Massive Crim Nerf

[alexalex303]

14 hours ago, synnrsavior said:

Hopefully a fun RP situation (along with the guaranteed hourly pay and bonuses), which is what we are here for, and those of us who are here for RP want to provide that. But without an upside for crims, they just won't.

So if all a cop can gain is fun RP, why would they lose stuff when engaging in the fun RP? You'd be punishing them for roleplaying.

That's the bit that's always lost when talking about cops paying for their gear. If you pay for your AK as a crim and use it to steal another AK, you get to keep that. It's yours. You can sell it, you can eat it, you can do whatever. Cops don't get that, anything they take isn't theirs.

Imagine if you went to a lab to rob people and instead of getting items, you had to dispose of them after the RP scenario was over. Would you be down for that? That's what cops do after every situation.

[CalvinKlein]

14 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

When an LEO arrests a crim, what do they gain? When you find the answer to that question, you might realize why they don't lose anything else either.

They gain content, fun gameplay, risk free action, the gamer's "dopamine" .
And for some few strange ones, satisfaction / ego boost.


If it goes there way that's that, if it doesn't , "well there was no risk, I had fun, no losses suffered"

Edited June 24, 2025 by CalvinKlein

[Ritchie Stones]

2 hours ago, admiraljenkins said:

"Just buy a house" type response.

Idd.. its so much more than just money. 
its the feeling of exponential growth, it gives purpose. It is the ever expanding horizon that keeps people bussy,

this “money aint everything” is such lazy and statement…. Sure it aint everything but it sure means a lot to anything in life we do.

we would not even be playing this game if money had no meaning

[synnrsavior]

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

That's the bit that's always lost when talking about cops paying for their gear. If you pay for your AK as a crim and use it to steal another AK, you get to keep that. It's yours. You can sell it, you can eat it, you can do whatever. Cops don't get that, anything they take isn't theirs.

Imagine if you went to a lab to rob people and instead of getting items, you had to dispose of them after the RP scenario was over. Would you be down for that? That's what cops do after every situation.

I understand what you are getting at, but this makes a lot of assumptions about the crim.

I can say I have personally never robbed one person at a lab — it isn't my character's morals, for example.

I know a few people commenting here ICly, and a lot of them are not from "clapper crews." A lot of us don't take guns to labs on most occasions. My crim has never had a run-in with police, because not everyone's RP is to be loud and violent. I'd much rather use diplomacy with fellow crims or even LEO.

That really is the core thing here — not everyone RPs the same. Some of us have characters who do stuff in loud and stupid ways just to have interactions with cops and provide RP that way, and quiet, serious characters who see a violent interaction as a failure.

Now, do I think this is LEO or the nerf's fault? Not really. The arms race has gotten out of control. A 4-stack white Warrener with "New Players" with AKs scares crims too — especially when their mindset is to just rob and fight.

But the foundational difference is this: if a cop needs a heavy for protection, you type a command, pick your preference out of a menu, and boom — instant Bullpup MKII (probably more accurately a carbine mkII or a pump mkii, but bullpups are sexy).

For a lot of crims, that gun represents hours of RP to even get access to a gang who will work with you. Plant runs, cooking at risk of being robbed, chop cars, houses, ATMs, banks — whatever your crim poison is.

I know that they require work and RP from the LEO side, but then it just becomes a box on a sheet. RPly, you have access to infinite weapons, with little or no consequences if you lose them and no real impact to your income (in my opinion even if it isn't about money, money fuels a lot of RP and getting into situations to RP especially for those with a build mentality).

The loss of that weapon hurts a crim in the pocket. For LEO, it doesn't even register on a budget, as far as I know.

While I don't think you meant it literally, I don't understand why the LEO would want to keep crim guns in the scenario you presented — it doesn't make sense RPly. While I don't think most cops would want to keep crim guns, if your cop had a compelling RP and IC reason, wouldn't OOC corruption allow this anyway?

Edited June 24, 2025 by synnrsavior

[synnrsavior]

Just now, synnrsavior said:

I understand what you are getting at, but this makes a lot of assumptions about the crim.

I can say I have personally never robbed one person at a lab — it isn't my character's morals, for example.

I know a few people commenting here ICly, and a lot of them are not from "clapper crews." A lot of us don't take guns to labs on most occasions. My crim has never had a run-in with police, because not everyone's RP is to be loud and violent. I'd much rather use diplomacy with fellow crims or even LEO.

That really is the core thing here — not everyone RPs the same. Some of us have characters who do stuff in loud and stupid ways just to have interactions with cops and provide RP that way, and quiet, serious characters who see a violent interaction as a failure.

Now, do I think this is LEO or the nerf's fault? Not really. The arms race has gotten out of control. A 4-stack white Warrener with "New Players" with AKs scares crims too — especially when their mindset is to just rob and fight.

But the foundational difference is this: if a cop needs a heavy for protection, you type a command, pick your preference out of a menu, and boom — instant Bullpup MKII.

For a lot of crims, that gun represents hours of RP to even get access to a gang who will work with you. Plant runs, cooking at risk of being robbed, chop cars, houses, ATMs, banks — whatever your crim poison is.

I know that they require work and RP from the LEO side, but then it just becomes a box on a sheet. RPly, you have access to infinite weapons, with little or no consequences if you lose them and no real impact to your income (in my opinion even if it isn't about money, money fuels a lot of RP and getting into situations to RP especially for those with a build mentality).

The loss of that weapon hurts a crim in the pocket. For LEO, it doesn't even register on a budget, as far as I know.

While I don't think you meant it literally, I don't understand why the LEO would want to keep crim guns in the scenario you presented — it doesn't make sense RPly. While I don't think most cops would want to keep crim guns, if your cop had a compelling RP and IC reason, wouldn't OOC corruption allow this anyway?

But my early morning no caffeine rambling shouldn't derail this into cops vs crims again, that's not what this thread is about. 

[synnrsavior]

17 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

you don't get to start from day one roleplaying as a drug kingpin or expert meth cook. you start at 0 and put the effort into developing that roleplay. if you don't want to put effort into developing the story of your character to achieve what you want, what else do you expect?

And again, great point, this isn't day one for a lot of us, we've been here grinding at this stuff (for almost a year in my case), from the staring money and 0xp to wherever we were before this.

[alexalex303]

3 hours ago, synnrsavior said:

While I don't think you meant it literally, I don't understand why the LEO would want to keep crim guns in the scenario you presented — it doesn't make sense RPly. While I don't think most cops would want to keep crim guns, if your cop had a compelling RP and IC reason, wouldn't OOC corruption allow this anyway?

It's meant to illustrate the issue with your argument. 

Crims lose stuff when they get arrested/killed because they gain stuff when they win.

If you only have cops lose stuf when they get killed, they would need to gain stuff when they win.

I agree that it wouldn't make any sense for most cops to stash AKs, so, perhaps cops would receive all of the fines of the person that they're arresting. That would be balanced with them being expected to pay for equipment personally upon death.

[Quietthecutie]

3 hours ago, synnrsavior said:

While I don't think you meant it literally, I don't understand why the LEO would want to keep crim guns in the scenario you presented — it doesn't make sense RPly. While I don't think most cops would want to keep crim guns, if your cop had a compelling RP and IC reason, wouldn't OOC corruption allow this anyway?

OOC Corruption perms are incredibly rare for LEOs. like Moby Dick rare. You have to engage with high command, present a compelling RP story and argument for why you are going corrupt, and it almost always ends with your LEO getting fired, blacklisted and jailed. Even if you accomplish all that. there's hard limits on how many and who can be corrupt.

These are always RP heavy, deep stories. usually well documented in media or forums. simply doing it because you wanted to stash some AKs on the side wouldnt cut it. they have to be incredibly detailed to the point they are almost prohibitive.

All this to say that OOC corruption perms are so infrequent that I dont think they hold weight as a valid argument here. They are a special op, like prison break. you wouldnt balance a broad mechanic or rule around them.

Edited June 24, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[GGDude91]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

That would be balanced with them being expected to pay for equipment personally upon death.

I think it would be best to get a fine when they die based off ~10-30% of what they wore so we dont have 1 cop vs 6 crims as armor is already military grade for a rookie cop "this connects with nerf since our guns are worth alot more now that we get less pay"

[Earl Mud]

Let's not make this another cop vs crim thread. Chasing rabbits right now is not gonna solve anything.