Malcolm Carter Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) As I'm sure a lot of people know, the refund requests have just been processed after a 3 month period. During this time, there was a rule-change and Eclipse no longer give refunds for player-to-player loans. Fair enough. But why should the people who gave out loans before this rule was changed be penalised by this new rule change? Obviously nobody would have given out loans if they didn't have the safety net of a server refund if OOC reasons prevented the loan from being paid back (e.g. a player quitting, as in my case). It just seems very unfair to have previously refunded unpaid loans, to change the rule and then apply it to refund requests posted before it was enacted. It's bad enough we have had to wait for 2-3 months, I think the refund request should be dealt with using the rules that were in place at the time of the request, same as player reports. Example of how loans used to be dealt with: As you can see from Osvaldon's post, you used to give out refunds. It isn't fair to change the rule and apply this rule to refund requests made before it changed. Rejected loan refunds posted before the rule-change: Edited March 17, 2019 by Malcolm Carter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 both of mine got denied, the other one from this one was because he didn't want to pay it back, so he's just got 240k of my hard earned money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubmuffin209 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 what the fuck they literally accepted my refund then denied it what is this shit 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, scrubmuffin209 said: what the fuck they literally accepted my refund then denied it what is this shit the exact same happened to me, both got accepted and then they denied them both 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teca Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 +1 Seems strange when pumishments were handed out by the old rule book if they happened before new one got released. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asv321 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 +1, If the refund request was made before the rule change, then refund it. Mine also got accepted then denied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Carter Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 @Osvaldon is there anything that can be done about this or is that the server's final decision? We've all lost a lot of money due to a server rule-change happening after these reports were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohena Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 U SNOOOOZE U LOSEEEEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusketDeezNuts Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Moved to the correct section on request of the O.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hello, As I am one of the administrators that dealt with the majority of hand-to-hand loan refund requests, I can provide a bit more clarification on the exact reason as to of why your refund requests were denied. When the new refund request protocol came out, allowing Senior Moderators+ to approve/deny refund requests, there was a gray area and that was the policy for hand-to-hand loans prior to our newest rulebook. I had approved multiple refund requests for hand-to-hand loans, but was then contacted by a Senior Administrator in regards to there being different protocol for company loans and private loans. I then contacted Head Administrator @BallinByNature to see what his take was on the hand-to-hand loan refund requests, to which he informed me to deny any OOC refund requests for hand-to-hand loans prior to our newest rulebook as are only offering refund requests for unpaid loans from the scripted loan companies as scripted loan company contracts are supported by law. It is not the fault of the staff team or the server that you decided to give loans to strangers without utilizing the scripted loan company feature. You can take your IC contracts to law enforcement ICly, and deal with it from there, however, we will not offer OOC refunds for private loans. If anyone has any further questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them for you. Kindest Regards, Flucifial Eclipse Roleplay Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appelgi Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Flucifial said: It is not the fault of the staff team or the server that you decided to give loans to strangers without utilizing the scripted loan company feature. You can take your IC contracts to law enforcement ICly, and deal with it from there, however, we will not offer OOC refunds for private loans. How does this work when signing the contract at the bank? Does this mean that private loans are scammable no matter what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Appelgi said: How does this work when signing the contract at the bank? Does this mean that private loans are scammable no matter what? No, you can report them for breaching the NCZ or Scam rules, however, that does not mean we offer refunds for it. It is completely up to your discretion whether or not you want to give someone a loan, but OOC refunds are not offered for private loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asv321 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Further loans should have been denied, but when we did the loan, we thought we were protected, so I think that previous loans requests made before the new rulebook should be accepted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubmuffin209 Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 +1 i agree with @asv321 I made my loan 4 months ago and had a refund request up for 2 months and the refund request was taken down due to a false RWT Perma Ban that was appealed and accepted but during the time of the Ban my refund request was taken down and was told by a head admin named Ballin he told me to put up another refund request sense he couldnt or wouldnt reopen the old one and it was finally accepted after a month of waiting by you @Flucifial then denied a day later. The person i loaned the money to didnt ICly not give it back he got kicked for combat logging and never came back to the server so therefore i have no IC control over getting the loan money back. Also the loan contract was created at NCZ in bank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 8 hours ago, scrubmuffin209 said: +1 i agree with @asv321 I made my loan 4 months ago and had a refund request up for 2 months and the refund request was taken down due to a false RWT Perma Ban that was appealed and accepted but during the time of the Ban my refund request was taken down and was told by a head admin named Ballin he told me to put up another refund request sense he couldnt or wouldnt reopen the old one and it was finally accepted after a month of waiting by you @Flucifial then denied a day later. The person i loaned the money to didnt ICly not give it back he got kicked for combat logging and never came back to the server so therefore i have no IC control over getting the loan money back. Also the loan contract was created at NCZ in bank Once again, doesn’t mean we offer refunds. I was told by Ballin himself to deny private loan requests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 10 hours ago, asv321 said: Further loans should have been denied, but when we did the loan, we thought we were protected, so I think that previous loans requests made before the new rulebook should be accepted. It isn’t our fault that you thought that, it was a gray area before and clarification was provided. We don’t give refunds for private loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) On 3/18/2019 at 1:54 PM, Flucifial said: It isn’t our fault that you thought that, it was a gray area before and clarification was provided. We don’t give refunds for private loans. If we knew it was "NON-REFUNDABLE" then, of course, we would have never given out these loans. Like many people here I gave out a loan because I thought it was safe, I had seen people get accepted for private loans before I gave mine out so assumed it was safe, during the waiting period for my loans (2 months ago) the rules were changed, I'm not here to argue but people who had loans given out before the change of the rules I think deserve some sort of refund, 100% if I had known the dangers of giving a loan out I would have NEVER done it, likewise for many others here I would've thought. We all understand the rules and dangers of giving loans out now but before they were changed, how were we supposed to know, hmmm? we couldn't possibly know the dangers, I respect @BallinByNature's choice to deny them but we were just a few people looking to make some money on eclipse (it wasn't huge amounts it was like 20k profit for like 2 weeks) ( not really worth the hassle now). Private loans have been refunded in the past before the change of the rules, am I right @Flucifial ? Why is it fair we don't get refunded, what have we done that many others before (that got refunded) didn't do to deserve a refund? I speak for many people here and love the eclipse RP community, most if not all of us have lost valuable time-consuming money due to loans. As you know it takes forever to make a couple of hundred thousand in eclipse. One other thing I don't understand is why aren't the people who have robbed us, poor hard-working men, being punished for what they have done? No-one has brought this point up as far as I' concerned, so if I'm not going to get my money back like many others I would at least want some PUNISHMENT being handed out to those who have done wrong within the community. Like many others here I have spent a long time writing this, please take the time to read and understand where we are coming from, I speak for everyone who has lost hundreds of thousands due to people not being respectful within the community. - sincerely JJay Edited March 19, 2019 by Walkers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootless Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Our refund requests were valid by rules previous rule-book. It doesn't make sense that you will perma ban someone for not paying one of these loans back and refuse to issue a refund. It is scamming and this seems to be odd that if someone breaks this rule the staff team refuses to repay it. If someone were to DM me and i had 3 aks on me you would refund me due to rule-break. When someone scams you it should be no different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Carter Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 9:37 PM, Flucifial said: It is not the fault of the staff team or the server that you decided to give loans to strangers without utilizing the scripted loan company feature. You can take your IC contracts to law enforcement ICly, and deal with it from there, however, we will not offer OOC refunds for private loans. Ok so it is a grey area but why not just refund the requests out of good faith for players who felt secure enough in the server's previous refunding protocol to give out huge loans? We are all hundreds of thousands out of pocket which is tens of hours of our time wasted. Since you don't refund interest it's not like the refund is something we were hoping would happen - I lost money anyway by not getting interest and not having the money in my account for months to do other things with. Why are you being so harsh with us when we felt secure enough in the server's administration team that you wouldn't let us get screwed? It's not that you can't do it, but that you won't. Which I find odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Malcolm Carter said: Ok so it is a grey area but why not just refund the requests out of good faith for players who felt secure enough in the server's previous refunding protocol to give out huge loans? We are all hundreds of thousands out of pocket which is tens of hours of our time wasted. Since you don't refund interest it's not like the refund is something we were hoping would happen - I lost money anyway by not getting interest and not having the money in my account for months to do other things with. Why are you being so harsh with us when we felt secure enough in the server's administration team that you wouldn't let us get screwed? It's not that you can't do it, but that you won't. Which I find odd. agreed, we put a lot of trust into this server, 100s of hours played and time earning money, we thought we could trust the people within the community, and when they would break rules and ruin the experience, it looked like we could fall back onto you guys and trust you (before the change of the rules). we've put trust into the server and thought we could get some trust back from you guys. It looked like that with the previous refunds you guys have done before the rule change, so why is ours different? That's over 290 hours played on eclipse! (that's just on one character) Edited March 20, 2019 by Walkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 9:10 PM, gohena said: U SNOOOOZE U LOSEEEEE for the record, all of the refund requests shown above were made before the rule change, so what does " U SNOOOOZE U LOSEEEEE " supposed to mean to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkers Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 9:47 PM, Flucifial said: No, you can report them for breaching the NCZ or Scam rules, however, that does not mean we offer refunds for it. It is completely up to your discretion whether or not you want to give someone a loan, but OOC refunds are not offered for private loans. This is what we are doing, we are reporting them for breaking the rules and scamming, but none of two things are happening 1. punishments are not being handed out 2. we are not getting back what we were scammed for (all before the rule change) we all understand that we should tell them to use a loan company NOW, but before the changes we didn't, did we? And whats to say that company loans aren't the same as private loans, they do the exact same thing, sign documents (both in NCZ) and expect their money paid back when due, how would they go about getting the money that has been scammed off of them? they would make a refund request with valid evidence, the exact same what we are doing. we understand why you are doing it, guessing its because loan companies aren't getting enough business and we taking that away from them so you have added an element of risk to us giving out private loans, but this is after the rule change, we didn't have any of the info in the rule book we have now then, did we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Carter Posted March 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2019 @Pvle @FlyElvis Hey guys do you have anything to contribute to this thread? Since you are losing out at the moment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvle Posted March 24, 2019 Report Share Posted March 24, 2019 i dont own a loan company anymore and i get back money im good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
