Body Cam RP

[Speed Racer]

This discussion is based on the recent ruling in this report: 

I want to start by saying this discussion is not about the access to cloud storage without RP approval, but about the other language in the decision. According to this decision, one must have RP proof of having a body cam on their person period (purchasing, carrying, etc.). Furthermore, according to the rules on Powergaming - 

• Players must capture time stamped evidence performing RP that will potentially influence future interactions and evidence is only valid for 48 hours, death, or until others RP invalidates it.

Following both of these points, this implies that players must RP buying a body cam every two days, on top of RPing turning it on every time they log in (this latter part is not new).

Am I reading into this properly? If so, will LEOs start enforcing this extra bit of RP (purchasing a bodycam in the last 48 hours) when filing IAs or accepting evidence for crime reports? Because I've never been asked for that proof... And is this worth a rule suggestion for an exception to the purchasing aspect of this?

[CalvinKlein]

it's honestly confusing man... that I can tell you

[cheatonus]

Ya as the rule is written you would have to buy a new bodycam every 2 IRL days. Unless you're PD, I think they consider body cam as part of their uniform loadout. Maybe it would be nice to have a bodycam object that can be purchased from stores, even if it doesn't actually do anything. Also keep in mind you have your phone and the /record command to RP recording as well. 

[alexalex303]

To be fair, it does seem to be a bit questionable to be wearing a bodycamera as a gang member. I think you would struggle to find a career criminal in the hood going around with a bodycamera on his person. If anything, they'd be shot for it. It's mainly cops and civilians that wear them. I'm not against people having to do some extra work if they wish to wear them, except when it makes sense to be provided by an employer (including DCC, Weazel, etc)

 

[CalvinKlein]

14 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

To be fair, it does seem to be a bit questionable to be wearing a bodycamera as a gang member. I think you would struggle to find a career criminal in the hood going around with a bodycamera on his person. If anything, they'd be shot for it. It's mainly cops and civilians that wear them. I'm not against people having to do some extra work if they wish to wear them, except when it makes sense to be provided by an employer (including DCC, Weazel, etc)

 

It's called being smart and choosing IC methods to counter certain IC acts, since there's OOC rules on our end to stop us from performing certain actions, and IC measures such as IA and bodycam are the only counter to prevent the abuse of power (ICly) from police and be able to properly roleplay as criminals since we're searched and pulled over daily while going 80 kmph and following traffic rules because we RP as criminals.

 

Specially when sometimes based on the written rules we'd have DM rights and still get reported by DM for shooting or defending ourselves to avoid arrests.

 

I agree that it does not make a lot of sense to walk around with bodycam, but it makes less sense to go to prison constantly and get stacked with charges and spend hours of OOC time in prison, specially when there's no real "rights" or court system IC, and the IC options are limited to 1. Surrender 2. Accept misconducts and just take it and say "it is what it is " 3. Escape and risk higher charges for exchange of a slight chance of freedom 4. Resolving with IA reports to stop misconduct. 4. Last but not least, shoot a cop or hold him up knowing he's trying to arrest you and risk getting a DM / NonRP report against you.

 

Robbing people in public and the risk reward factor should be an IC thing and always was, as everyone's character can determine what's worth it and what's not when it comes to that, however there's OOC restrictions on it, but there isn't for PD as all the issues are "IC issues" and they have an IA system for that, so you can't complain about criminals using bodycam to report you IC when every OOC rule stands in the way of potential escapes and I get it, that's there to promote roleplay, certain people roleplay questionable things, so you need to respond with questionable thing to adapt and counter their actions, however I don't think anyone can dictate anyone's roleplay and people have the freedom to roleplay their characters as they wish, as long as its in accordance with the server's rules.

Edited January 19, 2021 by CalvinKlein

[Jleoni]

Set more consistent rules around what it can and cannot do

(the 'cloud' should not be a thing IMO)

 

[CalvinKlein]

2 minutes ago, Jleoni said:

Set more consistent rules around what it can and cannot do

(the 'cloud' should not be a thing IMO)

 

I personally only used the "Cloud" after seeing people within PD roleplay that, so I was never under the impression that it's alt RP but I agree, there has to be more consistent rules explaining it

[apologisemeow]

20 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

To be fair, it does seem to be a bit questionable to be wearing a bodycamera as a gang member. I think you would struggle to find a career criminal in the hood going around with a bodycamera on his person. If anything, they'd be shot for it. It's mainly cops and civilians that wear them. I'm not against people having to do some extra work if they wish to wear them, except when it makes sense to be provided by an employer (including DCC, Weazel, etc)

 

This wouldn't be an issue if all cops were required to capture all arrests they did on duty, something that's simply not possible and would clog up peoples hard drives very quickly, so it's only left up to us to make sure we don't get fucked over IC by cops giving out wrongful charges, many times i have been arrested and was not told what i was being charged with only finding out after being released from prison that i was hit with false charge.

Another good reason to wear bodycam is cops will always take another cops word for what had happened, i was once arrested for minding my own business when a guy crashes into my stationary vehicle, words were exchanged between us, i proceeded to step out from my vehicle the guy flees and flags down a passing cop car he claimed i pulled a gun it was lies, but that was all the deputy needed his word no evidence to back up his claims, the guy just happened to be an off duty cop so he's got to be telling the truth right! 

While it doesn't really make much sense criminals having bodycam, it's the only tool we have to combat corrupted officials and wrongful imprisonment.   

[Speed Racer]

49 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

To be fair, it does seem to be a bit questionable to be wearing a bodycamera as a gang member. I think you would struggle to find a career criminal in the hood going around with a bodycamera on his person. If anything, they'd be shot for it. It's mainly cops and civilians that wear them. I'm not against people having to do some extra work if they wish to wear them, except when it makes sense to be provided by an employer (including DCC, Weazel, etc)

 

Not trying to make this a crim/PD thing in the slightest since I don't have a character in either realm, just genuinely looking for a clarification on the rules here. It doesn't make sense to have disposable body cameras that only last 48 hours, but according to the rulebook and this recent warning it sounds like that's how we have to RP if want to use a body camera. It would make a lot more sense to RP buying a body cam once, save the evidence of it, then only be forced to do that RP again if you die or there is RP evidence of someone else removing it from you.

This is the first time I've seen the use of a body cam being referred to as asspulling so I'm really just looking to clarify if this is a new precedent being set or if people have been treating it too lax in the past, and if I will need to provide evidence of purchase within the last OOC 48hrs of a body cam when submitting IA reports in the future (accompanied by the regular requirements of proof of turning it on every time you log in).

[Cyrus Raven]

Without making any judgement towards the report that is cited, I have to say this is the first time I see this rule interpreted this way. To further explain:

 

- Usually RP of putting a bodycam on and turning it on (with screenshot proof + /time) is sufficient 

- Of all the situations I have been involved as PD/SD or CIV, no one has ever asked me about proof of purchase or carrying a bodycam.

 

As such, I suggest the following temporary solution.

 

- Allow RP of purchasing a bodycam to be valid past the 48 hour mark, only enforcing whether the bodycam was put on and turned on within 48 hours. This would mean people have one screenshot of when they bought the bodycam and then screenshots every 48 hours of when they decide to use it, etc...

 

 

The long-term suggestion would be the following:
 

Make a slot dedicated to the bodycam in the inventory and a bodycam item purchasable in 24/7s, then people no longer need to worry about RP'ly purchasing a bodycam every 48 hours (Let's be honest, how realistic is it to buy a new bodycam every 2 days).

This is also a bonus for law enforcement. Have you ever detained someone suspected of a crime, but need that little sliver of evidence ? Well, now you can easily check with /frisk if they have a bodycam on and use that towards your investigative RP. (Assuming PC is reached and warrant is aquired)

As for Civilians/Criminals, the choice would then be yours as to whether you want to carry a bodycam, but perhaps risk it capturing stuff you don't want to be seen. 

As for the bodycam object itself, you would be able to right click it and a few options would be present:

- Turn on/off: Allowing people to have a bodycam, but not actively be recording unless they turn it on scritply.

- Check Bodycam: Prints a chat message telling whoever is checking the bodycam if it is recording and if it is on how long it has been recording for

- Save Footage: Print out a chat message claiming footage from XX:XX UTC to YY:YY UTC has been saved onto an SD card (then give the player an SD card item like the 24/7)

- Smash: Like radios, you would be able to destroy a bodycam

[Ultra3D]

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

To be fair, it does seem to be a bit questionable to be wearing a bodycamera as a gang member. I think you would struggle to find a career criminal in the hood going around with a bodycamera on his person. If anything, they'd be shot for it. It's mainly cops and civilians that wear them. I'm not against people having to do some extra work if they wish to wear them, except when it makes sense to be provided by an employer (including DCC, Weazel, etc)

 

Yes I 100% agree, When I do my recording RP I never use bodycam because for a criminal if caught you are beat with your own evidence, I use dashcam RP that has loop deleting build into the RP. Which should be allowed, and allong with this

 

5 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

The long-term suggestion would be the following:

 

Make a slot dedicated to the bodycam in the inventory and a bodycam item purchasable in 24/7s, then people no longer need to worry about RP'ly purchasing a bodycam every 48 hours (Let's be honest, how realistic is it to buy a new bodycam every 2 days).

 

It should be made that way, either add a physical ingame item its non RP to need to buy one every 2 days. I use a dash cam IRL and it was 20$ and has lasted me nearly 2 years.

[apologisemeow]

2 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

Without making any judgement towards the report that is cited, I have to say this is the first time I see this rule interpreted this way. To further explain:

 

- Usually RP of putting a bodycam on and turning it on (with screenshot proof + /time) is sufficient 

- Of all the situations I have been involved as PD/SD or CIV, no one has ever asked me about proof of purchase or carrying a bodycam.

 

As such, I suggest the following temporary solution.

 

- Allow RP of purchasing a bodycam to be valid past the 48 hour mark, only enforcing whether the bodycam was put on and turned on within 48 hours. This would mean people have one screenshot of when they bought the bodycam and then screenshots every 48 hours of when they decide to use it, etc...

 

 

The long-term suggestion would be the following:
 

Make a slot dedicated to the bodycam in the inventory and a bodycam item purchasable in 24/7s, then people no longer need to worry about RP'ly purchasing a bodycam every 48 hours (Let's be honest, how realistic is it to buy a new bodycam every 2 days).

This is also a bonus for law enforcement. Have you ever detained someone suspected of a crime, but need that little sliver of evidence ? Well, now you can easily check with /frisk if they have a bodycam on and use that towards your investigative RP. (Assuming PC is reached and warrant is aquired)

As for Civilians/Criminals, the choice would then be yours as to whether you want to carry a bodycam, but perhaps risk it capturing stuff you don't want to be seen. 

As for the bodycam object itself, you would be able to right click it and a few options would be present:

- Turn on/off: Allowing people to have a bodycam, but not actively be recording unless they turn it on scritply.

- Check Bodycam: Prints a chat message telling whoever is checking the bodycam if it is recording and if it is on how long it has been recording for

- Save Footage: Print out a chat message claiming footage from XX:XX UTC to YY:YY UTC has been saved onto an SD card (then give the player an SD card item like the 24/7)

- Smash: Like radios, you would be able to destroy a bodycam

This would be perfect it gets really tedious buying multiple bodycams just how it was when we had to RP gloves, hope this can be implemented as it could provide more in depth RP.

[Speed Racer]

8 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

Without making any judgement towards the report that is cited, I have to say this is the first time I see this rule interpreted this way. To further explain:

 

- Usually RP of putting a bodycam on and turning it on (with screenshot proof + /time) is sufficient 

- Of all the situations I have been involved as PD/SD or CIV, no one has ever asked me about proof of purchase or carrying a bodycam.

 

As such, I suggest the following temporary solution.

 

- Allow RP of purchasing a bodycam to be valid past the 48 hour mark, only enforcing whether the bodycam was put on and turned on within 48 hours. This would mean people have one screenshot of when they bought the bodycam and then screenshots every 48 hours of when they decide to use it, etc...

 

 

The long-term suggestion would be the following:
 

Make a slot dedicated to the bodycam in the inventory and a bodycam item purchasable in 24/7s, then people no longer need to worry about RP'ly purchasing a bodycam every 48 hours (Let's be honest, how realistic is it to buy a new bodycam every 2 days).

This is also a bonus for law enforcement. Have you ever detained someone suspected of a crime, but need that little sliver of evidence ? Well, now you can easily check with /frisk if they have a bodycam on and use that towards your investigative RP. (Assuming PC is reached and warrant is aquired)

As for Civilians/Criminals, the choice would then be yours as to whether you want to carry a bodycam, but perhaps risk it capturing stuff you don't want to be seen. 

As for the bodycam object itself, you would be able to right click it and a few options would be present:

- Turn on/off: Allowing people to have a bodycam, but not actively be recording unless they turn it on scritply.

- Check Bodycam: Prints a chat message telling whoever is checking the bodycam if it is recording and if it is on how long it has been recording for

- Save Footage: Print out a chat message claiming footage from XX:XX UTC to YY:YY UTC has been saved onto an SD card (then give the player an SD card item like the 24/7)

- Smash: Like radios, you would be able to destroy a bodycam

I think this is a great idea for a rule/game suggestion post if this is truly the direction that staff want bodycam RP to go, but I'm still not convinced that we are reading into this rule the proper way yet. Best bet might just be to see where the decision appeal on this report goes before thinking of suggestions for this.

[Vigil]

I will admit that as a civilian, my character never considered wearing bodycam until she was icly told to multiple times by police.

I have been rping however that her recording uploads to the cloud since that is a very standard method nowadays and has been available as an automatic feature from GoPro since 2019, but I also include her confirming via a phone or computer which would allow anyone the ability to delete her recording through those means as well giving the same ability as an SD card.

[Drizzy.]

4 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

This discussion is based on the recent ruling in this report: 

I want to start by saying this discussion is not about the access to cloud storage without RP approval, but about the other language in the decision. According to this decision, one must have RP proof of having a body cam on their person period (purchasing, carrying, etc.). Furthermore, according to the rules on Powergaming - 

• Players must capture time stamped evidence performing RP that will potentially influence future interactions and evidence is only valid for 48 hours, death, or until others RP invalidates it.

Following both of these points, this implies that players must RP buying a body cam every two days, on top of RPing turning it on every time they log in (this latter part is not new).

Am I reading into this properly? If so, will LEOs start enforcing this extra bit of RP (purchasing a bodycam in the last 48 hours) when filing IAs or accepting evidence for crime reports? Because I've never been asked for that proof... And is this worth a rule suggestion for an exception to the purchasing aspect of this?

You don't need to roleplay purchasing a bodycam every 24 hours-48 hours. That would be nonsensical. The idea is at one point you purchased it or received it from someone who purchased it. Then you maintain it i.e keep it with you, charge it etc. Then when you need to use it you then can roleplay switching it on due to the fact you actually have one as opposed to plucking one out of thin air. We currently do allowe some evidence without timestamps as long as we can prove it was done within the 48 hours or up until death. 

LEO's as previously mentioned always or should always be roleplaying the use of taking it out their lockers, switching them on before each shift and end of each shift. If they do not do this, the recording they may have are unusable. So if a cop isn't able to use their footage for example if they don't roleplay it, why would it be different for others?

I hope it gave you some understanding on this topic, if you have further questions in regards to current status of roleplay you can ask ingame or I have a question.

[Jleoni]

15 minutes ago, Mod Drizzy said:

You don't need to roleplay purchasing a bodycam every 24 hours-48 hours. That would be nonsensical. The idea is at one point you purchased it or received it from someone who purchased it. Then you maintain it i.e keep it with you, charge it etc. Then when you need to use it you then can roleplay switching it on due to the fact you actually have one as opposed to plucking one out of thin air. We currently do allowe some evidence without timestamps as long as we can prove it was done within the 48 hours or up until death. 

LEO's as previously mentioned always or should always be roleplaying the use of taking it out their lockers, switching them on before each shift and end of each shift. If they do not do this, the recording they may have are unusable. So if a cop isn't able to use their footage for example if they don't roleplay it, why would it be different for others?

I hope it gave you some understanding on this topic, if you have further questions in regards to current status of roleplay you can ask ingame or I have a question.

Are we allowed to OOCLY ask PD for proof of this (them taking it out of their locker and turning it on)?

How about PD/Gov vehicle 'dashcams'?

[Swittzy]

12 minutes ago, Jleoni said:

Are we allowed to OOCLY ask PD for proof of this (them taking it out of their locker and turning it on)?

How about PD/Gov vehicle 'dashcams'?

Any sort of Body Camera should be roleplayed for it to be considered IC.  You are allowed to ask for proof if they want to RP "saving" the footage. If they can't provide it, the RP would then be void.
Same thing for the vehicle dashcams, it HAS to be roleplayed that the camera is being turned on.

[Felcon]

Damn crims really be worrying about bodycams

[Jleoni]

Just now, Felcon said:

Damn crims really be worrying about bodycams

Without a judicial system it's literally the only protection crims/civs have?

[CalvinKlein]

5 hours ago, Felcon said:

Damn crims really be worrying about bodycams

You filed IA reports and used to do bodycam RP frequently on Keavin_Kong lmao

[alexalex303]

3 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

You filed IA reports and used to do bodycam RP frequently on Keavin_Kong lmao

I think a good amount of people did it in the past, however, that doesn't make it great or something to aspire towards. At one point WCA was robbing people at gas stations, but if I supported the public robbery rule, you would find that a good argument against it? You can support a better standard, even if you were part of the problem, because you want (or should want) things to improve, and not stay the same forever. I think if we're moving forward towards more realistic RP, and advocate for it (such as what you self-identified as), a gang banger with a bodycamera and a sharp pen makes absolutely no sense.

[Felcon]

1 hour ago, CalvinKlein said:

You filed IA reports and used to do bodycam RP frequently on Keavin_Kong lmao

Yes I used to file IA reports. No I never RPrd putting on bodycam. I stopped IAing because I realized how bullshit it actually is to IA a cop being a known cop killer/ gang affiliated. 
 

just ask yourself the question. Would a gang member that shoots cops daily/ does criminal activities use bodycam. I don’t think so

[Cyrus Raven]

4 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I think a good amount of people did it in the past, however, that doesn't make it great or something to aspire towards. At one point WCA was robbing people at gas stations, but if I supported the public robbery rule, you would find that a good argument against it? You can support a better standard, even if you were part of the problem, because you want (or should want) things to improve, and not stay the same forever. I think if we're moving forward towards more realistic RP, and advocate for it (such as what you self-identified as), a gang banger with a bodycamera and a sharp pen makes absolutely no sense.

I agree, but people also adapt to whatever circumstances they find themselves in. If most criminals think the only way to fight Police Injustice is through IA, given they can't just drive-by the arresting Officer after without breaching DM, then I think that's ok to an extent, keeping in mind these sort of things can backfire on them (if someone chooses to check the bodycam for other crimes). I'm assuming the upcoming Justice System will try and fix this by allowing these same people a legal recourse.

[Speed Racer]

4 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I think if we're moving forward towards more realistic RP, and advocate for it (such as what you self-identified as), a gang banger with a bodycamera and a sharp pen makes absolutely no sense.

As long as a cop's word is evidence enough to be the sole cause of someone going to prison for multiple hours, I don't think we really have a place to judge crims for how they choose to counteract that. It's all IC.

[CalvinKlein]

5 hours ago, Felcon said:

Yes I used to file IA reports. No I never RPrd putting on bodycam. I stopped IAing because I realized how bullshit it actually is to IA a cop being a known cop killer/ gang affiliated. 
 

just ask yourself the question. Would a gang member that shoots cops daily/ does criminal activities use bodycam. I don’t think so

I’ve literally witnessed it but okay.. I mean I barely see u play crim at all so idk, and not every gang member is a “daily cop killer “ I did kill some cops on my character indeed but have barely to no murder / attempted / accessory; neither to a gov employee or a regular one as I’ve never been caught, and with the way how the law in the server is used to fuck you over and your rights meaning almost nothing; and getting DM reports for shooting when you’re clearly going to get arrested, IA is your smartest choice specially when it’s the PD members promoting it ; “my badge is xxxx, File an IA haha” as far as I know you’re labeled as an active criminal when you’re committing crimes, you serve your time and come out of DOC and you’re considered a civilian untel you’re caught committing more crimes, but when you leave doc and get pulled over and searched while going 80kmph and having 2 supers ; 1 x day , 1 kamacho , and 9 cruisers, you complain on forums and it’s an “IC issue” so people are forced into doing unreasonable acts as a measure to slightly attempt to counteract more questionable acts, no one wants to play a game where they’re forced to afk for tons of OOC hours back to back constantly or sit and get rdmed inside.