Non-Roleplay rule For LEO'S

[Suken]

Non-Roleplay

Non-Roleplay behavior is considered as actions that are unrealistic or promote poor quality roleplay

PART 1 / PART 2

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to start off, as a part of being a criminal you need to rp according to the place and judge the risk and profit out of every situation before you do it.

as that being said you have to consider your actions and the location before doing any criminal rp : such as a shootout location / kidnapping location / robbing location.

lot of those actions before doing them you have to ask yourself is it day or night?

is the location "rply" populated or not?

am I on a highway or on a secluded side road?

would realistically I be able to do such action without interruption Irl or no?

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which is understandable. but on the other hand, I really don't see LEO'S acting on the same rules I feel it is more of a rule just for criminals, but it is justified for LEO'S.

Example: You robbed a store "with rping you destroy the camera with bolt cutter and the recording device" you leave store alarm gets off happens to be a cruiser nearby they pull on you after you left but was close to the area of the robbery increasing the risk of you getting caught even though rply lot of cars would be on the road not just you but what I hear the most is you are the only vehicle in the area!

another example: you robbed a bank lot of cars fleeing the area. realistically on a busy highway it would kind be impossible to figure out who is who on a highway but because they only see us on the road, they chase us.

another example: cops heard gunshots or got a call of a shootout no specific or special info they approach the area they see a car in the vicinity but far from the location by couple of blocks they start chasing it!

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I know lot of you going to answer just act normal and don't dip they won't do anything, but we all know how things work. easiest of it all after stopping and id'ing you they will ask you to step out to just check the vehicle under the suspicion. but what I am talking about is why would I be in this situation when realistically I wouldn't be here in the first-place cause of how hard it should be to identify the person or the vehicle if you didn't see them doing the action yourself. as it would be mixed with lot of other cars as criminals have to bear in mind when doing stuff to ensure it "realistically would make sense"

---------------------------------

Solution: 

LEO'S have to act on the rule as criminals do, it would increase the chance for criminals as they would realistically have a greater chance than what is already applied for not being caught.

as well as it would give the detectives an actual job to connect the dots and gather evidence of who is the responsible for this crime. instead of just having to sit and trace people phones.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - PART 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

LSPD/LSSD Members.

Lot of the LEOS in situations or during pursuits they get flipped / vehicle damaged badly / cruiser filled with bullet holes and flat tires.

what I see the cops do is drive to nearest station /Delcruiser --> /Fspawn cruiser.

how is that realistic in which way a person who just got shot at / hurt badly from a car flip or have a badly damaged car be able to realistically go get a new cruiser?

in real life each cop has his own assigned cruiser that is why they aren't all cruisers they have 17-D-5 just an example of the cruiser name because it is assigned to a certain cop a single cop doesn't have a spare of the same cruiser Irl as far as I know. 

a person in a flipped car asks for a pickup from fellow LEO and he goes to the nearest station deletes the cruiser and grabs new one and continue the chase. without any consideration that he rply should be getting treatment right now and his car is damaged he have to wait for ic solution for a mechanic or a tow truck to come pick him up.

add a line in the rules or internally in factions to prevent cops from deleting the cruiser and grabbing new one and have to refer to other solutions as going to Bayview / lsc / or mirror park to get a vehicle repair as that what would make sense and realistically should happen.

Also, I would like to add during such situations also when a cop goes to change a cruiser from a shootout he normally does /fl removes the Kevlar and grabs a new one and go continues the same rp situation. it doesn't make sense as even if the bullet hit the Kevlar lot of Irl situation even though the Kevlar stopped it can cause a broken rib and bruises which would affect his ability as he isn't in his full strength.

Solution: 

Prevent LEOS from spawning a new vehicle in the same rp scenario or pursuit and prevent them from changing Kevlar during the same scenario as it isn't realistic that they can get unlimited amount of armor if they close to cruiser and keep changing it up. as it isn't unlimited funds or cruisers!

they have to sort it out with IC methods that will enhance the rp of other factions such as mirror park tuning / lsc / Bayview.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Suken

[Purely]

+1

For the most part I agree with part 2, LEOs have the ability to spawn tow trucks, so they should certainly use them, it allows a wipe out during a chase to become it's own RP scenario. More RP the better.

For the part 1, I am neutral with it. Yes in an ideal world it would be considered beneficial, but there is so many aspects in each individual interaction that it would be almost impossible to; 1. Enforce from staff, and 2. Recognise for LEOs entering a situation. 

[Harley]

I can’t talk in PD’s behalf, but SD have rules around changing Kevlars. It should only be done once you’re out of a situation, anyone “healing” their Kevlar in the middle of a situation shouldn’t be doing so.

[SkyeFuryy]

From SD's POV (and my own personal views): 

Part 1: In an ideal world this would be the case, but in an ideal world the shopkeeper would be able to give a description of the suspects to us, he'd be able to tell us which vehicle was used etc, witnesses would be able to point us in your direction and we'd have a fighting chance. On ECRP, although you are the only vehicle on the road, we often arrive too late (we do not have access to CCTV anymore in the store from a distance), and when we do see somebody fleeing the scene, we don't arrest or detain unless we have some evidence that you were involved (ie: cameras or identical clothing to the CCTV footage). I think turning a blind eye to criminals because they're not RPly the only ones on the highway would make it impossible for us, as like I said above, we don't get the benefit of the shopkeeper giving a description. It's a balancing act, I agree, since it's ECRP, but I think this would make it too OP for criminals if we turned a blind eye to any vehicle leaving the scene. 

 

Part 2: As far as SD goes, if you destroy or flip your cruiser,  you're waiting until the pursuit is over to get a lift to Davis Station. Or the alternative, somebody picks you up and you stay in their vehicle until the suspect is caught. We don't get a drop off to Davis until we can. As for RP injuries, I love the idea of reinforcing RP injuries following a collision with something or flipping a cruiser. However, that I feel goes both ways, for LEO's and for crims. I mean let's be real, a crim can also flip his vehicle, stall or crash, and there is almost no repercussions from the criminal either. Either they keep going or they get in a foot pursuit after stalling their engine. We shouldn't have these double standards!

 

I agree there are certain areas where RP can be reinforced (injuries in an accident), but I feel that crims also have to respect this. We do have a lot of rules surrounding nonRP actions, like Harley said above, and we are reprimanded OOCly (or ICly, depending) on it. 

[Harveyyy]

Commenting on part 1:

You're pushing it way too far with the population factor. The population should be considered when conducting a robbery against another player. This is in place to limit the number of random robberies that can happen anywhere on the map, at locations that do not make any sense; for example, burgershot, a public road near a police station, a gas station, etc. The number of random robberies that happened before the rule was implemented was ridiculous and it was just a case of hands up, /me frisks, then finding another player to rob. Not only this was an unrealistic robbery as it doesn't happen IRL due to the risk/reward factors, but also it wasn't an enjoyable experience. This rule does not benefit LEOs in the slightest, only civilians and criminals, so I don't see how this is relevant. 

You're saying the roads are populated and want to push this on LEOs, but this is how the server works, not only for LEOs, but for everyone else, including criminals.

Lastly, shootouts can happen anywhere on the map, doesn't matter if it was at a secluded location, or a public one, same thing applies to kidnapping, as long as you have proper escalation, and you're not in a NCZ.

[Herbo]

-1 For Me,

Part 1 : Like harvey said the rules about having to act like some where’s populated is only for player robberies and nothing else to my knowledge. Like Skye said as well we don’t detain or pull out until we have 100% proof that you were in the store

 

Part 2 : I get your point but this makes no sense. You’re comparing ECRP to real life and it’s just not. In real life cops aren’t dealing with multiple shootouts a day, multiple pursuits of motorcycles that just start driving off road, vehicles that are going 200 KM/H in and out of traffic in the city or on highways. Along with what Skye said as well, if you flip your cruiser or mess it up, 70% of the time you’re waiting there until the pursuits over unless you get lucky and someone can pick you up.

 

I will add at the end that I am a member of LSSD so people can take that into account when reading the post. I’ll also add that we have certain IC protocols involving some of the topics you’re bringing up.

[Requiem]

I can give my input as a member of LSPD. 

For part 1: I think everything the SD members here have added is sufficient. Script wise on this server, LEO's have very few proper investigative tools to use to actually investigate a situation properly and follow up on it. I would be more willing/inclined to agree with your suggestion if LEO's had the capability to talk with witnesses, get more video footage, get more fingerprints off of items, etc. As it stands, the best anyone can do currently is use the limited CCTV footage available and do /me & /do investigative RP with the criminal. While I think it would be great to RP the streets and highways as populated, no one in the server actually does if we are all honest about it. And it would be unrealistic in the current server state to try and force anyone to act otherwise.

For Part 2: I both agree and disagree with you. Again, my SD colleagues are correct and the policies for PD are similar if not the same. I think everyone should put more effort into RPing their injuries better following a crash. I can't speak for everyone else, but I personally RP injuries in a bad crash or vehicle flip, and I just did this yesterday actually, where I was randomly driving down the road while on patrol and another vehicle struck my police cruiser with my K9 unit inside and I RP'd injures and called MD and had them come look me over and treat my wounds and even did some RP injuries for my dog that was inside and performed treatment on the dog also. I think both criminals and LEO's should be held to a better standard of RP when it comes to crashes and should RP injuries properly. As for the cruiser itself, if a cruiser flips, most often the occupants are stuck having to wait until the pursuit is done most often to get a ride back somewhere. I think it would be nice to see everyone drive a bit more realistically, but I don't think the state of the server is going to change in that regard sadly. 

As for your comment on the kevlar, officer's should never just use faction loadout by a cruiser unless those items would ICly be in the cruiser. So if the officer did some RP and actually was able to take extra kevlar from the police precinct and did the RP of putting it in their cruiser, they would be able to change it out, but should do all the RP of doing so and only be able to change it if they had the extra with them. The same goes for weapons and other equipment. All officers are required to get their faction items from the precinct armory and bring it with them and cannot just go to the cruiser and pull random stuff from thin air. If they are do this, it would be a breach of faction rules and likely server rules for NRP. Additionally, they should RP changing the kevlar properly, such as RP taking off the old and putting on the new and doing it at a time that makes sense. They should not do this mid gunfight or from the drivers seat for example. They should properly go to the trunk of the vehicle if that's where they have it stored and RP appropriately. 

[binkmybonk]

For Part 1, I disagree. Others have stated all of the reasons already although, I would like to say that the cops deal with this problem too. Compared to real life, it's just as unrealistic for a cop to pull someone over for leaving the scene of a crime than it is for a criminal to be blatantly breaking the law in front of a cop, which in my experience, is extremely common.

As for Part 2, I mostly agree besides the kevlar thing (See Bill Breacher's post above). I'm a little surprised to see how much less RP is required or taught in PD compared to the time I have spent working for DCC. At DCC you have to roleplay with /me and /do: Changing into your uniform, grabbing the keys for your vehicle, grabbing an iPad or using a computer to access the interal database, pulling out the vehicle from the garage, adjusting your seat and mirrors, turning on the dashcam, putting on your seatbelt, turning on the fare/cruise control and you have to RP undoing most of that stuff to, like pulling the vehicle back into the garage, putting the keys back, etc. If their taxi is damaged they are also encouraged to bring the taxi back to the garage at DCC and actually roleplay repairing it or replacing it. (Some might say this is because DCC drivers don't actually get to do much whilst on duty, so this essentially just gives them more to do.) 

During my time in PD, the few people who I have seen get their tyres shot out go and change their cruiser with no roleplay. Seeing that does kind of take roleplay out of it and makes it feel more like a game. Coming from DCC, it still makes me uncomfortable just doing /fspawn without any roleplay attached and then immediately being able to drive off.

The first time I was in a cruiser that flipped, we got picked up by AIR-1. AIR-1 literally landed in the middle of the road, blocking it entirely just to pick us up, which did surprise me as I wouldn't have thought that would be allowed.

Despite that, I think the standard of roleplay is generally very high in PD but I would personally like to see a change implemented regarding vehicles.

Edited March 15, 2023 by binkmybonk
Rewording

[Xoza]

Part 1

There are ways to get out of it, be creative! Most officers from what I have observed, do consider other possibilities, however, depending on what they already may know, which could be a lot more than you think, they could have the justification to search you and find illicit items.

Part 2

There are internal policies surrounding realism in Kevlar and Vehicle deployment. I do agree that if you damage your vehicle, you keep driving it, despite it now always pulling to the left, you hop into another cruiser driven by another officer, or you leave the pursuit. Swapping out should only happen in certain circumstances where you would actually switch a vehicle depending on the encounter. I could see the deployment of a cruiser having a cooldown depending on the damage/condition it was returned with, but it shouldn't be so much to be detrimental to RP, with reduced manpower. Just like there would/should be hundreds of thousands of people, there would be a lot more officers as well.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Xoza

[Suken]

I hope this post reach the best potential of it.

I am thinking from my own point of view maybe someone else can add something that I haven't thought of and add it also to this post.

[TheCactus]

If there is evidence that it was you then you did it wrong. If there isn't any then you did it right. We cant push charges if we don't know or can't prove it was you. It ain't that deep. I don't see why we should rely on OOC rules any further with the amount of crimes (especially robberies and murders) that go unsolved.

Each and every player on the server should have a high RP standard when it comes to car crashes, not just cops. That's not gonna happen tho. Why would a cop be weaker than the average human being? Sadly 99% of the players will RP injuries only when they have to: when they are scriptly injured. Every time someone gets shot down they find the time to talk shit in VOIP like nothing happened while they RP bleeding out and dying. You gotta give good RP to get good RP.

I wish there was some kind of balanced solution that stops cops from spawning cars when something doesn't go their way. We have to deal with bugs just like you do but the amount of people that do /delcruiser and respawn it cause they fucked it up in 5 mins of taking it out is frightening.

I can see from the replies that for the most part you are on a different page so I hope me and all the people that replied clarified your doubts.

P.S.: It is Non-RP to refill your kevlar without RP (such as having a spare one in the trunk which you previously RP-ed putting in there) as this report shows

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by TheCactus

[inorigj]

On 12/5/2022 at 10:28 AM, Purely said:

LEOs have the ability to spawn tow trucks

just gonna slide in to sort of correct you on that one. You can't tow a faction vehicle "or you can but it breaks it" If you use a flatbed to tow a faction vehicle such as a police cruiser or a weazel van. the vehicle semi stop being a faction vehicle and just becomes a player vehicle without an owner.

 

This will prevent players from deleting this vehicle. as an example. a towed police car cannot be removed with /delcruiser. it can only be removed using admin commands such as /delveh

[Suken]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:06 PM, SkyeFuryy said:

, I love the idea of reinforcing RP injuries following a collision with something or flipping a cruiser. However, that I feel goes both ways, for LEO's and for crims. I mean let's be real, a crim can also flip his vehicle, stall or crash, and there is almost no repercussions from the criminal either. Either they keep going or they get in a foot pursuit after stalling their engine. We shouldn't have these double standards!

 

I agree there are certain areas where RP can be reinforced (injuries in an accident), but I feel that crims also have to respect this. We do have a lot of rules surrounding nonRP actions, like Harley said above, and we are reprimanded OOCly (or ICly, depending) on it. 

I am agreeing with you, a am not stating stuff to be mentioned or added to just LEO's. I am talking about the whole server in general Criminals / Civilians / Leo's.

I just want it to be all applied on everyone the same all the rules no double standards or exceptions. 

[TheCactus]

39 minutes ago, Suken said:

I am agreeing with you, a am not stating stuff to be mentioned or added to just LEO's. I am talking about the whole server in general Criminals / Civilians / Leo's.

I just want it to be all applied on everyone the same all the rules no double standards or exceptions. 

The script has to be modernised or reworked to remove certain advantages that can be easily abused. Thing is /factionloadout is certainly not the first on the list.
By revamping it and adding limit to kevlars per day or week and modernising it, you would see a lot less abuse and more realism but it's not easy work. Same for F4 and a limit to cruisers, damage, budget reductions / damage (that can be backed up by traffic collision reports or incident reports so you don't lose money) but it's a lot of work.
 

[Suken]

4 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

The script has to be modernised or reworked to remove certain advantages that can be easily abused. Thing is /factionloadout is certainly not the first on the list.
By revamping it and adding limit to kevlars per day or week and modernising it, you would see a lot less abuse and more realism but it's not easy work. Same for F4 and a limit to cruisers, damage, budget reductions / damage (that can be backed up by traffic collision reports or incident reports so you don't lose money) but it's a lot of work.
 

I really like the idea and at the end we suggest what is better for community and hope to see it  

[Herbo]

I see why this thread was originally created, but I don't think what's being discussed applies anymore.

I played around 6 or so months within the SD Faction and I have friends I regularly communicate with that are within "LEO" factions ( DOC, SD, PD ). Just because you see a "Non-RP" thing happen, doesn't mean it's not being dealt with. A lot of times Supervisors within these factions will reach out to the members and talk to them about the Non-RP thing or whatever rule-break might've occured and make sure it doesn't happen again. You break FearRP by dismounting your vehicle when you really shouldn't have, they put an OOC Announcement reminding players that "hey this is FearRP" and also will host training to fix it, Someone does some NRP driving during a pursuit, they'll normally get talked to about it.

I personally think that the server isn't as bad as some players think when it comes to LEOs and "NonRP Rules". Hell, go to the player reports section, go to archive and see how many cops are getting FearRP and NonRP for things. Admins enforce the rules just as much to LEOs as they do Crims, honestly a lot of times, LEOs are held to a MUCH HIGHER standard than your average "crim" is. I personally see no issues with the NonRP rules regarding LEOs as I think the NonRP rule right now covers it pretty well.

[Suken]

8 hours ago, Herbo said:

I see why this thread was originally created, but I don't think what's being discussed applies anymore.

I played around 6 or so months within the SD Faction and I have friends I regularly communicate with that are within "LEO" factions ( DOC, SD, PD ). Just because you see a "Non-RP" thing happen, doesn't mean it's not being dealt with. A lot of times Supervisors within these factions will reach out to the members and talk to them about the Non-RP thing or whatever rule-break might've occured and make sure it doesn't happen again. You break FearRP by dismounting your vehicle when you really shouldn't have, they put an OOC Announcement reminding players that "hey this is FearRP" and also will host training to fix it, Someone does some NRP driving during a pursuit, they'll normally get talked to about it.

I personally think that the server isn't as bad as some players think when it comes to LEOs and "NonRP Rules". Hell, go to the player reports section, go to archive and see how many cops are getting FearRP and NonRP for things. Admins enforce the rules just as much to LEOs as they do Crims, honestly a lot of times, LEOs are held to a MUCH HIGHER standard than your average "crim" is. I personally see no issues with the NonRP rules regarding LEOs as I think the NonRP rule right now covers it pretty well.

who said the server is bad or the rules isn't applied to Leo's?

I think you misunderstood the whole point of the scenario is that it isn't directly affecting the Leo's as it does to criminals. you mentioned they get spoken to by faction members but on the other hand if something happens from criminal side they get reported. i am not saying that rule breaks shouldn't be reported that is the correct way but i am saying it needs to be understood to everyone doesn't matter if it is Criminal or Leo's as well as civilians.

I know the reports and I know what the rules are it all came from my 3years if not 4 now on the server with over 1.5mil of exp. and about the much higher standard than average Crim I believe the is wrong it depends on who you have dealt with from both sides. I know some criminal factions have a really high set of rp detail as well as standards as legal factions do.