How to balance Crim vs LEO interactions

[Demonmit1]

this forum post was made in suggestions, but didnt make any suggestions on how to fix it. so i'll make a post on suggestions to potentially fix LEO vs Crim balancing.

Civilian and Crim RP is HEAVILY reliant on assets. Civs have to buy their cars, pay for repairs, buy their weapons at full price, pay fines if they get lost or stolen, etc etc.
Crims have to buy their cars, pay for repairs, grind money to buy weapons from cartel/other crims, pay fines for prison, and lose everything they're holding if they get caught, and are open to losing even more if they get raided.
LEO's currently are completely unaffected by assets, as all of their assets are free, spawned in, with no limits, and no repercussions on losses or damage. i think this is the root of the problem on why Crim vs LEO RP is in a bad spot from Crim's perspective, and people are regularly complaining about LEO;s getting buffs, and Crims getting more nerfs on being able to generate money.

so here are some suggestions on how to balance LEO's to make them more asset based similar to civ and crims, to make the playing field more "fair".

1. LEO's should pay collateral for checking out weapons, equipment, and vehicles. 

• LEO's currently have absolutely no monetary risk for losing an interaction, so they currently do not have any realistic scripted reason to value their lives and possessions as a LEO. implementing a system where LEO's have to pay a cash collateral to "check out" their equipment, firearms, and vehicles, would make a very big impact on LEO RP. 
• LEO's would be able to pay to pull out their weapons, and the payment would be returned upon clocking out. theft, damage, or loss due to dying would cause the collateral to be lost, and not refunded. the more powerful weapons would cost more collateral, the more powerful vehicles would cost more collateral.
• civilians have to file a lost firearm report, pay a fine, and then purchase a new firearm at full price. LEO's are not above the law and should be required to do the same, but since its handled by a faction, they could get discounts on the cost of the firearms being used while on duty. that would make the most sense.
• this would open up an actual viable way hardened crims can negatively affect a LEO in RP. hardened crims shouldnt be filing IA reports, thats pretty obvious and has been discussed heavily. but if a crim can target a specific cop, hurting their wallet, causing them to lose money, that would be an effective way for crims to "take down" specific cops.

2. LEO's could then be lootable. 

• if the weapon, gear, vehicles are being paid for with collateral, they could now be lootable for Crims to obtain. 
• this would be a VERY big change and would require very close attention being paid to not completely upset the balance of firearms on the server. 
• this would force LEOs to value their life and gear significantly more. currently knowing theres no risk for them to get robbed and make a crim stronger with better weapons, LEOs are much more free to not care about losses. 
• a downside to this is Cops could now be randomly targeted as a "loot piñata" for easy guns, and could increase random DM's against LEOs. it would have to be watched carefully by staff

3. LEO's should have a weekly budget on how many guns and vehicles can be spawned.

• there should be a scripted limit of how many rifles, shotguns, pistols, and tasers that are available to LEOs to check out for going on duty.
• this would force LEO command structure to have to manage who is pulling out what, how many times, and who's losing what to crims / deaths. this would force LEOs to have to prioritize what gear and vehicles should be used for which situations, as there is now a scripted limit. this would help reduce 7 units and a helicopter being used for a random traffic stop, or every LEO running around with AR's at all times of the week.
• each week the total would be reset the amount available. 

each suggestion could be a standalone suggestion, or they could be combined to work together. open to suggestions and hearing other peoples ideas on the topic. thanks.

Q: Why should LEO's have to pay to do their job?
A: LEO's wouldnt have to pay to do their job. they would have to pay if they suck at doing the job by losing faction assets

Q: Why should LEO's lose their collateral payment if they die? wouldnt they be NLR'ed, negating the loss?
A: Why should Criminals lose their gear if they die if they're NLR'ed? it wasnt them who died, right? lol, this is a dumb question.

Q: What if a new player on PD doesnt have enough money to cover collateral for their equiptment?
A: 1. collateral should be a significantly smaller percentage of what the weapon actually costs for civ/crim, as the cost should mostly be covered by LEO's faction. 2. "new players" cant be a cop 3. if you suck so bad at your job that you keep losing money on collateral that you dont have any left, get a second job?

Q: Why should LEO's even be required to pay anything to use faction assets, isnt that paid for by the faction?
A: Factions scriptly have infinite money and infinite equipment. there's no way to realistically charge the faction for lost assets. so the next best thing is to charge the officers who are losing the assets. I understand that LEO's should be more powerful and less restricted on gear than Crims, but currently LEO's are regularly seen as abusing the fact that there is no risk for wasting expensive assets on petty crimes, or losing assets by being bad at the job.

Q: You're saying Crims and civs are asset based. you dont need assets to RP
A: your right. Crims dont need expensive weapons to RP. but if they get caught, they still have to pay fines and lose money. LEO's currently getting caught by crims or dying have no risk of any sort of loss. why should they be immune to losing money for their mistakes, when Crim/Civ lose money when they make mistakes?

 

Edited February 5 by Demonmit1

[SaberBucks]

Hello, I want to try to put my input into this because I've seen 3-4 posts like this in this past week alone. As someone who tries to do both criminal and legal as much as possible. I can understand both sides of the argument. Although I haven't gone that far in either of them, I can understand all the points being made. I will agree when you say when you are doing something illegal it is very possible that with one crime you can see yourself gone for 3 hours in prison, in debt, or even losing things that you grinded for much longer than a day. On the other hand, as a legal, you aren't really subjected to losing anything other than 5-10 minutes to regenerate your wellness and the run/drive back to the station if you are killed. 

I have a suggestion that I think can help balance things as much as it should be. Keyword "should be". I say that because I don't believe that it should ever be "fully balanced" between LEOs and criminals. The day that IRL criminals aren't scared of police and will take a head-to-head confrontation with them is the day we will all get off of this game and barricade our houses because full on anarchy will follow. It will be something similar to that in the Purge movies. Crims should always fear a head-to-head confrontation with police as rply LEOs should be better trained, better equipped, and outnumber some street criminals. 

My Suggestion

With all that being said the only thing that I can see realistically being implemented is that in the case that a LEO dies or needs to take out a new cruiser. It will take a small amount out of their salary. Say that the average salary is 5.5k. Taking out a new cruiser or a new weapon loadout from the station will deduct 250-750 from their hourly salary (or whatever is deemed appropriate). While it may not seem like a lot it is the most realistic outcome in my opinion. Police/Military IRL don't pay for their equipment, and it is acquired through our tax dollars so it would be unrealistic to say that a police officer has to pay or is limited to 2 guns a week. However, I do acknowledge that this is a game, and it must be enjoyed by all parties which is why a small change like this will allow LEOs to be more likely to stick with the same cruiser or to not try to hero cop in a situation. 

[Demonmit1]

4 minutes ago, SaberBucks said:

I do acknowledge that this is a game, and it must be enjoyed by all parties which is why a small change like this will allow LEOs to be more likely to stick with the same cruiser or to not try to hero cop in a situation. 

exactly. im not recommending cops have to cough up 20k to check out a shotgun, and if they lose it they lose the 20k, the specifics of the cost for losing an asset would have to be balanced so its not overbearing for LEO players, but should have some monetary loss that LEO's would need to consider before they decide to go roll out fully stacked with expensive high tier guns to go do traffic enforcement. there needs to be a balance, and I think making LEOs have some form of monetary risk for losing a situation/dying is a good way to go about it.

[Bala]

I think all due respect to you or any one else wanting this to be a thing.
The perception by the same people wanting this, of PD and SD is that we're try hards and we'll do anything to 'win' a situation.

Fuck the "realism" argument for a minute. Fuck the "it's a game" argument as well.

Let me ask you, with all seriousness and honesty, do you think that PD and SD would be more or less likely to try and do anything to win a situation, if those are the stakes?

Combine that mentality with a faction that doesn't have limitations on the amount of people it can hire, combine that with a faction that has access to some pretty high powered vehicles and weapons and combine that with a faction that gets shot at on a daily basis and trains against that. 

Are you REALLY sure that is the sort of Police Department you want to encourage?

We are not the same kind of faction. Our roles and our objectives are completely different. So, why are we comparing?

I speak for myself when I say this but if we go that way, either I'm doing absolutely nothing to put myself in harm's way or I'm saying fuck the roleplay and making sure you have as little to no chance to do anything like that.  The problem with adding those kind of consequences to losing for PD/SD, is that our objectives and mentality inevitably changes.

Trust me, you might think you want it but you don't.

Edited January 4 by Bala

[John Nut]

I have a decade + experience in all kinds of RP games where iv had  LEO´s pay for equipment and where we dont such as ECRP does it. The problem between LEO and Crim is something that has been there regardless of the situation.  

I have both a crim and LEO character.   If im out on my crim I will do my best not to loose as it will hurt my stash, bank account, suspended license and etc (90% of the time) 

But when I play on my LEO I can finally relax, have some fun and create some fun for the players I interact with and not "play to win"  (we all have a bad day sometimes and just dont want to loose regardless). Now this is different with every person. Some play LEO full time and they have a completely different mindset/playstyle and I can fully understand that they "play to win" such as we crim´s might, As its their only charactr, and loosing 10 out of 10 situations gets really annoying/booring at times. 

There is only small things we can change, but in the truth is that is has very little with the "server" side but everything to do with the players, Now I personally believe having LEO not pay for things is the best way, as it allows many of us to just fully relax and have a good time, but also allow those with the "play to win" mentality to  shine and go full rambo when they perhaps shouldnt.   

 

I as a main crim get very annoyed at LEO sometimes, but thats just how it is. I experience it on my LEO aswell being frustrated at crims  for surtain stuff. 

 

Long story short, I dont believe the crim vs LEO  will ever go away, I dissagree with having LEO pay as it will make them play more to win as they dont want to loose assets. +1 to what Bala said.    

Edited January 4 by John Nut

[SaberBucks]

5 hours ago, Bala said:

I think all due respect to you or any one else wanting this to be a thing.
The perception by the same people wanting this, of PD and SD is that we're try hards and we'll do anything to 'win' a situation.

Fuck the "realism" argument for a minute. Fuck the "it's a game" argument as well.

Let me ask you, with all seriousness and honesty, do you think that PD and SD would be more or less likely to try and do anything to win a situation, if those are the stakes?

Combine that mentality with a faction that doesn't have limitations on the amount of people it can hire, combine that with a faction that has access to some pretty high powered vehicles and weapons and combine that with a faction that gets shot at on a daily basis and trains against that. 

Are you REALLY sure that is the sort of Police Department you want to encourage?

We are not the same kind of faction. Our roles and our objectives are completely different. So, why are we comparing?

I speak for myself when I say this but if we go that way, either I'm doing absolutely nothing to put myself in harm's way or I'm saying fuck the roleplay and making sure you have as little to no chance to do anything like that.  The problem with adding those kind of consequences to losing for PD/SD, is that our objectives and mentality inevitably changes.

Trust me, you might think you want it but you don't.

Hey, you definitely bring up some interesting points. Yes, implementing a system like that will likely do one of the two things you mentioned. However, imagine if criminals adopted the same mindset. Where they walk around with baseball bats with nothing illegal. This will result in LEOs doing nothing but printing tickets and giving reckless charges. It will eventually become stale for LEOs because personally, I enjoy the diversity in things you may experience as a LEO. Or even worse, do “anything” to win a situation as you said. Which will just result in poor roleplay and rule breaks. You may be right where this system isn’t the right method, and it is very possible that there may never be something that is implemented on the LEO aspect to make it seem fairer. My whole argument is that it’s really a 50/50 relationship with sacrifices on both sides but if the second one isn't content with what they are getting in return, it becomes a problem. I will end this by saying that I personally have no issue with how it is right now but as I mentioned I really haven’t dabbled that much in either so it would be unfair of me to speak much for either side, so I simply just state my opinion. So maybe you are right, if something isn’t broken then don’t attempt to fix it.

EDIT:
@John Nut and @Bala you both make a good point. If LEOs were forced to pay for things than they will likely implement a "try hard/play to win mentality". As I have stated I've dabbled in both, and truth be told LEOs are better RPers, and I wouldn't want that to change so I will be the first to say that my idea likely would not be beneficial to anyone.

Edited January 4 by SaberBucks

[Demonmit1]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

Let me ask you, with all seriousness and honesty, do you think that PD and SD would be more or less likely to try and do anything to win a situation, if those are the stakes?

yeah that's a really good point. i said previously, i dont currently play a hardened criminal or a LEO, so im very much an outsider looking in on the situation. im looking at it from a different perspective from both sides of it, and thinking of potential ways to find a solution.

i knew LEO players would be very against a system where they would have to risk their time and money for using police faction equipment. yet, thats exactly what its like to be a crim, you're risking a significant amount of time and money that could be removed from your character. I can understand their frustration looking at cops, seeing that they risk nothing, and from what i understand, thats the core of most peoples argument and frustration when in RP, they get into conflict with police.

I can see how it would backfire with how you explained it, causing more LEO players to "play to win" rather than RP reasonably, as their money is now on the line for "losing" a situation. obviously thats not the goal. 

I think one of the big points that crims are frustrated with, is that some of them can have long term goals, properties they'd wish to buy, cars they'd wish to buy, RP they want to try but cost a significant investment to get into, etc etc, and currently theres been a fair amount of criminal money making methods nerfed. So, not only is it now harder for a crim to make consistent money doing criminal activities, it now takes longer to recoup equipment for them if they make a mistake and get caught, having to grind for several in game hours to do so.
where as, as a LEO, you get to do your RP, get paid for it, get access to all the fun toys of being a LEO, and have no risk for any loss if you make a mistake, growing your wealth to do other things, buy properties, nice cars, and buisnesses.

there has been a pretty big surge of players who have been criminal mains abandoning criminal RP, creating new characters to do Civ or PD RP, just because of the consistent and regular nerfs and the intense amount of grinding required to reasonably progress as a crim.

There's clearly a problem, the Crim side is very consistently complaining about effectively the same thing, but the solution is extremely complicated. some of these suggestions might be a good fix, a bandaid fix, or completely backfire. 

There are several great cops that put in the time and effort to RP, have different level of responses to different levels of situations, and make a fun time of it for everyone involved. but there is also a lot of cops that roll extremely heavy, all together, and dogpile onto super small situations with extremely overwhelming force, for situations that just absolutely do not call for that. making it not fun for the civ / crim involved, not letting them have any sort of option to respond.

How would it be possible to get those cops to properly respond with a reasonable amount of force? the best thing i can think of is forcing them to risk money if they lose their gear, just like civs and crims are forced to play. do you have any better suggestion to fix it?

Edited January 4 by Demonmit1

[alexalex303]

16 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

How would it be possible to get those cops to properly respond with a reasonable amount of force? 

The best way to get cops to properly respond with a reasonable amount of force is for criminal roleplayers to respond with a reasonable amount of force.

People started ambushing cops at traffic stops over relatively small things, therefore, law enforcement started having a good number of units present at every traffic stop.

People started using shinobis to evade law enforcement excessively, therefore, law enforcement started using shinobis to pursue those bikes. 

Law enforcement is for the most part, a reactionary job/faction, and their policies will reflect what is needed to police the server. 

Edited January 4 by alexalex303

[Demonmit1]

6 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The best way to get cops to properly respond with a reasonable amount of force is for criminal roleplayers to respond with a reasonable amount of force.

People started ambushing cops at traffic stops over relatively small things, therefore, law enforcement started having a good number of units present at every traffic stop.

People started using shinobis to evade law enforcement excessively, therefore, law enforcement started using shinobis to pursue those bikes. 

Law enforcement is for the most part, a reactionary job/faction, and their policies will reflect what is needed to police the server. 

ah yes. reasonable force is expected from both sides.

calling in a blackhawk for a fistfight at burgershot is reasonable for police in case a cop gets ambushed and needs aerial sniper support...

7 cop cars completely tied up in a single situation over a stolen cop car. sure, thats important, but theres been so many times theres huge chases over a single evader where all the cops in the whole server are chasing and not responding to anything else. good use of resources.
9 cops responding to a single individual already cuffed and tazed just in case the single guy with handcuffs on start shooting everyone.

Circumstantial? sure. but this is just what ive seen as a civ in the past 2 days. its pretty consistently happening, seeing LEO's respond with massive force over relatively minor altercations. its almost every day i see it happen, i could dig through the past months worth of footage and show each one ive come across. lol

 

Quote

Law enforcement is for the most part, a reactionary job/faction, and their policies will reflect what is needed to police the server. 

at no cost or risk to any of the officers involved, where they regularly use outrageously overbearing gear and responses, for mundane interactions, making crims more upset with the extreme force used for simple things, causing crims to act out more. its a self feeding cycle, where one side that loses has to spend hours to days to recoup losses, but when the other side, if they lose, lose nothing.

its on the LEO's side to reduce the use of excessive assets, cause their assets are infinite and free. t heir use of extremely powerful assets need to be limited for the circumstances that they are responding to, or they need to have something on the line to risk for using such powerful assets and the chances to lose them.

[quizzlytv]

Just make the cops body lootable . It will increase the roleplay situations by a lot. Yes a lot of people will die for those weapons but it will be fun !
It will stop the hero play cop rp that all cops do for some reason when they do 1v2 or 1v3 situations . We need to force the FearRP Rule somehow to them.

Some bait call cops might happen in attempt to take their weapons but the cop can always stay inside the cop car if he is afraid in random spot somewhere far away from backup units.

That will make it more realistic . You need to reward crims at the end of day if they killed someone.

Edited January 4 by quizzlytv

[SaberBucks]

3 hours ago, quizzlytv said:

Just make the cops body lootable . It will increase the roleplay situations by a lot. Yes a lot of people will die for those weapons but it will be fun ! It will stop the hero play cop rp that all cops do for some reason when they do 1v2 or 1v3 situations . Some bait call cops might happen in attempt to take their weapons but the cop can always stay inside the cop car if he is afraid in random spot somewhere far away from backup units. That will make it more realistic . You need to reward crims at the end of day if they killed someone.

In an ideal world I can see that working but we aren't in an ideal world. This will just lead to Cops v Robbers and people will have an incentive to fighting cops which shouldn't be the case. Also, this really wouldn't help with the whole concept of "hero cop" because if the argument is that LEOs don't lose anything. LEOs will continue to lose nothing, and criminals will be the ones to gain from it. It will just lead to poor reasoning to fighting LEOs and inevitable rule breaks.

[quizzlytv]

5 minutes ago, SaberBucks said:

In an ideal world I can see that working but we aren't in an ideal world. This will just lead to Cops v Robbers and people will have an incentive to fighting cops which shouldn't be the case. Also, this really wouldn't help with the whole concept of "hero cop" because if the argument is that LEOs don't lose anything. LEOs will continue to lose nothing, and criminals will be the ones to gain from it. It will just lead to poor reasoning to fighting LEOs and inevitable rule breaks.

Yea but cops will not try get in a fight without backup  cause now they will give weapons for free right? And maybe if they have to pay for the lost gear will also force to RP more carefully and maybe more realistic?

 

[Requiem]

I find the logic behind the suggestion and reasoning to be an issue. If the case is being made that criminals are having a hard time making money and they lose all their stuff constantly, your suggested solution to the problem at hand is to make legal roleplayers suffer with them? Rather than suggest a fix for the alleged issues, spread the issues to others. Doesn't really seem ideal. The issue should be dealt with by fixing the problem, not spreading it to others. 

As to the points being made, as AlexAlex already mentioned, Law Enforcement factions are reactionary. They do what is needed to properly police. If one gang starts piping up and shooting cops every day, evading police constantly, robbing banks non-stop, then measures will be taken against them to ramp up force and policing to deal with the problem.

The suggestion here is to make police pay for the equipment they use and make them lootable. There is also a comment above regarding an alleged issue with "hero cops" and the solution is to make them lootable. If this were implemented and cops run the risk of losing their things and criminals getting ahold of those assets, what do you think police are going to do? Let criminals run free because they are too scared to get out of their vehicle? Quite the opposite....every traffic stop will not have 4 police cruisers on it, but 8 instead. Every ATM or store robbery will not have one or two cops pulling up to it, but an armored truck full of 200 AP, heavy rifle SWAT officers. Steps will be taken to minimize the risk and to ensure criminals don't get ahold of the guns from cops. If there are complaints about police raids on criminal properties now, imagine if some gang members shot and killed a couple cops and took their guns. You can expect 2-3x as many doors being knocked down by the SWAT team. Every situation would have a helicopter with a sniper gunner in it to ensure cops aren't being shot for their weapons. 

If the military style police state described above is what you would like to see, by all means, keep pushing for the suggestion made. 

[SquirtleSquad]

9 hours ago, quizzlytv said:

Just make the cops body lootable . It will increase the roleplay situations by a lot. Yes a lot of people will die for those weapons but it will be fun !
It will stop the hero play cop rp that all cops do for some reason when they do 1v2 or 1v3 situations . We need to force the FearRP Rule somehow to them.

Some bait call cops might happen in attempt to take their weapons but the cop can always stay inside the cop car if he is afraid in random spot somewhere far away from backup units.

That will make it more realistic . You need to reward crims at the end of day if they killed someone.

 

Sorry, but none of this looks like good RP to me. This all looks like "why pay for a shipment when I can bait a cop during night shift to come to a place of a suspected robbery and kill them". 

Cops already adhere, and are punished for breaking FearRP. We abide by the same server rules as crims, civs and legals adhered. We are not immune to server rules. Baiting cops is also against server rules, so yeah that's a bit no on this one as well.

If you want this to be more realistic, then crims should be losing 90% more then they already are. As Bala said, "Fuck the "realism" argument for a minute." This is just going to get crims nerf'd even harder. 

You want a reward for killing a cop? How about keeping your assets? How about keeping your guns? How about keeping your freedom and your license un-suspended? That seems like a pretty good reward to me.

 

These conversations about balancing LEO vs crim shouldn't need to happen with balancing out LEO, but instead more focused on how we can better improve crims. I enjoy my RP, and I don't enjoy being hunted for my guns. That makes zero sense to me, as then when I'm on duty when server pop for LEO is less than 10 for PD/SD, I just won't clock on. I don't need to die because I pulled someone over for doing 180 km/h in an 80km/h zone, because they say I have a Pistol .50 and a taser on me and think it's free reign.

 

9 hours ago, quizzlytv said:

Yea but cops will not try get in a fight without backup  cause now they will give weapons for free right? And maybe if they have to pay for the lost gear will also force to RP more carefully and maybe more realistic?

Cops don't get into fights NOW without backup en-route. They dismount to take cover because you can't shoot when you're in the driver seat. Drive away, you're still a sitting duck.

[SirQubed]

I can understand why this suggestion was made. As someone who has mained a LEO for the past 4 years and dabbled in crim RP from time to time. I have to say LEO players for the most part don't do it for the money. Legal characters for the most part don't have anything to spend money on. Sure there are cars, house and the odd business but for the most part a majority of the transactions on the server are from crim to crim or crim to NPC (Orders) 

I personally play a LEO for the experience with other players and to hopefully make a positive impact on their experience on the server. As mentioned by others, LEO's are reactive to situations put out there by others. If we notice a group is shooting, ambushing or causing mayhem on a regular basis, then sure we react within IC protocol to handle those situations just as the police do IRL. I would like to see a day where cops can be looted for items they have on their person, but sadly that would result in far to many issues to become a thing imo. I think the thing we should look at is not Crim v PD equality cause lets face it, no gang in the US is equal to a Law Enforcement agency, but instead how do we give Crims more on the server, more opportunity to earn money, more opportunity to evade (Not just in a car) via fake license plates, fake ids, burner phones. Things like that. 

We should be focusing on how to take the "grind" out of crim RP and make it to where crims have more to do and can create more RP. As it sits, bank robberies are snatch and grabs using meta vehicles to get away leaving no real RP there (Not saying this is anyone's fault its the nature of the beast) or cook drugs to make money, where 90% of the time its another crim that enters into that situation not LEO's.

I get that getting caught sucks and there is a lot more on the line for a crim getting caught then a LEO being injured/killed. So we should be asking ourselves, What can be changed to help crims avoid being caught on top of how do I as a player prevent myself from being caught. 

[quizzlytv]

3 hours ago, SirQubed said:

I can understand why this suggestion was made. As someone who has mained a LEO for the past 4 years and dabbled in crim RP from time to time. I have to say LEO players for the most part don't do it for the money. Legal characters for the most part don't have anything to spend money on. Sure there are cars, house and the odd business but for the most part a majority of the transactions on the server are from crim to crim or crim to NPC (Orders) 

I personally play a LEO for the experience with other players and to hopefully make a positive impact on their experience on the server. As mentioned by others, LEO's are reactive to situations put out there by others. If we notice a group is shooting, ambushing or causing mayhem on a regular basis, then sure we react within IC protocol to handle those situations just as the police do IRL. I would like to see a day where cops can be looted for items they have on their person, but sadly that would result in far to many issues to become a thing imo. I think the thing we should look at is not Crim v PD equality cause lets face it, no gang in the US is equal to a Law Enforcement agency, but instead how do we give Crims more on the server, more opportunity to earn money, more opportunity to evade (Not just in a car) via fake license plates, fake ids, burner phones. Things like that. 

We should be focusing on how to take the "grind" out of crim RP and make it to where crims have more to do and can create more RP. As it sits, bank robberies are snatch and grabs using meta vehicles to get away leaving no real RP there (Not saying this is anyone's fault its the nature of the beast) or cook drugs to make money, where 90% of the time its another crim that enters into that situation not LEO's.

I get that getting caught sucks and there is a lot more on the line for a crim getting caught then a LEO being injured/killed. So we should be asking ourselves, What can be changed to help crims avoid being caught on top of how do I as a player prevent myself from being caught. 

Hmm so according to this . Below are some Suggestions and Thoughts.
-Then maybe boost max amount of money a store has from 20k to 30-40k.  Increase the bank robbery profit by 10% since its a big group crime activity.

-Atms from 2-2.5k to 4k or make it based on the mini game how much money it will give you .(example 20 circles=2k , circles=5k)

-Fake license plate + a fake license id name/surname + fake driver license all should be bought from (npc dealer for 10k maybe) *credits to SirQubed*

-Maybe boost house robberies profit/chopshop by 10 or 20%

-Increase drug selling prices by 10-20%.

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Basically increase rewards for small crimes that a solo or group of 4 can do.

It cost you so much to roleplay as criminal that the server pushes in the path to grind/farm in order to be able to RP again.

There is a difference between a hardcore roleplay server vs afk grinding/farming simulator for hours so you can Roleplay.

I also dont see the point why clothes are around 700 to 1000 and not around 200 what bad effect we can have from being able to buy more clothes with less cost for more RP opportunities . Same goes for food. I can see Hardcore RP i dont see why we have to grind to RP.

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I see how much cops are ''dying'' to RP and how much criminals are trying to avoiding any form of interactions with them because it costs them money and most importantly valuable time to make money . Realistically crims should avoid cops at all cost and the Server stuff has done amazing work to achieve it but at least if they got caught you dont have that feeling that you are going to "lose" 3 hours of your life.

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Edited January 5 by quizzlytv

[Lutherian90]

As someone that's played mostly legal factions (DOC and now some PD) and only a small time crim character(I still have a lot of time on this character, just no faction) since I've been on the server, I definitely don't want to see the burden of any balancing to fall onto any of the players themselves. Out of the suggestions for LEOs I only really like the suggestion about a departmental budget, but the implementation of such a thing would likely take a huge amount of time to get into the server and balanced properly. And I'd really only like to see it for "special equipment", such as certain heavies, vehicles, etc. The departments would always have access to a lot of basic equipment as it would be necessary to function. 

 

I do think the "best" move here would be to do as others have said here, decrease the grind for criminal characters. As it stands, none of the small time crim stuff feels worth it to do. I'm coasting on the money I have saved up right now and the nerf to the cost of chopped parts and stuff came at a time where I just passed off a huge amount of stuff to an organization to facilitate better gun prices for myself and my small group that I play crim with. I went from a 200k transaction to around probably 120k or so. I'm glad they've made the recent changes to prison times, I think that was a good move in the right direction, then there was the atm buff, which was nice, but around christmas they changed the prices of all the other stuff, which put ATMs back to just as bad as they were on top of nerfing everything else. Alleviating the loss seems like a good solution instead of spreading it to both sides and getting more people salty about losing stuff. This is a game and we're supposed to be playing it for fun.

[Starlet_bruh]

how about "personal" cruisers? its been done in a lot of other servers, prevents people just going back to mission row and instantly getting a new cruiser after a crash, and makes the officers stay on top of repairs to avoid stalling or breaking the car while also giving more RP opportunity to existing garages or maybe even a specialised emergency vehicle garage with new job oppurtunities. Also allows personalisation like wheels and paint colour of unmarked cruisers. It could work just like any other personal vehicle however it must be stored at a station and doesnt take up a vehicle slot.

Edited January 8 by Starlet_bruh

[Jett_J]

Unless I get a bonus for writing tickets and making an arrest then -1

Making cops lootable makes cop hunting the meta

-1