Adding Farmsteads to No Crime Zone

[Vasquez]

Hello.

Yesterday I made a Server suggestion, where I told about my first hours on the server, and how I had been constantly harrashed by robbers.

This is a serious problem for me. 
I joined the server yesterday, and just hit the 1000 xp mark, which means that I'm now a target for robbers.
Theres so many robbers on this server, that I cant even farm in peace, without being constantly robbed, even before I start harvesting and working on the field.

Its honestly so excessive that its almost unplayable for me.
It seems like the only way to earn money on the server, is by trucking ( constantly moving, harder for robbers to get you )
or by breaking the law and do unlawful things, such as selling drugs or weapons.

It seems to me that theres a hard Cop vs Robbers mentality on the server, which makes it very very hard to be an honest man.

Therefore I'd like to present an idea to give players a chance to work, without getting ganked and robbed.
(( The robbers are just driving past the farms, waiting for some average Joe to start working, before robbing him. ))

I want to add;
Osvaldon's Farmstead 
And
Paul's Farmstead

To the list of NZO's.

Let the robbers go for you when you deliver your wheat bags, at least that gives honest farmers a chance.
 

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For:           0
Against:    2

For/Against is based on the replies made to the suggestion thread and not on likes

 

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Edited December 26, 2018 by Vasquez

[Matriks]

-1 if you want to make money without getting robbed work as a courier.

[Vasquez]

2 minutes ago, Matriks said:

-1 if you want to make money without getting robbed work as a courier.

Thats the problem tho.

Courier doesn't give you much money, which means that there's going to be a huge grind just to get the same you get as one run as a farmer.

The constant robbing is making the server unplayable and unwelcoming for new players, such as myself.


I wouldn't suggest this, if it wasn't for the fact that there's constantly robbers robbing the farmsteads. 

 

To even it out, you could even decrease the payout for the wheat bags, so even though its a NZO, its not 'overpowered' if you know what I mean.

[alexalex303]

I don't believe an OOC solution for an IC problem is needed here.

Things like this happen in real life, it's the reason store owners used to pay protection tax. If you want protection from the criminal element, either law enforcement or bigger criminal elements can provide it.

Adding yet another area where people can sit with no fear what-so-ever is not the solution.

-1

[Vasquez]

Just now, Darnell said:

I don't believe an OOC solution for an IC problem is needed here.

Things like this happen in real life, it's the reason store owners used to pay protection tax. If you want protection from the criminal element, either law enforcement or bigger criminal elements can provide it.

Adding yet another area where people can sit with no fear what-so-ever is not the solution.

-1

Then whats the solution?

" I don't believe an OOC solution for an IC problem is needed here "

Nobody have fixed the robber issue yet, clearly IC actions ain't fixing it.
Robbers are currently out numbering the Cops, most of the Robbers don't get caught, so increasing the IC punishment wouldn't help at all.

"Things like this happen in real life"

Funny how you want to compare it to real life.
I understand its a roleplay server, but thats not how its getting treated.

It's easy saying how we shouldn't imply this, when you're a Donating players who have played on the server with some time, and while having advantages.

How do you expect new players to join a roleplay server, when most players are just treating it as a Cop Vs Robber server?
Its like saying " Sure you can get an honest job, but you're gonna get constantly robbed, unless you choose a job that pays you 200 dollars for driving 8 km. "

As a new player, thats very unwelcoming.

[alexalex303]

Of course older players are going to have advantages.

However, I think you are perhaps misinformed if you think that older players never get robbed, I was robbed less than 24 hours ago. 

I did not want to make the area where I was robbed a NCZ, instead I chose to deal with it through in-character means.

[Vasquez]

1 hour ago, Darnell said:

Of course older players are going to have advantages.

However, I think you are perhaps misinformed if you think that older players never get robbed, I was robbed less than 24 hours ago. 

I did not want to make the area where I was robbed a NCZ, instead I chose to deal with it through in-character means.

I dont believe in adding NCZ just because I was robbed once and its annoyed.
I have been constantly harrashed by robbers since I joined the server yesterday, each time I try to make some honest money, I get robbed.
( In the link in my original thread I tell about my robber encounters within the early hours of joining the server )

That being said, the Farmstead is a very popular place for robbers to rob people, which means that adding a NCZ at that location, would at least force the robbers to choose other places to rob, instead of just sitting and waiting for a player to start working.

Here's the thing tho.
If you don't give players proper options on how to make money, then you're indirectly forcing them down a path.
You're being punished for joining a faction or a gang, as the civilian population is constantly being robbed, due to the excessive population of robbers.
I'm talking about players who would rather rob people, than roleplay, or use roleplay as a tool to rob people, thus not joining the server for the right reasons.
As I earlier stated, as a new player, this makes the server feel very unwelcoming and it also makes the roleplay part of the server seem like its an extra activity, and not the main focus of the server.

So, sure you can say that you are not supporting my suggestion, but unless you got a better suggestion on how to fix the robber problem, then you're really not helpful. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Vasquez

[Flucifial]

It's a -1 from me for the idea of the entire farm being a complete no crime zone, as that is a big area for robberies to occur (not saying this is a good thing) but due to the lack of criminal content, there isn't a lot we can offer as far as robberies go at this point in time, and that is known.

I'd fully support a rule or script limitation that limits players to one farm robbery per every 24 hours (OOC time, not IC) to give farmers a bit of a chance to actually make some money with farming.

We actually had a system that was intended to help farmers, and that was base income (before tax increases) which was supposed to give farmers a nice pay hourly, even if they did get robbed, but due to the mistake of taxing the base income, we seem to have fallen back into our old issues, and that is the ever increasing rate of farm robberies.

I think a nice fix plan for farmers would be as follows:

• Limiting criminal characters to only robbing one farmer per day (This includes robbery ATTEMPTS).
• Removing taxes on the base-income system, only taxing government or job salary.
• Increasing the experience count to rob new players (this is already confirmed, it will happen)

Happy Holidays!

[Vasquez]

14 minutes ago, Flucifial said:

It's a -1 from me for the idea of the entire farm being a complete no crime zone, as that is a big area for robberies to occur (not saying this is a good thing) but due to the lack of criminal content, there isn't a lot we can offer as far as robberies go at this point in time, and that is known.

I'd fully support a rule or script limitation that limits players to one farm robbery per every 24 hours (OOC time, not IC) to give farmers a bit of a chance to actually make some money with farming.

We actually had a system that was intended to help farmers, and that was base income (before tax increases) which was supposed to give farmers a nice pay hourly, even if they did get robbed, but due to the mistake of taxing the base income, we seem to have fallen back into our old issues, and that is the ever increasing rate of farm robberies.

I think a nice fix plan for farmers would be as follows:

• Limiting criminal characters to only robbing one farmer per day (This includes robbery ATTEMPTS).
• Removing taxes on the base-income system, only taxing government or job salary.
• Increasing the experience count to rob new players (this is already confirmed, it will happen)

Happy Holidays!

I understand that you don't want the whole farm area to be one big NCZ, but its hard to see what other options we have.
You mentioned the lack of criminal content, but I would rather put focus on the lack of roleplay content.
The whole robber vs cop mentality got to go.
Criminals already have tons of oppertunities, such as joining a gang, chop shops, crime labs, selling/making drugs and guns, robbing stores and robbing other players.
Faction members can choose betwhen different factions that gives them different perks, such as free weapons, armor, great cars and so on.
Civilians on the other hand, are on the bottom of the food chain.
We have a couple of jobs to choose from, trucking, farming and such, yet we dont have any perks, and we're mostly the target of the robbers.
If any, there should be more focus on adding Civilian advantages, maybe that would make people rob less, and focus on a more 'Civilian' kind of lifestyle ( and roleplay?)

While I don't mind having a hard time as a Civilian, the current state of the server makes it almost impossible to work as a farmer, without being robbed at least once a day.
I like your idea about adding a limit on the farm robberies, but I do think there should be a way to make sure people are not going to go around it (( Such as partnering up with another player, thus giving them 2 robbery (attempts) )) 

But even with the rob limit, the amount of robbers would almost render it useless, as the farming area is well known and visited many times by different robbers.

Opening up the conversation is a great start to work towards a change, thank you.

[Kaizure]

On 12/26/2018 at 3:00 PM, Vasquez said:

I understand that you don't want the whole farm area to be one big NCZ, but its hard to see what other options we have.
 

It's really not.

I understand being frustrated with being robbed constantly. I was a trucker when I started out on the server, and I'd get chased down and robbed by people all the time. I also had trucker friends who decided to become farmers because the pay was better, but they were fully aware of how often robberies would occur.

We had a radio frequency to keep in touch with one another. I'd always be off doing my trucker route and keeping in touch with people over the CB Radio to ensure other truckers are safe as well as knowing what areas are more dangerous at the moment than others. Couple that with my friends keeping in touch over our radio frequency and we had ourselves a sort of civilian militia - looking out for each other against the vast number of criminals looking to rob us. Naturally cop RPers weren't too happy with this because it bordered on being vigilantes, but what else could we do? It's hard for the cops to arrive at the farm because of how far out it is, so we had to rely on ourselves and our friends to keep ourselves alive and safe.

And that's where you have an in-character solution.

Turning the farms into a no crime zone is not the answer; it's a knee-jerk reaction out of desperation and annoyance with the hope that something can / will be done about it. But whenever I tell people that farming earns you the most money, I also warn people that farming comes with the most risk because of how far out it is and how open it is.

Best course of action? Meet other farmers around you, suggest getting a radio to keep in touch, and work with your friends to protect each other in case the worst should happen.

[Vasquez]

8 minutes ago, Kaizure said:

Turning the farms into a no crime zone is not the answer; it's a knee-jerk reaction out of desperation and annoyance with the hope that something can / will be done about it.

To sum it all up ^^

I understand that with great risk comes great reward, but at the current state of the server, the farming jobs are unusable without at least 2-3 guys watching your back.
You are not even safe within the city ( Can't even park your car at the community garage without getting robbed ) and at this point, it's completely ridiculous that the majority of the servers playerbase, are "roleplaying" as robbers.
Farming is one ( if not the only ) of the civilian jobs that doesn't make you sit in a car and drive around the city, unloading stuff.

RP wise it seems stupid that the only way you can collect wheat for bread or baking, is by hiring a small army to protect you.
How RP is that tho.

[Kaizure]

1 hour ago, Vasquez said:

To sum it all up ^^

I understand that with great risk comes great reward, but at the current state of the server, the farming jobs are unusable without at least 2-3 guys watching your back.
You are not even safe within the city ( Can't even park your car at the community garage without getting robbed ) and at this point, it's completely ridiculous that the majority of the servers playerbase, are "roleplaying" as robbers.
Farming is one ( if not the only ) of the civilian jobs that doesn't make you sit in a car and drive around the city, unloading stuff.

RP wise it seems stupid that the only way you can collect wheat for bread or baking, is by hiring a small army to protect you.
How RP is that tho.

Depends on how you do it.

Nobody is safe in the city. Whenever you park somewhere, whenever you visit a hair salon, whenever you go shopping for a hamburger, there's a chance of being robbed. Even off duty officers and medics get robbed in the city. It's just a harsh reality you need to accept on the server. At least it's not like vanilla GTA Online where a casual stroll down the street results in being bombed from orbit.

Farming might be one of the few jobs where you're not in a car all the time, but whether or not you're in a vehicle doesn't really make a huge difference. In real life it won't matter if you drive a truck, farm a field, work at a convenience store, etc. Everyone can be robbed at any time just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of their job.

RP-wise you don't need to hire an army to protect you for growing wheat to make bread. What you can do, however, is approach the Police Department and ask if they have any units to spare to keep an eye on the farm because you suspect people are going to target you. If they are at least made aware that there is active farming, they might be at the ready to respond to emergency calls up that way a little quicker.

Alternatively, as I said, you can start making friends with other farmers or people you see working and doing every-day jobs. One thing I loved about being a trucker was the CB Radio, which allowed me to suggest we pull over somewhere and start meeting each other. We'd RP hanging out in places like truckers would at a truck stop, we'd warn each other about areas that seem to be getting dangerous, and we'd use our personal radios to communicate when off-duty for casual and emergency reasons.

The solution doesn't need to be the implementation of an NCZ or you hiring a small army... it just boils down to: meeting people, making friends, and working with those friends to watch each other's back.

Even criminals don't stand alone. If something goes down, they call on each other for help.

[Vasquez]

1 minute ago, Kaizure said:

Depends on how you do it.

Nobody is safe in the city. Whenever you park somewhere, whenever you visit a hair salon, whenever you go shopping for a hamburger, there's a chance of being robbed. Even off duty officers and medics get robbed in the city. It's just a harsh reality you need to accept on the server. At least it's not like vanilla GTA Online where a casual stroll down the street results in being bombed from orbit.

Farming might be one of the few jobs where you're not in a car all the time, but whether or not you're in a vehicle doesn't really make a huge difference. In real life it won't matter if you drive a truck, farm a field, work at a convenience store, etc. Everyone can be robbed at any time just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time regardless of their job.

RP-wise you don't need to hire an army to protect you for growing wheat to make bread. What you can do, however, is approach the Police Department and ask if they have any units to spare to keep an eye on the farm because you suspect people are going to target you. If they are at least made aware that there is active farming, they might be at the ready to respond to emergency calls up that way a little quicker.

Alternatively, as I said, you can start making friends with other farmers or people you see working and doing every-day jobs. One thing I loved about being a trucker was the CB Radio, which allowed me to suggest we pull over somewhere and start meeting each other. We'd RP hanging out in places like truckers would at a truck stop, we'd warn each other about areas that seem to be getting dangerous, and we'd use our personal radios to communicate when off-duty for casual and emergency reasons.

The solution doesn't need to be the implementation of an NCZ or you hiring a small army... it just boils down to: meeting people, making friends, and working with those friends to watch each other's back.

Even criminals don't stand alone. If something goes down, they call on each other for help.

You put it in great perspective.
I just find the amount of robbing that's going on to be extreme, it overwhelmed even my wildest expectations I had before joining.
I'm still new to the server, and I just want to give players more 'safe' spaces as long as they are out numbered against robbers.

At the current state of the server, non-criminal players are very limited on what they can earn money on.
If they choose to remain faction-less, then getting a job is pretty much the only way to go.
While I enjoy driving around as a courier, the driving can be very repetitive. 

That's why I enjoyed doing the farmer job, as I could stay in the same area and had time to roleplay if I wanted to.
I agree that you could ask the PD to maybe have a unit in the area, but there's a lot of criminal activity going on, especially with robbers robbing stores,
and the fact that the police are outnumbered, doesn't really give farmers a fair chance. 

I think we need to add another job like farmer, but located much closer to the PD, to decrease the robbing chances, or somehow strenghen the farming areas.
Maybe give farmers a panic button? Give farmers an upper hand to even the odds. 
 

[Kaizure]

20 minutes ago, Vasquez said:

At the current state of the server, non-criminal players are very limited on what they can earn money on.
If they choose to remain faction-less, then getting a job is pretty much the only way to go.

 

I kind of view starting jobs as a sort of 'rite of passage' into the server. It introduces RPers to the RP on the server and the kinds of things that can (and usually will) happen. There might only be a few of them, but it's enough where it allows players the opportunity to learn the server functions and what they ultimately want to try to do on the server.

Some people choose to be dedicated truckers or farmers, some become medics or officers, and some become criminals.

 

If you're unhappy with the current state of things, where non-criminal RPers are limited to what they can do and the fact that they're constantly getting robbed, you could always start an unofficial faction of your own. Think of it like the Minutemen from Fallout, where you protect each other from criminals (raiders) at a moment's notice. ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS YOUR HELP!

Joking aside, it's something you could totally do. Get enough people on board, get access to legal firearms, and keep in touch over the radio... can do some awesome things to make life more challenging for cirminals who are looking to pick on the working man.

The cops won't appreciate it because, as said, it's vigilantism... but when you're all the way up North and the PD can't respond to your calls for help quick enough, sometimes you need to rely on yourselves. And dealing with the consequences of vigilantism can add to the experience.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Kaizure

[Taedolf]

PD member here, I totally agree with the suggestion made to form your own sort of unofficial faction.  As unfortunate as it is, generally PD tends to hang around the city because that's where the majority of crimes happen and where the majority of players congregate.  It takes a decent chunk of time to go from the city to one of the farms.  I don't think an NCZ limitation is good because NCZs really aren't gameplay balancers.  They're zones where it'd be, quite frankly, stupid to commit a crime because of the amount of people and camera coverage around.  A farm simply doesn't fit this.

I hesitate to side with the suggestion to put in a limit like 24 hours between robbing farmers because..  Well, #1, how would it be enforced and tracked?  #2, is removing RP and interactions and encouraging grinding cash what we want to do?  I don't believe so.  The amount of armed robbery is unfortunately a side effect of a still relatively limited amount of activities to pursue on the server.  Sadly this will not be resolved overnight and I think this is one of the things that just needs to be accepted and worked against in character.

[attacking]

Server need more legal and ilegal job civilian is thinking only to farm or trucker and criminal is thinking only for drug or robbery its soo boring for all of us we need more choice 

Edited December 29, 2018 by attacking

[SezzeseParola]

If funny how you get robbed every 40/50 minutes, hope this thing will die down at some point.

 

[Xoza]

Robbery should require two people, one with gun, the other taking stuff, like stores.

[DeanThompson]

IC solution is required - Not an OOC one.

Robbing farmers is a fun activity for many, and a fun criminal element is a must.

My IC solution is do farming with friends, make sure you're armed. Talk to the police, make arrangements with them. Perhaps seek out protection from gangs, or maybe just do a different job entirely or join a faction.

[forgonesoul]

On 12/30/2018 at 4:31 AM, DeanThompson said:

IC solution is required - Not an OOC one.

Robbing farmers is a fun activity for many, and a fun criminal element is a must.

My IC solution is do farming with friends, make sure you're armed. Talk to the police, make arrangements with them. Perhaps seek out protection from gangs, or maybe just do a different job entirely or join a faction.

People do this and still get robbed. I can't even go 10 minutes with out being robbed just driving around.

 

 

 

 

What rp is there when all it is, is people robbing one another all the time? This whole robbing thing has been going on for well over a year now. For the people I try to rp with.. wait.. I am not able to as I am being robbed all the time and our actual role-play is stopped due to an over large number is people robbing everyone. Over the last two years, criminal activities have been developed while anything for non criminals/non-faction workers have not been developed or touched. I no longer view Eclipse as a Role-Play server. It's just cops and robbers glorified. I agree with the OP in the area of, all these people robbing everyone can drive away new players. Hell, it's even starting to drive away some of the older players too. I can't even progress cause of the consistent robbing. I actually rely on welfare now to even make cash, and all that gets slammed into constantly repairing my vehicles, parking them, and buying fuel to try and make money without being lazy. I rather not join the bandwagon as I hate taking things from others that they sank time into. My favorite robbery of today was being told I was the bad guy while at gun point being robbed. Like what kind of mentality is that? There used to be a time where people actually helped each other. Now it's just a mass of mindless robberies being viewed as "Role Play". Its not enjoyable nor is it very much of an experience when all that there is to it is, "Get out of the car or we'll shoot" or, "Hands up, this is rob" with forced /do's. 

~Edited to fix a spelling error

Edited January 2, 2019 by forgonesoul

[MusketDeezNuts]

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