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Is it possible to have RP scenarios actually played out?

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So of course for the last couple of bank robberies cops have been getting held hostage and being brought to banks to rob them. To which they never have been treated in the appropriate way(MY OPINION). I do believe as a server that has such a high player base within the PD faction or government factions, you should allow criminals to create RP... There has been multiple times where they just fly in, or don't take every measure into account before proceeding with their RP. Now we put time and effort in this RP we must create as crims because if we don't we get bored out of our minds of the same old exact way of doing banks. We can't keep doing it the same way because PD is limited to ways they can respond to certain scenarios. So we created multiple different scenarios with different hostage situations, this time it included 2 Officers. I understand the experience of these SWAT officers but this is nothing close to the way you should react to TWO hostages especially if they are cops. The value of their lives were thrown out the window and I'm pretty sure they even shot at their own Officers in the process. We're trying to build a different way to approach RP or bank robberies and we can never fully RP how we planned it out. Win or lose, there is no RP involved on their side compared to the amount of time we put into it. We didn't even make it past the door.. 

Now of course its not about winning like I've mentioned, but we want to RP lol even if it means to RP with the cops in the bank and what not. RP with PD feels like it's done within 5 minutes. My last report against PD was about them being toxic and out of line just because the RP was over 40minutes long. Why is it that RP shouldn't be that long? Like why is it that every time it's just for them to neutralize the target? There's never any RP. No negotiator, nothing but click clack bang bang. It's a real pain when we've been here for over a year some of us even longer trying new ways to RP and we can't lol. Jason even mentioned earlier to find another way to get a hostage after telling us how our process and RP thought was amazing, so we did and we did even better than that. We had 2. So feel free to discuss, or tell me I'm completely wrong because there is no way in hell I am the only person who feels this way.

From 3:12, they have no idea what is in the bank yet one officer comes in crouch rolling in spraying. It's so much at this point that can be corrected but they choose to ignore our reports and complaints and just choose to find ways to get a loophole in why they reacted this way. You cannot even report this type of behavior anymore, they have an explanation for absolutely everything. "I was once a super cop so it's fine" is how I feel that I am spoken to when given reasons.

https://streamable.com/n6lctk

The report I mentioned: 

 

 

Being told we are pulling up like pizza delivery guys to the bank, the RP we attempt to create is something that should be taken into account and not have officers speak this way.

Edited by Tony Solicetto
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Yeah I agree theres very little RP from PD side when to comes to bank. The one thing I hate most which wasn't mentioned in this post is the "right of passage" which is isntanly ignored after the hostage is released to which the crims car is sprayed down with bullets and gets stopped within 3 seconds. Something needs to be done.

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Criminals don't want to hit a bank the same way every time... run in, grab cash, get on a BF 400 and drive away, maybe get a little chase and that's that. I know PD don't even like the BF 400 meta. So why when criminals come up with a unique way it is treated like this for example. In what world would officers coming flying down on a heli and just start lighting the place up. If we looked at the realism, the cop hostage would be dead, he was shot in the face multiple times due to the actions of PD. Why couldn't the RP just play out, I understand it may sound like a "play to win" argument but it really isn't. The was just completely unfair, instead of negotiating and attempting to RP it out, they just take out their automatic rifles and light the place up like its No Russian. It frustrating IC and OOCly cause due to all the time setting up, devising a plan and attempting to execute it, is just thrown out the window which results in very little RP in that situation. We spend a couple hours devising a plan just for PD to want the situation over in 2 minutes by just mag dumping, no care for the hostages life. Look more like a gang shootout than a hostage bank robbery. 

The more unique RP that can be conjured up, the more enjoyable it is for all parties, for example I had like a 30 minute evading chase due to murder charges, in that situation they played it out, they knew I was a murderer yet did not risk anything as I was driving around busy city streets. They could of easily shot my tires and ended the chase within 3 minutes but they didnt;. This led to the chase and the RP afterwards actually being enjoyable. I genuinely did not mind for the 3 hours of DOC because it was just a fun experience so I have to give them respect to all the officers involved in that. I even got to RP click the suspend button on my license, it just for fun, relax a little and enjoy the possibilities of RP.
  

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On 1/24/2022 at 6:47 PM, Tony Solicetto said:

So of course for the last couple of bank robberies cops have been getting held hostage and being brought to banks to rob them. To which they never have been treated in the appropriate way(MY OPINION). I do believe as a server that has such a high player base within the PD faction or government factions, you should allow criminals to create RP... There has been multiple times where they just fly in, or don't take every measure into account before proceeding with their RP. Now we put time and effort in this RP we must create as crims because if we don't we get bored out of our minds of the same old exact way of doing banks. We can't keep doing it the same way because PD is limited to ways they can respond to certain scenarios. So we created multiple different scenarios with different hostage situations, this time it included 2 Officers. I understand the experience of these SWAT officers but this is nothing close to the way you should react to TWO hostages especially if they are cops. The value of their lives were thrown out the window and I'm pretty sure they even shot at their own Officers in the process. We're trying to build a different way to approach RP or bank robberies and we can never fully RP how we planned it out. Win or lose, there is no RP involved on their side compared to the amount of time we put into it. We didn't even make it past the door.. 

Now of course its not about winning like I've mentioned, but we want to RP lol even if it means to RP with the cops in the bank and what not. RP with PD feels like it's done within 5 minutes. My last report against PD was about them being toxic and out of line just because the RP was over 40minutes long. Why is it that RP shouldn't be that long? Like why is it that every time it's just for them to neutralize the target? There's never any RP. No negotiator, nothing but click clack bang bang. It's a real pain when we've been here for over a year some of us even longer trying new ways to RP and we can't lol. Jason even mentioned earlier to find another way to get a hostage after telling us how our process and RP thought was amazing, so we did and we did even better than that. We had 2. So feel free to discuss, or tell me I'm completely wrong because there is no way in hell I am the only person who feels this way.

From 3:12, they have no idea what is in the bank yet one officer comes in crouch rolling in spraying. It's so much at this point that can be corrected but they choose to ignore our reports and complaints and just choose to find ways to get a loophole in why they reacted this way.

 

Agreed, nearly every time I am in scenario similar to this with PD/SD, it's always ended shortly. As crims, it takes forever to prepare for these scenarios, for situations like this to be ended off quickly because some people put catching the criminal first rather than thinking of the potential rp, (it's pretty damn annoying when this repeatedly happens btw). I haven't got the chance to build suspense and fully bring such a scenario to a decent closure because some players think catching the criminal at all costs without thinking is correct. Opportunities like this don't happen frequently, so at times when it does happen, why can't every party make the best of it? At the end of the day, we are all here for a good experience. Do we really have to go overkill and ruin the enjoyment of a situation, rather than just having fun with it? We must take all parties enjoyment and rp into consideration, if you were a crim, would you have fun spending time to prepare a high-risk scenario that will cost you so much jail time and money? Personally, I wouldn't, all we ask is that when rp'ing with crims, take their side into consideration as well. Think about all the possible outcomes that can be fun for each party and not just shoot, ram, etc to end a scenario, it's not about winning.  Now, I am not saying just let criminals get away, but leave room for people to rp and enjoy themselves and not just intentionally doing things to ensure that you catch someone. Keep in mind that PD/SD don't ever lose their gear due to it being a part of their loadout when they are on duty. Criminals don't have that same luxury; we have to grind and prepare for these things just to lose it like this. It feels as if these situations aren't even worth it anymore because majority of the time it ends up with an outcome such as this.

Edited by Jorden Sperry
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https://streamable.com/n6lctk

We put a lot of effort into getting a hostage all night, eventually I managed to get one totally naturally. You don't get a lot of chances to get a hostage in ECRP so when you get one it unlocks so many possibilities for RP and for it to be wasted like this doesn't feel great. I feel as though no one cared for Harrington's life, I had a gun on him while I'm being shot at, as well as the other cop being literally shot 5 times in the head (it's a whole different story of how wild it is that he doesn't get scriptly injured from that). 

We have to use various /me's to keep the gun on the officer so we still have some sort of leverage (as you can't scriptly keep a gun on them while driving), so for a cop to pull up and start blasting like they did, doesn't make sense and is far too fast paced roleplay considering the amount of text RP involved in these situations. 

I don't think PD truly understand how much we risk going into these types of situations, we've both been put in DOC for 5 hours with some heavy fines. For the roleplay to be terminated so fast by pulling up and shooting both of us, including hitting the officer at gun point is absurd. None of the officers pulling up checked in /do what the situation is with our guns, the text based roleplay is extremely important when there's so many script limitations at the very least these situations could be slowed down and RP'd properly. It feels as though taking hostages is just not an option as no one actually cares what happens to them, there's no IC or OOC down side to just pulling up and blasting as PD, the officer who got shot 5 times in the head is going to go about his day and the officer who started shooting me while I could've very easily put a bullet in my hostages head will face no repercussions for their actions, on the other hand we're fucked for 5 whole hours. 

My main question is what more could we have done in this situation? We have 2 guns pointed at 2 officer's heads both scriptly and RPly (using /me's) and we get gunned down. The only reason Tony didn't have his gun pointed directly at the officers head in the trunk was because he was teaching him how to get out of the trunk in /b. It says in the rules you are still under fear RP, just because the player is typing doesn't mean his gun is no longer pointed at you, but this wasn't checked or looked into before PD started shooting.

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As a mostly civ player, none of my interactions with LEO are as dramatic as the typical crim, however I've also noticed a serious uptick in PD/SD goading players and taking every opportunity possible to escalate in the past month or two. 

Not sure if it's just RNG (tiny sample size, after all) but the overall experience has gone from typically fun and RP - heavy (I've ran drag laps with an SD after being pulled over, had another go on video to lie to my wife, etc.) to what is now just dreadful where I can tell the officer is just begging for me to do *something* that can be seen as escalation, and when they see I won't just toss any charge that remotely sticks and go on looking for their next victim.

I've also noticed the paragraphs of text some players share in reports; and fact is real life is stranger than fiction and most any behavior seen on an RP server could be explained away as 'realistic'. I'd personally like stricter and clearer rules on LEO interactions, and a stronger emphasis on LEO attitude towards their characters and RP in general.

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 I found this video in a SD faction post after watching it I was disgusted by something said by the SWAT team. A group that should always be the best role-players around an be held to a higher standard. At 7:11 
ID 318 walks up to the group breaching a door and says "probably The is the biggest collection of swat we had in city in a while and there's been nothing to shoot and its been ridiculous"
Then ID 17 says "feel sad"

Just wanted to add this to this discussion
 
 
Edited by Not The Glizzy
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9 hours ago, Tony Solicetto said:

I just feel like no one wants to complain or report just cause they'd seem butt hurt. We put IRL time into these games lmao, no one wants to keep wasting their time we want to RP and have actual RP not just shooting.

I watch your video and you could be done some really cool Hostage situation with PD , asking them a extra money for that hostige to let him free or Heli to fly out or some fast car to get out with all your money and make some huge chase after your ass later .  You could spend more time to make some cool Roleplay situation but this change fast 

A lot cool things could be done but S.W.A.T team roll in like one big capper gang and didn't ask or say a word , running into  a bank like immortals with out any Tactical movement or plan . But that's what I saw from this Video . 

One more thing how they find out than he is in a trunk and they have a Hostige situation , so they that quick get on the situation ? Maybe I miss a part where they did 

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I mean, I brought similar grievances up with the standard of PD roleplay. This just ties into that, and reiterated that point further. In your POV we can literally see them shooting and spraying at there own officer being held hostage. 24 hours ago they filed a report against a gang for doing the same. PD do not care to play by the same rules as us. The head admins actually go as far as to change rulings to facilitate there behaviour? Why do they deem it okay to just spray in public like this? Literally because crims do it? THATS THE IDEA WE ARE CRIMINALS. This isn't a case of both sides need to be balance. Staff always say its not a cops and robbers server, yet they change the rules to allow PD to play it as such. This is just one of many awful practices done by police at bank robberies. We see threads like this pop up all the time, and nothing ever gets done to fix it. PD aren't a law enforcement agency, they are just a gang with the most staff support.

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I've done around 4 Hostages situations which involves a police officer being held at gun point in the last month and I have received a lot of positive comments from PD/SD officers saying how much they enjoy the hostage roleplay. However, I do believe that something needs to done about how PD/SD officers should handle hostage situations as the quality of the roleplay can be quite poor sometimes. I do believe that situations need to be played out a bit better especially after the hostage situation. I personally think that the crim should have the chance to evade especially after negotiating free passage instead of just being gunned down as it just feels like a great RP opportunity as gone down the drain. 

It would be such a shame to stop doing these type of RP opportunities as they can be enjoyable for the crim and PD/SD if it was played out fairly. I am personally a bit demotivated from doing these type of situations as I was recently accused of ruleplaying by a staff member because as I decided to take unique approach from getting the packed cash out of the bank by getting my faction members to pick it up and drive off with it. All the other times I've tried to escape I've either been tazed or been shot at as soon as I enter the car even after negotiating free passage if I release the hostage.

https://streamable.com/qfm0o6
https://streamable.com/4wj7e1
https://streamable.com/g8a30t
 

Edited by rashy
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I really think the best thing for this thread is for everyone to chill and wait for a response from someone in PD to hear their point of view or explanation. It's best this thread remains respectful yet still remaining criticizing to ensure an explanation of this comes around, or even better, a promise of change for better standards in the future.

The best way to have a dicussion like this is to respectfully get your opinion and point across, and then respectfully listen to the other party's opinion on the matter. Becoming insulting or overly negative of the other party immediately puts them in defence mode and essentially does nothing but cause arguments. I am eager to see what a PD opinion of this is though! 😄

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3 hours ago, Destuin said:

I mean, I brought similar grievances up with the standard of PD roleplay. This just ties into that, and reiterated that point further. In your POV we can literally see them shooting and spraying at there own officer being held hostage. 24 hours ago they filed a report against a gang for doing the same. 

And this is why I'm bringing it to discussion because as many reports as I want to make against PD, they either get closed/denied or last over a month when the rule breaks are very clear. We as crims waste our time is how I see it, what's the point of RP'ng as a crim?

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45 minutes ago, Harley said:

I really think the best thing for this thread is for everyone to chill and wait for a response from someone in PD to hear their point of view or explanation. It's best this thread remains respectful yet still remaining criticizing to ensure an explanation of this comes around, or even better, a promise of change for better standards in the future.

The best way to have a dicussion like this is to respectfully get your opinion and point across, and then respectfully listen to the other party's opinion on the matter. Becoming insulting or overly negative of the other party immediately puts them in defence mode and essentially does nothing but cause arguments. I am eager to see what a PD opinion of this is though! 😄

Bala deleted his whole response, but he did mention it wasn't on behalf of PD. Would love to have kept his big reply there so his own can understand his frustration in this as well.

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51 minutes ago, rashy said:

I've done around 4 Hostages situations which involves a police officer being held at gun point in the last month and I have received a lot of positive comments from PD/SD officers saying how much they enjoy the hostage roleplay. However, I do believe that something needs to done about how PD/SD officers should handle hostage situations as the quality of the roleplay can be quite poor sometimes. I do believe that situations need to be played out a bit better especially after the hostage situation. I personally think that the crim should have the chance to evade especially after negotiating free passage instead of just being gunned down as it just feels like a great RP opportunity as gone down the drain. 

So true, the RP that the Detectives Bureau can bring out in this would be dope! Them building a case example against "Deandre_Boreland for bank robbery" since they can't find you, set up stings, etc... There is so much RP to be done here. Now I come from NG:RP, an old RP SA:MP server that had literally every government faction so the detail in RP was always to a high standard and the possibilities were always so great so for sure when you come from a server like that, you kind of hold the same type of RP standard where ever you go. We used to go undercover in gangs as a detective and pursue case files etc. the RP we can do here with this player base is something that the government factions should take into account, maybe have an OOC meeting between you guys about it. You are in an RP server, lets make it the best one. I don't see others attempting such RP on the hourly basis so of course our frustration is justified 99.9% of the time.. 

Edited by Tony Solicetto
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53 minutes ago, Harley said:

The best way to have a dicussion like this is to respectfully get your opinion and point across, and then respectfully listen to the other party's opinion on the matter. Becoming insulting or overly negative of the other party immediately puts them in defence mode and essentially does nothing but cause arguments. I am eager to see what a PD opinion of this is though! 😄

You need to also understand that it isn't the first time, this has been going on for months and constant reports or discussions. You can't really expect anyone to be that calm or positive about this.. It only makes sense that anyone bringing it up for discussion or even replying with their own opinion is frustrated in a negative way. 

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14 hours ago, Glaikit said:

https://gyazo.com/d1745ec7b900b4e41129bfb524541e9f

The exact moment the helicopter starts spraying automated rifles.

Hi,

This has already and is being dealt with in-character is it should not be happening.

I run the Internal Affairs within the LSPD and I rarely receive reports to the nature of RP standards. I’d just like to reaffirm that IA is by all means a valid location to have your concerns thoroughly investigated as it is scrutinised by myself and faction leadership, but also senior staff and legal faction management. You can submit IC and OOC or even mixed complaints.

These threads are great and all, but sadly rarely gain proper traction due to the submission being in the wrong format and manner. If you want these threads for further views/opinions, that’s fine, but please do submit a formal report alongside it for proper resolution be that an IA report with the faction, or a player report on the forums.

I’d also just like to say that context is key and the first post lacks that - as it only shows the final reaction of the LSPD/LSSD factions.

Cheers.

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@Tony SolicettoTotally understand that a lot of people are going to be frustrated that there never seems to be any response or movement from threads, and I understand that it's difficult to keep that frustration in when disucssing something that is extremely important to you, I get that totally and please don't take my post as an attack, just more of a suggestion on how this threat should continue onwards. I've never seen a discussion that gets aggressive or off the rails lead to any satisfying conclusion, however ones that are kept respectful almost always end in a healthy discussion and eventually a satisfying conclusion such as change.

As @MrSilky has also said, the people managing the faction of LSPD also sees these things as issues and not all cops are going to be in the mindset I think a lot of people believe all cops are.

IA is a great way to go through if you're looking for someone to be punished for their actions, however I do believe these discussions are important to be public and not kept private, as the IA path would be private, kept out of public view and potentially not help the community's impression of the faction and what changes are being made to counteract the mistakes made. I do strongly believe that discussions like this should always be a thing and should promote public feedback, but it's also incredibly important for people to remain respectful and try to get their point across in a way that doesn't offend others and turn it into a pointless fight that gets out of control and gets closed and archived by staff.

Just my two cents on these types of discussions 😄 

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This is really disappointing to see in my opinion. My experience with BD in the city has taught me a lot about how to RP. They are really creative with creating RP scenarios in the Crim world and constantly think of new and exciting ways to make this server an enjoyable place for both other crims, and police. Their was a recent report from Shenzen Dragons, who where given an NRP punishment for shooting cops whilst their alias was very close to them, by that logic, surely this is NRP from the cops side. As soon as they open fire and kill the gang members, thats it, the RP is over. Its done. Surely it would have been more fun for all involved to actually carry out a hostage situation RP scenario, rather than gunning them down with automatic rifles whilst their fellow SD colleague is extremely close and could easily be killed in the crossfire. 

BD have enough members to carry out a bank job in a way which would result in them leaving and evading before the police ever arrive (not on every occasion, but in most) Instead they chose to create a very unique and exciting RP scenario, unfortunately the Police decided to end the RP immediately, which in my opinion, was carried out a very unrealistic manner. 

My question is why are actions that would be considered NRP handled in game via an IA report, and not by admins in an OOCly manner? 

Perhaps they should be considered by admins who are not the leader of the faction?

Or perhaps, if its not already a thing, cops should have some training OOCly of how to react and deal with certain situations?

Just my thoughts.

 

P.S 99.9% of my interactions with police in the city is that they hold a very high standard of RP, so please dont take this as some crim v cop mad man, as much as i hate them ICly, got nothing but respect and admiration OOCly 🙂 

Edited by Marty Bhoy
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