AtlasOLimbo Posted June 24, 2023 Author Report Posted June 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, Harveyyy said: So if an LGBTQ person wants to talk about their beliefs and promote them everywhere, then it's freedom of speech (first amendment right in USA), but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or just a Straight person wants to talk about their beliefs then it's bigoted and shoving their religion/beliefs down people's throats? If an LGBTQ person wants to protest because that seems to be the norm, then that's just "democracy in action", but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or a Straight person wants to voice their opinion that LGBTQ people are heavily demanding through these protests, online posts etc. then it's just straight up homophobia? This is not a double standard, this is just illogical. It becomes irritating when people start to believe they're being forced to accept this, and if they don't, they get labeled as homophobic. LGBTQ people have been celebrating this for many many years and I had no issues with it until it became forceful - the need for acknowledgment, the need for force celebration, the need for force validation, and that's when you lost people. Look, it's OKAY to be proud of your sexuality, but why do I have to be proud of YOUR sexuality? I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're LGBTQ, I don't care if you want to call yourself a Zebra, I don't care if you want to stand on your head, and I could not care less what anybody wants to do in their own private life with their own private time, but I do care when you decide to use the "homophobic card" against people simply for disagreeing with you or for having different beliefs, let alone I have more important things to worry about. If people want to support you, then I'm happy for you, but if they don't, then LEAVE them out of it! Stop demanding attention from everyone and expect everyone to be on board, because that will not happen. Everybody should have the prerogative to decide what they want to support or not, you cannot sit there and force this on everyone. If you want people to at least show you respect, then you have to respect their beliefs, it's a two-way street! However, if someone goes out there and attacks LGBTQ people and uses slurs etc, then you have the right to call them homophobic, and that's the only time you have the right to call someone that word. Lastly, If you think I'm homophobic/transphobic/racist, whatever, then shame on you! This response is a complete strawman and I genuinely do not know who it's arguing against in this thread.
Harveyyy Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, AtlasOLimbo said: This response is a complete strawman and I genuinely do not know who it's arguing against in this thread. It's against the people that uses the homophobic card against everyone. People that are insecure and demands attention from everyone. 4
flow Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 49 minutes ago, Harveyyy said: So if an LGBTQ person wants to talk about their beliefs and promote them everywhere, then it's freedom of speech (first amendment right in USA), but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or just a Straight person wants to talk about their beliefs then it's bigoted and shoving their religion/beliefs down people's throats? If an LGBTQ person wants to protest because that seems to be the norm, then that's just "democracy in action", but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or a Straight person wants to voice their opinion that LGBTQ people are heavily demanding through these protests, online posts etc. then it's just straight up homophobia? This is not a double standard, this is just illogical. It becomes irritating when people start to believe they're being forced to accept this, and if they don't, they get labeled as homophobic. LGBTQ people have been celebrating this for many many years and I had no issues with it until it became forceful - the need for acknowledgment, the need for force celebration, the need for force validation, and that's when you lost people. Look, it's OKAY to be proud of your sexuality, but why do I have to be proud of YOUR sexuality? I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're LGBTQ, I don't care if you want to call yourself a Zebra, I don't care if you want to stand on your head, and I could not care less what anybody wants to do in their own private life with their own private time, but I do care when you decide to use the "homophobic card" against people simply for disagreeing with you or for having different beliefs, let alone I have more important things to worry about. If people want to support you, then I'm happy for you, but if they don't, then LEAVE them out of it! Stop demanding attention from everyone and expect everyone to be on board, because that will not happen. Everybody should have the prerogative to decide what they want to support or not, you cannot sit there and force this on everyone. If you want people to at least show you respect, then you have to respect their beliefs, it's a two-way street! However, if someone goes out there and attacks LGBTQ people and uses slurs etc, then you have the right to call them homophobic, and that's the only time you have the right to call someone that word. Lastly, If you think I'm homophobic/transphobic/racist, whatever, then shame on you! For someone who doesn't care what people do or identify as, you are using a lot of words to type out a reply detailing how you do care lmao... Anyone who thinks anything is being shoved down their throat is an idiot in their own right, how easy would it have been to to not reply and move on and actually not care? Instead, you gotta shove your opinion down people's throat who have not asked for it at all, ironic. What are they shoving down your throat exactly? That they would like to be left in peace to love whoever they do, marry, adopt children, enjoy the same priviliges as straight couples? To not be ostracized and shunted for being different? Is that what you can't possibly bear, someone who is different to you wanting to live the same life with the same level of security and freedom? Man, that is fucking sad ngl. You are very upset for whatever reason and think freedom of speech grants you the freedom to attack people, veiling it as an "opinion" while it's nothing more than clever worded hate speech. 1
Osborn Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 Hey @AtlasOLimbo Quote "I don't know if it was much more secretive before or these command members finally decided that enough was enough." In regards to this, we've never allowed it, all leaders have been pretty good at enforcing it. It just hasn't been an issue before. Speaking for SD, we've all co-existed without any issues, all these years. It's only this year that it came up as an issue. I've got a wide variety of people in both Command and High Command in regards to religion, sexuality, etc, and no one has been shunned for expressing themselves, or been told that they are shoving something down anyone's throat, and they have always been tolerant. We're all just tolerant and respectful of each other's presence and generally just focus on the same thing, enjoying the game and the RP that we do. But we will continue to make sure that we maintain this stance for the sake of our community! 1
ComradeCorbyn Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 42 minutes ago, Harveyyy said: So if an LGBTQ person wants to talk about their beliefs and promote them everywhere, then it's freedom of speech (first amendment right in USA), but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or just a Straight person wants to talk about their beliefs then it's bigoted and shoving their religion/beliefs down people's throats? If an LGBTQ person wants to protest because that seems to be the norm, then that's just "democracy in action", but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or a Straight person wants to voice their opinion that LGBTQ people are heavily demanding through these protests, online posts etc. then it's just straight up homophobia? This is not a double standard, this is just illogical. It becomes irritating when people start to believe they're being forced to accept this, and if they don't, they get labeled as homophobic. LGBTQ people have been celebrating this for many many years and I had no issues with it until it became forceful - the need for acknowledgment, the need for force celebration, the need for force validation, and that's when you lost people. Look, it's OKAY to be proud of your sexuality, but why do I have to be proud of YOUR sexuality? I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're LGBTQ, I don't care if you want to call yourself a Zebra, I don't care if you want to stand on your head, and I could not care less what anybody wants to do in their own private life with their own private time, but I do care when you decide to use the "homophobic card" against people simply for disagreeing with you or for having different beliefs, let alone I have more important things to worry about. If people want to support you, then I'm happy for you, but if they don't, then LEAVE them out of it! Stop demanding attention from everyone and expect everyone to be on board, because that will not happen. Everybody should have the prerogative to decide what they want to support or not, you cannot sit there and force this on everyone. If you want people to at least show you respect, then you have to respect their beliefs, it's a two-way street! However, if someone goes out there and attacks LGBTQ people and uses slurs etc, then you have the right to call them homophobic, and that's the only time you have the right to call someone that word. Lastly, If you think I'm homophobic/transphobic/racist, whatever, then shame on you! To be honest, I think your comments are coming from a place of extreme anti-woke sentiment instead of actual validity. You should know as well as anyone as a former member of the faction that we have plenty of people just like you who don't mind gay people and are tolerant of them, but are slightly off put by the excess of pride or the "forceful" nature of some pride demonstrations. Many of our faction members from Eastern Europe, from Eastern Asia, from Africa all share this sentiment, and it would be ridiculous if we were to wage war on members who simply aren't as used to western, progressive sentiments like this. You should know that the only players being targeted are those who are truly hateful, not just random members of the faction or applicants who have expressed slight discomfort with the progressive nature of our expression. You're really expressing a non-problem here. People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes, people who hold these views actively in our faction are not being suppressed, you're just wrong. Your sentiments are coming more from a reactionary view of our policy rather than any actual "discrimination" or labeling of people with your viewpoint. If you can give me a point where someone from our faction called one of the many people with your viewpoints homophobic for your views, I'd be happy to hear it, but you're really just making something bigger out of a non-issue. 1 2 1
RedHot Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 @Harveyyy have you not got some new players to spectate? Cant do that when you are mindlessly slapping your keyboard here 1 7
Harveyyy Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 @RedHot I banned 12 ban evaders last week. They still haven't decided to ban evade again! 1
Helix1015 Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 50 minutes ago, ComradeCorbyn said: To be honest, I think your comments are coming from a place of extreme anti-woke sentiment instead of actual validity. You should know as well as anyone as a former member of the faction that we have plenty of people just like you who don't mind gay people and are tolerant of them, but are slightly off put by the excess of pride or the "forceful" nature of some pride demonstrations. Many of our faction members from Eastern Europe, from Eastern Asia, from Africa all share this sentiment, and it would be ridiculous if we were to wage war on members who simply aren't as used to western, progressive sentiments like this. You should know that the only players being targeted are those who are truly hateful, not just random members of the faction or applicants who have expressed slight discomfort with the progressive nature of our expression. You're really expressing a non-problem here. People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes, people who hold these views actively in our faction are not being suppressed, you're just wrong. Your sentiments are coming more from a reactionary view of our policy rather than any actual "discrimination" or labeling of people with your viewpoint. If you can give me a point where someone from our faction called one of the many people with your viewpoints homophobic for your views, I'd be happy to hear it, but you're really just making something bigger out of a non-issue. Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem. I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false. "People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was. "You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff. 1 1 1
Cyrus Raven Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 I really hope no one got OOC'ly discharged for an emoji reaction... 1
Osborn Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said: I really hope no one got OOC'ly discharged for an emoji reaction... We absolutely discharged a member for reacting poorly to a long-standing member's coming out post, AFTER making it clear that such behavior wasn't tolerated. This member has also shared concerning opinions (concerning to me) with another member about how they feel, prior to reacting in such a way. It is absolutely not something that I am willing to host in my faction, as for other factions, that's entirely up to their leaders. This is however not on topic with the original topic creator's intention. If the member we discharged wants to complain, they can go through Legal FM! 3
ComradeCorbyn Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, Helix1015 said: Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem. I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false. "People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was. "You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff. this u? Allow me to reiterate; We only remove or deny TRULY hateful players from the faction. 3
Bala Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, Helix1015 said: Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem. I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false. "People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was. "You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff. So, you are complaining that you are being treated differently and being misrepresented? Well, how the fuck you think trans people feel or gay people or black people or any other kind of minority feels? I think you actually lying about what you've said pisses me off more than what you've actually said. Simple fact is, people of the LGBTQ+ communities need pride because they've spent so much of their lives being made to feel ashamed of who they are and who they choose to love. It's an expression of pride in themselves and people who are like them. It's not about their lifestyle being superior to yours, it's about them being able to openly be who they are without recrimination. A right and privilege that you get to have every day of your life. In PD, I'm usually the one sending out the messages about pride or at least I have the past two years but I'd like to point out that I did the same for Eid/Ramadan and Hannukah, because I support all the different types of people within PD. Pride is just the LGBTQ+ communities turn to celebrate and I'm absolutely here for it. Come Ramadan time, you best believe I'm hitting the habibis with a Ramadan Kareem as well. 4
flow Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 23 minutes ago, Helix1015 said: Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem. I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false. "People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was. "You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff. https://imgur.com/0MGgCwA This you? I don't know how us saying we only removed HATEFUL people could be misinterpreted? You need a reality check my dude,
Helix1015 Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, ComradeCorbyn said: this u? Allow me to reiterate; We only remove or deny TRULY hateful players from the faction. Not denying I said that. That was when I didn't have time to explain what I mean by that. Don't care if you believe me, but after talking to a friend from the lgbtq community, what I mean to say (and should have back then) was I dont have an issue with trans people. I have an issue with gender dysphoria. GD is the mental illness aspect of the trans community - not necessarily themselves.
AtlasOLimbo Posted June 24, 2023 Author Report Posted June 24, 2023 25 minutes ago, Helix1015 said: Actually, as someone who completely understands every point Harvey told and agrees with it, he is expressing a problem. I dont want to get into an argument regarding values on either end. But what I will say here is that your second paragraph is completely false. "People who hold views like you are not being walked around being called homophobes" .... YES, we are. I was. "You should know that the only players that are being targeted are the truly hateful" ... man, describe to me how I was hateful. I resigned from LSSD and you guys decided to turn it into a dishonorable discharge for reacting to posts with a rolling eyes emoji. Nowhere near the same as ledger's puke emoji - that was hateful. I just didn't want to hear pride announcements and I have the same exact viewpoints as Harvey does. And now I'm being misrepresented in the community and unable to join lspd or sadoc because yall claim that I see trans as a mental illness when that's untrue? I'm not going to get into anything here. This is a game by the end of the day it's getting too political with pride stuff. It's extremely disheartening that you're using my thread as a soapbox to lie and try and garner some kind of support for the state you've planted yourself firmly in by being a bigot. Maybe if you actually apologized and tried to do better factions would consider bringing you on. Instead, you've decided to double down and openly lie about what you said to the point where members of these factions feel the need to call you out openly.
Kazjii Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 Thank you for showing your appreciation! SD is doing their best to maintain high levels of RP while bringing entertaining interactions the people we play with! I hope to RP with you within the server!
AtlasOLimbo Posted June 24, 2023 Author Report Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Kazjii said: Thank you for showing your appreciation! SD is doing their best to maintain high levels of RP while bringing entertaining interactions the people we play with! I hope to RP with you within the server! We very likely have roleplayed at one point or another. I'm sure I'll see you again real soon! 1
Helix1015 Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, AtlasOLimbo said: It's extremely disheartening that you're using my thread as a soapbox to lie and try and garner some kind of support for the state you've planted yourself firmly in by being a bigot. Maybe if you actually apologized and tried to do better factions would consider bringing you on. Instead, you've decided to double down and openly lie about what you said to the point where members of these factions feel the need to call you out openly. Didn't mean to. I was sent Harvey's post, and after people started replying to him I felt the need to share a little bit regarding what happened to me. Im no longer posting any replies to this forum as this isn't what was intended. Call me what you want. Claim I'm somebody I'm not. Don't give a fuck. If you have an issue with me, my dm on discord is open if you want to argue there.
sNo0BbZz Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 I dont know about you guys... But i appreciate PD and SD. ( Please stop gang suppressing us, I will roll around in tears for many days. I will cry until my eyes are as dry as the land I was born in. My eyes will be so dry that I will start looking for the atomic remnant's of moisture left in the Egyptian desert.) 1
Osborn Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, sNo0BbZz said: I dont know about you guys... But i appreciate PD and SD. ( Please stop gang suppressing us, I will roll around in tears for many days. I will cry until my eyes are as dry as the land I was born in. My eyes will be so dry that I will start looking for the atomic remnant's of moisture left in the Egyptian desert.) Noted, will send a msg to GND
sNo0BbZz Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Osborn said: Noted, will send a msg to GND God bless sheriff Kirk.
Sigma Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 7 hours ago, Bala said: Because people like you need to be educated, usually more than once @Payn - usually slowly and without too many big words. Happy Pride dawg, I’m gunna wave a flag for you. Please don’t man. I am educated very much so, maybe just not the same as yourself which is fine! 1 1
Sigma Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Harveyyy said: So if an LGBTQ person wants to talk about their beliefs and promote them everywhere, then it's freedom of speech (first amendment right in USA), but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or just a Straight person wants to talk about their beliefs then it's bigoted and shoving their religion/beliefs down people's throats? If an LGBTQ person wants to protest because that seems to be the norm, then that's just "democracy in action", but if a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or a Straight person wants to voice their opinion that LGBTQ people are heavily demanding through these protests, online posts etc. then it's just straight up homophobia? This is not a double standard, this is just illogical. It becomes irritating when people start to believe they're being forced to accept this, and if they don't, they get labeled as homophobic. LGBTQ people have been celebrating this for many many years and I had no issues with it until it became forceful - the need for acknowledgment, the need for force celebration, the need for force validation, and that's when you lost people. Look, it's OKAY to be proud of your sexuality, but why do I have to be proud of YOUR sexuality? I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're LGBTQ, I don't care if you want to call yourself a Zebra, I don't care if you want to stand on your head, and I could not care less what anybody wants to do in their own private life with their own private time, but I do care when you decide to use the "homophobic card" against people simply for disagreeing with you or for having different beliefs, let alone I have more important things to worry about. If people want to support you, then I'm happy for you, but if they don't, then LEAVE them out of it! Stop demanding attention from everyone and expect everyone to be on board, because that will not happen. Everybody should have the prerogative to decide what they want to support or not, you cannot sit there and force this on everyone. If you want people to at least show you respect, then you have to respect their beliefs, it's a two-way street! However, if someone goes out there and attacks LGBTQ people and uses slurs etc, then you have the right to call them homophobic, and that's the only time you have the right to call someone that word. Lastly, If you think I'm homophobic/transphobic/racist, whatever, then shame on you! You sir are a man of knowledge, thank you for actually speaking the truth and understanding that it cannot be a one sided thing. 1 1
