Appropriate PD Practices

[Destuin]

Not really much to say about this, another thread no doubt PD will come rushing into. Just noticed a report on the forums that included this clip:

https://streamable.com/39m0m0

I was shocked to find out this is not infact a gang pursuit? But two police officers in random clothes on personal vehicles nipping around the populated city in there high speed BIKES, taking absolutely no consideration for there life or any sort of RP standards. Criminals can risk there life on a bike it makes sense, you won't see high speed performance police bikes nipping in and out of traffic in LA. How much longer is this sort of action going to continue? Recently we saw a lot of archived community suggestions. These suggestions going back 2-3 years, and many of these also talking about PD's standards. Here is another topic to hopefully get some attention about it...

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Destuin
Added link after OP deleted it

[Harley]

Man's just cosplaying leave him alone xd

Edited January 20, 2022 by Harley

[Destuin]

3 minutes ago, Harley said:

Man's cosplaying as a clap crew on a personal bike xd

It also appears, that the guy overtaking him on the drag in the wrong lane travel is ALSO a police officer on their personal vehicle. Why are personal vehicles even allowed for on duty officers??? This makes absolutely no sense. Don't the police department already have high performance bikes (which they shouldn't), that they could be using... 

[TheCactus]

Why's this even here and being discussed. You have abosultely 0 insight or info about what was going on but you want to talk about things like you know more than we do.

Try to gather more information about your topic before trying to shame talk, judge or discuss something cause that do be honest, doesn't concern you.

 

Ignorance is an ugly beast

Edited January 20, 2022 by TheCactus

[Destuin]

1 minute ago, TheCactus said:

Why's this even here and being discussed. You have abosultely 0 insight or info about what was going on but you want to talk about things like you know more than we do.

Try to gather more information about your topic before trying to shame talk, judge or discuss something cause that do be honest, doesn't concern you.

 

Ignorance is an ugly beast

Do you really think this is an appropriate response from a support staff when it comes to this matter? Your attitude is disgusting. I as much as any other crim player have just as much right as you to comment on these matters and how dare you try to censor my opinion. You need to take a long hard look at yourself and realise its just a game, and we are here to discuss whether the player base feels that the actions in this clip are befitting of a PD officer. I would appreciate you attempting to keep the discussion on topic, as I do not want this to be archived as I am sure there are lots of other people who would like to see and discuss this matter.

[Kris]

To those who do not know - I am the faction leader of the LSPD. I would appreciate to have OOC matters either raised directly to me, or through Internal Affairs if you believe there is a wrongdoing - or something that could be done better. But to disguise this topic as a "discussion" with the introduction you put does not do you or who you represent any justice.

[Harley]

Maybe instead of flaming eachother, @TheCactus could maybe give some insight on what's going on here? Not sure why everything has to turn into an argument. I'm truly interested in when this type of RP is appropriate. Not shaming anyone, just curious on an RP scenario and I'd love to learn more, as I think anyone else reading this thread would

[Destuin]

3 minutes ago, Kris said:

To those who do not know - I am the faction leader of the LSPD. I would appreciate to have OOC matters either raised directly to me, or through Internal Affairs if you believe there is a wrongdoing - or something that could be done better. But to disguise this topic as a "discussion" with the introduction you put does not do you or who you represent any justice.

If stuff like this is brought up in private it is too easy for it to be swept under the rug. I have brought several issue to staff in private for them to all be disregarded. In a thread like this we can get a public comment, so that everyone can see the stance of the LSPD etc. Maybe you could explain to us what RP went into making this decision? As to people like myself who are less informed, this appears to be poor rp from the PD. Could you explain RPly, why it makes sense for any officers to be using personal vehicles for police duty? Do you believe this is good RP? I cannot say I have ever heard of a police officer rolling up to work in his own car and then going out on pursuits? I haven't even touched on the RP involving helmets. When we see the normal police bike units they are all geared up and seem to understand the risk of driving a bike. I am actually a very big fan of the standard police bikes you see patrolling. 

[Destuin]

The video in my initial post has since been deleted by the author @TheCactus? So I am not sure if we can even continue the discussion 

 

EDIT:

I managed to recover the original file! That was lucky. Unfortunately I could not get the original audio. Please see this link for the content in question:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Destuin

[WindEZ]

Edited

[Homast]

2 hours ago, Destuin said:

I cannot say I have ever heard of a police officer rolling up to work in his own car and then going out on pursuits?

I will personally say that at least in SD, You need to get your vehicle approved for duty use by Executive staff, And that's only for use for things like going undercover. Never for simply being like "Well damn, lemme get my drag out cuz we got a drag pursuit" If it was already deployed, then I mean, It's probably going to get used, but in my personal experience, I haven't experienced on either side, a personal vehicle being deployed solely to pursue somebody.

As for the fact that it's a bike I mean... We all know about the liberties taken involving population density. If you're able to find a plausible route through "Traffic" who's to say an officer trained to use a HSMU/MRU isn't able to as well? 

I'm personally against the usage of Personal vehicle for anything other than undercover work, as well... PD and SD both already have many of the tools available to them to be able to catch or keep up with High Speed Bikes, even in cases where it can be seen as such the person evading is fleeing, and even if a department doesn't have access YET, it's within reason that they can easily get access within reasonable time, to quote someone from a JTAC situation recently about undisclosed vehicles "You guys have access to those now?"

Overall, I don't think the intention was for the OP to actively flame or witchhunt, nor do I think it was Cactus' intention to be so curt. As someone who plays on both sides of the fence, Criminality is hard to play around, It's said to simply "Don't do the crime" but that's literally 1/3 of the play experience on the server, and for crims looking into the LEO side, Yes, there's quite a bit that you're not privy to, both OOCly and ICly for reasons of Protocol and preventing the invitation to metagame, but most of the time, there's regulation behind what gets done. As kris said, If you feel like something is a bit off or to put it bluntly, fucky, contact members of staff, contact faction leadership. I understand that there's the sentiment of "It'll get pushed under the rug" but there's nothing to push under the rug if there isn't ever anything brought to the table.

That's my 2 cents on the matter and well, I may not be the dalai lama or anything like that, but I think at least I've got a fair outlook on the situation at hand.

[Prezeey]

I don't have a position on either side of this discussion as both sides have points to be made. I also understand that Kris is following this discussion so he can take my concerns if he would like to. This pursuit is happening in the middle of the city and in the middle of the day. At least with what I can tell, there is only 1 other officer blocking a road for the bikes. Speeding 180 through multiple intersections with blind corners and hills with little to no protection seems totally unrealistic. There are also hills that they are currently driving on that if driven over at speed, means you are getting air. The officers and the one getting pursued are both going into the hills which should make it dangerous for a bike pursuit. The biggest issue I have with this situation (at least with what I can see/hear) is that the helicopter is with the bike the entire time of the short recording. It doesn't make it realistic for LSPD to use bikes in the city then unless its on a highway and especially not if they were personal vehicles. Another concern with this is what if the bike they were pursuing opened fire on them. There is hardly any protection if something were to happen from the gun fire or any accidents that may occur during the chase.

But at the end of the day I know that LSPD are always looking at ways to improve RP so hopefully all concerns that are addressed here gets considered. Enjoy RP!

[Destuin]

Hi, 

I would like to add that as per the title I am specifically referencing PD. I notice the issue far less when role-playing with there northern counterparts. Most criminals I speak to reiterate this statement, that the standard of RP for SD is higher than PD. I personally have never seen a SD officer in a personal vehicle, let alone an active pursuit with multiple. Where as this sort of practice is more Common with PD. Aswell fear RP should be playing a far higher part in the city than up north due to what would realistically be a higher population. So it makes more sense for SD to pursue high speed on the highway. They have a hard shoulder lane with no civilians and less populated streets. The point of the crim having to consider this less is not about skill it's about risk. That crim is fleeing to save himself from YEARS in prison. The cop however, is doing his job, he has much less to lose if the criminal gets away. The risk a criminal would take to evade is far higher than the risk an officer would take in a pursuit. 

[GR_Seb]

LEO faction members should start creating discussions about the constant lack of fucks given when we aim weapons.

Also, we should start making discussions on how dumb it is to change frequencies with carbine rifles aimed at your head but we don't. Should we?

Or maybe we should start complaining on discussions on how criminals act and upload our 10 giga pov's from both departments combined. Before you complaint about something, look what YOU do wrong and discuss on how the community can improve. How bored can you be to raise a whole topic on a random dude who poped a wheelie from a random video? 

I don't see ANY OF YOU being disturbed from actions like these. But when a LEO member does something wrong or when you believe he's wrong, all hell breaks loose.  What should WE say when we keep facing bullshit like these? 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Papadakis

[Destuin]

16 minutes ago, Papadakis said:

LEO faction members should start creating discussions about the constant lack of fucks given when we aim weapons.

Also, we should start making discussions on how dumb it is to change frequencies with carbine rifles aimed at your head but we don't. Should we?

Or maybe we should start complaining on discussions on how criminals act and upload our 10 giga pov's from both departments combined. Before you complaint about something, look what YOU do wrong and discuss on how the community can improve. How bored can you be to raise a whole topic on a random dude who poped a wheelie from a random video? 

I don't see ANY OF YOU being disturbed from actions like these. But when a LEO member does something wrong or when you believe he's wrong, all hell breaks loose.  What should WE say when we keep facing bullshit like these? 

 

This isn't a PD vs CRIM thread so please do not try to derail it and turn it into one. We are talking about the every day actions of PD, and how they consistently do not matchup to the rest of the RP standards seen within the server. If you would like to make a thread discussing PD rp vs CRIM rp, I will be more than happy to provide lots of examples, and statements to debunk your theories.

[apologisemeow]

So if this is in-fact their own personal vehicle's how would they have access to the police tracker to help during pursuits, surly this should only be a feature in police issued vehicles not by keeping a GPS in your pocket.

[sNo0BbZz]

Im just gonna put this here...

https://streamable.com/2pq1bb

[Jett_J]

13 minutes ago, apologisemeow said:

So if this is in-fact their own personal vehicle's how would they have access to the police tracker to help during pursuits, surly this should only be a feature in police issued vehicles not by keeping a GPS in your pocket.

The trackers work through GPS so if you just put a department issued GPS in your motorcycle then it would work.

[Timmaayy]

Before this gets out of hand, and straying away from the initial topic I will be locking this thread.

As mentioned by Kris, if you have any OOC issues regarding the LSPD faction raise it directly with him, or submit a OOC AI report in which it will be investigated.