Copperhorse

A valid response to somebody driving recklessly is to not up the ante with uncontrollable automatic fire going 140+. If you want to reduce the risk to the general public you would try to get a helicopter on him and stop pursuing via vehicle. You can see this happening often in real police departments where they manage risk. When the person thinks they've successfully evaded they drive more carefully as they are not under as much stress. They pull into their house, park their car, and boom suddenly 20 cops at the door. Sure in that situation it's a fast vehicle and the units in the city wouldn't have been able to catch up. But I can't out run the radio. It would be much more feasible to launch a helicopter and have units in the county looking out for the vehicle in question. So even with you saying felony public endangerment, it does not warrant what happend in that video. Shooting automatic firearms vehicle to vehicle is even more felony public endangerment than driving a car recklessly would be.

I am strictly talking about risk / reward non-rp in this thread. There are a lot of things that we pass off as "just a game" on both sides of the aisle. Ultimately certain PD characters do have some great RP compared to the rest of the server. I never disagreed or said anything to the contrary. Just like criminals there's some good RPers and some bad ones. We have rules in place to prevent the bad ones from ruining the roleplay experience of the rest of the server. Why would you not want the same standard to be held for people in your faction? Are you not for enforcing a good roleplay experience for everyone involved? Do you only want to enforce the rules when it benefits you? Have some care about the roleplay experience of the rest of the server, it's not all about you. The problem is that we can't pass this off as "just a game" because it's not done so for the rest of the server. Driving on the wrong side of the road during a pursuit, sure it's not realistic but ultimately it doesn't really impact anyone's roleplay. We've pretty much agreed that it doesn't meet the standard of being non-rp for this server. What we have established due to the new rules is a risk / reward system for criminals. If you are risking a lot for a much smaller reward, it's considered non-rp and you will get punished for it. All I'm asking for is for that standard to be equal for EVERYONE in the server. Frankly there's a lot of stuff in this thread that is more "Crim vs PD". We've had that argument before and it went nowhere. I'm not trying to have this thread turn into that. There's a lot of stuff that I agree with and some that I don't agree with unrelated to the risk / reward that I am bringing attention to. If you are for enforcing a higher roleplay standard for EVERYONE in ECRP instead of a certain portion of the player base, I don't know why anyone would be against my suggestion. This was not meant to be controversial. When the new non-rp robbery rules were added a lot of the criminals on the server saw it from civilian / PD POV and agreed with the new rule because it provided higher quality roleplay. I expect PD / SD members to do the same. I'm not asking for a PD economy overhaul, I'm not asking for looting PD weapons, I'm not asking for slower police cars, I'm not asking for realistic deployment of SWAT, I'm not asking for a judicial system. I'm simply asking for fairness in the enforcement of a roleplay standard set by the staff team. Even if you want to say that stealing that commissioners car was non-rp, it does not mean that you should lower your standard of roleplay to the people you are roleplaying with. If we all did that the server would be a shit fest. There was no way in hell that SUV would've gotten away from that convoy of police. Shooting him with a .50 cal minigun was super unrealistic and had no care in the world for the risk / reward of doing so. It's not like this is a one time thing either. It is a common occurrence that PD / SD will use lethal force on a vehicle for felony evading even on major highways which are RPly populated with cars. It is lazy and unrealistic "roleplay". How much more roleplay is involved setting up spike strips down the road and communicating with your fellow officers? Or making sure everyone is ready for a PIT maneuver and box them in. Shooting at people for felony evading simply is lazy, unrealistic, and provides a poor standard of roleplay for the criminal and for the police involved. It simply has crossed the line of the acceptable realism that the staff has made people follow as of recently. All we want is for that standard, whatever it may be, to be applied to EVERYONE equally. Is fairness too much to ask for?

I've been noticing recently that the RP standards of these factions (PD / SD) are not up to par with what we've been told how the roleplay is supposed to be on ECRP in terms of the risk / reward of their actions. Somewhat recently, new rules were introduced to ECRP regarding unrealistic actions by criminals. The rule is here: Robberies should be conducted in a realistic manner with reasonable in-character motive using secluded areas. Players should not conduct minor robberies in situations with high risk. Desert or forest areas are considered secluded but witnesses should still be considered. Basically, we're advised to RP that we're living in a live metropolitan city. In locations where there are no other actual ECRP players, we are still required to RP as if there are NPC civilians in that area. Realistically there would be people there and even in GTA there would be people there if it was not for RAGE:MP limitations. We've grown to be accustomed to this rule and for the most part has improved the roleplay standards of criminals. On the other hand, there are a lot of PD situations that don't seem realistic at all and don't follow the same risk / reward standard that the criminals of this server are supposed to uphold. I'll list some evidence of this which recently happend in the past 2-3 days below and explain how they are unrealistic. Video #1: https://streamable.com/5x60ay In this video, you'll see a vehicle that was stolen from the commissioner by somebody using a lockpick. They were then chased by 10+ PD and a helicopter on a major freeway. In this video, it's clear that they are not held to any type of risk / reward standard that the rest of the server is held to. RPly, that highway would have vehicles in both lanes of travel. A Head Admin decided that it would be realistic and appropriate to use a .50 cal minigun and spray it down a major freeway for somebody who is simply felony evading. In no way shape or form was this person severely threatening the lives of the public or the officers to justify deadly force. Each one of those .50 caliber bullets would go straight through the vehicle and down the road for another mile until it hit into the dirt. The reward in this situation is KILLING somebody for Grand Theft Auto and Felony Evading. With the amount of presence PD had on this chase and taking into account the performance of a SUV, there was little no chance of this person getting away knowing the circumstances he was in. Shooting a .50 cal at him was completely unnecessary. The risk in this situation was countless innocent lives on a major freeway being hit by a .50 caliber bullet that is being SPRAYED with no time to steady the vehicle that is being driven or steady the next shot. The risk / reward in this situation that was approved by a head administrator is blatant non-rp and should be punished, but we know that it wont be. Would you be able to tell the difference between GTA:Online and a roleplay server watching this video? Video #2: In this video you'll see that I was chasing somebody in the city. PD / SD saw the chase and decided to turn on it and try to pursue it. There was a major head on accident where 1 person injured himself and another person stalled his vehicle. For some reason PD / SD decided to begin pursuing the F620 instead of attending to the injured. At this point I never threatened any person (gang or LEO) with any type of deadly force. Within 5 seconds I was being given demands to pull over or lethal force would be used. Knowing that I was going to be arrested, I decided to felony evade. As soon as I got on a major freeway one of the police officers acted on his demands and started spraying a Micro SMG vehicle to vehicle going speeds of 140 km/h+. Lets again go through the risk / reward of this situation from a PD POV. The reward in this situation is to capture or KILL (bullets are not 100% accurate) somebody for reckless driving and felony evading. The risk in this situation is having one of those 100 Micro SMG bullets that were shot by the officer hit another vehicle or person that would RPly be on that highway during mid day. It's clear that the risk / reward in this situation is not realistic. When's the last time you saw a police department shoot from vehicle to vehicle an automatic firearm for somebody just evading police? Had I been shooting back or had I murdered somebody that they knew of it would be one thing. But just for felony evading? In conclusion: The standard of roleplay in terms of risk / reward is not being evenly applied across the server. There are blatant risk / reward actions from both PD and SD that continue to go unpunished. This is a community suggestion for the staff of ECRP to hold EVERYONE to the same roleplay standards. To act like shooting somebody is the only way to stop their pursuit is ridiculous. There are script tools built into this server to stop pursuits by PD. You can PIT maneuver, you can spike strip them, or you can follow them with a helicopter until they think they've lost PD. All of these scenarios are common in real police departments. Only as a last resort, where peoples lives are on the line should deadly force be used from vehicle to vehicle. There is so much risk involved in doing so, which is why you would never see these actions from real police departments. All of these officers would be in prison. Please feel free to post any stories, suggestions, comments, or concerns relating to this.

-1 You'll kill labs more than they are already dead.

I've been playing on this server since March of 2019 primarily as a criminal. I've been in many different criminal organizations some just starting up and others already well established. Starting back with the old Irish group, which was the first gang I ever joined. The amount of RP we had with different gangs in terms of negotiations, solving problems that arose between gangs either diplomatically or through force, or making connections with others for weaponry or manpower was absolutely astonishing and fun. That was the most fun I've had in this server ever since, and that was 18 months ago. There was little to no intervention of staff on IC conflicts or IC decisions that factions would make for themselves. When a faction had to make an important decision it was entirely based on what knowledge they had ICly and how it would impact their faction going forward ICly. Around 6 months ago, I joined Los Zetas. What I immediately noticed was that a lot of the decisions that were being made were not due to IC factors, but because of the high command members being told what they could and couldn't do OOCly by Faction Management. Faction Management uses the guise that what they are doing is improving the quality of the roleplay on the server by setting certain standards or guidelines that all factions should follow should they want to be seen as an Official Faction. What I can tell you from my experience and from what the majority of other people have told me is that Faction Management has severely hindered roleplay in criminal organizations and a lot of the fun we were used to getting from logging into Eclipse. Starting off with Official Wars, which were created when Zetas, Triads, and Aztecas were fighting WCA and Dojin-Kai 3-4 months ago. I truly believe that Faction Management had good intentions when they created this system. However, this is the start of where Faction Management had overstepped their boundaries and turned from a group that would speak with Factions and recommend changes to improve roleplay into a group that would decide the outcomes of major current and future IC roleplay scenarios through OOC means. When we would "war kill" somebody, we had to go through an extensive review of each and every kill to determine whether it would be viewed as a "valid" war kill in Faction Managements eyes. We would have some roleplay scenarios where we put in extensive roleplay, follow all the guidelines of war killing somebody, and still be denied a war kill. There were some people we "war killed" 3 or 4 times before they were actually killed by Faction Management. On the other side, there were some people killed with LITERALLY no roleplay and were deemed a war kill. The whole system was a sham, had no consistency, and ruined the fun that I once had playing this server. Every situation had an OOC aspect given to it. IC things were no longer strictly IC. Nowadays when there's a conflict between two factions it doesn't work how it should. No longer do gangs meet up and solve things ICly. EVERY major IC decision goes through Faction Management. There is no more independence when it comes to factions and their high command. The true leaders of the factions are OOC members of Faction Management team who tell the IC high command members what they can and can't do. It's an absolute disgrace and has taken away any actual roleplay from criminal organizations. I believe it was one of the main reasons Los Zetas disbanded, and now it will be the reason I will no longer play Eclipse Roleplay. This division of staff has overstepped their boundaries and have taken away any type of fun in criminal roleplay used to exist and that we're all here to have. Recently, when I ask questions to members of high command of other criminal factions (more than one) about certain roleplay scenarios, more often than not the way they respond to me is using /b saying FM wont allow them to do this that or the other thing. Then they'll make up some IC excuse to respond with which conforms with what Faction Management allows of them to do, even though if they weren't constantly being hammered by Faction Management they would have likely made a different decision based on the IC factors at play. I genuinely loved playing Eclipse, which is why I have around 3,000+ hours played on the server. Steadily my love for the server has been going down due to a variety of factors, this being one of the major ones. When I started here I wanted to create my own story and make my own decisions with the other people who I involved myself with for hours a day. I didn't sign up to follow a script written by people who have no involvement in the roleplay scenarios that myself and my faction(s) have created. Should something change where Eclipse turns into an environment where I can truly have fun and create my own roleplay I may come back. But until then, have a good one!

Big +1. Or add it so if they get injured due to gunshots they lose their stuff if they die.

Date and time (provide timezone): 9/5/20 1:56 AM GMT -5 Character name: Jason Malgotti Issue/bug you are reporting: When placed in the trunk of the F620 you go under the map occasionally, when you are removed from the trunk it can send you to the original spot you were put in. This is not a one occurrence, and happens often but not all the time. Expected behavior: Should behave like a normal trunk. Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Vehicle license plate number*: SOBIVVAQ

You know that wont happen don't be silly.

Same thing for 1990 crown victorias but when did that ever stop anyone

I think having to show Fear RP against police officers is more powergamish than having to show Fear RP against criminals. It's totally reasonable for an unarmed criminal to run away from PD who has a gun pointed at them. You wouldn't fear being shot, as they could only shoot you if you are a deadly threat. Only time you should show Fear RP (in terms of evading) against cops is if you are armed, severely outnumbered, or have committed a violent felony that they know about. It should still be Fear RP to pull a gun out if they have one pointed at you because you are at a major disadvantage. On the other hand, criminals could shoot you for the smallest reason, so I think the strict Fear RP is more appropriate.

It's more like it doesn't go above $700. I've seen it above $620.

The system and monetary values are not the same. Selling 200 of one drug does not boost the prices of other drugs by $100 as it used to be. The ability to sell via Phantoms (2500 vol) at once and the ability to manipulate the prices should be reverted back to where they were.

+1 the way the old pricing system worked along with how it went up and down was perfect. Not too high not too low. Now it's very little profit for all of the work and all of the risk.

Yes either works for me, but all cars should be the same one way or the other.

Pretty simple, just like the rest of us they should be locking their cars. If they are caught lacking and somebody wants to steal it they should be able to. Otherwise, have the same option to remove the keys from all vehicles but add a hotwire mechanic to all vehicles to counter it. They are abusing the fact that their vehicles can't be started by using them as bait cars for people to break into, which then can't be started because it's an undercover vehicle so they have no way to escape. Seems kind of powergamish to me because we would have no idea that this car would be any different than any other car we got into.

+1, I believe this was done to increase server performance when we were hitting 600-700 players. We now only cap around 450-500 and I believe it can be reverted or made to be 6-8 hours of offline time.

-1 we already have too many NCZ's.

As if rules are applied equally to everyone. Come on now don't kid yourself.

Correct, they wont sell a kit including table, scale, grinder to people.

-1. Humane labs is a legal chemical company. They wouldn't be selling tables and tools to make illicit drugs.

The bug is that when the server crashes they will disappear.

Only if there is some way to "activate" the WI on the items. Otherwise when you walk into a custom made house you're just going to see walls of text everywhere. Maybe /removefurniture can toggle the WI interface for furniture items ON and OFF.

+1

This is wrong. I've had Law Enforcement open fire without a single shot being fired from our side many times.