Changes to AP for both crims and LEO

[a1ex]

This may have something that has been said before but I just wanted to comment on my view of this from being on both the crim and LEO side of this. I have a few points to make:

1) Firstly I believe that anything above 100ap is unrealistic and should be removed from LEO factions but I know that this idea will just be hated on by the METRO and SED players than constantly run this. Other than a bomb disposal suit nothing should be this powerful so my idea was to reduce regular patrol cops to 50ap and have DB, SIB, SED, and METRO have access to 100ap, I think 150-200 was a necessity a while back when gangs had 40+ members and cops were heavily outnumbered but these days it seems like overkill.

2) My next point is about reducing the price of AP for import, maybe by 5k not that it's too expensive but having it more easily accessible would create better situations. So we have 100ap at 15k, 75ap at 10k, and 50ap at 5k since its not really very useful anyways especially when going up against LEO.

3) Lastly if it isn't agreed that the first point is something that may help the community access to 150ap and 200ap should extend across to crim as well as LEO, it makes no sense why it isn't already accessible.

4) Add some sort of sluggishness effect when using higher AP armour as it makes no sense that you can still move freely and speedily with that much protection on that realistically weigh a lot

Edited December 9, 2023 by a1ex

[Marshmeloh]

+1

Anything over 100AP these days is honestly excessive. As the original poster stated, there was a time where I could see 150AP and 200AP being required, when cops were loot able and being killed regularly. However, crims these days aren't actively looking for fights with LEO's and for the majority of LEO-Crim fights crims don't take AP or Heavies, as it's usually a last resort.

I think at very least, anything above 100AP should be reserved for specific scenarios where LEO's know ahead of time that it's an incredibly dangerous situation. And anything above 100AP should be RPed accordingly. As realistically 150AP and especially 200AP would be incredibly heavy military level plating, driving around with it and then hopping out and rolling into combat is a little silly.

Alternatively, I'd love headshots to mean something. As 1 shot headshots would force LEO's to think tactically and be much more considerate when approaching shootouts. But I know 1 shot headshots will never be a thing. But from my experience, it seems dumb when I someone can take multiple shots to their head and continue fighting when they seemingly have no helmets or head protection.

At very least, I would like to see regular patrol units using 50AP or less, and anything over 100AP should be reserved for very specific SED and SWAT situations.

If we was to look at it from a realistic standpoint. In real life there are Kevlar ranges from Level 2 to Level 4. Level 2 I would say is 50AP as Level2 stops 9mm. Level 3A is what SWAT typically uses in real life and stops .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and 12 Gauge so I would say Level 3A Kevlar is equal to 100AP. Level 3 and Level 3+ is rated to stop 7.62 and is almost never used by SWAT in real life due to the weight and clunkiness. And Level IV armor which is rated to stop 30-06 AP and . 338 Lapua Magnum is what I would say is equal to 200AP. Level IV armor is exclusively used by military personnel and isn't always used. As from experience I can tell you it weighs a ton and ain't no-one actively running around and hopping in and out of cars wearing it.

So In conclusion, I believe 50AP is appropriate for regular patrol, 100AP is appropriate for the majority of SWAT/SED situations. 150/200AP should be reserved for Military situations.

[San Chh]

Lower the shipment power requires to import APs.

[Harveyyy]

It would be nice to give crims 150AP and 200AP. The government can import such equipment and so the Cartel. Everything comes with a price anyways..

[DontSniffSugar]

+1

[Lutherian90]

+1 Coming from a mostly legal faction player (DOC and PD) who only does minor crimes on my crim. The last gunfight I got into with an LEO I shot him 14 times with an AK (confirmed by him in a PM after when we were laughing about the interaction) and he didn't go down. This was him responding to a store robbery. Seems kind of silly to be able to take that many shots in standard patrol equipment. I take my Ls regularly being a small time crim, so I never have any expectations of winning a shootout with LEOs, but the one time I go relatively prepared, have a good vantage point and get them by surprise, it is a bit disappointing to not even down someone. Granted had there not been two other guys to take up some of the other bullets I likely would have, but still. 1 guy shouldn't take 14 bullets from an AR unless he's setup to do a raid or respond to something like a terrorist threat imo.

[Jett_J]

-1 I like how it is now

[Victor Einhart]

12 hours ago, a1ex said:

Other than a bomb disposal suit nothing should be this powerful

Why not?

[Undyingheart112]

Overall this is a +1 however there's a few things id like to touch on.
1. AP prices right now in my opinion are very good, I feel anything less and everyone would be running around with 100aps 24/7 which isn't really ideal in my opinion. they have also been considerably reduced in price from what they were before the gun update.

2. I very much agree that LEO Armor shouldn't be 200ap, its isn't actually used as much as people would think, most of the time not being more the 150ap for SWAT and 100ap for you're standard police officer. I think even a slight decrease to 75ap for the Standard Kevlar and 100-150 for SWAT Kevlar's. At the end of the day AP isn't all that and with the gun update changing the .50 damage you can still kill anyone with a 100ap with 8 shots from a .50.

3. Crims would definitely benefit from having 150-200 aps being a special import via the cartel such as for an example 40k for 200ap being double the price as a 100ap. This would also be a benefit as the pool of special import weapons has shrunk due to the gun update making certain weapons importable.

4. this is gonna be my only negative I feel although a "sluggish" movement speed from heavy armors would be realistic, It would impact the usefulness of the AP if you cant even try and move out of the way of bullets. I think overall gameplay should be the focus over realism   

[Fupii]

can we just get refillable ap pls

[a1ex]

9 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

Why not?

What kind of armour do you think that would be realistically comparable to? Other than a bombsuit. And would swat operators actually use this kind of armour?

As swat yourself do you feel that there is any need for 200ap anymore? If you lowered it then you could have more of a focus on tactics rather than just running in like juggernauts

Edited December 10, 2023 by a1ex

[GR_Seb]

6 hours ago, a1ex said:

As swat yourself do you feel that there is any need for 200ap anymore? If you lowered it then you could have more of a focus on tactics rather than just running in like juggernauts

Interesting. Do you have any scene in mind where you saw SWAT with the 200 ap armor? Because from 2019, I used it three times.

[Victor Einhart]

6 hours ago, a1ex said:

What kind of armour do you think that would be realistically comparable to? Other than a bombsuit. And would swat operators actually use this kind of armour?

As swat yourself do you feel that there is any need for 200ap anymore? If you lowered it then you could have more of a focus on tactics rather than just running in like juggernauts

I'm interested in why you want police officers to be easier to kill. I'm not talking about anything right now, I'm asking.

[a1ex]

1 hour ago, GR_Seb said:

Interesting. Do you have any scene in mind where you saw SWAT with the 200 ap armor? Because from 2019, I used it three times.

I'm just saying in general the level of AP should be lowered this isn't based off of any specific experience with SWAT.

 

1 hour ago, Victor Einhart said:

I'm interested in why you want police officers to be easier to kill. I'm not talking about anything right now, I'm asking.

I'm saying that this level of AP was probably necessary back in the day but I don't see any need for it these days, it just means cops act like juggernauts rather than focusing on tactics from personal past experience and stories I've heard from others. I've been in SD myself and 100ap constant was just completely unnecessary and only required in the biggest shootouts we had.

Edited December 10, 2023 by a1ex

[Victor Einhart]

52 minutes ago, a1ex said:

cops act like juggernauts rather than focusing on tactics

Really? Can you give me some examples?

[a1ex]

6 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

Really? Can you give me some examples?

I mean at the end of the day you'll have a different experience to me, but every in my experience it most commonly occurs when a bank is hit or a shootout happens between LEO and crims cops decide to run in with not a care in the world and try to take fights even when they are heavily outnumbered rather than waiting for backup partially due to poor judgement from the officer partially due to the fact that they have the advantage of not having to worry about being shot at the same way crims do.  I know that tactics are involved for a lot of pre-planned situations but when they randomly appear through roleplay this isn't taken into consideration and it's just who has the better gun and who can tank more shots.

Edit: remembered an example from today which partially proves my point, during a mandem/shadows bank today we were about 20 strong mainly armed with .50s in case of PD response. A swat officer who is riding solo and about 2 minutes ahead of any other backup parked up outside the bank completely in the open and hopped out to which he was then immediately killed by us. This sort of moves away from my main point but it is an answer to your original question. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by a1ex

[Victor Einhart]

I'm very sorry to hear that, because that's the exact opposite of what those officers are trained to do.

[a1ex]

I mean it's an quite a common occurrence but that's another discussion

[HobGoblin]

10 hours ago, a1ex said:

A swat officer who is riding solo and about 2 minutes ahead of any other backup parked up outside the bank completely in the open and hopped out to which he was then immediately killed by us. 

Guess it can't be that OP if you killed him.

 

Most cops have 50ap on, if you can see the armor its 100ap. Some armours are 75ap aswell. SWAT has 150ap. Noone uses 200ap as much as people like to say they do, IF its used its for a reason and even then only a few will have it.

 

If people have a plan and numbers they are able to kill cops. Ask Royals and CSB when they have shot cops in the past.

[a1ex]

21 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

Guess it can't be that OP if you killed him.

That was a response to his question rather than a situation relating to the original statement.

22 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

If people have a plan and numbers they are able to kill cops. Ask Royals and CSB when they have shot cops in the past.

I understand that but I'm saying generally there isn't a need for anything over 100AP from the LEO side, I'm not even saying it should be a fair fight between crims and cops because it shouldn't be all I'm saying is that it's unnecessary these days to actually need that high levels of AP especially with the gang cap being lowered.

[Harveyyy]

59 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

If people have a plan and numbers they are able to kill cops. Ask Royals and CSB when they have shot cops in the past.

Being an ex-Royal and in CSB right now, I can confirm I did shoot cops after analyzing the situation and determining that the reward is higher than the risk - before I shoot cops, i must ensure that 1) It's worth it. 2) I must have good numbers and we outnumber the cops heavily; I'd say ratio of 1:4. (That's the only way to win the fight)

Also, don't shoot cops lmao bad idea bad idea, the consequences are severe even though you think it's over after killing everyone, it's not LMAO.

[Apex]

15 minutes ago, Harveyyy said:

outnumber the cops heavily; I'd say ratio of 1:4. (That's the only way to win the fight)

 

This isn't exactly true though. 

When royals fought PD/SD at the docs, we had almost equal numbers, if not being outnumbered and we survived around 3 waves due to LEOs just being confused about where they were getting shot from (SWAT and their 150 AP included). It all goes back to having a good plan because all their numbers didn't survive 3 people on each roof. As a crim, you have the privilege of deciding where to fight and when to fight and those 2 factors, besides having people who know how to shoot are almost enough to guarantee you win. 

[Oli]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:28 PM, a1ex said:

This may have something that has been said before but I just wanted to comment on my view of this from being on both the crim and LEO side of this. I have a few points to make:

1) Firstly I believe that anything above 100ap is unrealistic and should be removed from LEO factions but I know that this idea will just be hated on by the METRO and SED players than constantly run this. Other than a bomb disposal suit nothing should be this powerful so my idea was to reduce regular patrol cops to 50ap and have DB, SIB, SED, and METRO have access to 100ap, I think 150-200 was a necessity a while back when gangs had 40+ members and cops were heavily outnumbered but these days it seems like overkill.

+1
 

On 12/9/2023 at 3:28 PM, a1ex said:

2) My next point is about reducing the price of AP for import, maybe by 5k not that it's too expensive but having it more easily accessible would create better situations. So we have 100ap at 15k, 75ap at 10k, and 50ap at 5k since its not really very useful anyways especially when going up against LEO.

3) Lastly if it isn't agreed that the first point is something that may help the community access to 150ap and 200ap should extend across to crim as well as LEO, it makes no sense why it isn't already accessible.

4) Add some sort of sluggishness effect when using higher AP armour as it makes no sense that you can still move freely and speedily with that much protection on that realistically weigh a lot

-1.

2) Prices are already okay imo
3) Introducing 150 and 200 AP to crim RP will kill all crims who are low on money as they're fighting a criminal who has triple their HP, as if double wasnt enough.
I'd understand using it when going against LEO, but its gonna be used everywhere, against other criminals, now making the 200 AP problem a general problem and something unavoidable.

[a1ex]

Yeah my first point was the main one and if it wasn't agreed that that was a helpful fix it was some other options that might help. 

[Oli]

Two wrongs dont make a right.

Creating another problem doesnt solve the problem in hand