smaller crews or newer people.

Finding Family Arcus Thorne took a long road to Los Santos. Born in Jamaica, Arcus grew up in a modest but decent family. After high school, Arcus started going down a path that would lead to ruin or riches. Arcus' family intervened, enrolling him in the Cadet Corps to instill discipline as they worked to secure a path to the United States. Arcus worked across the United States, taking freelance jobs and ending up in Los Santos. Like Many arrivals to the city, Arcus started off working at Burger Shot and the Road Workers; he felt himself slipping back into that life and realized he had to get out of situations that would lead him back into that 'Shotta' life. Leaning on childhood experiences of wrenching on cars with his uncles and working on his friend's beat-up jalopies, Arcus took a job at Bayview Auto Center. Arcus would later go on to join the Government Security Bureau. Both jobs would introduce him to people involved with the MC, encouraging him to check out the Los Santos Motorcycle Club. Eventually, George Barnes, another mechanic at Bayview, encouraged Arcus to come to his first meeting. Arcus found an inviting group of people who feel more like a family than anything else, who encourage each other and come together for the good of the community and good times.

Progress to Goals The Church pursues two guiding principles: Money and Pleasure. To further these aims, we have secured a dedicated facility for hosting social gatherings with both our prospective allies and current friends of The Church. Corporate Headquarters The Church operates as a criminal faction, but we are also committed to expanding into legitimate business ventures. Our primary focus is establishing a legitimate nightclub, though we acknowledge that remnants of our endeavors in the labs may occasionally intertwine with our pursuits. Money and Pleasure are always the focus.\ We are NOT a Cult The Church is not a cult. We set the record straight, clearing up any misconceptions about who we are and what we stand for. The Church is about purpose, truth, and building something real—not blind devotion. Watch the PSA and get the full story for yourself [YouTube] Putting the Rumors to Bed The Future The Church is doubling down on what we do best: diplomacy. We’re making moves to cement our place in the labs while we figure out other ventures, but one thing won’t change—our creed: Do unto others, as they do unto you. This Weeks Church Track - style suggested by Earl Mud

Alliances The one thing we kept from the early days of The Church is to treat everyone as a friend until they are not. We have continued strengthening our alliances and making new friends. Our commitment is to diplomacy and treating labs as what they are, a way to make money at the altar of the gods this city serves. Gods of LOS SANTOS When Amara took over The Church, she recommitted us to finding the truth about the city. Though she has stepped away, Earl Mud has continued to lead us in this call. The truth is that Los Santos serves two things: Money and Pleasure. We have committed to worship alongside our fellow citizens of this city of sin. We Are NOT a Cult With the realization that Marcus Smithe was a malignant element in The Church. As one must with cancers and other such things, we have cut him out and denounced his actions, check out our PSA to learn more. [YouTube] Putting the Rumors to Bed The Future The Church is at a turning point, we are operating with an eye to the future. We will no longer go gently, though we will keep our guiding words in mind. Do unto others, as they do unto you. [YouTube] Song of the Week - Inspired by Alfie Sunshines