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Kjaer

Removal of LIVE footage of stores from off-site.

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Hi,

really find it a hard to swallow fact that /all/ the sores in los santos area have managed to set up a direct live feed to PD and SD, and that those officers realistically sit and check the what would be hundreds of stores and gas stations feeding their environment live. This would never happen irl, CCTV is a closed circuit system, not sure why it's being transmitted up to Paleto and over to mission row. Officers should have to enter the store, and go into each of the back rooms where the CCTV equipment is actually kept and wired to.

I am told the cameras will also soon be added to Fleeca. While I agree with the cameras being added, I believe the "live" viewing from laptops feature is not very good rp and just leads to cops sitting on a laptop waiting for someone to rob stores (or soon banks). Could set up some more more interesting RP with undercover stakeouts and setups rather than relying on what is, in my opinion, unrp script usage.

I myself do not frequently rob stores or banks, but whenever I do hear about them in-game the majority of time that they are intercepted it's because police officers apparently scroll through "hundreds" of shops of video and saw a robbery taking place.

Please let me know what you guys think of this. (I also have a thread adding more usage to the Fleeca banks to make them a more integrated, natural part of the city for civillians and crims check it out).

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You can only view the recording if you're physically standing at the camera.  The camera's wires can also be cut to destroy the evidence.

Otherwise it's a live feed, and an officer has to be standing at the station looking at it (which, let's be honest, very few officers do as many people come into Mission Row and complain they can't find an officer).  There's only two locations you can do this as far as I know: at Mission Row and in Paleto Station.  You also have to be looking at the right camera.  I admit it's a powerful way to find people robbing stores, but the reality is most officers don't want to be standing around jerking off at the CCTV monitor when they could be out in the field roleplaying.

I'd say out of all the stores police intercept while it's in progress, only about 5-10% of those we know about from cameras at most, and that's because there were other robberies earlier which prompted an officer to sit there looking for another one.

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I'll be honest, in a more realistic setup I'd absolutely agree with you.
But then you have to consider how many of these stores would continue trading when they get robbed of their cash on a daily basis or how many banks?

If you can rob as many stores as you want, whenever you want, you gotta take the rough with the smooth.

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On 12/19/2020 at 5:06 PM, Victor Einhart said:

 but the reality is most officers don't want to be standing around jerking off at the CCTV monitor when they could be out in the field roleplaying.

This is exactly my point, there shouldn't even /be/ this option, it allows lazy roleplay from one end that detrimentally affects the other players (crim) roleplay. If store alarms are going off, PD should be setting up stings and undercover operations to try to intercept and prevent the robberies instead of just waiting for them to happen in front of a live feed, or waiting to see if any cameras arent functioning which would mean they're being robbed (kind of meta, since cameras could fail for many reasons on such a expansive city wide CCTV system).

What I suggest is that PD gains live&recorded footage of what PD deems major/high risk/high flow intersections where CCTV will be installed and set up. This allows for real time reporting on chases, and allows some more investigative RP for detectives (review general traffic of area, suspects fleeing, etc) while still being realistic (most city's have this kind of police camera system set up) and possibly WITH these CCTV points we can set up shot spotters on some violent areas (such the kind that Chicago makes use of).

 

Quote

But then you have to consider how many of these stores would continue trading when they get robbed of their cash on a daily basis or how many banks?

I agree with this as well, stores if possible should actually keep track of their register and when purchases are made it'll add to the register and when its robbed it will empty the register, if the store happens to not get robbed for a good duration and a long amount of funds have built up maybe it should be moved to a safe in the back rooms of the stores and broken into with a drill (I think maybe stores should gain a "passive income" to ONLY the register if this system is implemented. This is to facilitate what would be the 1000's of other citizens of los santos buying from the stores instead of just Player Characters as their may be some economical issues that this idea would bring.

I also have a suggestion where Fleeca Banks could be used by players to retrieve salary into cash at a high % rate, IF this is put into motion Fleeca banks could start with a defined amount, and after withdrawals or robberies this amount would get deducted from.

I am ALL for adding more realism into criminal and PD RP to make this a more immersive experience for all of us.

Edited by Kjaer
Additional reasoning w/ Bala
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@Kjaer From my perspective as I roleplay in LSPD.

Really find it a hard to swallow fact that you often see, 4 lookouts with drags and 6 people robbing a 24/7 with AK-47's micro SMG's with silencers, exmags, while outside they have 4 supercars.   So, they use a total of $20.000.000 equipment [cars/guns/ammo/attachments] to make 12k

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12 minutes ago, Papadakis said:

@Kjaer From my perspective as I roleplay in LSPD.

Really find it a hard to swallow fact that you often see, 4 lookouts with drags and 6 people robbing a 24/7 with AK-47's micro SMG's with silencers, exmags, while outside they have 4 supercars.   So, they use a total of $20.000.000 equipment [cars/guns/ammo/attachments] to make 12k

Seems like you have a problem with certain players not following risk vs reward. This has nothing to do with this suggestion. All store robberies I've seen conducted are usually with a single pistol and 2-3 vehicles.

Lets try to keep this thread productive instead of talking about potential rulebreaks in here.

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14 minutes ago, Kjaer said:

Seems like you have a problem with certain players not following risk vs reward. This has nothing to do with this suggestion. All store robberies I've seen conducted are usually with a single pistol and 2-3 vehicles.

Lets try to keep this thread productive instead of talking about potential rulebreaks in here.

Seems like you just want to change how the CCTV works because you got arrested by CCTV.

-1 from me.

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34 minutes ago, Papadakis said:

Seems like you just want to change how the CCTV works because you got arrested by CCTV.

-1 from me.

 

1 hour ago, Papadakis said:

@Kjaer From my perspective as I roleplay in LSPD.

Really find it a hard to swallow fact that you often see, 4 lookouts with drags and 6 people robbing a 24/7 with AK-47's micro SMG's with silencers, exmags, while outside they have 4 supercars.   So, they use a total of $20.000.000 equipment [cars/guns/ammo/attachments] to make 12k

I've been part of numerous robberies and never have I seen a situation anywhere close to what you are describing.

 

Crims are using drags to easily get away and that's fair play to them. When you have LSPD with over 150 members + SD with close to 70, you want to get away as fast as possible because there will be 15 cruisers ready and waiting just to get on the chase.

 

CCTV is giving an unfair advantage and yes, PD doesn't sit at MR or SD waiting for a robbery to happen. But when one does happen, they are out there behind the screen.

 

I don't feel a law enforcement group consisting of over 200 members need this kind power when official gangs are artificially limited to 40.

Crim RP is being nerfed on every major server changelogs and it came to a point where there's nothing to gain being a crim really, when you could sit at a legal job doing a fair bit less amount of work and still get more money in the long run than someone's that's sometimes risking more 150k for virtually close to no immediate monetary gain.

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Most of the times we get alerted because someone cut the wires and we check on the store to see what's wrong and fix them. If this system would not be in place, we would physically check the cameras to make sure they are working because let's be honest: if there's no cameras, there's no suspects. I really don't mind to have it changed in a way that PD cannot watch live footage but if you cut the wires without holding the clerk at gunpoint, he will alert police (and you can still watch the footage from before the wires got cut, since it would all be saved in some data storage that is secured in the back room).

For banks however it would make sense to be able to see the live footage because usually there is no storage unit inside the banks (unless it's one of those old ones, maybe in the middle of the desert like the Route68 one). The footage would be broadcasted and saved in a location far away from the actual bank.

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12 hours ago, TheCactus said:

Most of the times we get alerted because someone cut the wires and we check on the store to see what's wrong and fix them. If this system would not be in place, we would physically check the cameras to make sure they are working because let's be honest: if there's no cameras, there's no suspects. I really don't mind to have it changed in a way that PD cannot watch live footage but if you cut the wires without holding the clerk at gunpoint, he will alert police (and you can still watch the footage from before the wires got cut, since it would all be saved in some data storage that is secured in the back room).

For banks however it would make sense to be able to see the live footage because usually there is no storage unit inside the banks (unless it's one of those old ones, maybe in the middle of the desert like the Route68 one). The footage would be broadcasted and saved in a location far away from the actual bank.

Interesting. Personally I didn't know the alert on wire cut existed. the clerk should definitely hit his silent alarm if he sees such activity, but if his hands are up (at gunpoint) I think you are also right that it should block this attempt. This means store robberies should be properly staged to prevent people being ID'd by the camera before its cut. Thanks for constructively adding some content to the post. and +1 to your bank suggestions, adds some more interesting choices on what Fleeca bank to choose.

16 hours ago, Papadakis said:

Seems like you just want to change how the CCTV works because you got arrested by CCTV.

-1 from me.

Okay then. Thanks for contributing.

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I understand what the dev team were trying to do when they were implementing it, but like I said in my suggestion thread, it doesn't really make enough sense to justify it being in the server with how it is used.

For me, the best use of the cameras would be to provide more RP information about the incident, when RP is done after the robbery to find out what happened.

Cop 1 is spectating the store get robbed. In that moment, he would be alternative role-playing as the camera itself, not as his player.
Cop 2 has detained a criminal for robbing the store and checks the CCTV.

Cop 1 could /ldo Cop 2 information of what the CCTV camera saw.
If Cop 1 records the footage, then even better.

You are not just relying on the crims /ldo then, you can get more of a picture so to speak of what happened.

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I think that the idea of a /do like message saying *There would be a red light on* or something while being watched wouldn't be the worst idea. Cops can still flip through the different cameras and you are still at risk of getting caught. There really aren't that many stores to watch when split between two officers watching.

 

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I'm going to go ahead and hop onboard with the idea of a red light being on and people being aware of this. It would be the middle ground that would offer the compromise. Realistically speaking it is very true that every store wouldn't have a camera feed directly to law enforcement but to compromise with the server that is how it works. Adding the additional red light notification wouldn't be detrimental in the slightest in my opinion and if anything only serve to even the playing field a bit more. I will say that I'm not the biggest fan in general about the CCTV due to the fact that it is unbalanced and every cut wire on the feed automatically means a robbery even though realistically it could mean so many other things such as camera maintenance or a power outage but that's a conversation for another day. Now, that said, I'm not sure how one would go about translating this (red light or a /do) into the server script wise but if possible it's not a half bad idea.

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7 hours ago, Aldarine said:

Now, that said, I'm not sure how one would go about translating this (red light or a /do) into the server script wise but if possible it's not a half bad idea.

One possibility:

Obviously the cameras have positions stored that are accessible. I haven't looked into rage development much, but I don't see why you couldn't put a message like our above head ones at a certain position relative to a camera. Who knows might not be possible that way.

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If you want to be realistic, the NPC would hit the alarm the moment you brandish the firearm without aiming. The store owners should pay to upgrade security, even paying for their NPC to own a weapon and shoot back,  or even pay 500k for the NPC to lock the thieves inside the store. If such things existed there would be no need for police to spectate cameras.  The majority enters the store masked with guns out and walk around deciding who will aim and who will grab cash like the NPC doesn't see you getting ready to rob him. If it was a real cashier he'd lock the store till you remove your masks. 

Edited by Papadakis
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On 12/22/2020 at 9:40 AM, Papadakis said:

@Kjaer From my perspective as I roleplay in LSPD.

Really find it a hard to swallow fact that you often see, 4 lookouts with drags and 6 people robbing a 24/7 with AK-47's micro SMG's with silencers, exmags, while outside they have 4 supercars.   So, they use a total of $20.000.000 equipment [cars/guns/ammo/attachments] to make 12k

I personally have never seen anyone robbing a 24/7 like this, that sounds like a bank set up 100%

The point is that in real life, if someone is robbing a 24/7 such as 7-11, Wawa, Exxon and other gas station convenience stores - The cops wont get called right away after the hands are put down and the cameras realistically would probably be checked after 1-2 hours of the situation fastest. 

Now, that is for 24/7's - If you want to argue and say IRL cops do watch all the cameras to these stores, alright you can have that one - But think about Clothing & Gun stores. There is def. not enough police officers around the world to constantly be watching all Clothing, Gun and 24/7 cameras for robberies. It's very unrealistic.

Now I am not suggesting that we should abolish the CCTV fully, but I believe that the LSPD and SD should have a timer on how soon they can check the cameras as well as they should only be called to the Robbery 1-3 Minutes after the hands are put down for the first time and "the button is hit".

The way the LSPD is set up here is very overpowered, they have enough artiliary in their cruiser Trunk to take down a fighter jet, Realistically the most they would carry is a M4A1 in the trunk (or strapped across their chest for certain cases) but they wouldn't have anything else but a Pistol, taser, pepper spray and a baton on their actual person.

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