Cops Too "Trigger Happy"

[Tony Tetrazzini]

Hello Everyone, I'm starting this discussion based on the last 48 hours of game play in Eclipse with interactions with Police in the server.

Two days ago me and my friend [in my head] were outside of the Paleto Mechanic Shop. My Friend was getting arrested buy Two Police officers. One was cuffing him while the other was sitting by the car talking to the people around the shop. Me seeing a good opportunity to hold the cop up at gun point and to get my friend free. So I pulled my gun out and started giving the cop commands. RP was good until cop 2 decided to shoot me while I'm still pointing a gun at the other officer. [Will be doing a Player Report] 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBv5bF1B_aM&ab_channel=imIneunt    [Full Clip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9t1KfFyXw&ab_channel=imIneunt    [Short Clip]

One day ago me and my friend started robbing someone with a gun in the middle of the city [Was not smart]. Cops showed up there was good RP. We got back into our car while holding the guy we were robbing at gunpoint. We get into a highspeed chase. We end up driving our car in the Bay. We end up swimming to the other side to a dock. As I'm jumping up onto the dock a cop falls into the water so my first reaction is to take him as a hostage so we can get a cop car and drive away. RP was still good UNTIL were getting into the cop car. We made a deal with the cops that well let the Officer go if they all back up. Two Officers start to back up the third cop is standing still [He was typing]. My officer I had originally started walking towards the other cops. So my first reaction is too point my gun at the cop standing still right next to me. [Which I thought was a fair play at the time [Now I know typing while having a gun out your still technically still pointing the gun] But since I didn't know? So me and my buddy tell this cop to put his hands up. While were giving him commands the other 3 cops run back down and instantly started shooting us while a gun is pointed at his head. Also why the officer was typing is because he was typing OOC while in mid RP to my friend saying he was NonRP. [Debating on Player Reporting because I didn't know you can type while holding a gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFHfcfw6iAo&ab_channel=imIneunt [Full Clip]

I just think Cops are just to "Trigger Happy" while one of there Officers LIFES ARE AT RISK! They are doing a coin flip if there fellow Officer gets out alive or not. That is not realistic at all because a Cop is going to do whatever the Criminal is asking to keep his fellow Officer/Brother alive at all cost. Most cops if not all have armor on ONE bullet isn't going to instant kill them if I shoot first. They have ARs, SMG, ETC... I guess in some situations if the bad guy has a bigger gun then just a pistol then yea maybe be more "Trigger Happy" but with a pistol you can definitely eat a bullet. But What do I know I just wanted to shine a light on this problem as it happened two days in a row. Cops shouldn't coin flipping a fellow cops life. Please if you have had similar experiences like mine please post them. 

[Charlie Mchoe]

I completely agree with you. I've had many situation where cops just start to unload rounds into me the moment I step away from a hostage. Cops will just argue that the hostage is safe when you step away from them so they can open fire. This is partially true however I feel like a rule or rules should be implemented to help revive hostage rp because at the moment there isn't a point of trying to even use a hostage simply because the cops don't fear for the hostages life enough to actually care about the situation. All that will happen is once you step away from the hostage you will get shot at then a medic from heaven comes down and manages to bls the 50 rounds into your skull from multiple directions after the bls you get took to MD and slapped with a 3hr+ sentence. Again cops will argue that it is realistic to shoot as the hostage is somewhat  out of harms way. There are many rp servers that make hostage rp fun and fair, Eclipse sadly isn't one of them. 

[Tony Tetrazzini]

You shouldn't be coin flipping a life. Its just pretty simple rule that all cops in real life follow. two days in a row where these cops do some drawling shit and then when you report them nothing gets done on them. I reported the first video last night 2 hours over 48 hour mark and they just deny it. When the video has clear cut evidence of rule breaking. Like sorry I'm busy that I cant report right away. 

[Agg]

I'm brand new to the server but from how you laid out your scenarios it sounds like you blatantly broke a bunch of rules:

1. The one you mentioned about pointing a gun and typing.
2. Intentionally submerging your vehicle (assuming you did it intentionally from the way you phrased it in your story). 
3. You aren't allowed to take another hostage for 1 OOC Week if police are involved, you said you did it again the day after.
4. Robbery in the middle of the city (the first bullet of rule 15)

[Brant]

If you believe a rule or rules have been broken, please post a forum report and staff members can take a look at it. I can understand the concerns that you have brought up. I do not believe that interactions with a handful of officers should be used to describe two factions. 

As stated above, there are rules in place about hostage situations and where robberies can take place. I'd like to recommend that you take a look at our community rules to ensure that you and your friend do not break any going forward.
 

[Bala]

On 5/6/2021 at 1:23 PM, Charlie Mchoe said:

I completely agree with you. I've had many situation where cops just start to unload rounds into me the moment I step away from a hostage. Cops will just argue that the hostage is safe when you step away from them so they can open fire. This is partially true however I feel like a rule or rules should be implemented to help revive hostage rp because at the moment there isn't a point of trying to even use a hostage simply because the cops don't fear for the hostages life enough to actually care about the situation. All that will happen is once you step away from the hostage you will get shot at then a medic from heaven comes down and manages to bls the 50 rounds into your skull from multiple directions after the bls you get took to MD and slapped with a 3hr+ sentence. Again cops will argue that it is realistic to shoot as the hostage is somewhat  out of harms way. There are many rp servers that make hostage rp fun and fair, Eclipse sadly isn't one of them. 

If you've had many situations where a hostage situation has gone south, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that we're doing something wrong or that you are?

From the other side, hostage situations happen too often and are rarely executed with good role-play. It's either someone has got caught robbing a bank/store so they take their friend hostage or they expect that taking a hostage means they have some sort of invisible forcefield around them.

Maybe there are other roleplay servers that make hostage roleplay "fun and fair", but there might also be other roleplay servers that don't have a hostage situation every time a bank gets robbed. 

If I had my way, people would only take hostages if they have special roleplay permission to do so. You know.. so it's "fun and fair" for everyone.

[Tony Tetrazzini]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:08 AM, Agg said:

I'm brand new to the server but from how you laid out your scenarios it sounds like you blatantly broke a bunch of rules:

1. The one you mentioned about pointing a gun and typing.
2. Intentionally submerging your vehicle (assuming you did it intentionally from the way you phrased it in your story). 
3. You aren't allowed to take another hostage for 1 OOC Week if police are involved, you said you did it again the day after.
4. Robbery in the middle of the city (the first bullet of rule 15)

Well if you watched the video where im pointing a gun at a cop talking out of character and not engaging in roleplay then yes. He is the one breaking the rule there.... as you can see in the video. 2) We drove into a dead end where there is little bays out back of the houses and the cop crashed into us which sent us into the water (Which I have on video but cut the clip short) 3) Yes this is the only rule we broke but were taking a police officer hostage not a stranger walking to go rob a bank 4) Wasn't technically in the middle of the city it was maybe 3/4 blocks away from the pier which is probably the most visited area on the map and people rob and get robbed all the time there. Soooo yea.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Tony Tetrazzini

[Tony Tetrazzini]

On 5/7/2021 at 9:22 PM, Bala said:

If you've had many situations where a hostage situation has gone south, what does that tell you?
Does it tell you that we're doing something wrong or that you are?

From the other side, hostage situations happen too often and are rarely executed with good role-play. It's either someone has got caught robbing a bank/store so they take their friend hostage or they expect that taking a hostage means they have some sort of invisible forcefield around them.

Maybe there are other roleplay servers that make hostage roleplay "fun and fair", but there might also be other roleplay servers that don't have a hostage situation every time a bank gets robbed. 

If I had my way, people would only take hostages if they have special roleplay permission to do so. You know.. so it's "fun and fair" for everyone.

Well both times I've taken someone hostage there has been good Roleplay until the cops just start shooting while your still holding a gun up to there head as seen in clip 1 and 2 but 2 is more my fault as I didn't know the cop was B chatting while roleplay was engaged and made that awkward situation. (Players are required to remain IC at all times. RP can only be paused or voided by admins.)  But all do respect 2 days in a row where the same situation happened where I'm pointing my gun at a cop and they coin flip there life. But I'm not doing this based on all police officers in Eclipse because there is really good ones but I just think a talk is needed to people in that faction to not coin flip a hostage life at gun point.

[HobGoblin]

6 minutes ago, Tony Tetrazzini said:

Well both times I've taken someone hostage there has been good Roleplay until the cops just start shooting while your still holding a gun up to there head as seen in clip 1 and 2 but 2 is more my fault as I didn't know the cop was B chatting while roleplay was engaged and made that awkward situation. (Players are required to remain IC at all times. RP can only be paused or voided by admins.)  But all do respect 2 days in a row where the same situation happened where I'm pointing my gun at a cop and they coin flip there life. But I'm not doing this based on all police officers in Eclipse because there is really good ones but I just think a talk is needed to people in that faction to not coin flip a hostage life at gun point.

You can make a report of rules were broken.  I have been in many hostage situations. A lot of the time the hostage takers are very unreasonable and want everything without anything in return. When there is good role play from BOTH sides hostage situation can be good.  Like the the Irish and Dark army robbed a jewellery store. 

[Tony Tetrazzini]

2 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

You can make a report of rules were broken.  I have been in many hostage situations. A lot of the time the hostage takers are very unreasonable and want everything without anything in return. When there is good role play from BOTH sides hostage situation can be good.  Like the the Irish and Dark army robbed a jewellery store. 

Yea I know. I reported the first clip but i was 2 hours over 48 hours so the report got denied which is understandable. Both of my hostage situations felt good and roleplay was good on both sides. First clip it was just so bad because it was only 2 cops one arresting my friend while the other was in his car talking to the mechanics. So i felt it was a even trade to hold the cop hostage that was arresting my friend everything went smooth but for some reason the mechanics were all pointing there gun at me with the cop which was weird. The second clip was all over the place alot of stuff went wrong with me letting the hostage i had walk away plus the cop b chatting ooc and not part taking in the roleplay. but its whatever i just wanted to shed some light on a situation that i had. Wanted to see if others felt the same way. Either way this discussion benefits everyone Good and bad

[Tony Tetrazzini]

Just now, Tony Tetrazzini said:

Yea I know. I reported the first clip but i was 2 hours over 48 hours so the report got denied which is understandable. Both of my hostage situations felt good and roleplay was good on both sides. First clip it was just so bad because it was only 2 cops one arresting my friend while the other was in his car talking to the mechanics. So i felt it was a even trade to hold the cop hostage that was arresting my friend everything went smooth but for some reason the mechanics were all pointing there gun at me with the cop which was weird. The second clip was all over the place alot of stuff went wrong with me letting the hostage i had walk away plus the cop b chatting ooc and not part taking in the roleplay. but its whatever i just wanted to shed some light on a situation that i had. Wanted to see if others felt the same way. Either way this discussion benefits everyone Good and bad

And no other cops pulled up either because i said to not use his radio. so it was a 2v2 the whole time unless your counting the mechanics who were roleplaying mechanics but were also cops as well which made no sense to me 

[Brant]

You're putting a lot of effort into generalizing two entire factions based on two scenarios you've been involved in. I can't speak for the first situation as I was not there, however I was there for the second situation.

You only upload what appears to be the last 3 minutes of a situation that lasted for at least half an hour. This video provides barely any context to what actually was going on which is disappointing. The officer you had at gunpoint was complying with you, we followed your requests and it seemed like we had a pretty great RP situation overall until the very end. I personally do not believe in using /b mid RP as it complicates things, weapons are lowered, and ultimately can cause everything to be super confusing which you can see here.

When you walked away from the Officer that you had at gunpoint, he was no longer under Fear RP as the firearm was no longer pointed at him. Instead, you turned and pointed your gun at another officer who had their gun trained on you which was the one using /b at the time. If you take a look at the server rules, you are still under Fear RP if an individual is typing because of GTA's mechanics and how you have to lower your firearm to type. This is what appears to be the confusing part for you and the other parties involved. That Officer had an SMG trained on you from the moment your hostage was turned over to us, even when you started to rotate your camera to now take that officer "hostage". 

In this situation, it's hard to tell based on your POV, but the officer wasn't under Fear RP because he had his firearm on you the entire time, regardless of where your original hostage was.

You asked everyone on scene to save POV because you wanted to file a forum report, posts like these are posts that create false perceptions and ultimately become super destructive rather than constructive. You were adamant on everyone saving POV regardless of the other officers trying to explain things to you in /b, so I'm not sure why you would be unwilling to talk to them when you came here to have a discussion about their actions.

At the end of the day, if you felt someone was breaking the rules, then you need to post a report so that way it can be looked at by staff members who can determine if it was wrong or right.

[Tony Tetrazzini]

21 minutes ago, Brant said:

You're putting a lot of effort into generalizing two entire factions based on two scenarios you've been involved in. I can't speak for the first situation as I was not there, however I was there for the second situation.

You only upload what appears to be the last 3 minutes of a situation that lasted for at least half an hour. This video provides barely any context to what actually was going on which is disappointing. The officer you had at gunpoint was complying with you, we followed your requests and it seemed like we had a pretty great RP situation overall until the very end. I personally do not believe in using /b mid RP as it complicates things, weapons are lowered, and ultimately can cause everything to be super confusing which you can see here.

When you walked away from the Officer that you had at gunpoint, he was no longer under Fear RP as the firearm was no longer pointed at him. Instead, you turned and pointed your gun at another officer who had their gun trained on you which was the one using /b at the time. If you take a look at the server rules, you are still under Fear RP if an individual is typing because of GTA's mechanics and how you have to lower your firearm to type. This is what appears to be the confusing part for you and the other parties involved. That Officer had an SMG trained on you from the moment your hostage was turned over to us, even when you started to rotate your camera to now take that officer "hostage". 

In this situation, it's hard to tell based on your POV, but the officer wasn't under Fear RP because he had his firearm on you the entire time, regardless of where your original hostage was.

You asked everyone on scene to save POV because you wanted to file a forum report, posts like these are posts that create false perceptions and ultimately become super destructive rather than constructive. You were adamant on everyone saving POV regardless of the other officers trying to explain things to you in /b, so I'm not sure why you would be unwilling to talk to them when you came here to have a discussion about their actions.

At the end of the day, if you felt someone was breaking the rules, then you need to post a report so that way it can be looked at by staff members who can determine if it was wrong or right.

Well if you were there then you would have the POV saved as i was asking them right? The cop B chatting mid RP is breaking rules. And how about the other cop B chatting to his other cop saying his gun isnt out like? just shitty RP by them and then i tell the cop to get in the car and then one of them tell him to get out of the car. The cops knew they fucked up too bc they were trying to get on my good side by not giving me as harsh charges as they could have. Either way ive talked to other people about this and they seem to side with me. Im the one just bringing it to light.

[Brant]

41 minutes ago, Tony Tetrazzini said:

Well if you were there then you would have the POV saved as i was asking them right? The cop B chatting mid RP is breaking rules. And how about the other cop B chatting to his other cop saying his gun isnt out like? just shitty RP by them and then i tell the cop to get in the car and then one of them tell him to get out of the car. The cops knew they fucked up too bc they were trying to get on my good side by not giving me as harsh charges as they could have. Either way ive talked to other people about this and they seem to side with me. Im the one just bringing it to light.

Correct, I do have POV. However, due to staff policies, I'm unable to show it as it has staff chat and reports visible. As for someone communicating in /b that a gun wasn't out, if you look closely at me (Tristan) in your POV, you will see that I was standing there normally where on my screen, I had an SMG out pointed at you the entire time. The individual communicating that in /b was letting me know I wasn't synced properly, and that I needed to quickly swap weapons so the weapon loaded properly.

This is my screen:

 

This is a screenshot from around the exact same time in your recording:




As you can see, I was glitched and not showing a firearm to you or anyone else, therefore he alerted me in /b as it would not have been fair if I shot at you without a weapon being visible.

Regardless, "I talked to other people and they side with me" is fine, but that really isn't a response that I would expect from someone trying to have a constructive conversation about Law Enforcement in-game. In reality, if you wanted to report this for whatever reason, you should have done so after the situation had concluded. Remember, not everything is as it seems, and in this case you can clearly see that.

At the end of the day, I have a countless number of interactions with players throughout the community every single day, and a majority of them are positive - even if it's in a shootout or hostage situation. I do not believe you are making a fair point here, especially with a 3 minute clip of a 30 minute scenario but at the end of the day, it's your choice. As long as the conversation remains constructive feel free to continue talking but understand there are elements at play that you, as the hostage taker, are not privy to.

Overall it was a pretty great situation.

[Jett_J]

Just an opinion from someone who is reading this thread:

I don't know why you are pulling a gun out on a sheriff in a really populated area especially when there is another sheriff in the car. It just isn't realistic you even had some bystander pointing a gun at you.

Also robbing people in the middle of the city is also not reasonable (I got an admin warning for attempting to rob someone at gun point on eclipse blvd)

[Jett_J]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:08 AM, Agg said:

I'm brand new to the server but from how you laid out your scenarios it sounds like you blatantly broke a bunch of rules:

1. The one you mentioned about pointing a gun and typing.
2. Intentionally submerging your vehicle (assuming you did it intentionally from the way you phrased it in your story). 
3. You aren't allowed to take another hostage for 1 OOC Week if police are involved, you said you did it again the day after.
4. Robbery in the middle of the city (the first bullet of rule 15)

Exactly.

Also pulling a gun on a sheriff when there are multiple armed people around and there is another sheriff with him.

Like he really just exposed himself breaking so many rules

[Tony Tetrazzini]

20 hours ago, Brant said:

Correct, I do have POV. However, due to staff policies, I'm unable to show it as it has staff chat and reports visible. As for someone communicating in /b that a gun wasn't out, if you look closely at me (Tristan) in your POV, you will see that I was standing there normally where on my screen, I had an SMG out pointed at you the entire time. The individual communicating that in /b was letting me know I wasn't synced properly, and that I needed to quickly swap weapons so the weapon loaded properly.

This is my screen:

 

This is a screenshot from around the exact same time in your recording:




As you can see, I was glitched and not showing a firearm to you or anyone else, therefore he alerted me in /b as it would not have been fair if I shot at you without a weapon being visible.

Regardless, "I talked to other people and they side with me" is fine, but that really isn't a response that I would expect from someone trying to have a constructive conversation about Law Enforcement in-game. In reality, if you wanted to report this for whatever reason, you should have done so after the situation had concluded. Remember, not everything is as it seems, and in this case you can clearly see that.

At the end of the day, I have a countless number of interactions with players throughout the community every single day, and a majority of them are positive - even if it's in a shootout or hostage situation. I do not believe you are making a fair point here, especially with a 3 minute clip of a 30 minute scenario but at the end of the day, it's your choice. As long as the conversation remains constructive feel free to continue talking but understand there are elements at play that you, as the hostage taker, are not privy to.

Overall it was a pretty great situation.

I totally understand where your coming from i never wanted to make this a big situation. The post was to see if others have had similar situations. Like i said before Roleplay in both cases were great until the very end. 

[Tony Tetrazzini]

9 hours ago, Jett_J said:

Just an opinion from someone who is reading this thread:

I don't know why you are pulling a gun out on a sheriff in a really populated area especially when there is another sheriff in the car. It just isn't realistic you even had some bystander pointing a gun at you.

Also robbing people in the middle of the city is also not reasonable (I got an admin warning for attempting to rob someone at gun point on eclipse blvd)

How isnt it realistic? People get robbed at all times of day IRL? The bystanders are Mechanics who are working there fixing cars but they stopped there roleplay job to be cops for some reason? No person who isnt law enforcement shouldnt even be aloud to pull there gun out on us. They should be fear RPing as a bystander and just watching what unfolds. What does it matter to if its a sheriff either he was arresting my friend left himself open while his partner was just chilling in the car. No other cops even came to the scene it was a 2 v 2 the whole time unless your counting the Mechanics 

[Tony Tetrazzini]

But Either way this isnt me trying to say every cop is terrible or quick to shoot just the ones i had encounters with in such a short time. Both Roleplays were mad fun. You can hear in my voice how nervous i was in the first clip AHAHAHA my heart was racing. 

[Agg]

1 hour ago, Tony Tetrazzini said:

How isnt it realistic? People get robbed at all times of day IRL? The bystanders are Mechanics who are working there fixing cars but they stopped there roleplay job to be cops for some reason? No person who isnt law enforcement shouldnt even be aloud to pull there gun out on us. They should be fear RPing as a bystander and just watching what unfolds. What does it matter to if its a sheriff either he was arresting my friend left himself open while his partner was just chilling in the car. No other cops even came to the scene it was a 2 v 2 the whole time unless your counting the Mechanics 

You're basically saying here it doesn't matter about any of the other factors that are going on; I pulled a gun first so I win, you all have to do what I want. That isn't good roleplaying, you're trying to play the rules to the letter to say that you "won" the situation. I don't know you and I can only judge you from what your complaints are and your responses to everyone pointing out the flaws in your logic - it seems that you care more about winning than actually roleplaying.

[Tony Tetrazzini]

Yes if anyone pulls a gun out first and puts them self in a advantage then yes you should have control of the situation. If I walk up to you in real life and pull a gun to your head I swear you would do anything I told you too. You have to roleplay fear which the cops did in both clips but the thing I'm complaining about is that when I'm still pointing the gun at there head they just say fuck FearRP. Clip one like I said 5 times now ONE officer was arresting my friend the other one was in his car not engaging in the RP at all. I come up point my gun at the officers head who was lacking and his other officer being lazy sitting in the car. So I put the officer in check he then has to comply with what my demands are bc I have the upper hand in this situation. For some odd reason the mechanics start to pull out there guns at me  while they had nothing to do with the situation, plus they are in mid work shift. While I'm still pointing the gun at the cops head his partner decides COIN FLIP HIS PARTNERS LIFE and shoots and kills me. That is the problem here. I've had conversations about stuff like this happening to other players and I feel like its worth bringing it up. You for some weird reason are trying to do you're best and point out other flaws in the clips which I'm actually ok with but.... The stuff you are pointing out doesn't matter for what I'm trying to get across. Both situations were good roleplay for both party's involved. What my argument is and what stands out the most in both clips is that the cops are shooting while one of there officers are still at gunpoint. Now Clip two is actually not good because the cop was pointing a gun at us but for some reason stopped mid roleplay to /B chat ooc and also alot of other factors too which and now that clip is not useable for my example. Clip one however is so bad after watching it there is no way you can not side with me on this? Its so bad. 

[Xoza]

Greetings,

In both situations you engaged with law enforcement, who can quickly overwhelm and outnumber you and are the hardest factions to engage with.

Due to the factions, higher moral and RP expectations, unlike any other engagements, they do analyze a situation to the fullest and don't pull the trigger right away, where others would, as soon as you aimed a firearm at a friend. Once you threaten / aim a weapon, you are liable to be DM'd by that players friends/faction.

In both videos, you were not fired upon without negotiation or question and you were given the time to play out a scenario despite counting 3+ opportunities where an officer could have easily taken the shot. There was 1.5 - 3 minutes allowance (which is a lot of time in these situations) for your RP and before an officer fired the first shot.

I don't see how, in any way the law enforcement here were 'too trigger happy' in both situations. The situation actually looked to be decent from my analysis but not every situation is perfect.

Thanks.

[TheWanderersWay]

16 hours ago, Tony Tetrazzini said:

How isnt it realistic? People get robbed at all times of day IRL? The bystanders are Mechanics who are working there fixing cars but they stopped there roleplay job to be cops for some reason? No person who isnt law enforcement shouldnt even be aloud to pull there gun out on us. They should be fear RPing as a bystander and just watching what unfolds. What does it matter to if its a sheriff either he was arresting my friend left himself open while his partner was just chilling in the car. No other cops even came to the scene it was a 2 v 2 the whole time unless your counting the Mechanics 

So bystanders aren't allowed to help people out. Crime automatically makes people incompetent and unable to act? Its the way of the world, my guy, some people do freeze in fear, some run away, but others will actively go after a threat in order to protect themselves and others. Additionally, why wouldn't the mechanics respond to a crime being committed on THEIR property, why would they let that go. 

[Agg]

9 hours ago, Tony Tetrazzini said:

Yes if anyone pulls a gun out first and puts them self in a advantage then yes you should have control of the situation. If I walk up to you in real life and pull a gun to your head I swear you would do anything I told you too. You have to roleplay fear which the cops did in both clips but the thing I'm complaining about is that when I'm still pointing the gun at there head they just say fuck FearRP. Clip one like I said 5 times now ONE officer was arresting my friend the other one was in his car not engaging in the RP at all. I come up point my gun at the officers head who was lacking and his other officer being lazy sitting in the car. So I put the officer in check he then has to comply with what my demands are bc I have the upper hand in this situation. For some odd reason the mechanics start to pull out there guns at me  while they had nothing to do with the situation, plus they are in mid work shift. While I'm still pointing the gun at the cops head his partner decides COIN FLIP HIS PARTNERS LIFE and shoots and kills me. That is the problem here. I've had conversations about stuff like this happening to other players and I feel like its worth bringing it up. You for some weird reason are trying to do you're best and point out other flaws in the clips which I'm actually ok with but.... The stuff you are pointing out doesn't matter for what I'm trying to get across. Both situations were good roleplay for both party's involved. What my argument is and what stands out the most in both clips is that the cops are shooting while one of there officers are still at gunpoint. Now Clip two is actually not good because the cop was pointing a gun at us but for some reason stopped mid roleplay to /B chat ooc and also alot of other factors too which and now that clip is not useable for my example. Clip one however is so bad after watching it there is no way you can not side with me on this? Its so bad. 

You pulled a gun on the officer. The officer reacted appropriately to having a gun pulled on them.

You also said that "No person who isnt law enforcement shouldnt even be aloud to pull there gun out on us. They should be fear RPing as a bystander and just watching what unfolds." . If you were in a situation where every other person didn't have guns this would make sense - your video has sort of that reaction from some players such as the EMTs turn and run back to their vans when they realize what's happening. If my character was there, he would have ran away or hid because he doesn't have a gun. In Los Santos a lot of people have guns and you pulled a gun on a police officer without knowing how many people there had guns and your friend being in handcuffs. There is no possible way for you to maintain complete control of that situation. How did you show appropriate care for your character's life and safety by pulling a gun in that situation?

[Agg]

My last post I'll make on this since we're all going around in circles. Like I said initially I'm new to GTA RPing so I don't have a lot of hours online just due to when I've been available to play but I've been able to poke around the forums and read reports and complaints that people post. I think the best way I can think of to sum up my points is that just because you haven't broken any rules (even though you did) doesn't mean that your RP is good enough. I read the rules as the baseline for the expectations, breaking them is bad but strictly obeying them doesn't equal good RP.

Pulling from your last post for example, you mentioned that "one was in his car not engaging in the RP at all" - this is you making a determination as that something is safe for strictly on a player level, you're treating the other cop as out of play on a player level but from your characters perspective there are two cops there and you need to make the determination based on that second cop being someone who could drop you, in addition to the other people who were there who had guns.