/Stabilize rework

[inorigj]

Hey,

So i've been on the server for a loong time and the /Stabilize command has never been changed other then being added to the SD and PD faction in early 2018 due to the lack of MD players

this being said.

 

The /Stabilize command uses a very old and out dated system where it triggers on 2 players. the medic and the injured. and no matter what happens after the command is triggered. the medic and the patient will go threw 3 animations and then up with "Patient Stabilize" at the end.

This happens even if you kill the injured person all together or if you take the medic hostage. even if you shoot the medic and they die. the patient will still finish their Stabilize function

 

My suggestion is to change the /Stabilize script to use the Skill check script instead.

this has several ups and downs to it that makes sense rply and realistically

Being a medic working on a patient trying to save their life takes focus and all of their attention. making the skill check realistic as they'd need to focus on that.

This also offers up the option of the medic needing to stop treating to for example. run for cover if a shootout breaks loos during the treatment.

Or if a medic is unlucky they fail a treatment due to not hitting a skill check.

This also offers criminals who wishes for a chance to die in RP to actually die. as the moment the current /Stabilize is ran on them. in 15 seconds after that. that chance is gone.

no matter what happens.

Edited June 23, 2024 by inorigj
Scrapped idea

[Ranger]

I'm not going to lie, as soon as I read "it should use skill check" I scrolled straight down to type this. The time in /stabilize is used to roleplay treating injuries, what's the alternative to this, press space 13 times, then do /do the patient would be healed and call that medical RP?

Skill checks should not be used on every timed script that we have, it's already pushing the line as you need to do it to fill water bottles, I'd really hate to see it be an alternative to players actually roleplaying. Even as is, most /stabilize RP is just someone going /do bleeding everywhere or /do able after being hit with 8+ lines of quality RP, the suggestion to add skill checks is essentially asking to just get rid of the RP aspect in total and just turn it into a pickup/dropoff style of "rp" where MD more or less just heals, transports, onto the next as opposed to offering advanced medical RP to players and offering an outlet for people to do that RP.

I understand the issues with /stabilize, but I think the issues you listed are extremely niche and not really an issue with the command itself or what comes with the command; taking a medic hostage in the middle of the animation? "This happens even if you kill the injured person" if you kill the injured person, what's the issue with /stabilize here? You killed the person being treated. If the issue is about "endpoint" RP coming from stabilize, reworking it to work similar to /cpr where you get health back but it ticks down so it's not "welp their stabilized, that's it, they have 0 chance of dying" would be good to see over spacebar spam.

I don't really see a solution in this aside from "add skill checks", which is something I'd personally not want to see supported.

[SquirtleSquad]

9 hours ago, inorigj said:

My suggestion is to change the /Stabilize script to use the Skill check script instead.

this has several ups and downs to it that makes sense rply and realistically

Being a medic working on a patient trying to save their life takes focus and all of their attention. making the skill check realistic as they'd need to focus on that.

This also offers up the option of the medic needing to stop treating to for example. run for cover if a shootout breaks loos during the treatment.

Or if a medic is unlucky they fail a treatment due to not hitting a skill check.

This also offers criminals who wishes for a chance to die in RP to actually die. as the moment the current /Stabilize is ran on them. in 15 seconds after that. that chance is gone.

no matter what happens.

Respectfully, as someone in MD, and you being in MD as well, no. No way.

When we do medical RP, as Ranger said, we are focused on providing the actual treatment itself. We are not foregoing any RP to just clicking spacebar, and THEN we have to provide medical RP. This is an RP server, and not a skill check server with this stuff. If it was a one liner, like the cuff script, or RP that involves no interactions then fine, but not for medical RP.

When MD is in a shoot out, does it suck? Yes, yes it does, but so does providing medical treatment in the line of fire during a war. Medics are generally seen as a "off-limits" target, however, that being said they can be shot and are not immune. It comes with the hazards of the job. You can RP picking them up, and moving them to safety, but as you know, we have internal policy to not just run in with bullets flying everywhere to save people. That'd be a violation of FearRP, not preserving the integrity of our characters' lives to perform faction duties.

We also don't want there to be instances of people being mad that "a medic purposely failed the skill check and let me die", or "a medic hit the skill checks and I should have died" mentality and reports that would come in. We already get people requesting Death perms which we do not grant, as people want to find a way out of getting charged.

[Mpache]

Unfortunately, with how Medical RP works, this is not feasible. I'm not against changing it to a "skill game" of some sort, but definitely not the QuickTime action one that is present for, say, lockpicking. The Medical RP side of things could see a big rework where actual items are applied onto injuries, in which case a "/stabilize" command would work differently and would perhaps allow a medic to see what injuries there are, and subsequently apply items onto them that they carry with them.

So, for the baseline suggestion, -1.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Mpache

[Chapman]

/stabilize in my opinion should be changed so you can still die its just your bleed-out time is slowed, similar to /cpr providing more health. So for example, if you are stabilized you lose 2-3 HP per tick compared to like 8 not stabilized. I don't know the exact bleed-out rate. I feel that this would add some urgency for MD or PD/SD to make sure patients are handled properly being brought to the hospital for proper treatment otherwise they risk someone dying, compared to currently you can have a stabilized person "critically injured" sitting on a large scene for 30+ minutes for example where if they are roleplaying their injuries would of bled-out.

Circling back to the main suggestion, I don't believe quick-time events should be added.

[Mpache]

Whilst I do understand what Chapman means, scenes are 'often' paused especially if larger in size for various reasons, and it is a game after all. Medics are taught to 'rush things along' by default, because they do have an injured patient, and a bleedout timer being present after stabilization would cause a lot of issues. And again, this could be resolved if the system as a whole was reworked, and then a 'stabilize bleedout' would make sense to be possible.

 

Edited June 23, 2024 by Mpache

[inorigj]

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

I understand the issues with /stabilize, but I think the issues you listed are extremely niche and in reality, not actually an issue with the command or what comes with the command; taking a medic hostage in the middle of the animation? "This happens even if you kill the injured person" if you kill the injured person, what's the issue with /stabilize here? You killed the person being treated.

I can understand that taking away the "/me" aspects of it would be bad for the RP aspect. but with all due respect to everyone who's currently commented here. and no offence to the playerbase.

 

But i don't see any loss of rp here, expect with a few unique and very rare cases where the person does NOT. have a /do broken leg.

but when the rp actually comes in good. specially with officers or other medics and the rare civilian. yes that RP is good and enjoyable. so i'll retract the skill check treatment

 

how ever on the note of "medic taken hostage or killing the injured"

the current script. will fuck over the person you're treating. if they die during the /stabilize, as they'll be frozen at pillbox/paleto if they do die during the stabilize.

I've also had SEVERAL times, many, MANY times over the years on here. had people come up to me after shooting someone. and seeing me come up. sometimes they are a bit away still talking. and by the time they decide they want to watch the guy bleed out. i've already started the script on them. ending the chance of this. having to then manually finish them off

 

there has also been a few times where 2 gangs have had a shootout. some rival gang members are on a scene being treated but they can't get close enough to shoot them directly.

i've been on about 8 different calls just this year where i've been helping PD with a 15, and then having to run for cover behind my ambulance AFTER starting to treat them.

This ends with me standing behind my ambulance giving CPR to my Wheels. but some how. this still stabilize the patient. I don't understand how you can't see an issue with it.

 

Just because we don't report for help to get it sorted or anyone reports it does not mean its not a problem for the people who's been injured or the medics treating them.

me pressing Ctrl - 0 should STOP the script. not just kick back in the moment its time for the next animation.

 

even if my suggestions are wack and not really a worth wile addition. the issue still stands that a re-work NEEDS to be done. how, i dont know

[Ranger]

The original concept of this suggestion seemed to be "add a skill check to fix stabilize and people dying", now reading your most recent reply, I understand what you're saying. I do think a simple solution would be that if the animation is canceled, the script is canceled, and/or what Chapman mentioned about a slower tick time compared to full heal with no health-loss tick.

I was going to drop a follow-up comment containing essentially what @Chapman put (as we both spoke about it a bit in TS), I think there are alternatives to skill checks being added to change things up, /stabilize does have a problem of giving "endpoint" RP, so seeing that change would be nice.

[inorigj]

2 hours ago, Ranger said:

/stabilize does have a problem of giving "endpoint" RP, so seeing that change would be nice.

yeah. I've had 10-15's in the back of my ambulance who's been stuck there for ages because PD or SD needs to "finish their scene"

I understand their view and point to do this. But their priority should also change a bit when there are dying people on the scene. they shouldn't be considered "good to go" when they are in the back of the ambulance. just "stable for transport" meaning they are far from good. but they will make it to a hospital

[Quietthecutie]

2 things:

1. i totally agree that the skillcheck mechanic is the worst part of any rp. unless its a really challenging one it adds nothing but busywork to any kind of rp. it was a mechanic put in place so long ago to add *anything* to rp to vary it up. but today we have so many better options and i really think even basic variation to the minigames would add alot of fun and variety to mundane tasks. it is by far the biggest mechanical part of the server which needs an update.

Consider this. instead of when trying to take a wheel off of a car and just hitting skillchecks, a PNG based picture of a wheel where you have to take off the 6 wheel nuts etc. stuff like this is easily implemented and adds TONS of rp value. i shouldnt be on a timer to take a wheel off, i should be timing myself.

2. MD RP is really unsuited to this, MD RP is about being able to accurately assess and address a variety of medical emergencies. it is mostly text based, which is good cus it allows MD to really flex their RP chops in terms of medical knowlege. a good MD rper is fantastic cus they can really show how much character effort they have put in, and unless youre a clapper who cares about nothing but how fast they can get processed and start their Jtime, youll love it.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[Requiem]

I agree some changes to /stabilize would be nice to see. 

As @Mpache mentioned above, I would prefer to see a medical treatment script of its own added as a solution though. For example, if someone has wounds stating they have a fresh gunshot wound to the left leg and a melee wound to right arm, the medic should have a bag full of medical supplies that they could get from faction loadout such as bandages, tourniquets, ice packs, saline, etc that they would have to apply to the person depending on their wounds, and only using the correct item for that type of injury would increase their health by a bit and maybe slow their bleed out rate with each successful injury treated. This would also be a bit more realistic and balanced for those individuals that have had 30 rounds of ammo unloaded on them, as they would be more likely to die as opposed to someone who scraped their knees from wiping out on their BMX. 

Could take the same script idea and create a foundation for other factions to use, such as mechanics. Vehicles could get some kind of random damage applied to them as their durability decreases and a mechanic has to use the correct items on a vehicle to have the durability increase. The whole system would be more interactive and engaging and could potentially work for multiple activities. It also can be used as an extension existing damage script, for the medical stuff at least, to hopefully minimize the dev work needed. 

[Demonmit1]

11 minutes ago, Requiem said:

 if someone has wounds stating they have a fresh gunshot wound to the left leg and a melee wound to right arm, the medic should have a bag full of medical supplies that they could get from faction loadout such as bandages, tourniquets, ice packs, saline, etc that they would have to apply to the person depending on their wounds, and only using the correct item for that type of injury would increase their health

Arma 3 ACE mod is a very popular mod for the military simulator game, where it has a quite in depth medical system. would be neat to have something like that in GTA, but thats a big ask. 

 

[SquirtleSquad]

Guys, we're playing on an RP server, but I don't think it is feasible to start expecting people from MD to start pulling medical supplies from an /fl loadout to treat things.

Would it be great? Yes, yes it absolutely would. Is it ideal for a script based RP server where everyone operates on their own expectations of time? No, not at all. Not everyone wants to wait for you to get forceps, copious amounts of gauze, bottles of saline solution, bandages, ice-packs, tourniquets, IV lines with blood packs, scissors, medical tape, EKG machines, etc, etc. Does it enhance the RP? Fuck yeah it does. Does it work for the field, when we only have about 28 slots of inventory space? No, not at all.

If we're going to start expecting MD to start carrying medical supplies needed to treat injuries, or we're give /do Would see a broken leg when someone was shot, then we're pulling crap that won't fix the right injury. We should then start requiring other factions to carry around assets in their inventory when they are on the field. An EMT's job is about stabilizing the patient to be taken to the hospital where a team of Doctors and Specialists will heal the patient to be released. An EMT is not going to be ripping open shit and digging slugs and bullets out of a patient out in the field. They're there to stabilize and transport. 

While the /stabilize script should cease if the medic moves away, some of the other expectations from a field medic, and from a RP server, where other factions do not always provide the same level of RP, people willing to be patient for that level of RP, or being receptive of the level of RP given to them. You also have to understand that while MD's internal manual is very good, and very in-depth, not everyone is that into the understanding and knowledge of medical roleplay to be able to provide something that other games and servers might offer.

MD does provide MUCH more in-depth RP, but that's within their internal divisions, AMU and CRU. This allows for the receiving player to understand and set aside time to follow through with more medical RP. This is where people will experience the massive knowledge dump and very descriptive and storybook level of RP from the medical side of things.

Additionally, with at times, how many Medics are on shift compared to other factions, we have to speed up RP to get someone treated to go and save someone else. Otherwise we start getting 30 reports in game about why no one is responding to 911 calls, since people don't seem to understand that they are not the only ones on the server. There's gotta be a fine line of expectations, and delivery. There's a balance, and outside of the issue of stabilize continuing even if the medic leaves the player their stabilizing, it's in a pretty good spot.

Finally, we need to consider how much development time would need to go into this. This is a lot to request in my opinion.

[Eliza]

Please no more skill checks, skill checking water bottles is already pushing it in my personal opinion.

 

I do think maybe your health should still go down once stabilized, but much slower and there could be some RP way to get your health back up by being treated by the medic. I've personally taken part in some situations both on an MD character and as a criminal where I've been left in the back of an ambulance for upwards of 45 minutes (this is no exaggeration). I do agree it could use some rework, but please I beg not a skill check.

[inorigj]

@Requiem @Mpache

I did create a suggestion for something like this a while ago. Suggestion post

[inorigj]

1 minute ago, DontSniffSugar said:

Please no more skill checks, skill checking water bottles is already pushing it in my personal opinion.

that we all agreed was a bad idea already  thats why i removed it from the main post