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Copperhorse

Remove Faction Management or severely reduce its role.

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I've been playing on this server since March of 2019 primarily as a criminal. I've been in many different criminal organizations some just starting up and others already well established. Starting back with the old Irish group, which was the first gang I ever joined. The amount of RP we had with different gangs in terms of negotiations, solving problems that arose between gangs either diplomatically or through force, or making connections with others for weaponry or manpower was absolutely astonishing and fun. That was the most fun I've had in this server ever since, and that was 18 months ago. There was little to no intervention of staff on IC conflicts or IC decisions that factions would make for themselves. When a faction had to make an important decision it was entirely based on what knowledge they had ICly and how it would impact their faction going forward ICly.

Around 6 months ago, I joined Los Zetas. What I immediately noticed was that a lot of the decisions that were being made were not due to IC factors, but because of the high command members being told what they could and couldn't do OOCly by Faction Management. Faction Management uses the guise that what they are doing is improving the quality of the roleplay on the server by setting certain standards or guidelines that all factions should follow should they want to be seen as an Official Faction. What I can tell you from my experience and from what the majority of other people have told me is that Faction Management has severely hindered roleplay in criminal organizations and a lot of the fun we were used to getting from logging into Eclipse.

Starting off with Official Wars, which were created when Zetas, Triads, and Aztecas were fighting WCA and Dojin-Kai 3-4 months ago. I truly believe that Faction Management had good intentions when they created this system. However, this is the start of where Faction Management had overstepped their boundaries and turned from a group that would speak with Factions and recommend changes to improve roleplay into a group that would decide the outcomes of major current and future IC roleplay scenarios through OOC means. When we would "war kill" somebody, we had to go through an extensive review of each and every kill to determine whether it would be viewed as a "valid" war kill in Faction Managements eyes. We would have some roleplay scenarios where we put in extensive roleplay, follow all the guidelines of war killing somebody, and still be denied a war kill. There were some people we "war killed" 3 or 4 times before they were actually killed by Faction Management. On the other side, there were some people killed with LITERALLY no roleplay and were deemed a war kill. The whole system was a sham, had no consistency, and ruined the fun that I once had playing this server. Every situation had an OOC aspect given to it. IC things were no longer strictly IC.

Nowadays when there's a conflict between two factions it doesn't work how it should. No longer do gangs meet up and solve things ICly. EVERY major IC decision goes through Faction Management. There is no more independence when it comes to factions and their high command. The true leaders of the factions are OOC members of Faction Management team who tell the IC high command members what they can and can't do. It's an absolute disgrace and has taken away any actual roleplay from criminal organizations. I believe it was one of the main reasons Los Zetas disbanded, and now it will be the reason I will no longer play Eclipse Roleplay. This division of staff has overstepped their boundaries and have taken away any type of fun in criminal roleplay used to exist and that we're all here to have. Recently, when I ask questions to members of high command of other criminal factions (more than one) about certain roleplay scenarios, more often than not the way they respond to me is using /b saying FM wont allow them to do this that or the other thing. Then they'll make up some IC excuse to respond with which conforms with what Faction Management allows of them to do, even though if they weren't constantly being hammered by Faction Management they would have likely made a different decision based on the IC factors at play.

I genuinely loved playing Eclipse, which is why I have around 3,000+ hours played on the server. Steadily my love for the server has been going down due to a variety of factors, this being one of the major ones. When I started here I wanted to create my own story and make my own decisions with the other people who I involved myself with for hours a day. I didn't sign up to follow a script written by people who have no involvement in the roleplay scenarios that myself and my faction(s) have created. Should something change where Eclipse turns into an environment where I can truly have fun and create my own roleplay I may come back. But until then, have a good one!

Edited by Copperhorse
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I agree 100%. Back when Zetas first formed, FM were strictly there to help push us in the right direction. Bakmeel would sometimes give harsh, but WELL needed advice and we molded ourselves around it. I'm sure we used to give him a major headache, always debating and shit, yet it helped us tremendously. Recent days, it just felt like there was a foot on our necks, that we couldn't react to certain situations out of fear that we would get punished or hounded on because of it. I wouldn't have an issue if FM was a more IC thing, aka This Cartel that's always spoken about, the people who do the special imports. I think that would have been a wonderful addition to FM.

If an organization was fucking up too bad, they would mediate both parties in a fashion that made sense and it would be strictly IC. Considering our connects to guns came from them, it would have made sense to obey the Cartel. FM means well and I'm sure they're doing their best, but in some situations, it gets to the point where it forces us to Mix IC and OOC as players.

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+1 i agree with this as i am down for ic conflict faction management role has been made to help factions grow and make them enjoy the role play but there has been some issues recently i am not going to lie but the only update that i enjoyed it is the war rules which is not perfect yet but it is really enjoyable but other updates that have been pushed recently are really annoying for me as a criminal i would like to recruit more and more pepole to get the control of city with showing a high quality of role play but this is not possible because there are some limitations for numbers also this rule gives advantage to older gangs lets imagine like this that there are 2 official gangs going at war based on rules and they are both at 40 members so this is gonna be 40v40 but its not fair because the older gang had more time to get ready for a moment like this with buying more guns and supplies and the only thing that the newer gang can do against it is to recruit more people to fight which is not possible anymore this is only one side of the issues we are facing in criminal rp and i believe there should be no ooc limitations for criminals 

Edited by Eloah
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You may have to consider why faction management needed to get so involved in the first place. I saw the mention of the Council v. WCA/Dojin conflict, but the issues go quite a bit further than that. 

I'm talking about factions, official factions, being chased out of the server completely by others.
Factions having members whose only participation is logging on when there is a shoot-out.
Large convoys of vehicles chasing after one vehicle through the streets.
Law Enforcement being unnecessarily targeted.
Full scale shootouts that turn parts of the city into a Call of Duty map.
Faction wars being as much about the report section, as what is going on in game.

In my opinion, the reality to me is that faction management has had to step in because the leadership of those factions previously had failed to control their factions in a healthy way for the server. Instead of looking at the bigger picture and promoting some of the more healthy aspects of faction roleplay, it was simply about scoring points.

Faction Management wanted factions to focus more on giving themselves an identity. The Triads for example, have the ceremonial masks, the drags and such. There is a defined identity there but some of these current factions, they might as well be Street Gang #125.. Street Gang #126. Only using a particular RGB color to distinguish themselves as something different. Their means of recruitment, the obviousness of their activities, the quality of RP in their faction, the attitude of their members..

I don't agree with every implementation Faction Management made, but at the same time, if faction leaders had been able to control their factions in the way the server needed, there wouldn't of been any need to step in. It's all fine blaming the regime, but there comes a point where you have to be accountable for your own actions.
 

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I'm talking about factions, official factions, being chased out of the server completely by others.

We had a lot of groups because of the leader's wrong decisions. Caused their destruction . And as far as I can remember, all the wars had a strong RP reason for it

 

Factions having members whose only participation is logging on when there is a shoot-out.

I mean lets talk about zetas they were always in town and they always patrolling labs. and if right now is no action in server and is very boring for criminals is drugs lab are dead you can have active drub lab inside your house watching Netflix .how this can provide RP for criminals when you can stack up more than 10 weed bag and get the other materials in 1 day and you are ok for 3 days cooking inside your house with out leaving . how this is on the crime side with new drug system you don't have reason to check labs any more . 

 

Large convoys of vehicles chasing after one vehicle through the streets.

that makes crime RP acutely alive. they are active not like other gangs they have nothing to do IC just make a forum topic  take some picture from your apartment and add some fake story about your gang they never happened in IC  and post it on forum . and you are ok for next 2 week . how this can call crime RP  .  only 2 official gang are exist in IC is azteca and triads others i never see them ICILY just forum post 

 

Law Enforcement being unnecessarily targeted.

literally literally if you call a PD officer fat (this is all IC not OOC Insult) next day you will get ban for it. no question ask you are banned .  you can't have any interaction with PD officers at all and if you have is result you a OOC punishment . they can chase you for no reason or crime bait or triggered you to do run and then it would be more then 10 PD cruiser chasing you and you can't do any thing just accept the charges and 2 hours of you life be in jail why ?? because the officer he pulled you over is the same guy 2 weeks ago get robbed by you or your gang member on his crime character and now he wanna make you pay and is no way to prove it   . put charge on you (only because you are in the rival gang color ) but you can't hurt them because OOC rules (admins) protects them

 

Full scale shootouts that turn parts of the city into a Call of Duty map.

when they move the drug labs into city . all the gun fight were happens in drug labs now is in city . once again how that's criminals fault .PD officer love it tho .more hunting and stack up charges for criminals is very fun for PD officers (old gangs members )  that's why is in every one favor to join PD after your gang get disbanded 

 

In my opinion, the reality to me is that faction management has had to step in because the leadership of those factions previously had failed to control their factions in a healthy way for the server.

if you are talking about the zetas and their leader . zetas was one of the best gang in server and we don't have even a gang to be close the that level . it wasn't any fail from leadership .when you say failed to control their factions in a healthy way for the server is mean 

i have gang all my gang member should go to jail every day my gang should accept any thing comes from others .we not allowed the defends . every day is would be a buff for law Enforcement and a slap on face for me and my gang members 

after all crime RP is like A piece of ice get melted every day . 

good luck in future

 

 

 

Edited by Qiang
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Kinda agree after hearing lot of conversation about FM thing, it more like controlling RP rather than handling the quality of faction RP.
As per-role, FM made for control the quality and handle the quality of the RP not controlling the RP situation.
Remove faction management is not a good decision, better way is to not let faction management get involved in current IC RP situation between factions.
What i can see if faction management get involved in current RP situation and tryna to handle or controlling it, there's no different between OOC Discussion and IC Discussion then.
either way why not to try make a faction rules for official faction or non-official faction if they have an IC conflict to keep the RP standard between factions. 

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Hello, thank you for your suggestion.

We will not be removing or reducing the role of our Faction Management Team. This is a branch of the staff team which we have had since the beginning of official factions, it serves a purpose of guiding and supervising factions that wishes to pursue official status because official status is not a privilege that we want to grant lightly. Now, as a non-official faction, you make the decision whether you want to pursue for official or not, there are groups that have opted out of this and not had any involvement by faction management or its handlers. 

The Faction Management Team is reactive, not proactive. All the mass shootouts you have each week because of alleged RP reasons (alleged because I am not familiar with them) is done without approval, given that they meet the requirements of our server rules. The Faction Management Team only reacts to events if they do not fit the RP standards that we want our official factions to have (if you have handlers, you are pursuing official status), and/or if events do not meet our server rules, and/or if events do not meet the lore of your faction (the lore is something that we've wanted Faction Management to review more strictly as of recently). 

When it comes to wars or mass shootouts in general, the reason why we sometimes involve ourselves in them is because it's frequent, it's massive and it's sometimes disruptive (aside from the points raised above this paragraph). This is not a free roam DM server, we don't want players to spawn out of the hospital and head straight back into the gunfight the same day (figuratively speaking) for the same reason or a very light reason, you might think it's entirely IC, however, compared to the consequences that is currently available IC does not always meet the actions that happens, which is something that could be amended in the future should the desire for it exist (e.g. life prison sentences, IC assets removal etc.). 

I hope that answers your concerns. Keep in mind that we do not force groups to have faction management involvement, if you want to pursue official you choose to have faction management supervising and guiding you. 

- Osborn.

 

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