Modify player speed based on what AP amount they have equipped

[Demonmit1]

• Who is the suggestion for?
  - Anyone that can wear AP. Crim, Civ, and LEO

• Why is the suggestion being made?
  - A way to realistically balance Crim vs LEO, offering a nerf to both sides for their added AP protection

• What are the pros and/or cons of the suggestion?

  • Pros
    - Realistic way to balance Crim vs PD. PD always wearing 100AP vests should have some form of downside to doing so.
    - PD actually gets a noticeable nerf for once, as a lot of Crim focused players complain about PD not getting nerfs, when Crim seem to regularly get small nerfs.

  • Cons
    - dev work?
    - cops running slower will be more taser happy since they now can more easily lose a suspect on foot?

• How should the suggestion be implemented?
  - Modify player walk/run speed, turning speed, and aim down sights speed based on the amount of AP they have equipped.
  - not sure on specific percentages, would need to be tested. somewhere in the realm of like, 80% total movement speed for 200AP, 90% total movement speed for 100 AP, 93% total movement speed for 75 AP, and 95% total movement speed for 50 AP

 

I think having a system where based on how much AP you are wearing reducing your character movement speed would be quite realistically balanced. Wearing plates gets hot and heavy, and should have some debuff on your character for the added protection.

Obviously this suggestion is heavily targeted towards LEO factions, as it should be. so lets think through how this could change outcomes of situations

• LEO have no downsides of wearing AP, so effectively every LEO player puts on 100 AP when they clock on, as there's no reason not to. 
• Foot chases will be drastically different. now LEO will have to consider how much AP they want to wear depending on the situations they expect to be in. foot pursuit? too much AP and you'll quickly lose your suspect because you're running slower. Get a lightweight kit with 50AP? well now you're at a disadvantage in a possible gang shootout, and are more vulnerable
  
   

at the moment i don't see any real con to this, other than LEO's being upset for getting an actual noticeable nerf for always having AP as a buff.

[Mpache]

I can see this being a decent addition, but I think 50 and 75 AP are light armor (or 'without plates') and shouldn't come with a speed penalty, whereas 100 and up should start at 95% or so. 
In an ideal setting, there would be a stamina bar that could get drained faster instead of a speed difference, depending on how much armor you were carrying. 

There's also an innate imbalance when it comes to "Crim vs LEO", a crim can quickly drop the armor they are wearing while an LEO has it locked on them due to the faction loadout system, so there'd have to be rules implemented to 'balance' it.

[Soupiestfork]

From the other side of the coin, LEOs can (and some do, even though to my understanding they aren't supposed to) spam /fl to refill armor, sometimes in an active engagement.

Adding a mobility penalty for AP sounds like a great idea.

+1

[CKari]

+1 as a crim

-1 as someone who works at DOC. The amount of runners we'll have literally just running laps around the prison because we wouldn't be able to catch them would be ridiculous. They'd be trapped by the fence so they couldn't leave but boy oh boy could I see them just running around the perimeter for an hour.

[Demonmit1]

5 minutes ago, CKari said:

-1 as someone who works at DOC. The amount of runners we'll have literally just running laps around the prison because we wouldn't be able to catch them would be ridiculous. They'd be trapped by the fence so they couldn't leave but boy oh boy could I see them just running around the perimeter for an hour.

Tasers, mixed with my suggestion to balance them, would solve that issue. 

 

[Victor Einhart]

On 7/7/2024 at 4:05 AM, Demonmit1 said:

A way to realistically balance Crim vs LEO

Criminal players already have the overwhelming advantage of dictating when and where most interactions happen. Making cops slower only compounds that advantage.

Why does this gap need to be wider?

[Soupiestfork]

1 hour ago, Victor Einhart said:

Criminal players already have the overwhelming advantage of dictating when and where most interactions happen. Making cops slower only compounds that advantage.

Why does this gap need to be wider?

Criminals have virtually no advantage at the moment this statement is simply false.

The element of surprise is burned in about 60 seconds, especially with how aggressively PD has been fielding AIR-1 etc lately.

[SquirtleSquad]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:34 PM, Soupiestfork said:

From the other side of the coin, LEOs can (and some do, even though to my understanding they aren't supposed to) spam /fl to refill armor, sometimes in an active engagement.

If you're going to make wild accusations like this, at least provide evidence and OOC IA report them to their respected faction.

[Demonmit1]

10 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

Criminal players already have the overwhelming advantage of dictating when and where most interactions happen. Making cops slower only compounds that advantage.

Why does this gap need to be wider?

Where you get caught while doing a crime isn't having an overwhelming advantage for crims, as where they get caught is wherever the leo player notices or initiates a stop. The goal of Leo is to catch the criminal. The goal of most crimes is to avoid or escape Leo's. Leo's regularly have the overwhelming advantage, very capable cars, high speeds for every situation, air one, and superior numbers. But it can be balanced as chasing a fleeing vehicle is harder than fleeing. You have to react perfectly, manage call outs for your supporting units, and avoid collateral damage with bystanders and your own friendly units, where the fleeing vehicle has to just get away.

That balance is thrown out the window when it comes to foot chases or gunfights. There's no reason to not put on ap as a Leo because there is absolutely no downside. You get all the benefits of Leo's organization, communication, and support equipment, with no debuff for having double or more the HP as most fleeing crims. A kitted chest rig with plates can weigh like 40lbs. That should have some form of debuff on your speed for the added protection. It would affect any crim wearing so if they try to fight Leo's or are focusing rolling labs, they'd also get the debuff of slower movement to keep it all even.

[Quietthecutie]

The issue i have with this is i just dont think its a change that would work, make the chamges you want to see.

It would basically make footchases extreemely tedius for LEOs whilst not really making gunfights that harder for them.

Also if we wanna talk running realisim have you ever tried sprinting with your hands tied behind your back? Its wild how people can do that in the city without stumbling and falling on their face every now and again. 

[SquirtleSquad]

1 minute ago, Quietthecutie said:

The issue i have with this is i just dont think its a change that would work, make the chamges you want to see.

It would basically make footchases extreemely tedius for LEOs whilst not really making gunfights that harder for them.

Also if we wanna talk running realisim have you ever tried sprinting with your hands tied behind your back? Its wild how people can do that in the city without stumbling and falling on their face every now and again. 

In addition to this, we have walk animations that have various speed differences as well. So it'd have to be a bit more standardized.

I wouldn't be opposed to heavier armor, anything above 100 AP imposing a 5-10% reduction in run speed, with the trade off that cuffed/zip tied individuals suffering from a 5-10% speed reduction as well.

[Soupiestfork]

9 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

If you're going to make wild accusations like this, at least provide evidence and OOC IA report them to their respected faction.

It's not a wild accusation. It's a statement of fact. I haven't named any individuals of doing this. If this hits too close to home I'm sorry but... it is what it is.

[Soupiestfork]

5 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

In addition to this, we have walk animations that have various speed differences as well. So it'd have to be a bit more standardized.

I wouldn't be opposed to heavier armor, anything above 100 AP imposing a 5-10% reduction in run speed, with the trade off that cuffed/zip tied individuals suffering from a 5-10% speed reduction as well.

Yes. Cuffed runners are silly. It's almost always just a 'fuck you I'm wasting your time' to the officers rather than an earnest attempt at escape. I'd also suggest a slow penalty of some sort for folks who've recently been tazed.

[SquirtleSquad]

17 hours ago, Soupiestfork said:

It's not a wild accusation. It's a statement of fact. I haven't named any individuals of doing this. If this hits too close to home I'm sorry but... it is what it is.

It's not a statement "hits too close to home", but you are mentioning a blatant violation of internal policy. Thus, my statement of filing an OOC IA report. In PD we are not allowed to sit in the passenger seat to just spam /fl to refresh armor in a gun fight. In addition to, it being a server rule break. So if you're going to mention this, at least follow through the appropriate channels so the behavior is appropriately corrected.

[Soupiestfork]

6 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

It's not a statement "hits too close to home", but you are mentioning a blatant violation of internal policy. Thus, my statement of filing an OOC IA report. In PD we are not allowed to sit in the passenger seat to just spam /fl to refresh armor in a gun fight. In addition to, it being a server rule break. So if you're going to mention this, at least follow through the appropriate channels so the behavior is appropriately corrected.

I'm sorry you see it that way.

[Zion Willard]

On 7/10/2024 at 5:32 PM, Soupiestfork said:

I'm sorry you see it that way.

You're 100% making an accusation. The actual fact is that only a select few people even have access to physically use the command when not at a locker. If they did it as you put it, then yes it would be an OOC breach of regulation... There's no need to act so immature. +1 to the suggestion as a whole, so long as there is some way to remove armor from the faction loadout beyond what there is currently.

[Jett_J]

+1 only if drive-by tazing is allowed. Otherwise gonna have to resort to mowing suspects down with a gun or car

[Demonmit1]

26 minutes ago, Jett_J said:

+1 only if drive-by tazing is allowed. Otherwise gonna have to resort to mowing suspects down with a gun or car

or you know, use your brain and superior numbers to catch someone by cutting them off, or plan ahead if you so desperately want to win, rather than just shooting people.

[Soupiestfork]

1 hour ago, Zion Willard said:

You're 100% making an accusation. The actual fact is that only a select few people even have access to physically use the command when not at a locker. If they did it as you put it, then yes it would be an OOC breach of regulation... There's no need to act so immature. +1 to the suggestion as a whole, so long as there is some way to remove armor from the faction loadout beyond what there is currently.

Thank you for your feedback. I will take it into consideration. I apologize if I came off more aggressive than I'd meant to.

Edited July 20, 2024 by Soupiestfork

[Jett_J]

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

or you know, use your brain and superior numbers to catch someone by cutting them off, or plan ahead if you so desperately want to win, rather than just shooting people.

Yea you're right. Hitting them with the car is probably more reasonable than shooting them in the back