Tier reward discussion/suggestions

[Bakmeel]

This thread is to discuss tier rewards and/or give us suggestions on new tier rewards that we could implement. Keep in mind that these suggested tier rewards should not require development work.

Please keep this thread civil and stay on-topic. Comments that don't will get removed.

original post can be found here:

 

 

[MrDisciple]

Couple ideas:

Increase in faction members from 40 to 45.

Decrease heavy weapon import price.

Increase shipment power thats generated on main turf.

A couple Special vehicle imports through cartel.

Higher tiers shouldn't have to wait so long for Alt RP.

[Dimja]

31 minutes ago, MrDisciple said:

Couple ideas:

Increase in faction members from 40 to 45.

Decrease heavy weapon import price.

Increase shipment power thats generated on main turf.

A couple Special vehicle imports through cartel.

Higher tiers shouldn't have to wait so long for Alt RP.

So the increase in faction members should be a tier reward?

[Melody Frey]

1 hour ago, MrDisciple said:

Couple ideas:

Increase in faction members from 40 to 45.

I like all of the ideas here except this one. I don't agree with raising the member cap, as increasing them will only give smaller and newer factions even more little room to grow. 

+1 on all of the rest overall.
I know FS/FM is against the idea of giving a vehicle/vehicles for factions, but a faction specific vehicle would be really cool. Maybe not as a permanent thing, but maybe a /fspawn similar to how mechanic factions get? I'm not sure the difficulty of the implementation of it, but would love to see that happen.
(I don't think it would take development work since it's already available in game as well? But unsure)

Edited November 28, 2022 by Melody Frey

[Bakmeel]

1 hour ago, MrDisciple said:

Couple ideas:

Increase in faction members from 40 to 45.

Decrease heavy weapon import price.

Increase shipment power thats generated on main turf.

A couple Special vehicle imports through cartel.

Higher tiers shouldn't have to wait so long for Alt RP.

- As we rather see more diverse factions than larger factions, we will keep the faction cap at 40 players for all tiers.

- We have a discount on everything you can import at tier 7. We have heard your feedback on lowering the prices in general for heavy weapons and prices will change for all weapons with the new gun update. We are unable to give you an ETA for this update.

- Shipment power should be the same on all of the turfs. This is still a bug that needs to be fixed by devs.

- We have stopped giving out vehicles as rewards for official status/tier rewards and will not be implementing this.

- Alt RP is a colaboration between FS and the Event Team. We work on a first come first serve principle. The more complex a request is the longer it will take to prepare everything which can delay other requests aswell. Usually these events can only be done in weekends due to the availability of staff members. If you are refering to the waiting period between requests its due to the work load for the event team as they need to plan and organise their own events and give other people a chance aswell.

22 minutes ago, Melody Frey said:

I know FS/FM is against the idea of giving a vehicle/vehicles for factions, but a faction specific vehicle would be really cool. Maybe not as a permanent thing, but maybe a /fspawn similar to how mechanic factions get? I'm not sure the difficulty of the implementation of it, but would love to see that happen.

This would require development work and is not something we can offer as a tier reward.

[Ash]

- The business licensing reimbursements: Does that apply to their subsidiaries because I know some legal factions have like 10 subsidiaries that arent really part of the faction to spread costs and charge them for it (are they pocketing the difference if so?)
- A suggestion for legal factions (and maybe illegals) could be access to a SA+ for a little while through requests to do some custom decorating (just a few pieces, not full on renovation) ) at their faction properties given to them with props that are not in furniture store, for example a helipad that Assured has)

[Melody Frey]

1 minute ago, Ash said:

- A suggestion for legal factions (and maybe illegals) could be access to a SA+ for a little while through requests to do some custom decorating (just a few pieces, not full on renovation) ) at their faction properties given to them with props that are not in furniture store, for example a helipad that Assured has)

I would also adore this. My faction has always wanted to make a skate/BMX park somewhere but all of the props for that must be admin spawned and aren't available in the furniture store.

[Bakmeel]

1 hour ago, Ash said:

- The business licensing reimbursements: Does that apply to their subsidiaries because I know some legal factions have like 10 subsidiaries that arent really part of the faction to spread costs and charge them for it (are they pocketing the difference if so?)
- A suggestion for legal factions (and maybe illegals) could be access to a SA+ for a little while through requests to do some custom decorating (just a few pieces, not full on renovation) ) at their faction properties given to them with props that are not in furniture store, for example a helipad that Assured has)

- No, these reimbursements are only for the faction itself. So scripted stores such as general stores, gun stores, dealerships and loan companies will not fall under this, nor will it be for subsidiaries.

- Nice idea, we will look into it.

[Puzzling]

Is the property limit going to be increased with the 2 that are granted along with a warehouse (unsure if a warehouse counts towards a property), or would these be owned by FM, and you could give the manageperm which allows you to give perms to everyone without having to own it. Realistically a legal faction will get a property through the IC system before they are even close to official, being granted one at early would be 2 which is the limit, and if you get a warehouse that could be 3? Then if you get the higher tier for another one that would end up being 3/4.

Would factions that already have properties just skip over that then?

Edited November 28, 2022 by Puzzling

[checkky]

ALT RP should be somewhere within the rewards for each Tier.

Meaning:

• Tier 2/3 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 6 months
• Tier 4/5 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 3 months.
• Tier 5/6 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 2 months.

 

[Ritchie Stones]

it would be cool to be able to import drugs for resale purpose, you import a bunch and everyone can sell those drugs in larger quantities, and then non gang members can cut those up and sell them to NPC's that randomly walk in the city 

[hrxvey]

8 hours ago, MrDisciple said:

Increase in faction members from 40 to 45.

I think if anything, the member cap for gangs should be halfed, or at least down to 30. This is because gangs have such a crazy amount of people at the moment, and so many people aren't active due to different timezones. This means that more gangs will end up coming around, meaning more gang activity as a whole will crop up. More gangs means more politics between gangs, more issues, more rp in general and more diverse interactions, not just a case of "you are rooks, no shoot. you are otf, shoot." etc. The reason that the crim life was better in 2019/2020 was simply because there were more gangs. I don't think what i've said is particularly relevant to the topic, however it would be a nice addition for the FM such as @Bakmeelto look into

[hrxvey]

6 hours ago, Melody Frey said:

skate/BMX park

there are a few dotted around the map already, its more effort than its worth to make one i'd say.

[Dola]

Takes way too long to get Tier 2 imports and one of the main reasons there is only two gangs left that can import. 

Tier 1 should be a thing given as soon as you receive handlers. F4 menu is great way to communicate with everybody at once quickly and lowers chance of reports happening. 

Tier 2 should take as long as tier 1 takes now like it use to and admins shouldnt be as harsh on deciding if they get it or not like they are now.

It shoudnt take minimum 6 months of your life grinding to possibly gain the ability to order a gun in a game. It is a GAME. 

[Bakmeel]

I have removed some comments that did not follow the rules for this thread. Please remain on-topic. 

Original post can be found here https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/133247-faction-services-tier-sytem-explained/#comment-436351

 

[Melody Frey]

Since at tier 1 we are now going to be in talks with modders regarding custom clothing, I would also love to see custom liveries for the faction be available around lower tiers!

[Bakmeel]

15 hours ago, Puzzling said:

Would factions that already have properties just skip over that then?

No. We haven't encountered a situation like this before, but I am confident we could find a solution for that player/faction if this was the case.

 

15 hours ago, Checkky said:

ALT RP should be somewhere within the rewards for each Tier.

Meaning:

• Tier 2/3 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 6 months
• Tier 4/5 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 3 months.
• Tier 5/6 could acquire ALT RP scenarios every 2 months.

Every tier can already request altRP every 2 months, we have no intentions to make this longer for factions below a certain tier.

 

14 hours ago, Ritchie Stones said:

it would be cool to be able to import drugs for resale purpose, you import a bunch and everyone can sell those drugs in larger quantities, and then non gang members can cut those up and sell them to NPC's that randomly walk in the city 

We already offer something like this at Tier 5

- Ability to import rare drugs such as Shrooms and Steroids via LFB/Cartel.

These are drugs that can't be obtained any otherway currently and can be resold by gangs to actual players.

I like your idea, but it would require development work which is why we can't offer it as a tier reward. 

12 hours ago, DeanDolan7 said:

Takes way too long to get Tier 2 imports and one of the main reasons there is only two gangs left that can import. 

Tier 1 should be a thing given as soon as you receive handlers. F4 menu is great way to communicate with everybody at once quickly and lowers chance of reports happening. 

Tier 2 should take as long as tier 1 takes now like it use to and admins shouldnt be as harsh on deciding if they get it or not like they are now.

It shoudnt take minimum 6 months of your life grinding to possibly gain the ability to order a gun in a game. It is a GAME. 

The time required for someone to get official is completely depending on the faction itself. We have had factions go through the tier 1 stage quite quickly where as others needed some more time to be ready for tier 2. 

Our tier system is not something scripted, this means that if we give a faction an F4 menu theyll have access to taking over turfs and ordering, this in turn means that Faction Services has to keep an extra eye on all of these factions.
With your reasoning this would mean that you can tell each other to save POV easier with an F4 menu whilst we already allow factions to have a discord where they can send OOC messages to each other.

We mentioned starting in tier 1 or tier 2 in our F.A.Q. 

Q: What tier will I start in?
A: A faction will be placed in either Tier 1 or Tier 2 once they recieve official status. This is due to a large number of factors including reviewing how our Official Faction system is working in conjunction with the present amount of factions and server environment. Too many official factions, especially those similar in nature, as well as too few official factions, have different impacts including but not limited to minimizing perks of official status as well as crippling potential criminal roleplay. Because of this, the tier system's starting flexibility is important.

9 hours ago, Melody Frey said:

Since at tier 1 we are now going to be in talks with modders regarding custom clothing, I would also love to see custom liveries for the faction be available around lower tiers!

This is definitely something we can look at in the future. At the moment the modding team is still very busy getting the first batch of outfits in the game. Once that process is running smoothly we will look at expanding rewards done by modders.
 

[sickyy]

1 hour ago, Bakmeel said:

 

The time required for someone to get official is completely depending on the faction itself. We have had factions go through the tier 1 stage quite quickly where as others needed some more time to be ready for tier 2. 

Our tier system is not something scripted, this means that if we give a faction an F4 menu theyll have access to taking over turfs and ordering, this in turn means that Faction Services has to keep an extra eye on all of these factions.
With your reasoning this would mean that you can tell each other to save POV easier with an F4 menu whilst we already allow factions to have a discord where they can send OOC messages to each other.
 

A simple solution for you is to appoint every criminal faction with handlers a legal F4 menu. This only comes with faction chat, no problem!

[Melody Frey]

I'm not sure if this would take development time, as I'm not entirely sure as to if SA+ could just do this or not; but perhaps at tier 3+ we could get access to a gang script parking at our HQ? I've noticed almost all gangs leave their vehicles out at their HQs now and that would be an amazing addition.

[MrDisciple]

@Melody Frey Your suggestions for getting gang scripted parking lots and /fspawn command for gangs isn't ever going to happen, for the better. Also these suggestions are for non-scripted rewards for tier system... 

[Melody Frey]

9 minutes ago, MrDisciple said:

@Melody Frey Your suggestions for getting gang scripted parking lots and /fspawn command for gangs isn't ever going to happen, for the better. Also these suggestions are for non-scripted rewards for tier system... 

I'm just trying to give ideas as to what sounds fun. As I stated, I wasn't sure as to if this is something as simple as dropping a point similar to those that can spawn an interior, or if it would require actual dev work. I'd rather be told "No, we can't do that" over "No one ever suggested it, so we never thought to include it"!  

[hrxvey]

3 hours ago, Melody Frey said:

I'm not sure if this would take development time, as I'm not entirely sure as to if SA+ could just do this or not; but perhaps at tier 3+ we could get access to a gang script parking at our HQ?

this is a cool idea, but do you not think its better for the cars to be parked there as a form of presence at your hq even though you're not there? the way chopping works now, cars are never lockpicked anyway and seems somewhat too much to be worth it. idk tho

[Juicay]

6 hours ago, Melody Frey said:

I'm not sure if this would take development time, as I'm not entirely sure as to if SA+ could just do this or not; but perhaps at tier 3+ we could get access to a gang script parking at our HQ? I've noticed almost all gangs leave their vehicles out at their HQs now and that would be an amazing addition.

I mean it’s an idea but a weird and wacky one at that, it sounds like your trying to make gangs into PD and SD.. Realistically parking and /fspawns are supposed to be RPed as massive parking lots and or garages filled with cars, I understand it’s an idea but there’s no need for criminals to have a central parking lot at there HQ, it makes no sense. Especially at places like grove street where it’s an empty poor run down gang territory, you ain’t just gunna go “ah yes I’ll think I’ll place a 4 story car park here for my gang to use”. You get my point, this being added will also take the fun out of buying properties houses etc near your gang HQ to store cars in close to it, which also then limits RP as why would you want to buy a house if you can just park it at your HQ. I heavily agree on what @hrxvey said also why despawn your car by parking it and not use it as a statement instead for example Ballas back in the day, you would see shit tons of purple cars around grove street even before the chop shop update, which not only showed gang activity but brung more RP to the hood and made sense RPly, other than sticking it into a fat garage and calling it a day.

Edited November 30, 2022 by David_

[Cyrus Raven]

Full disclaimer, I have never been in a Criminal Faction so these thoughts are just based on my perception, feel free to correct me.

 

Some of the suggestions posted seem great. Equally, I think it's great news that FS is being more transparent on how these systems work. However, I think there needs to be a focus on changing core aspects of how factions work to reduce the time spent to get weapons and progress up the faction tier ladder. A few suggestions/ideas:

 

• In my opinion, the goal should be to maintain a high standard of RP without stifling the nature of criminal RP, which does involve conflict, shoot outs, etc... People are likely willing to have in-depth RP between factions and on their own if they know that they are likewise able to have fun. (From my perspective, this seems to be one of the biggest reasons for the current state of criminal RP). If the current system essentially forces people to be spending 20 hours of work per week to afford to be decently armed and prepared for one conflict then that's likely an issue that needs to be looked at. The way the tier system can assist in this is by rewarding and encouraging ease of access to weapons in combination with the already teased reduction in weapon import prices. Maybe having tier rewards that allow certain factions to have discounted prices from the Cartel on specific types of weapons. Additionally, while conflict between groups is good in terms of intercepting drops, maybe having a horizontal tier (Example: Tier 2A) to reward groups who focus on player to player weapon sales which promote interaction with other groups as well as individuals. 
• Already somewhat mentioned, but getting access to F4 to manage your crew properly should be significantly easier to obtain and advancing to the next tier to get access to imports should be the ''main challenge'' so these factions can prove they are able to handle the responsibility. Until devs are able to modify the F4 menu to differentiate between factions in tier 1 vs factions in tier 7, maybe the handlers can be the ''owner'' of the faction, scritply speaking, to prevent abuse of treasury, etc...
  
  Achieving long-term criminal groups and civilian groups should be the goal, instead of having the flavour of the month. However, both are good. Once these small groups exist, through conflicts, turfs, etc... only a few will evolve into bigger groups while the smaller ones get disbanded. It should be easy to have F4 and start recruiting IC'ly, it gives members a sense that they are actually a part of the group instead of just IC'ly being a criminal group, if I had to guess, it probably also motivates them. I'd love to be able to just say, well F4 isn't important, you can do all this IC guys, and while that's somewhat true, it misses the mark on the type of players we have. I'm sure more experienced criminal RPers can give you more examples or more in-depths suggestions on how to work on the tier system in a way that won't be too prone to abuse while also allowing a bit more freedom and from what I've heard there is a criminal RP group chat to discuss these types of issues.

The majority of serious and long-term criminal RPers want to be able to have fun without feeling like they are working another 9-5 job just to get something like F4 or access to imports while also following rules and focusing on developing in-depth lore for their respective gangs and characters. Some of what I spoke about like weapon prices are paramount, but as mentioned it requires dev work, I just mentioned it since it was brought up by Bakmeel. Other than this, ''State of [Insert meme name]'' threads already mention several issues needing to be addressed, but in so far as FS goes, I think these are the main things to look into.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Cyrus Raven
Edited reply to focus on tier system and not criminal RP as a whole

[Marksy]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:47 PM, Cyrus Raven said:

Full disclaimer, I have never been in a Criminal Faction so these thoughts are just based on my perception, feel free to correct me.

 

Some of the suggestions posted seem great. Equally, I think it's great news that FS is being more transparent on how these systems work. However, I think there needs to be a focus on changing core aspects of how factions work to reduce the time spent to get weapons and progress up the faction tier ladder. A few suggestions/ideas:

 

• In my opinion, the goal should be to maintain a high standard of RP without stifling the nature of criminal RP, which does involve conflict, shoot outs, etc... People are likely willing to have in-depth RP between factions and on their own if they know that they are likewise able to have fun. (From my perspective, this seems to be one of the biggest reasons for the current state of criminal RP). If the current system essentially forces people to be spending 20 hours of work per week to afford to be decently armed and prepared for one conflict then that's likely an issue that needs to be looked at. The way the tier system can assist in this is by rewarding and encouraging ease of access to weapons in combination with the already teased reduction in weapon import prices. Maybe having tier rewards that allow certain factions to have discounted prices from the Cartel on specific types of weapons. Additionally, while conflict between groups is good in terms of intercepting drops, maybe having a horizontal tier (Example: Tier 2A) to reward groups who focus on player to player weapon sales which promote interaction with other groups as well as individuals. 
• Already somewhat mentioned, but getting access to F4 to manage your crew properly should be significantly easier to obtain and advancing to the next tier to get access to imports should be the ''main challenge'' so these factions can prove they are able to handle the responsibility. Until devs are able to modify the F4 menu to differentiate between factions in tier 1 vs factions in tier 7, maybe the handlers can be the ''owner'' of the faction, scritply speaking, to prevent abuse of treasury, etc...
  
  Achieving long-term criminal groups and civilian groups should be the goal, instead of having the flavour of the month. However, both are good. Once these small groups exist, through conflicts, turfs, etc... only a few will evolve into bigger groups while the smaller ones get disbanded. It should be easy to have F4 and start recruiting IC'ly, it gives members a sense that they are actually a part of the group instead of just IC'ly being a criminal group, if I had to guess, it probably also motivates them. I'd love to be able to just say, well F4 isn't important, you can do all this IC guys, and while that's somewhat true, it misses the mark on the type of players we have. I'm sure more experienced criminal RPers can give you more examples or more in-depths suggestions on how to work on the tier system in a way that won't be too prone to abuse while also allowing a bit more freedom and from what I've heard there is a criminal RP group chat to discuss these types of issues.

The majority of serious and long-term criminal RPers want to be able to have fun without feeling like they are working another 9-5 job just to get something like F4 or access to imports while also following rules and focusing on developing in-depth lore for their respective gangs and characters. Some of what I spoke about like weapon prices are paramount, but as mentioned it requires dev work, I just mentioned it since it was brought up by Bakmeel. Other than this, ''State of [Insert meme name]'' threads already mention several issues needing to be addressed, but in so far as FS goes, I think these are the main things to look into.

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself, for a short and sweet version including some of my own opinions.. Factions should get access to F4 early on to be able to feel like they're actually part of a group, import prices should be lowered massively to promote better RP over grinding jobs 20 hours a week to buy an AK and some .50s to lose them in the next gun fight.. The only reason we have the toxic win mentality over good RP between factions is the financial gain from clapping eachother in the form of the weapons, where on one hand gun fights with police feels like a real RP scenario due to events that would have led up to that and due to the fact there's no financial gain from killing cops, opposed to gangs attacking eachother hoping to score some free guns.