RP Involving Police

[biz_bionicz]

This shall be interesting. Theres a couple things that need to be covered. Reminder this server wants to keep things realistic so lets do that. 

THE BIGGEST ONE

1) If your friend is being arrested in a NCZ you should be able to help. Its a NCZ for petty things of course, but the idea of a NCZ is that it is a guarded area. Makes sense for things like stealing cars etc. But attacking a cop and saving a friend, it does not. Going into it there is already a cop or cops there, arresting your friend. You are willingly attacking an officer so therefore the idea its guarded is out the window because your attacking the person guarding it. This also adds more rp to the server. If you are being arrested in a NCZ there is nothing you can do. You cant attack the cop all you can do is run.. That means all the cop does is say stop and if you try to run he tazes you. No reason to not be able to save a friend in a NCZ, it removes the fun of being a criminal on the run. 

 

2) COPS TAKING YOUR STUFF ON ARREST OR WHEN YOURE DOWN. Ive had plenty of cops take my bag, which is expensive, and food when being arrested. What should happen is it is taken and goes into prison and when you are released you can get it back. If that is not possible, you should be able to keep in on you because it cant do anything in prison. 

[verydoge12]

I agree, the whole NCZ thing makes you helpless and I think it should be changed, but then again maybe it should be different at the MD,PD and the Bank

also In the past I was very annoyed of the police literally robbing my vehicles after arrest taking my burgers etc but I got used to it

+1

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by verydoge12

[TheCanadian]

1 hour ago, biz_bionicz said:

This also adds more rp to the server.

If we're being completely honest here... No it won't, you can RP plenty while cops are arresting your friend now, ask them whats going on, why hes getting arrested, RP his lawyer if they wana play along, etc.etc. All adding this would do is add a KOS reason inside NCZ. if this gets implemented (which jesus christ i hope it doesnt) do you honestly think people are going to roll up next to their friend getting arrested and do proper rp with the cops as you claim? No. The RP that will go down is "oh shit. X is getting arrested for [ insert felonies here] let's go help him out guys!" then for the following 10 minutes, its going to be a shootout between the PD and the criminals trying to break their friend free (while civis are caught in the way). It will not add any form of RP, just another reason and location to KOS.

Edit: even though you cannot currently do anything inside ncz, you can do something outside that will influence your friend getting arrested. (i.e kidnapping a cop, and demanding your friend to be let go in exchange for his life).

 

1 hour ago, biz_bionicz said:

2) COPS TAKING YOUR STUFF ON ARREST OR WHEN YOURE DOWN. Ive had plenty of cops take my bag, which is expensive, and food when being arrested. What should happen is it is taken and goes into prison and when you are released you can get it back. If that is not possible, you should be able to keep in on you because it cant do anything in prison. 

This however, +1. Food,bags,radios,, bobby pins, etc. are fucking expensive when you add it all up. I'm all for cops being able to seize the weapons used during the crime, including those in the vehicles of the suspects. However, i do not think they should be able to be basically scavengers. I am unsure of what they do with the seized items ( do they have a place to destroy it? do they use it themselves?) It would be even worse if they use it themselves (tipping the scales further in their favor in terms of economy). Either way though, i do not think that matters, when you get sent to prison, everything that you have on you is collected and stored for when you leave. Im unsure why that is in this server, if anyone has a proper answer i would love to hear it because i cannot fathom why it is the way it currently is.

Edited January 19, 2019 by TheCanadian

[Denni]

-1 to both. 1, no, just no. There are far more criminals at the moment. 2, again, no, it's part of the "don't to the crime if you can't do the time..."; or in this case, if you can't lose your stuff.

[biz_bionicz]

3 hours ago, Denni said:

-1 to both. 1, no, just no. There are far more criminals at the moment. 2, again, no, it's part of the "don't to the crime if you can't do the time..."; or in this case, if you can't lose your stuff.

The problem is they take things that have nothing to do with the crime. All that stuff adds up, as stated and there is no reason to lose it when it is not a crime to have. On a side note youre probably a cop and take peoples things. 

[Xoza]

1. Besides it being a heavily guarded area, it does provide a safe place for both sides, criminal and government alike. Go after them after they've left the NCZ.

2. Police are obligated to take any 'evidence' that may relate to the crime or cause further incidents or criminal intent.

I did hear a cop today handing out food after searching someone, which is wrong on various levels. Didn't find out who that was, but will pursue next time. As long as we don't have criminals roleplaying next time that they hide things in food or clothing I'll gladly let you keep that burger, maybe that cool looking jacket. After you're out of my hands though DOC could just as easily confiscate it.

Maybe the suggestion here should be some kind of locker to store criminals items while they serve their time.

[DeanThompson]

8 hours ago, biz_bionicz said:

This shall be interesting. Theres a couple things that need to be covered. Reminder this server wants to keep things realistic so lets do that. 

THE BIGGEST ONE

1) If your friend is being arrested in a NCZ you should be able to help. Its a NCZ for petty things of course, but the idea of a NCZ is that it is a guarded area. Makes sense for things like stealing cars etc. But attacking a cop and saving a friend, it does not. Going into it there is already a cop or cops there, arresting your friend. You are willingly attacking an officer so therefore the idea its guarded is out the window because your attacking the person guarding it. This also adds more rp to the server. If you are being arrested in a NCZ there is nothing you can do. You cant attack the cop all you can do is run.. That means all the cop does is say stop and if you try to run he tazes you. No reason to not be able to save a friend in a NCZ, it removes the fun of being a criminal on the run. 

 

2) COPS TAKING YOUR STUFF ON ARREST OR WHEN YOURE DOWN. Ive had plenty of cops take my bag, which is expensive, and food when being arrested. What should happen is it is taken and goes into prison and when you are released you can get it back. If that is not possible, you should be able to keep in on you because it cant do anything in prison. 

On the first 1 about being able to "help your friends" in a NCZ, a massive no from me. Rationale is this: We don't want those NCZ areas turning into battlegrounds i.e. shooting at cops and cops having to shoot back etc. The idea behind them is that it is a safe place away from that shit. You can run, you can be sneaky and get into a vehicle, no problem with that at all but "helping" your friends usually means shooting at the cops.

On the 2nd one, I agree. Confiscating your bag and food isn't on, but that said there really is no storage for personal property and you shouldn't be able to take personal property into prison.

Perhaps the script could be amended to have a property storage locker at the prison and PD so that property can be stored with a note attached.

[biz_bionicz]

2 hours ago, Xoza said:

1. Besides it being a heavily guarded area, it does provide a safe place for both sides, criminal and government alike. Go after them after they've left the NCZ.

2. Police are obligated to take any 'evidence' that may relate to the crime or cause further incidents or criminal intent.

I did hear a cop today handing out food after searching someone, which is wrong on various levels. Didn't find out who that was, but will pursue next time. As long as we don't have criminals roleplaying next time that they hide things in food or clothing I'll gladly let you keep that burger, maybe that cool looking jacket. After you're out of my hands though DOC could just as easily confiscate it.

Maybe the suggestion here should be some kind of locker to store criminals items while they serve their time.

Thats what im talking about, I understand "evidence". but ive had bags on me where i get arrested and the cop takes it and then just laughs and OOC says like, thanks for the bag, or another one was, I love getting free things. I dont know how to solve it like I said when you go in prison, there should be some sort of script to get your stuff back if it is not illegal and not evidence. (of course if that is possible).

 

 

[alexalex303]

big -1 on the NCZ allowing crime. It will not create any quality roleplay. Imagine a gang member being arrested at the bank, when it's peak time, about 30 civilians at bank, 10 cops, and a shootout starts in the middle of that. It would be utter chaos.

+1 on something being scripted, that would allow police to confiscate legal items, but that the person would be able to pick them up later from prison / police precinct. in any case, people should not be allowed in prison with them.

[TheCanadian]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:13 AM, Xoza said:

2. Police are obligated to take any 'evidence' that may relate to the crime or cause further incidents or criminal intent.

Once the evidence is collected and analyzed, the items are given back IRL. (unless some crucial item such as the weapon). I dont buy that the cop needed my sandwich for a felony evading and felony reckless driving charge. And you are lying to yourself if you honestly think that.

 

On 1/18/2019 at 7:16 PM, Denni said:

-1 to both. 1, no, just no. There are far more criminals at the moment. 2, again, no, it's part of the "don't to the crime if you can't do the time..."; or in this case, if you can't lose your stuff.

This just sounds like punishing people for doing a certain part of the servers economy, not adding any form of realism, or helping either party. Cops get away with a lot of shit that others wouldnt be able to, the same cannot be said about civis to that extent. The lack of a court system currently gives the cops way too much power, you don't even have to "do the crime" and you might get arrested because of a hellbent on revenge cadet thinks you did it. The lack of organisation in the PD is also very apparent. And if people really want to add the 'realism' they claim to love all around, and not just say it for the things they like, and forget for those they dislike, then the second point should be added.
 

Edited January 20, 2019 by TheCanadian

[Denni]

24 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

Once the evidence is collected and analyzed, the items are given back IRL. (unless some crucial item such as the weapon). I dont buy that the cop needed my sandwich for a felony evading and felony reckless driving charge. And you are lying to yourself if you honestly think that.

 

This just sounds like punishing people for doing a certain part of the servers economy, not adding any form of realism, or helping either party. Cops get away with a lot of shit that others wouldnt be able to, the same cannot be said about civis to that extent. The lack of a court system currently gives the cops way too much power, you don't even have to "do the crime" and you might get arrested because of a hellbent on revenge cadet thinks you did it. The lack of organisation in the PD is also very apparent. And if people really want to add the 'realism' they claim to love all around, and not just say it for the things they like, and forget for those they dislike, then the second point should be added.
 

Your sandwich would be extremely out of date and unedible by the time you leave prison IRL. 120 months? That's a rotten sandwich.

With all due respect, you've been part of the community the best part of a month so you really cannot state too much about the servers economy or the PD. Go apply to the PD, see the protocols in place and then comment on organisation because there is a lot more work behind the scenes than you may think. Especially with the amount of new players thinking it's GTA Online PT 2. 

If PD had to give back all the items every time someone is out, you'd literally only have PD giving back items. Any items on you, should you commit a crime, should be sacrificed. If I have a radio, a gun, a hat; this is all valid evidence in terms of prints etc. I get that sometimes food is a little overkill, I understand that.

If the jail sentences were longer, IE up to 8 hours, I would honestly +1 what you said with a court system etc. However, because 120 minutes is nothing, for example... I'll go kill 10 people, couple cops etc. Get 120 max time. Then I'll make sure I do it like an hour before bed, get arrested, go in prison, 2 hours afk (because you can there) and then it'll kick me out inactive after... That's what some do, that's what the problem is, not a sandwich.

If you have a problem with a cop, or you feel mistreated, go talk to a higher up OR go on the government forums and place an IA report. They do get looked at. 

[nateX]

You are free to make crimes anywhere on the huge map of GTA V except 10 small spots. No Crime Zones are heavily guarded areas, which have cameras, guards, correctional- police officers etc. where it would be unrealistic to commit crimes in real life. 

[Xoza]

47 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

Once the evidence is collected and analyzed, the items are given back IRL. (unless some crucial item such as the weapon). I dont buy that the cop needed my sandwich for a felony evading and felony reckless driving charge. And you are lying to yourself if you honestly think that.

Never said that I support officers taking things like sandwiches. I would take things that you would not get back IRL.

[TheCanadian]

I have alot of issues with the things you have said Denni, First.

1 hour ago, Denni said:

Your sandwich would be extremely out of date and unedible by the time you leave prison IRL. 120 months? That's a rotten sandwich.

 

Sure, sandwiches can be deleted upon arrest (cop doesn't get to keep it either). or any perishable foods. But once again, you seem to be applying this decomposing aspect of realism to suit what you want and not applying it consistently. Sure, fuck it your idea that food should spoil appears to be a good one, hell I'm all for it. But then this would mean you also cannot keep a sandwich on you forever or in your storage at home, you understand what im saying? This is not a valid counterargument for OP's post if you are not willing to apply it to the rest of the server and instead you are just using it as a red herring.
 

1 hour ago, Denni said:

With all due respect, you've been part of the community the best part of a month so you really cannot state too much about the servers economy or the PD. Go apply to the PD, see the protocols in place and then comment on organisation because there is a lot more work behind the scenes than you may think. Especially with the amount of new players thinking it's GTA Online PT 2. 

See that is what makes it even worse, you are right in that i haven't been here long compared to the length of the server, and yet all this time, all of the organisation that had to be put in place to get it this far.... And it still is how it is. I cannot tell you the amount of times I have rolled up to a active scene, one cop yells at me to get the fuck out of the area, the other tells me to get out of the car, i drive off, they chase me and try to get me for felony evading before i explain to the sergeant that one of them told me to leave and i didnt know what order to follow so i just left.  This example is not one that would require alot of organisation, this is the most basic shit to get sorted once you are at a scene no matter how small or big. The drug labs are more organised than the cops making a stop for an illegal u-turn. 

 I understand that new players are a hassle, bunch of people are just out there looking to shoot cops, etc. Whatever, but if we add your so beloved aspect of 'realism' to this example, in real life cops are trusted with more power than a normal everyday joe civilian because they are supposed to be better I.e: look at the better side of 2 situations, understand them, take the facts from them, not react emotionally to a situation, etc.etc. You get the Jist. The excuse can never be said of 'do you know how hard my job is?' after killing someone by accident why? because we trust cops with more power. 
 

1 hour ago, Denni said:

If PD had to give back all the items every time someone is out, you'd literally only have PD giving back items. Any items on you, should you commit a crime, should be sacrificed. If I have a radio, a gun, a hat; this is all valid evidence in terms of prints etc. I get that sometimes food is a little overkill, I understand that.

Above posts have already suggested the idea of a script to do this.

1 hour ago, Denni said:

; this is all valid evidence in terms of prints etc. I get that sometimes food is a little overkill, I understand that.

I'm sorry my dude, i have to call the biggest bullshit on this. you once again adding realism to suit what you want it. You never see cops /me puts on nitrile (or whatever the proper material is) gloves. /me carefully picks up and places the sandwich in an evidence bag. etc. they straight up go to your body ninja loot all the shit you got, and then proceed with the arrest. Also the funniest thing is that even if they would do that you are still wrong, once the trial is over items are usually returned to their owner unless they were contaminated, in terms of firearms that can vary from different laws. I might also be able to buy your case of 'its needed for evidence' if it wasnt for the fact like you also conveniently mentioned which is the lack of a court system. What do you need the evidence for? As it is, the cop is the judge jury and executioner. The police doesnt have a case to show lawyers or judges, no prints required if they say the man is guilty, hes guilty. They do not need the evidence for what it is used for normally IRL which would be in court. Once they injured/arrested the subject he doesnt have his chance to prove his innocence. 
 

1 hour ago, Denni said:

 If you have a problem with a cop, or you feel mistreated, go talk to a higher up OR go on the government forums and place an IA report. They do get looked at. 

A simple report does not fix the fundamental issues that PD has in its lack of organization on a daily basis.

I hope you read this all and understood what is wrong with the statements you make and seek to become more consistent in the way you apply your so beloved realism and RP.

 

Much love, 

Mercer

Edited January 20, 2019 by TheCanadian

[Denni]

24 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

I have alot of issues with the things you have said Denni, First.

Sure, sandwiches can be deleted upon arrest (cop doesn't get to keep it either). or any perishable foods. But once again, you seem to be applying this decomposing aspect of realism to suit what you want and not applying it consistently. Sure, fuck it your idea that food should spoil appears to be a good one, hell I'm all for it. But then this would mean you also cannot keep a sandwich on you forever or in your storage at home, you understand what im saying? This is not a valid counterargument for OP's post if you are not willing to apply it to the rest of the server and instead you are just using it as a red herring.
 

See that is what makes it even worse, you are right in that i haven't been here long compared to the length of the server, and yet all this time, all of the organisation that had to be put in place to get it this far.... And it still is how it is. I cannot tell you the amount of times I have rolled up to a active scene, one cop yells at me to get the fuck out of the area, the other tells me to get out of the car, i drive off, they chase me and try to get me for felony evading before i explain to the sergeant that one of them told me to leave and i didnt know what order to follow so i just left.  This example is not one that would require alot of organisation, this is the most basic shit to get sorted once you are at a scene no matter how small or big. The drug labs are more organised than the cops making a stop for an illegal u-turn. 

 I understand that new players are a hassle, bunch of people are just out there looking to shoot cops, etc. Whatever, but if we add your so beloved aspect of 'realism' to this example, in real life cops are trusted with more power than a normal everyday joe civilian because they are supposed to be better I.e: look at the better side of 2 situations, understand them, take the facts from them, not react emotionally to a situation, etc.etc. You get the Jist. The excuse can never be said of 'do you know how hard my job is?' after killing someone by accident why? because we trust cops with more power. 
 

Above posts have already suggested the idea of a script to do this.

I'm sorry my dude, i have to call the biggest bullshit on this. you once again adding realism to suit what you want it. You never see cops /me puts on nitrile (or whatever the proper material is) gloves. /me carefully picks up and places the sandwich in an evidence bag. etc. they straight up go to your body ninja loot all the shit you got, and then proceed with the arrest. Also the funniest thing is that even if they would do that you are still wrong, once the trial is over items are usually returned to their owner unless they were contaminated, in terms of firearms that can vary from different laws. I might also be able to buy your case of 'its needed for evidence' if it wasnt for the fact like you also conveniently mentioned which is the lack of a court system. What do you need the evidence for? As it is, the cop is the judge jury and executioner. The police doesnt have a case to show lawyers or judges, no prints required if they say the man is guilty, hes guilty. They do not need the evidence for what it is used for normally IRL which would be in court. Once they injured/arrested the subject he doesnt have his chance to prove his innocence. 
 

A simple report does not fix the fundamental issues that PD has in its lack of organization on a daily basis.

I hope you read this all and understood what is wrong with the statements you make and seek to become more consistent in the way you apply your so beloved 'realism'

 

Much love, 

Mercer

I'll put this really simply, as I can tell this has angered you. Items are taken off, because if they get it back, what have they really lost? Nothing. People commit crimes really easily and for such little reasons and the consequences of committing the worst crimes is just 120 minutes of jail time; MAX. You can't have your cake and eat it. So you can call bullshit all you want, but you haven't seen it from both sides; law and criminal. Why are you even rocking up to crime scenes? What purpose? There is none... You shouldn't actually have any reason unless you were there already. People just do it to get in the way, on purpose. 

Instead of not accepting other peoples opinions; hence you only quoted people who did a -1; why don't you post a suggestion on HOW TO IMPROVE LSPD. Instead of just saying; they don't do this, shouldn't do this. How could it be further improved? Give proper suggestions. I am in full agreement with a court system, but the problem is, the punishments and consequences need to be higher.

Sorry I forgot to add... If a cop takes anything from you it should NOT be kept by the cop. Anything I take gets deleted. Sandwiches and everything. I pretend I've given it to the evidence locker.

I hope you understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and in no way should they be spoken to like you just have, looking down on them. Nobody is being harsh to you or nasty; just replying back to your quotes and why everyone's opinion is equally valid.

Much Love,

Denni

P.S. Where did I keep mentioning "realism"? Are you plucking things out of thin air? I actually understand a lot of what you're saying but you fail to understand other peoples opinions. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Denni

[TheCanadian]

28 minutes ago, Denni said:

I hope you understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and in no way should they be spoken to like you just have, looking down on them. Nobody is being harsh to you or nasty; just replying back to your quotes and why everyone's opinion is equally valid.

I would actually love to continue this conversation in voice chat if you are alright with that, seems much better than over text on forums

[Denni]

8 hours ago, TheCanadian said:

I would actually love to continue this conversation in voice chat if you are alright with that, seems much better than over text on forums

+1

[Xoza]

While an argument or debate is not the intention of these forums, it does allow others to pitch in and really help discover what the issue is and create an idea or suggestion to solve it.

Your original argument was that PD were taking items they shouldn't be taking, leading to the suggestion that there should be a scripted 'box' you can store your items in when you're detained.

You revealed the concerns that there are inconsistencies in the staff procedures at the justice department levels which lead to the recommendation of filing a report or talking to a higher rank.

There is a procedure to everything, we all just have to take the right steps, the department doesn't just push them aside, they either send out a notice about it or they'll add it to training. If anything, at least try to talk to the police officer ICly first, then OOCly.

[Kaizure]

Just going to post my two cents on this suggestion.

 

1.

This one is going to receive a -1 from me, and here's why: unfortunately there are only a few people who would actually role play trying to get the PD to release their friends and/or try to make more/better RP when coming onto a scene. I know you think it will lead to good if people are allowed to shoot cops / free their friends in an NCZ, but it's unfortunately just wishful thinking. The unfortunate reality is: just because you would do it doesn't mean anyone else will.

I really understand the desire to see more RP opportunities, or the hope that changing something will help to better RP overall, but sometimes in order to make a change for the better, you need to start with the people and not the mechanics. Best advice I can offer is: work with your friends to see if you can get them to RP in a way that supports what you have suggested - a way that makes for a better RP experience for everyone in every situation. Stand as the example for others to follow. Then after enough RP has been done over the course of a few weeks, consider asking for changes again if you feel your efforts aren't having the desired effect.

 

2.

This one I will +1, and also support the idea of having an 'evidence locker' so people can retrieve their items after the RP is done (with the exception of guns). I don't think there's a valid reason to take food or drink from people, so I don't think that should be allowed.

You could argue that food would spoil by the time people got out of prison, and while I agree that from a real life perspective it would, there's stuff that happens on the server that doesn't make sense in real life either... such as getting shot and eating a hamburger to heal yourself. Bullet wounds don't work that way.

So yeah, people should get their legal items back after they've served their time.

[Hilbert]

On 1/19/2019 at 7:13 AM, Xoza said:

 

On 1/19/2019 at 7:13 AM, Xoza said:

2. Police are obligated to take any 'evidence' that may relate to the crime or cause further incidents or criminal intent.

 

What does my donuts have to do with with hit and run or armed robbery?

Sometimes they take your food at Bolingbroke and share it with other inmates in there.

One time I've even had police take my clothes that won't fit to him.

[Xoza]

4 hours ago, Hilbert said:

What does my donuts have to do with with hit and run or armed robbery?

Sometimes they take your food at Bolingbroke and share it with other inmates in there.

One time I've even had police take my clothes that won't fit to him.

Okay guys, I'm explaining they should be taking items affiliated or can be used for criminal activity, I'm not supporting they take the items they're not.

With the new update now, police should be taking alcoholic drinks, due to bottles being made into weapons.

[atomboy7]

+1

[Randul]

I think most of if not all agree that all your items should be removed from your person when you enter jail including current clothes they should only have small effects like pictures of family / friends. 

I also think that the majority believe that your none perishable items excluding any weapons should be returned to yourself after some rp with DOC (as rightfully they should have the items). 

[Doan]

If you want to suggest changes in rules, you should do so in the Rules Suggestions sub-forum.

Police taking your items is In-Character, however there are now lockers in prison for each inmate that can be retrieved at the end of a sentence.

This suggestion is archived.