Quietthecutie

From previous suggestions we have had on forums i would say the prevailing "tin foil hat" theory is that LEOs dont respond to impound requests deliberately because when they notice one they "CBA" and "people arent motivated to take a trip to the impound." the common counter argument would be that LEOs are too busy, not as your are eluding to, that they are not motivated. Honestly we may have gotten it misconstrued if the reason is a lack of motivation/direction/notification. none of these things have been given as reasons by LEOs in the past as to why they dont respond. if thats the case perhaps that needs looking at.

You realise you just proved your tin foil hat theory right?

+1 holy guacamole how is this not already a thing?

In Ireland there are a few options: Chicken Burger: a pattie of ground chicken and spices, battered, cooked and prepared similarly to a regular beef burger. Chicken Fillet burger: Fillet of chicken (typically breast) either battered and deep fried or grilled, served in a bun with toppings of cheese, onion, mayo, lettuce. Chicken Sandwich: and variety of sliced or pulled pre cooked chicken, between two slices of council issue white bread. served cold. Other varieties would be a chicken toastie, chicken baguette and chicken salad.

I did not say making 20-30k a chop. please read my comment carefully. I said per hour. dependant on availability and RNG you could find 2-4 cars an hour to chop. depending on their quality those numbers are realistic. there has definately been a decline in the profitability of chops but i maintain that its the easiest route for smaller crims to make money.

Jesus thats alot to unpack, you could easily have boxed this into 3-4 different suggestions to make it easier to discuss....so ill try to divide my opinions onto each separate point you raise: House Robberies: I am in agreement that for the setup and time commitment of house robberies the payout is kinda meh/RNG based. occasionally you will come across that a house that has a gun or other high value item stashed, but its incredibly rare. moreover if its a gun, it dosent come with ammo so you cant even use it right away to create more RP ops short of waving it at a store clerk, unloaded. in general house robberies feels like the weakest form of criminal OP right now. depending on the location of the house it can be relatively safe but its also incredibly time consuming and moreover, time sensitive. you have to plan the rest of your playtime around it which makes sense. but for the amount of setup, not to mention the equipment which for a 20k robbery will be about 3 boxes, a drill and a truck/multiple vehicles, a lot of crims just see it as not worth..this is disappointing as clearly its a RP op that the devs put alot of work into but are seeing relatively little activity. Labs: The recent changes to labs means I am unable to have an informed opinion onto weather or not this is a good change for the server. My snap decision is that this would just equate to more clap gangs holding more labs for their own dudes and robbing smaller orgs. with smaller orgs no longer able to cook drugs in relative safety to build themselves up. this is again taken with the massive grain of salt that is, its a new change so we should wait to see how this plays out. Chops: Chops have not been changed much recently to my knowledge? they are still far and away the easiest and safest way for small time/solo crims to make money. a solo crim small chopping cars (no engine/chasis) can easily make 20/30k p/h which is kinda baller in this economy. this is however entirely dependant on there being enough cars to chop and at peak times, when 2-3 gangs might be patrolling the city looking for cars the pickings can be very slim. most gangs have the spawn spots pretty figured out at this point and can easily loop and own them. ATMs: The ATM change for me is a welcome one. ive always seen it as an entry level crime for small time crims and seeing both a payout increase as well as a reduction in response alerts both help with this. good job. Final thoughts: Ill finish on the point that I understand that the new changes are supposed to encourage RP, private labs were removed specifically because of this. because Devs dont want the server to be all about sitting in a property watering tables and just generally not being out on the map, doing stuff. and I totally get that but, the removal of such a large mechanic has left an unmistakeable void which has yet to be filled. I feel like crim ops need something, anything more besides fighting over labs. i dont know what this would be yet, i dont know what shape it would take but i know that game balance is just that, its a balance, and when you remove something so big, you should add something back to restore that balance. we are yet to see that. there are alot of avenues we could take for new criminal ops. black market running, petty crime, fraud, there are a host of options to explore. I hope that these will be looked at.

this seems like a good compromise. impound is not a mechanic service, but still, being able to drive said car out of impound insted of having to call for an ADDITIONAL mechanic service, which at peak times can be challenging, would stop alot of newly released cars being mors'ed.

In total agreement that the amount of people currently just running around tackling people for the sheer living Frick of it is outrageous right now. but that was always going to happen once something like this was added to the server. goons just doing goon shit. and I have seen entire flocks of dudes just randomly tackling each other. and the less said about people being able to basically infinitely stun lock someone with tackles the better. If them tackling you without a proper reason to do so, I would currently treat that in the same way as someone just punching you for no reason. its assault. but its not the same as someone putting a gun to your head or a knife to your throat or even repeatedly punching you to til you go down. therefore I would only class it as DM if the RP that followed from the tackle killed me. in which case its not even the tackle itself that was the problem but what followed. if its used properly within the correct situations I think it could be a benefit. so yeah, currently I believe any tackle related rule breaks would be NRP, not DM. but ultimately much like @Cup says, its a new mechanic, need to let this one marinate before I would have an informed opinion. give it a month and see if we feel like its still a problem.

-1 For me just because of general rules of economics. If everyone gets a pay bump, no one will. 90% of the costs in the server are subject to supply, demand, and are set by players. If all civilian jobs receive a 15% pay bump, it will only take a few months before all vendors/dealers raise their prices by 15%. this is called inflation and its unavoidable in any kind of free economy. this means that any pay rise wouldn't help civilians but hinder crims and freelancers. the only people who would win with this suggestion are the owners of large businesses like car dealerships, gas stations and stores, who would reap bigger margins. The suggestion sounds great on paper. anything that increases wages automatically sounds like bliss, but when you break it down a little this suggestion falls apart. With regards to what might work? @Pujdo already referenced quarertly bonuses that most if not all civ orgs give out. these are usually in the region of 100k+ for just being on their books. performance bonuses are another option, an incentive to not just sit tabbed out and do the bare minimum is always nice, but how that would be implemented across various jobs would be...a challenge.

Welcome to the community. There have been many many, many variants of this suggestion over the years, from only allowing small pistols such as SNS and combat to be concealable, to only if you are wearing certain clothing (hoodies, long jackets etc.) The consensus comes down to basically it would have to be scriptly hidden. as in not just RPly, which makes it a coding problem. there also seems to be a large contingent of players who just think that within the current rules of the game, there are already ways to conceal weapons such as bags, gloveboxes etc. and that having people just whip out hitherto unknown weapons would just make RP interactions more confusing. You can find some of the previous discussions here to see where they went: https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/search/?q=concealed&quick=1

+1

ok so, I understand why you may feel a general confusion as to the role of JB and as to why you feel like I zeroed in on you. sorry about that, it was not my intention but as I was scrolling through the replies and as someone who spent over a year in JB i just felt like there was a disconnect there between opinion and fact that obligated me to correct it. as many JB players do not frequent forums. for the first point. JB is all about the ICly interpretation of the law. not about in game fairness, which seems to be what this post is all about. people can complain about how the state law is unfair. this is as universal in the server as it is in real life. but this is how JB handles their RP. by the law, not by how the law should be as per certain factions interpret it. ultimately that is down to the performance of both the prosecution and the defence within the courts and ruled upon by a judge. it is ENTIRELLY RP. and in no way supposed to represent IC fairness. this is why i tried to highlight JB as a vessel for RP ops and not as a bastion of game fairness. it is open to both interpretation and character negligence. therefore its a poor measuring stick for game fairness. In your second point, theres a divide youre not adressing, which is the difference between factions. LEO factions are held to the same exacting rules as crim factions, but they have a vastly superior amount of tools at their disposal to accomplish their goals. the inner rules regarding both types of factions as dictated by FM are significantly different. LEOs have access to tracking and forensic mechanics that crims do not. they have the ability to supress and monitor as per their reactionary role within the city. it is categorically unfair. it would require the criminal element to either obtain an overwhelming amount of manpower and resources to level the playing field, or an intense amount of clever play and organisation to overturn. the point i was trying to get to here was if you are trying to take on the cops, you better have alot more under the bonnet than "awh, dude, that was so not fair to play against." thats the whole idea. I didnt feel the need to involve myself in the entire argument but i did leave a cavaet at the end of my post which you have not referenced which semi advocated for OPs suggestion but was just curious as to how we implemented it. as per many of the forum suggestions we get it sounds great on paper but once you start examing how we might fix it, it gets messy. Again, this is the forums, and this is where these kind of discussions should take place. i mean no player any ill will, i have both legal and crim characters, but when we suggest something like this, we should also have respect for what has got us this far, and an idea as to how we can improve. not just general hand waving. (edit: cleanup and final point)

Incorrect. JB actually has very little to no bearing on fairness of LEO interactions. yes, court cases can happen and convictions can be overturned, but these are on a IC legal basis, not a fairness basis. a good defence attorney character could point out a lack of evidence or failure by the LEOs to complete the proper paperwork etc but they wouldn't get involved with anything like an excessive amount of respondents to a minor crime, which I believe is what we are talking about here. By the time JB gets involved said person has already been chased, caught and served their time in DOC. the only real thing JB offers you is a chance to have convictions removed from your characters record, and a small monetary reward as compensation for the time served. the real strength that JB offers are unique RP ops, not game fairness. if people have an issue with cop responses or how they caught you, an IC/OOC IA or forum report (depending on what happened) is a much more effective route. Again, this is not the case. Server rules exist so that everyone has to play by the same standards. everyone should know what they can or cannot do. that does not mean those standards have to be fair. cops have every advantage over criminals in terms of resources available to them. it is a totally unfair fight. but its designed to be that way. to heavily discourage violence against LEOs and make it so that crims have to play smart and sneaky and can rarely just brute force a win if the cops find them. All that being said...i semi agree that having like 4 cruisers pull up to a by the numbers traffic stop is not uncommon in the city and kinda annoying because they are all just sitting there hoping you evade. surely if 1 or 2 cruisers are already on scene the other cruisers would be better served patrolling and seeking out other crime insted of just hoping they can get involved in another partys RP. how exactly we would fix this and implement this in game is beyond me tho. feels like it would have to be commed over police radio.

The fact that in game Police operate as judge and jury has absolutely no bearing on the suggestion. mechanically yes criminals get thrown straight into prison and serve their sentance but RPly they have already been found guilty in a court of law. this is done purely as a necessity for crime and punishment RP to flow effectively. it is not because the police actually rply hold that power. the only time this isnt the case is if the person retroactively files an appeal with JB, note the word appeal, because they have already been found guilty, rply in a court of law. we then scriptly acknowlege the case as still being "live." and court proceedings begin there. This is why police add "charges." and not "convictions." The point im getting to is scriptly, every time someone goes to DOC, they have already stood trial. so yes, time served does "wash."

What would the ranks actually do? what would the benefit be? Is having to run into the back to grab food really such a ballbreaker? I'm all for new suggestions but when youre making them, you need to explain the "why" along with the "what."

I am kinda shocked that this egregious level of metagaming is even a thing. I hadnt even considered it. +1 remove it or better yet @alexalex303s suggestion so it can still be used to help out newer players but not abused.

+1 An interesting one. Currently Leaning on its benefits outweighing its negatives. What's stopping you putting them in a cruiser to stop them from doing this? also last I checked just running around ignoring tasers or ignoring being held at gunpoint by LEOs is NRP/FRP. we already have rules in place to stop this from happening to an unreasonable extent. This "fairly major flaw" should never occur. if someone has that few charges why would it take over an hour to get them to DOC? typically its the larger scenes such as shootouts etc where the criminal would be stuck in the back of the cruiser awaiting cleanup for an extended period. in these scenarios the crims looking at around 2-3 hours in the can. You've never heard of "time already served?" If its going to take LEOs an in game year to clear up a scene and get a crim inside DOC, I think the suggestion is perfectly reasonable. You're right, we do. And we shouldn't seek to marginalise our brothers/sisters in green. However I find the argument that longer prison sentences automatically means better quality RP for DOC is flawed. RP quality and creativity rests with the individual player. some criminals really engage with DOC and create fun and interesting RP opportunities that DOC can participate in, and others run around just doing laundry, not interacting with anyone or even just afk/log as soon as their jtime starts. The length of their sentence has little to no bearing on this. You could just as easily make the argument that if sentences were shorter, criminals would be more encouraged to stay RP active within DOC and engage, rather than just mentally check out for 3 hours.

+1

-1 When a cop gets attacked, i want it to be for RP reasons and proper motivation. I dont want escalation to be fabricated out of nothing because "bro he has a carbine on his back."

In general agreement with this. I appreciate the outside the box thinking to the license suspension problem, but i dont think this would work. it would create a ton of metagaming issues as the circles of LEOs and Crims are simply too small. to a certain point most LEOs know most Crims, this would create a ton of "hang on, i know this isnt your name" scenarios we could do without. things would just get messy.

If this were to go ahead, and that is one hecc of an if, you would need to rethink how the trucker job is done from the ground up. currently there is simply not enough work to support a faction of any appreciable size. orders come in, orders get taken, orders go out. and I have not heard of any massive backlog of Trucker orders that would require a larger workforce. the towing and not paying for tolls part i agree with but surely theres a way around this that wouldnt require a faction. Maybe fold a trucker branch into DCC? that way when theres like 10 cabbies on some of them could hop in trucks while on the job and fill out orders if its really an issue. that way you dont have to worry about forming an org, a base of operations or a command structure.

Seems reasonable. the change to private labs came with little forewarning and even if it did, not really anything you could do about it. rply just "sell it back to the cartel"

in agreement that the suggestions section is currently a swamp. lots of good discussions, but no real actioning or organisation by the people who actually have the power to do it. you're left feeling like you're just going round in circles.

I feel like its only been a day since the update dropped, and none of us have enough experience to have an informed opinion yet. ill revisit this in a few weeks.

I don't think anyone has had enough experience with the new system to have an informed opinion quite yet. sample size is too small. give it a month or so and lets see how we feel.