Give us criminals some balance

[deadeyedraw]

Hello everyone.

It is much appreciated if you could read the whole thread and give your opinion on the suggetion. This change i am proposing will give both the cops and criminals good RP and thrill when interacting with eachother.

I would like to state that the devs have done an amazing job at modding gta to give us ECRP. As someone who understands the basics of development, ECRP is really well scripted.

My biggest complaint is how the cops are too OP for small criminals even with good weaponry and a decent number of friends. It is hard enough that they have full kevlar all the time and there obviously too many cops for civilians. One chase for merely speeding gets you more than 3 cop cars with multiple cops in them.

I would like to suggest that we would be able to equip our pistols on the driver seat after a delay (the delay of grabbing it out of the back of the pants) and be able to shoot only when we are fully stopped (disable shooting when vehicle speed is above 0).

This will give us ability to give the 200 hp cops a little bit of a challenge when walking up to a car's window. They will have to be attentive of what is in the car (for example they would not walk up if the window is rolled up or they see a gun in the driver's hand.). This will also give us the chance to go against cops when you are a wanted suspect. To make it fair, we need to have a warrant on us and know that they are searching for us to be allowed to shoot a cop instantly. Otherwise, normal DM rules apply.

Moreover, i would like to touch on the thing about bags. It would be amazing if we could at least place an item on the bag without putting the bag on the ground, but it would obviously take a few seconds to finish placing in bag. (Not taking an item from the bag as that would make it unfair for thiefs).

Thank you for taking your time to read this and please give it your honest vote. But please don't be biased.

[Freclan]

So you're requesting to DM cops at traffic stops if you have a warrant on you? -1

[deadeyedraw]

12 minutes ago, Freclan said:

So you're requesting to DM cops at traffic stops if you have a warrant on you? -1

You have not  understood what i was saying unfortunatly.

They still have the chance to react or even better, avoid it. they also have armor. so a few shots would not be that big of a deal. 

Wdym by DM? as i said. they need to know that they are going to be arrested. FearRP still applies, so a criminal cannot pull out a gun if the cop already has one out pointed at their face.

Edited July 25, 2022 by deadeyedraw

[HobGoblin]

Or just allow everyone to be able to hold a gun while driving. If you really want that.

[Garry Yarrg]

+1

[hatchoa]

+1

[Bala]

+1.

For balance though, you can't IA report or forum report if cops shoot first.

 

[AnakinB]

#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest man.

[dRose22]

+/-
I dont agree about shooting from driver seat but i do agree PD/SD needs to be fixed somewhat regarding how many and when can bikes be used during a traffic stop, the odds are 95/5 favouring cops, it should be 75%-70% success rate of an arrest by modifying speed and turning of PD/SD vehicles or rules towards this situation

[Bunkie]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:45 AM, AnakinB said:

#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Bunkie

[Kommand]

+1 

I'm personally in favor of all drivers being able to wield a handgun while driving, as it happens in real life. I'm not sure what the OOC reasoning is for its absence in ECRP. When it comes to the warrant requirement you mentioned, if you are pulled over with an active warrant, it becomes a 10-66 with multiple officers on scene, so this seems like a fair balance.

Truth be told though, cops depend on a lot of OOC advantages including this to keep authority over criminals. You'd need $100k for the same loadout some of these officers are deployed with, with the risk of dying and losing it all, which they don't deal with.

So I feel your struggle of hopelessness as a criminal, because the cop/crim dynamic is disastrously flawed and overwhelmingly favoring law enforcement. And even if you did manage to win in RP with them, they'll report you and likely receive a ruling in their favor. Like when cops reported Shenzen and other gangs for DM after they got clapped fair and square in a battle for plane loot. 

While I support this suggestion, you should know that you're barking up a tree that bites back. Proceed with caution. 

[Requiem]

-1
The suggestion and several of the comments on this thread are acting as though this is a PVP server and not an RP server. Talking about balance like either side should be able to win a shootout 50/50 is just straight pvp. Go play a FPS is you want that. I have mentioned this before that this server is meant to simulate real life. The portions that are not realistic are balanced out by OOC means. If most criminals in the city drove around in normal vehicles and every other vehicle they evaded in wasn't an Issi Sport, Paragon, or drag, then cops wouldn't need to have high speed cars or bikes. Law enforcement and GOV are reactionary factions. If law enforcement starts seeing shootouts with heavy weaponry consistently every single day, you bet there is going to be a reaction where all LEOs get more heavy weaponry and vehicles to deal with it. As Bunkie mentioned above, there are ways of avoiding cops and getting away with things that don't have to always end in shootouts or huge chases. 

TL;DR - Don't just think about "how can I always win the shootout or encounter", be creative and find better RP ways to give yourself the advantage. This isn't a PVP server. Lets not ask to make it one. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Bill Breacher

[Mikazuki Ueno]

19 minutes ago, Bill Breacher said:

TL;DR - Don't just think about "how can I always win the shootout or encounter", be creative and find better RP ways to give yourself the advantage. This isn't a PVP server. Lets not ask to make it one. 

+2

[GR_Seb]

So here's my point of view. You are asking things to get balanced and you suggest that you the driver should be able to shoot from the driver seat. What will change? You complaint about 3 cars chasing you but you suggest a way to ESCALATE this by shooting an officer. What do you expect to happen?  Police will adjust in a day and you will have the police cruiser driver ready to shoot back while his passenger is getting your paperwork. And once you shoot first, you will get shot at from the driver too. Yes, shooting as a driver should be a thing when the car is stationary and forcing you on FIRST PERSON. But that's not a way to bring balance. You just make things worse. 

[apologisemeow]

6 hours ago, AnakinB said:

#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest man.

For sure they needs to be balance in pursuits imo the heli should only come out in situations like armed robberies or other acts of violence its so OP you pretty much have zero% chance of getting away, even with a large array of vehicles and man power PD and SD still have the advantage and it should be that way but the heli is overkill.

[deadeyedraw]

17 minutes ago, Papadakis said:

So here's my point of view. You are asking things to get balanced and you suggest that you the driver should be able to shoot from the driver seat. What will change? You complaint about 3 cars chasing you but you suggest a way to ESCALATE this by shooting an officer. What do you expect to happen?  Police will adjust in a day and you will have the police cruiser driver ready to shoot back while his passenger is getting your paperwork. And once you shoot first, you will get shot at from the driver too. Yes, shooting as a driver should be a thing when the car is stationary and forcing you on FIRST PERSON. But that's not a way to bring balance. You just make things worse. 

That is completely reasonable and I understand. But I think we should not be disabled. If we have to leave the car to shoot it will alert everyone around the car before we even pull out the gun. if we can do it secretly you will gain some time to Dip, since you can have tinted glass. I would happily take that risk to avoid being forced to leave my car.

[IAmTurtle]

21 minutes ago, apologisemeow said:

For sure they needs to be balance in pursuits imo the heli should only come out in situations like armed robberies or other acts of violence its so OP you pretty much have zero% chance of getting away, even with a large array of vehicles and man power PD and SD still have the advantage and it should be that way but the heli is overkill.

Evading a hell is really easy, as I have lost multiple cars while flying and son has bunkie who explained a pretty common situation. Especially in the city. This is just an aspect of learning how to drive and getting better than your Leo counterparts. 
 

also shooting out of driver side is kinda useless at this point…

[TheOwl]

The real issue is the economy.

Getting busted by PD wouldn't be an issue if crims weren't losing days worth of monotonous grinding every time they have an altercation with PD.

 

PD/SD should be able to use the fun tools they have at their disposal. I want them to have fun. The issue is that Crims have to spend a ridiculous amount of time doing monotonous grinding to secure the things they need to actually be a criminal in impactful ways.

 

Bala mentioned in a previous post that players who take risks for the RP get shit on and that is so spot on its insane. When you couple this with the amount of time crims spend doing anything but RP to simply GET money it's really not a wonder why they don't want to lose it in 15 minutes to an over powered faction, regardless of whether theyre jist trying to have fun. That being said if crims are going to take the meta route PD/SD are going to respond in the typical fashion.

 

The server puts a lot of blame on crims for not placing RP above winning or wanting to be able to kill cops to evade but how can you expect them not to? The deck is stacked against them and they spend a ridiculous amount of time doing things they don't really want to do in order to do the things that they do enjoy.

Just my two cents.

[deadeyedraw]

I forgot to mention that we can kill non cops too if we have dm rights. without having to lose time getting out of vehicle.

[ShunpoLife]

17 hours ago, deadeyedraw said:

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by ShunpoLife

[ShunpoLife]

+1

[Bala]

The key here is to understand that it's not supposed to be perfectly balanced.

If you want to look at it from a real world point of view, yes, people get away with shit but i'd say probably most criminals get caught at some point.

If you want to look at it from a game point of view, the advantage swings;

• Before you do something, you have the advantage as PD/SD is reactionary. For us to do something, you have to do something first.
• When you are doing something, the odds begin to even.
• When you've done something, the odds are in PD/SD's favour.

There are seldom times where criminals do actually think to switch up what they are doing and play things smart. Over time, even without all the units, you get used to the same approaches over and over. So when criminals do switch it up and do things differently, it can be more difficult to catch them.

The goal for us is to do what we can to catch you. The goal for you is to doing what you want and get away with it.

[Valor]

10 hours ago, AnakinB said:

#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest man.

As one of the shinobis in this pursuit, our shinobi's are not maxed, you almost lost us multiple times, you didn't lose us because the helicopter stayed on you because you didn't hide under highways, or go through tunnels like you could have, I would say we lose pursuits against shinobi's probably 70% of the time at-least.

Last night was honestly just a skill issue man, sorry.

[ComradeCorbyn]

10 hours ago, AnakinB said:

#just got into a 30 minute chase where it was 2 shinobis 1 helicopter 1 highspeed and like 3 cruisers, I honestly don't see how people can say the PD vs crim aspect of this server is balanced. There is no losing 2 shinobis, 1 helicopter, 1 highspeed, and 3 cruisers. Thats not something you lose. You go underground or under bridges for the helicopter? tuff shit the 2 shinobis are still on you you go on straights so u can lose the shinobis? tuff shit 2 shinobis still on you. plus now that your faster than my shinobis im gonna get a highspeed! in all honesty, it makes the server so unbearable to play criminal as its not enjoyable partaking in roleplay illegally with cops. I get the whole governent funding thing but bro government funding is not maintaining or even buying 2 shinobis @ 400k stock, 1 helicopter at (4-5 mil? probably for sure atleast 1 million its a helicopter) the stock price of any of the highspeed, and the 400k scouts thats just not realistic in the slightest man.

I'm not sure what idea you have of RP to where you think that a multi-million dollar police department SHOULD be balanced with any random criminal organization. I, in fact, agree with you though. I think it's a little absurd that every pursuit PD/SD engages in requires all-hands-on-deck response in terms of vehicles, but tell me this. Do you think it's realistic for any old criminal organization to be driving around Issi Sports, Paragons, Shinobis, BF400s, Manchez Scouts, Patriot milspecs, elegy retro customs, sultan classics, and on and on? Can you name a single organization where it makes RP sense for the organization to be driving around these vehicles? The answer is none.

It makes absolutely no sense that criminal organizations are driving around WILDLY out-of-character vehicles purely because they are more powerful. PD or SD would NEVER deploy excessive vehicles such as multiple shinobis, highspeeds, and so on for pursuits of most of the vehicles that would make RP sense for criminals to drive, but yet the complaint is always that PD and SD are unbalanced. I get it, you want to drive the cool vehicle and be the best gang, but have you though about roleplaying a realistic criminal organization?

[TheOwl]

@Bala I wholeheartedly agree.

PD/SD should have the advantage and yes the advantage crims have is the fact that PD/SD are reactionary. Meaning that the best chance crims have at evading are simply finding ways to not interact with PD/SD at all. Because like you've stated, once they have their chances of evading decrease drastically.

 

Now, as for creating inventive RP to evade police youre absolutely right. It is the crims responsibility to be inventive. That being said PD/SD respond with Meta in their own right.

 

Numerous players try creating new inventive ways to do crime RP. But its easily ruined by unsuspecting/inexperienced LEO players. If thats the case and I lose an AK and body armour to what otherwise would have been good RP then you can kiss that scenario goodbye. I am not grinding out another $110k at an average of $5k per hour to try it again.

You have one group of players that spend far too much time grinding to then have the responsibility of RP thrust upon them despite the fact that they are the only ones with someone to lose.

I mean for Christ's sake... the server can't even abide a few easy bank jobs with no LEO response during their last RP event.

 

What is each crim really pulling from that? 20 or 30k?